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Covert Ops/ Stealth Bombers?

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Oshara Vulwrathian	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Oshara Vulwrathian on 28/12/2006 00:22:14 I really think i want to do Stealth Bomber. I was wondering which one yall thought was best and why? And what do you fit it out with? Thanks SS
Glassback M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:33:00 - [2] The Caldari one, but they all suck. G. I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about.
Ikarushka A.O.U. Corp	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:37:00 - [3] Originally by: Oshara Vulwrathian Edited by: Oshara Vulwrathian on 28/12/2006 00:22:14 I really think i want to do Stealth Bomber. I was wondering which one yall thought was best and why? And what do you fit it out with? Thanks SS It has been promised that they will get fixed, somehow, soon(tm)
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:52:00 - [4] they are all HORRIBLE. the caldari one is the best though. I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Falcione Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:53:00 - [5] I wouldn't mind giving them a boost, but what exactly is wrong with them atm? As long as you have good skills, they are pretty decent I think. Granted, I have taken out 2 in my t1 rifter... but I chalk that up to the other pilot's error.
Ilmonstre Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Falcione I wouldn't mind giving them a boost, but what exactly is wrong with them atm? As long as you have good skills, they are pretty decent I think. Granted, I have taken out 2 in my t1 rifter... but I chalk that up to the other pilot's error. the problem is the damage over time and if a ship is faster then say 3km/s the missiles do almost no damage at all. and then add in the absolute no hp's it has and no way to give it somewhat of a tank you have the stealth bomber. i would like to see a simple chance wich wouldnt make the normal covert obsolete. give it the ability to warp with cloak but remove the option to fit a probe launcher. thatw ay you can really sneak up on a tarhet with a small wolfpack and actually take someone out.
flaming phantom	Posted - 2006.12.28 00:59:00 - [7] y does every1 say they suck so bad? i odnt see why, you shoot cruise missiles, and since u have 3 thats half the power of a raven right there, then when things get dicey u cloak. the only thing i see that would make manticores awesome is if the got the same cloaking bnous the other covert ops got so they could use that really good cloaker
Falcione Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2006.12.28 01:01:00 - [8] I never really envisioned the bomber as a solo craft, so I never really though about the DoT. I always see the bomber as support removal. You know, to quickly clear away those annoying small ships that interfere with your BS fleet.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.28 01:16:00 - [9] Manticores suck slightly less than the other race stealth bombers. But ... basically don't bother. No, really... About all they're really able to do it pop frigates. Assuming the frigate in question isn't a) running a MWD, or b) already in warp. It takes a moderately expensive ship to do it, with ... well improved cloaks are very expensive, and fitting anything less than top named/faction gear is also really very hard. So you end up with a 80mil kestrel, which can lob cruises at 140km. Oh, and is better at improved cloaks 300m/sec cloaked, and no recalibration is fairly cool, just .... well not very useful. Which can be useful, I agree. But it's such a marginal role, that every time I've gone out in a stealth bomber, I've found myself wishing I was in a different ship. You want a long range cruise missile launcher, get a raven. If you want a frigate with a 'reasonable' DPS, buy an AF (or a kestrel, they do about the same). You want a ship that can cloak and be cool... well, all of 'em, but force recon and covert ops are the real kings - stealths can't warp cloaked, and anyone who hangs around as you maneuver deserves to die. Basically, their 'schtick' is to be a very long range frigate. Sadly, at very long range, being a frigate doesn't help - that sniper still blows you away.
Ilmonstre Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.28 02:04:00 - [10] Edited by: Ilmonstre on 28/12/2006 02:06:48 Originally by: Falcione I never really envisioned the bomber as a solo craft, so I never really though about the DoT. I always see the bomber as support removal. You know, to quickly clear away those annoying small ships that interfere with your BS fleet. the ships dont die from 1 volley and before the 2nd volley they are on you to kill you or youn have to cloak/warp out before you can actually kill it edit: i thought of 1 thing it could be used for is a cloaked ew frig when using a proto cloak and thats basicly it.
El Sayal Caldari Chaos and Order	Posted - 2006.12.28 02:08:00 - [11] the manticore (caldari one) best missile slots, etc. although you only want to take it up against t1 frigs, 1 salvo pop satisfaction, trouble is it has armour like paper and wont last more than about 2 salvos from a t1 frig itself! Death is certain, Life isn't.
Maria Ravenwind Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.28 03:23:00 - [12] Originally by: James Lyrus But it's such a marginal role, that every time I've gone out in a stealth bomber, I've found myself wishing I was in a different ship. Thats exactly it. The Manticore is a paper ship. Even when used in fleet to remove support, once the snipers on the other side see a Manti on the field they lock it, because they know it'll only take one or two hits from a few ships and its gone. Before you even have a chance to warp out, a sniper can kill you. Its a great idea, but it needs improvement. I agree with the ability to warp cloaked. Even if it still had the same HP it could do some damage in experienced groups.
Marcathonas The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.28 03:29:00 - [13] Originally by: flaming phantom y does every1 say they suck so bad? i odnt see why, you shoot cruise missiles, and since u have 3 thats half the power of a raven right there, then when things get dicey u cloak. the only thing i see that would make manticores awesome is if the got the same cloaking bnous the other covert ops got so they could use that really good cloaker You cant cloak once anyone has locked you. The second they've locked you, you're going to die. 3 cruise aren't good enough to kill a rifter before he kills you. Using a MWD suffers no penalty, since the hidden bonus of the bomber means the sig is so low. I've seen some used VERY effectively, but that's due to intuitive fitting that frankly could have been done just as well in other frigates, just the bomber has more DPS. They're good in wolfpacks, and work as nice support. But what they bring to the table alone is instapop, and if that's what I'm going for I'd rather use a thrasher.
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO	Posted - 2006.12.28 03:33:00 - [14] Originally by: flaming phantom y does every1 say they suck so bad? i odnt see why, you shoot cruise missiles, and since u have 3 thats half the power of a raven right there, then when things get dicey u cloak. The problem is, things get dicey way too fast. You launch one volley and if they target you warping out is your only option. Sure, you can run dampeners in the mids but who's to say you can dampen 3 or 4 guys... ~~~~~~~~~ Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it.
TheMantisCH Minmatar Trinity Nova	Posted - 2006.12.28 14:45:00 - [15] Hound and Manticore are the best 2 stealth bombers, the Hound can actually out damage the manticore but requires you to go in much closer to be effective hence more risk. Stealth Bombers could do with a boost but they are by no means unusable, a small gang of them (3 or 4) can be very effective and they are more than capable of popping haulers, T1 frigs and interceptors solo if you prepare properly. Its very easy to stay safe in them aswell since cruise missiles have such a long range. - Mantis
Cordelia Simonova Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:13:00 - [16] Edited by: Cordelia Simonova on 28/12/2006 15:13:00 Excellent ship for scouting/ pirating /High sec wars. 95% of my kills have been with a Manticore. Fit it properly, learn what it can/cannot do and pick your targets. It needs some Dev love after the recent Hull increases but the fact remains that you have 3 uber cruise missiles and a cloak.
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:22:00 - [17] They suck bigtime, you're better off in any ceptor tbh "Hey look, there's a stealth bomber"
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:28:00 - [18] It needs to be able to use the covert ops cloak. It's in the "Covert Ops" ship category ffs.
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:33:00 - [19] Originally by: Beef Hardslab It needs to be able to use the covert ops cloak. It's in the "Covert Ops" ship category ffs. NONONO! That will drive up the prices even further up on t2 covert cloaks. Maybe an inate ability to warp while cloaked using any cloak will do just fine.
Ilmonstre Minmatar Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:43:00 - [20] i dont care elc since i will win a bpo or something but it would still be a improvement over how it is now.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2006.12.28 15:53:00 - [21] get a hound and hunt industrials in lowsec. only application which is fairly effective for bombers imo. but still u can do it in a much cheaper ship... stealth bombers are a fun concept but they are by far not worth the slightest hassle. Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
kill0rbunny Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency	Posted - 2006.12.28 16:02:00 - [22] Oveur stated on Eve Tv, they would probably give the bombers one extra launcher each. If that happens, they could be great fun. I'm thinking of a gang of maybe three manticores and two inties, destroying bcs, cruisers, etc. EVE-+NLINE Supporter of T+TALHELLDEATH
PathetiQ Gallente The Rat Pack	Posted - 2006.12.28 17:37:00 - [23] dont listen to people saying that they suck, they are just totally wrong and dont know anything about Steatlh Bomber!!! Its not meant to be soloing in pvp, except for frig and shuttle. \|(insta pop ftw) Its a recon and support ship. meant to be cloak stealth and hit hard to support a tackler or a gang. the "best" can be the manticore cause he got 3 launcher instead of 2... ive got the nemesis and its perfect the hound too. For the fitting: the more cruise launcher you can cloak and maybe 1 nos to use on a quick tackler that can come near you. you are a long range so you need sensorbooster and everything related to this. you dont have to fight or to be shoot at in long range + targeting suppresor (no aotomatic lock to your ennemie) so sensor dampener are great cloak, wait for target, lock with the suppressor, fire 1 to 4 round , cloak or warp out! Bomber are pretty nasty and cool ;)
Aethas	Posted - 2006.12.31 11:59:00 - [24] I would like to see the Stealth bombers with and extra launcherslot and being able to fit Torpedoes. Imagine .... 2 fleets blasting away ..... 1 enemy BS gets targetpainted a squad of 6 stealthbombers uncloak and launche their deadly cargo .. Would be even more fun if Stealthbombers could fire at a targetpainted target still being cloackeed but hey .....thats dreaming ^^
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.31 12:44:00 - [25] I agree, a wolfpack of 4 steathbombers is marginally effected. Then again, so's a wolfpack of ... pretty much anything else actually. 4 ravens? Same range, way more DPS and tank. 4 harpies - more surivability, similar DPS, more tank. 4 caracals? More DPS, similar range, more tank. 4 crows? And let's not forget, that once you add the price of the cloak, and the pretty much mandatory 'high grade' fittings, the others are _all_ cheaper (well, a T2 fitted raven isn't, but a T1 would do) Don't forget, now that probes can pick up cloaked ships, their 'lurk' tactics are also flawed. I have tried to use a manticore, really I have. You can lob missiles at 140, which is handy, but much like a cruise raven, you'll never hit anything at that range without support. If you have support, then ... well ok, but a sniper BS generally does a better job of being a sniper. At cloakrange, the decloak and fire is nice, but ... anything you don't instapop will tear you apart. (and you can't instapop very much, even with good skills). No, that's not entirely true. If someone tries to engage you with an AB frigate, you might kill them first. But .... welll frankly so will pretty much anything else. If they had a missile explosion velocity bonus, they'd be usable - you'd be able to decloak at range, and frigates would have a choice of warp or die. Or at close range, and gamble on the second volley killing them before they kill you. But as is, engaging anything other than trivially easy targets in a manticore is nearly suicide.
Kerin Blackhand Valehaven Ltd	Posted - 2006.12.31 14:03:00 - [26] Originally by: James Lyrus Don't forget, now that probes can pick up cloaked ships, their 'lurk' tactics are also flawed. Hasn't this been proven false, that cloaked ships still can't be picked up by probes? -------- Originally by: Brer Lapin Hi I'm Scissors, Paper's fine but rock needs a nerf.
G3N7	Posted - 2006.12.31 21:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Kerin Blackhand Originally by: James Lyrus Don't forget, now that probes can pick up cloaked ships, their 'lurk' tactics are also flawed. Hasn't this been proven false, that cloaked ships still can't be picked up by probes? Yes I believe this was a bug that they hot fixed after the patch.

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