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"Heir" Khanid selects Sani Sabik champion

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Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2454	Posted - 2015.10.16 21:25:14 - [1] - Quote Not two months since having been given the great gift of forgiveness and the opportunity to ascend to the Imperial Throne and "His Royal Highness" already paints it in sin. http://i.imgur.com/dywTCS5.png https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6059806#post6059806 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6103754#post6103754 Khanid gave up his claim to the throne when he rebelled against God's Holy Empire. Now he calls blood raiders his champions. Are we to replace the Red Chamberlain with a Red Emperor? And they stood before Him, bathed in His light. Yet their eyes were blind, Their hearts rebellious, And their minds refused the Lord. Darkness descended upon them, Spreading inside their minds, And the flames of the Lord died within them. - Gheinok the First 1:13 Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 260	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:17:40 - [2] - Quote I voted for Nauplius.
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 319	Posted - 2015.10.16 22:22:51 - [3] - Quote What Ardishapur, that Khanid. No you faith. One coward, tail between his legs had once fled. The second came up with "false belief" into the fleshin order to spite the Jamyl. Are blind these children. Deluded children. How do I feel sorry for you. Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE" Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110 CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum. "All these wayward children." You'll have to stand me before February. =)
Lord Kailethre Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 277	Posted - 2015.10.17 06:54:32 - [4] - Quote Have faith Lieutenant, God will see the true heir upon the throne and not this pretender.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1432	Posted - 2015.10.17 07:03:32 - [5] - Quote Lord Kailethre wrote: Have faith Lieutenant, God will see the true heir upon the throne and not this pretender. Well, technically, putting him on the throne could be the best way to put the Empire through... many hardships.. You know what they say in the Scriptures.
Alizebeth Amalath Order of Jamyl 320	Posted - 2015.10.17 09:05:37 - [6] - Quote Political differences are one thing, even outright sedition. Sanist heresies are completely different and much worse.
Xindi Kraid Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 1054	Posted - 2015.10.17 19:48:28 - [7] - Quote I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms. Now you continue to call someone who was legally chosen by your own body of government to have the chance to succeed Jamyl a heretic and question his choices? Maybe I don't understand your religion, but right now it seems to me that you expect God's plan to be by popular opinion. Maybe YOU don't understand your religion, claiming to somehow have insight into the mind of an unfathomable being. Perhaps you are wrong, and there is some purpose behind the choice of a "heretic" whether it be redemption or additional punishment. Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions. I'm not an expert on your government, but I was under the impression that criticizing the Theology council and heirs was not something you should do. There's some reason for what they do, and, by your own admission the victor of the championship is willed by god, so how can the choices of champion not be?
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 322	Posted - 2015.10.17 19:54:20 - [8] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms. Now you continue to call someone who was legally chosen by your own body of government to have the chance to succeed Jamyl a heretic and question his choices? Maybe I don't understand your religion, but right now it seems to me that you expect God's plan to be by popular opinion. Maybe YOU don't understand your religion, claiming to somehow have insight into the mind of an unfathomable being. Perhaps you are wrong, and there is some purpose behind the choice of a "heretic" whether it be redemption or additional punishment. Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions. It doesn't make any sense because it's a fairy tale. She was Empress capsuleer, a symbol of a new era. Empyrean Age. For this I am her and respected. She was one of us. Blood Reidars is not in vain believe capsuleer the blood the very pure and sacred. Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE" Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110 Empress capsuleer. CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum. "All these wayward children."
Goldfinch Order of Jamyl 465	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:15:50 - [9] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms. Jamyl was resurrected. We suggest you keep your baseless off-topic theorycrafting to the sovereign of your own nation. Unless you think you can teach us, the Amarr, something about God and His plan? \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on R109)
Xindi Kraid Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 1054	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:25:20 - [10] - Quote Everyone in this thread has been resurrected. You cannot dispute these facts: Jamyl Sarum was a capsuleer. She died in her pod She later returned seemingly no worse for the wear. There's a logical explanation for that, but you people would COMPLETELY ignore it because it doesn't fit your worldview rather than accepting maybe your worldview is what was flawed rather than the facts. Why is Jamyl not being a clone mandatory for her ascension to be in God's plan? God can't make exceptions? Or maybe the Sacred Flesh doctrine itself was in error. Maybe you are similarly in error for questioning a single choice by a single heir when it's obvious that faith didn't weigh much if at all into the selection process.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1433	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:31:37 - [11] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms. Now you continue to call someone who was legally chosen by your own body of government to have the chance to succeed Jamyl a heretic and question his choices? Maybe I don't understand your religion, but right now it seems to me that you expect God's plan to be by popular opinion. Maybe YOU don't understand your religion, claiming to somehow have insight into the mind of an unfathomable being. Perhaps you are wrong, and there is some purpose behind the choice of a "heretic" whether it be redemption or additional punishment. Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions. Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale. I'm not an expert on your government, but I was under the impression that criticizing the Theology council and heirs was not something you should do. There's some reason for what they do, and, by your own admission the victor of the championship is willed by god, so how can the choices of champion not be? As far as I know the TC only stated that her return was a miracle. Some choose to envision resurrection, others choose to take it for what Occam's Razor suggests it is.
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 323	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:38:43 - [12] - Quote I heard of blind faith? Here is to treat the supporters of Ardishapur. They honestly believe that his faith in the "Godflesh" true faith, and that the throne of can not be capsuleer. Quote: For a brief second, I consider crying out, "Kill me!" to them. Such a command would not be refused by any of them, I should think. Would Yonis strangle me with his own hands or would he refuse to dirty his pure flesh by bringing it into contact with mine? Aritcio, the whispers say, had dirtied his hands a hundred times over now... They are all far from being saints. The banal jealousy behind her successes. Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE" Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110 Empress capsuleer. CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum. "All these wayward children."
Lunarisse Aspenstar Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 558	Posted - 2015.10.17 20:48:19 - [13] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: Everyone in this thread has been resurrected. You cannot dispute these facts: Jamyl Sarum was a capsuleer. She died in her pod She later returned seemingly no worse for the wear. There's a logical explanation for that, but you people would COMPLETELY ignore it because it doesn't fit your worldview rather than accepting maybe your worldview is what was flawed rather than the facts. Why is Jamyl not being a clone mandatory for her ascension to be in God's plan? God can't make exceptions? Or maybe the Sacred Flesh doctrine itself was in error. Maybe you are similarly in error for questioning a single choice by a single heir when it's obvious that faith didn't weigh much if at all into the selection process. And why is a loyalist Caldari corp member, an ostensible Ally picking a fight with the Faithful Amarr from, as far as I can tell, completely out of the blue when the subject of the thread is King Khanid's selection of a known Blood Raider as a champion? Respectfully, Miss Priano, you need to cut back on the coffee in IKANE's break room.
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 325	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:04:13 - [14] - Quote Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote: And why is a loyalist Caldari corp member, an ostensible Ally picking a fight with the Faithful Amarr from, as far as I can tell, completely out of the blue when the subject of the thread is King Khanid's selection of a known Blood Raider as a champion? Respectfully, Miss Priano, you need to cut back on the coffee in IKANE's break room. She spoke the truth. Quote: Garkeh Khanid, however, is a bag of vipers dressed as a man. Here the snake got out out of the bag. Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE" Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110 Empress capsuleer. CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum. "All these wayward children."
Utari Onzo Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 706	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:11:01 - [15] - Quote Mr Kraid, a little education for you. God does not direct and put His hand into every little thing that goes on in the Universe. He is not a micromanaging supervisor at the Helm of the Universe. He is more like a caretaker, He has created the foundations of the Universe, and desires us to follow His plan. He created free will to allow us to explore, and discover, all of the wonders of His creation through science, philosophy and faith. As part of the price of creating free will, there is indeed a chance for Man to fail in His plan, and in the case of Champion selection this act might very well cost His Royal Highness in the long run if the accusations are true, both in the material sense and in the spiritual. It is on each Heir and their Champion to earn God's grace and favour. They must demonstrate their fervour, their faith and skill before Him. God is both generous, and stern, He does not give of gifts freely, so only the most worthy Champion and Heir will in the end be granted the blessing of God. This is called a Trial after all, we're not weak limbed children begging to God for mercy and guidance, but instead demonstrating strength and allowing Him to pick of the best. In regards to Jamyl's return, this was one of those times that God himself felt compelled to act. With corruption in the very heart of the Empire, and the arrival of the Elder Fleet, God decided to bestow upon His faithful a gift in the form of our Empress' return. You don't believe and feel our faith, but we very much do, so your comments about absolutes and facts are irrelevant when you don't take that into account. Belief in miracles and divine wrath is fact in our eyes when the signs are there. Finally, in regards to your 'choice' comments, I have to agree with Mrs Daphiti that it seems some Caldari pilots can be overly eager to chip in their point of view on our Empire. Faith plays a huge and crucial role in the Governing of the Amarr (this being that all peoples of the Empire are Amarr by term, the difference being True Amarr are True by blood and history and only they have the True title.) You might not like this, get this, understand this, but your arguments will hold absolutely no sway with us if you don't address this simple fact. Faith is the centre of everything we do. While I understand this forum is public and open to all to reply, sometimes I feel it would be in the best interest of Caldari allies to not keep mocking us so publically and on topics damn well important to us when it comes to our late Empress and the means by which we'll be provided a new ruler. I get everyone wants to chip in about the issue on slavery, but this particular topic is to do with our Government. Would you kindly show some respect, fair allies? "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Xindi Kraid Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 1055	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:15:00 - [16] - Quote So, because we're allies I should toe the Amarr line? I am an ally of the Amarr people, I am not, however and Amarr; my compliance with your edicts is not necessary, just as your compliance with Caldari edicts is not necessary. I wasn't picking a fight, I am trying to understand what the problem is, and why there is so much flip flop between heretic and God willed it all the time. I also struggle to understand how everything could possibly be God's will, if you keep finding exceptions. Many of the champions are also "allies" rather than faithful, and yet because of a single pick, you are now second guessing the vetting process for picking someone who met all of the requirements. I also noticed the quotes around the word 'heir' in the title which indicates that you don't accept the rulings of your own government, and I was under the impression that, to the Amarr, sedition and heresy were more or less the same thing since questioning the government is to also question god. Have I missed something somewhere?
Lunarisse Aspenstar Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 559	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:20:33 - [17] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: I don't get it. Jamyl allows herself to be cloned which is not allowed for Amarr Royals and becomes Empress without the normal process, and ALL of you claim it's part of God's plan, welcoming her with open arms. Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions. Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale. It's more because you came out of "left field" as the saying goes to immediately and directly attack manifold aspects of the Faith, close to the hearts of the Faithful, without provocation or necessity. Because I value the Society's elationship with IKANE I shall hush for now and refer you to Utari Onzo's capable response. I also urge Ms. Priano to finish her posting guidelines for IKANE before yet another diplomatic incident unfolds.
Utari Onzo Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 708	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:25:56 - [18] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: So, because we're allies I should toe the Amarr line? I am an ally of the Amarr people, I am not, however and Amarr; my compliance with your edicts is not necessary, just as your compliance with Caldari edicts is not necessary. I wasn't picking a fight, I am trying to understand what the problem is, and why there is so much flip flop between heretic and God willed it all the time. I also struggle to understand how everything could possibly be God's will, if you keep finding exceptions. Many of the champions are also "allies" rather than faithful, and yet because of a single pick, you are now second guessing the vetting process for picking someone who met all of the requirements. I also noticed the quotes around the word 'heir' in the title which indicates that you don't accept the rulings of your own government, and I was under the impression that, to the Amarr, sedition and heresy were more or less the same thing since questioning the government is to also question god. Have I missed something somewhere? Mr Kraid, for someone seeking understanding, you certainatly came in with an aggressive matter of fact statement on what the 'fact' of the situation was, rather then trying to be reasonable in engaging in debate. You presented what you felt was the 'correct' stance, and challenged us for having faith. That's not trying to understand, that's mockery. In regards to the denouncement of the Heir and potential Champion, I am not taking a stance on it myself, so I will leave it to others to do so until a formal judgement on the matter is made, if one really is. I was presenting what the consequence could be if it's true, so I hope that much atleast will satisfy until someone else can explain further. Finally, I already outlined God does not will absolutely everything. It's the price of free will, the thing that raises Humanity above beasts. If He truly willed absolutely everything, the Universe would be perfect, but we would never learn. We must be allowed to make mistakes, and be punished for them, so that we learn much as a child does. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 532	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:26:54 - [19] - Quote I am pleased with this news.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 7707	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:30:25 - [20] - Quote With due respect, Mr. Kraid, let's withdraw a bit on this subject. While on one hand they should not expect us to agree with their worldview or understand it wholly, and should not be too dismayed when we approach matters with a mind to inquiry, we should similarly not attempt to foist our world view on them. Imagine, if you will, if a member of the Intaki Liberation Front pointedly inquired about and seemed dismissive of an aspect of Caldari culture; would you not be frustrated as well? That on some matters (such as the Empress Jamyl's return) this may be a bit mind-boggling, well... we just have to accept that. In this instance, though, I will say this: I do find Lieutenant Kernher's reaction understandable in one part, and curious in another. On one hand, an imperial heir selecting an overt Blood Raider who has engaged in ritual sacrifice is something that warrants inquiry; on the other hand, her seeming refusal to accept the Theology Council's decision that King Khanid II is indeed an imperial heir seems curious. However, I'm an outsider, so in this matter I'll abstain from further comment. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2094	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:34:48 - [21] - Quote Well, Blood Raiders are somewhat... scary persons. Maybe it was a PR move to inflict fear to contestants? In the mood of "Yarr! After I defeat you, I'll drink blood from your liver!" Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Utari Onzo Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 713	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:35:46 - [22] - Quote Thank you Ms Priano for your timely post. I hope we can have productive debates on matters like these in the future with civility and a mutual understanding, taking in to account that we might not ultimately agree but must respect each other's position. That was the point on respect that I was implying in my previous posting. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Goldfinch Order of Jamyl 470	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:37:40 - [23] - Quote Xindi Kraid wrote: Maybe I don't understand your religion ... Or, more likely you need to outgrow such silly superstitions. Perhaps it doesn't make any sense because it's a fairly tale. ... I'm not an expert on your government Quote: you people would COMPLETELY ignore it because it doesn't fit your worldview rather than accepting maybe your worldview is what was flawed rather than the facts Quote: I also struggle to understand how everything could possibly be God's will, if you keep finding exceptions. The only thing that is clear to us at this very moment is that you need to stop. Have you ever heard the call to prayer? Have you ever kneeled in surrender to God? Do you know our Scriptures? Our edicts? Do you have Faith? Have you toiled and bled for Amarr? Would you die for God, die for Empire, die to defend your Faith? What you know of our culture and our creed is not sufficient. We will not engage in a theological discussion with a person who has nothing vested in our religion. We Amarr have plenty of disagreements and we argue and debate with each other at every opportunity as a way to understand and strengthen our Faith and our communion with God. But we do not share a connection with you. By your own admission you do not understand our religion and our ways. For the love of IKAME, if nothing else, please desist from your insulting rhetoric. We will not suffer through this parody of a discussion about the Amarr Faith and of the Empress. You are being disrespectful in the way you are choosing to assert your beliefs. You will not find a single insulting word we personally have cast against the Caldari or the State. We expect you to reciprocate in kind, because we think that on the inside you are a better person than you've made yourself out to be in this discussion. Are we mistaken about you? \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on R109)
Evi Polevhia Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1198	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:46:57 - [24] - Quote Appeal to emotion harder. Maybe if you try again but are super serious this time for reals it might work on someone.
Lunarisse Aspenstar Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 559	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:47:33 - [25] - Quote Utari Onzo wrote: Thank you Ms Priano for your timely post. I hope we can have productive debates on matters like these in the future with civility and a mutual understanding, taking in to account that we might not ultimately agree but must respect each other's position. That was the point on respect that I was implying in my previous posting. Yes. This.
Ascentior PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 214	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:54:16 - [26] - Quote Perhaps since Mr Kraid has been politely asked to stop, and seemingly has, it would be only fair that we cease the rebuttals. To the topic at hand, I sincerely hope that the upcoming trials show the power of faith. May it be God's will. Admiral of PIE Inc., Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris (See 'PIE Public' for recruitment) Honorary Fabricator-General of the Imperial Navy Chosen by God to serve the Empire.
Alizebeth Amalath Order of Jamyl 325	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:56:29 - [27] - Quote Between Mr. Onzo and Lady Rkard, I think everything that needs to be said has been. I would advise my flock to follow the example of Her Majesty in cases like these: When Mex the Heretic attacked Her Majesty in public and in the forums of New Eden, she ignored him, because he was insignificant. Max could no more harm or impinge the Empress than a single fly could bring down the golden towers of Dam-Torsad. A single Caldari or anyone else, for that matter, making such foolish and uneducated statements on the IGS is even less of a concern than Max is. Yes, they are our allies, for now, and we should expect some level of decency from the State, however, worry yourself not with the insignificant mewling of a single pilot. It's clear that no mere words will cause Mr. Kraid to change his mind. So, I will leave the faithful with the old adage that one should never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Xindi Kraid Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 1056	Posted - 2015.10.17 21:56:45 - [28] - Quote I had a quoted out post, but it was lost to a communications error. I would like to thank Onzo for actually bearing with me and explaining things. I think maybe I understand a bit more even if I still remain largely ignorant, and I appreciate him taking the time to explain where everyone else has just said I have no faith and I don't understand without bothering to educate me so that I might actually gain those things. The God's will/plan/etc. makes a bit more sense now, and how it relates to things, though as an ignorant outside. I still must ask, though, don't you think, if this really was a bad choice, that Khanid will get exactly what he deserves? Also, I wasn't trying to question your faith. In fact, I think faith is important, whether or not it is attached to a religion or the divine, since faith is little different than trust and we can't have a functioning society without that. What I take massive issue with is when people alter facts to support beliefs, when, as a scientist, the first duty is to let fact inform beliefs, and be prepared to let go of what you think is true in light of new data. I will exit the discussion and apologize for a poor choice of words, but I won't apologize for sticking my nose in your business and asking about recent events in your politics. As is the way of the Summit, not so long ago you were discussing the politics of other nations even occasionally interjecting with regards to the turmoil the State endured in recent history.
Utari Onzo Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 714	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:05:04 - [29] - Quote Thank you Mr Kraid. I hope we can both move on from this small spat on a simple forum, and as I posted earlier engage in more constructive debate in the future to each side's satisfaction. While I have no doubts attempting to convert you would be quite the methaphorical mountain to climb, I hope that you won't be afraid to ask me in the future if you would like any other clarification and understanding on the way we see things and operate. I would naturally reciprocate on advice regarding the State, but as a former resident I think my bias and understanding there has already firmly been ingrained. Perhaps a chat over tea about Drifters some time? "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Vollhov Senators of Eridan Red Alliance 325	Posted - 2015.10.17 22:09:23 - [30] - Quote "Facts - the chain of consciousness and truth mist. Human of faith see through the facts, and the world is changing its image" Sometime I too believed in ... Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE" Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110 Empress capsuleer. CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum. "All these wayward children."

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