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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3891
   |
Posted - 2015.10.19 01:04:38 -
[1] - Quote
Wow.
So, we all have seen the glorious proud to be carebear posts of Estavan here. His mouthy nature earned him a wardec from myself (he claimed they would roll corp, but as of the time the dec went live, its still up and running). He promptly blocks anyone who questions his madness.
Why the thread? Well, look for yourself @ http://worldtradersguild.com/
He decided to write about a half page of inane ravings regarding his opinon of how wardecs are only for "criminals". Let me draw your attention to a particular favorite of mine:
Quote:
....Wardec system is like a payment you make in a hospital to take babies from the incubators and throw them at the sewer...
This dude has some seriously misguided opinions on the way the game works, or in fact that it is a game in the first place...
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
3421
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 01:16:58 -
[2] - Quote
I can pay a hospital for what now? |
Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
12
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Posted - 2015.10.19 01:22:30 -
[3] - Quote
That honestly sounds like one of the most bad ass ways to describe the profession.
10/10
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King of Stating the Obvious 2015
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Elected by: Random forum alt
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Spruillo
Spruillo Corp
39
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 01:25:17 -
[4] - Quote
THIS WILL B DEALT WITH.
PLAYIN SPACE TRUCKS VROOM VROOM
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
705
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 05:15:34 -
[5] - Quote
Given the competency level of most highsec dwellers the wardec system is, in practice, a baby seal clubbing license with no bag limit.
But sure, have at it. If he's stupid enough to undock after all this he deserves his fate. Do give us an update if actual shooting occurs. Personally I'd show up outside his station in a battle procurer and challenge him to honorable single combat. Or maybe a nereus...you get the idea. |
Paranoid Loyd
7230
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Posted - 2015.10.19 13:28:47 -
[6] - Quote
Long live the inquisition!
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25441
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Posted - 2015.10.19 14:14:59 -
[7] - Quote
Quote:....Wardec system is like a payment you make in a hospital to take babies from the incubators and throw them at the sewer...
Wat?Gäó
WatGäó is brought to you courtesy of Jim Era.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3901
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 14:44:36 -
[8] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Given the competency level of most highsec dwellers the wardec system is, in practice, a baby seal clubbing license with no bag limit.
But sure, have at it. If he's stupid enough to undock after all this he deserves his fate. Do give us an update if actual shooting occurs. Personally I'd show up outside his station in a battle procurer and challenge him to honorable single combat. Or maybe a nereus...you get the idea.
I will. I doubt anything actually happens, it was more for the point.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
3436
|
Posted - 2015.10.19 15:14:51 -
[9] - Quote
Calling them baby seals is misleading because it implies their youth or lack of maturity is the source of their vulnerability when actually it's a self inflicted lack of knowledge or unwillingness to attempt self defense.
A fish in a barrel shooting licence would be more apt. But even then the competence of both the aggressor and the defender are the factors that affect the difficulty of the war for both parties so it's equally a bear poking license.
Ask anyone without significant highsec pvp experience who declared war on my spy alt exactly how their seal clubbing expedition went for them. |
Saeger1737
Bite the pillow
The Pursuit of Happiness
1165
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 02:26:49 -
[10] - Quote
I can smell a wardec |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6886
|
Posted - 2015.10.20 06:53:49 -
[11] - Quote
You do however miss that he's got some pretty good points. Such as:
Quote:As it is today, there is no reason for small Corporations to seek growth, as that growth is the monster that will devour them. Quote:it is a bottle neck of development, granting that people are scattered enough to either remain small, or join an already powerful block.
It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
24
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Posted - 2015.10.25 01:38:16 -
[12] - Quote
Saeger1737 wrote:I can smell a wardec
Try taking a shower
<3
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King of Stating the Obvious 2015
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Elected by: Random forum alt
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
605
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Posted - 2015.10.25 02:14:13 -
[13] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead.
To be fair that's not always the case. For example, we're pretty much just finishing off RvB at the moment, after repeatedly beating them into the ground over the past few weeks while their active members have slowly declined. Considering that they literally beat the tar out of the majority of the 'merc coalition' a year or so ago, they're not exactly a soft target.
These jihads are pretty much all we play EVE for anymore. We honestly aren't really sure what we're going to do now, as we've gone after pretty much every pvp group in HS, done a number of null/low/wh deployments, and are pretty much getting to the end of line. Maybe go after Eve Uni next? |
Aoife Fraoch
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 02:38:37 -
[14] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You do however miss that he's got some pretty good points. Such as: Quote:As it is today, there is no reason for small Corporations to seek growth, as that growth is the monster that will devour them. Quote:it is a bottle neck of development, granting that people are scattered enough to either remain small, or join an already powerful block. It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead.
I do not totally agree but you do make a good point.
I would argue that in a lot of cases the corps that make themselves soft targets are limited by war decs. Though personally I do not think this is a problem to be fixed by removing or restricting war decs. I think this is an issue that is better solved by giving players a path from NPC corp, to small low investment groups and on to higher risk/rewards corporations.
And yes, I probably do mean something like social groups added mechanically to the game to make purple fleets and other groups more accessible and visible. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12540
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 09:20:49 -
[15] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Long live the inquisition!
=]|[=
(I will actually kick this up to the Vikings and see if they want in)
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mike Adoulin
Adolescent Radioactive Pirate Hamsters
1485
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 11:27:43 -
[16] - Quote
Vimsy Vortis wrote:The completely erroneous reputation wars have as being inherently risk-free for the aggressor leads to really fun scenarios like people from lowsec forming highsec pvp corps under the assumption it'll be an awesome slaughter fest with no idea what challenges are involved and instantly getting butt-raped.
Quote:Maybe go after Eve Uni next?
I believe you can't call yourself a l337 hisec pvper until you have decced the following:
Goonswarm
RvB
Chribba
And, of course, the Uni.
Everything in EVE is a trap.
And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)
You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.
Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3965
|
Posted - 2015.10.25 16:21:33 -
[17] - Quote
Mike Adoulin wrote:
I believe you can't call yourself a l337 hisec pvper until you have decced the following:
Goonswarm
I will never fight goonswarm again. Not because they are good, and not because I like them or dont...
Because 4 hour tidi **** fests are not fun. I literally fell asleep at my keyboard, woke up, and was still alive. Along with everything else on grid.
**** that.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Mephiztopheleze
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
252
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 00:00:53 -
[18] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:...He decided to write about a half page of inane ravings.....
The 976 words of utterly inane ravings vomited forth, actually runs to about one and a quarter A4 pages in 12 point type.
Mike Adoulin wrote:
I believe you can't call yourself a l337 hisec pvper until you have decced the following:
Goonswarm
RvB
Sadly, there don't seem to be any hisec wars running against some of the smaller Imperium member alliances. Flew a Viator into Jita the other night and the conspicuous lack of flashy red in local made me sad. Such a pity Gevlon Goblin and the mighty Tora Bushido have fallen out.
I'm sure RvB will gladly welcome any and all war-decs.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7191
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 04:54:11 -
[19] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You do however miss that he's got some pretty good points. Such as: Quote:As it is today, there is no reason for small Corporations to seek growth, as that growth is the monster that will devour them. Quote:it is a bottle neck of development, granting that people are scattered enough to either remain small, or join an already powerful block. It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead.
Looks like it's down to pretty much this.
But many people arrive with "new ideas" that simply get snarked at for a few posts and that's that.
But a whole thread created on it indicates that maybe he's onto something.
As usual, "winning" Eve turns out to be not winning at the game but denying the game to be played. Nothing drives people off more than this. Hopefully the changes in nullsec with save the game and highsec will rot like lowsec, leaving the people who "won" highsec with their ganking and blanket decks nothing but empty space in which to pat themselves on the back.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3968
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 05:48:58 -
[20] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You do however miss that he's got some pretty good points. Such as: Quote:As it is today, there is no reason for small Corporations to seek growth, as that growth is the monster that will devour them. Quote:it is a bottle neck of development, granting that people are scattered enough to either remain small, or join an already powerful block. It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead. Looks like it's down to pretty much this. But many people arrive with "new ideas" that simply get snarked at for a few posts and that's that. But a whole thread created on it indicates that maybe he's onto something. As usual, "winning" Eve turns out to be not winning at the game but denying the game to be played. Nothing drives people off more than this. Hopefully the changes in nullsec with save the game and highsec will rot like lowsec, leaving the people who "won" highsec with their ganking and blanket decks nothing but empty space in which to pat themselves on the back.
Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.)
I have no illusions that most highsec targets are softer than their lower security zone counterparts, and I'm not going to attempt to justify wardec corps as I have never been seriously committed to wardecs. For me, being part of a carebear corp and having it shut down by mercs STARTED my EVE life. It drove me into lowsec, where I learned how to pvp and met some great peeps. It's a shame that I am in the minority there, and most care bears just "wanna be left alone"...
I guess to each their own, but making RL comparisons to how space pirates in EVE are terrible people IRL because of exploding pixels tells me he needs a break and maybe a shrink.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7192
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 07:38:49 -
[21] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You do however miss that he's got some pretty good points. Such as: Quote:As it is today, there is no reason for small Corporations to seek growth, as that growth is the monster that will devour them. Quote:it is a bottle neck of development, granting that people are scattered enough to either remain small, or join an already powerful block. It's the biggest issue I have with wardecs too, they prevent growth, ensuring that newer and lower skilled players (because that's who hangs out in highsec, whether you're a wardeccer or not) have less options for collaboration. And it's simply because wardeccers don't have to choose between targets and don't gain anything by going after tough targets, so they simply pick a plethora of soft targets instead. Looks like it's down to pretty much this. But many people arrive with "new ideas" that simply get snarked at for a few posts and that's that. But a whole thread created on it indicates that maybe he's onto something. As usual, "winning" Eve turns out to be not winning at the game but denying the game to be played. Nothing drives people off more than this. Hopefully the changes in nullsec with save the game and highsec will rot like lowsec, leaving the people who "won" highsec with their ganking and blanket decks nothing but empty space in which to pat themselves on the back. Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.)
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Mag's
the united
20624
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Posted - 2015.10.26 08:43:29 -
[22] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6901
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 08:53:50 -
[23] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:These jihads are pretty much all we play EVE for anymore. We honestly aren't really sure what we're going to do now, as we've gone after pretty much every pvp group in HS, done a number of null/low/wh deployments, and are pretty much getting to the end of line. Maybe go after Eve Uni next? You could try growing a pair and moving out of the protective skirt of concord.
Leto Thule wrote:Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.) I'm sure he got there all on his own too, right? Seems strange that players show up, get attacked and bombarded with attempts to "extract tears", then when it actually works and the target flips out on the forum, you guys act like they are the problem. Grow the **** up.
Leto Thule wrote:I guess to each their own, but making RL comparisons to how space pirates in EVE are terrible people IRL because of exploding pixels tells me he needs a break and maybe a shrink. I've not read all his posts on it, but I've seen others. For the most part people aren't saying that space pirates are terrible people in real life. But that's not what most of you people are. You're not in it to steal the booty or sink the ship, you're in it to wind up the guy behind the keyboard. Many gankers go out of their way to find the best ways to push people buttons specifically to affect the player not the character, and so yes, those types of people are actually terrible people IRL. Stop pretending that it's the miner that pushed it beyond the boundaries of the game. You know better than that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Aoife Fraoch
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
197
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 09:00:32 -
[24] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I don't know about you, but I am actually comfortable with accepting that sometimes people are just horrible, and how they choose to play a spaceship game has nothing to do with it.
Perhaps I am just weird.
Oh, and I fail to see the problem with some people using personality clashes as a casus belli. Seeing as we can't just start fabricating claims and stuff. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12560
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 09:29:01 -
[25] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation?
Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them.
Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
807
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Posted - 2015.10.26 11:06:15 -
[26] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mag's wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation? Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them. Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident
I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise usually disappears after a few days. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25509
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 11:46:31 -
[27] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days. Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3971
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 12:11:35 -
[28] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
And I agree with you. I'm also not lecturing anyone.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3971
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 12:21:59 -
[29] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Adriel Malakai wrote:These jihads are pretty much all we play EVE for anymore. We honestly aren't really sure what we're going to do now, as we've gone after pretty much every pvp group in HS, done a number of null/low/wh deployments, and are pretty much getting to the end of line. Maybe go after Eve Uni next? You could try growing a pair and moving out of the protective skirt of concord. Leto Thule wrote:Mate, I started the thread because the dude is toxic and had some depraved opinions of his fellow players (even going so far as to relate gankers to child molesters in another thread.) I'm sure he got there all on his own too, right? Seems strange that players show up, get attacked and bombarded with attempts to "extract tears", then when it actually works and the target flips out on the forum, you guys act like they are the problem. Grow the **** up. Leto Thule wrote:I guess to each their own, but making RL comparisons to how space pirates in EVE are terrible people IRL because of exploding pixels tells me he needs a break and maybe a shrink. I've not read all his posts on it, but I've seen others. For the most part people aren't saying that space pirates are terrible people in real life. But that's not what most of you people are. You're not in it to steal the booty or sink the ship, you're in it to wind up the guy behind the keyboard. Many gankers go out of their way to find the best ways to push people buttons specifically to affect the player not the character, and so yes, those types of people are actually terrible people IRL. Stop pretending that it's the miner that pushed it beyond the boundaries of the game. You know better than that.
First off, I'm not a ganker. Secondly I don't do the tears thing unless someone starts on me first, so get off your high horse with the "grow up" garbage. Third -- "How he got that way"? I'm sorry but no amount of vid game violence is going to turn me into a paranoid nutball who thinks the game reflects real life in any way.
I'm sort of taken back by you Lucas. You usually have more of an evaluation and logical thought process before jumping down someone's throat. But w/e. Defend the crazy man because he is a carebear and MUST have been traumatized so much by the evil gankers to affect his out of game happenings. Anyone who LETS themselves be seriously influenced by a game shouldn't be playing.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
12562
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 12:57:50 -
[30] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mortlake wrote:I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days. Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?
baaaaaaaahahahaha!
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
|
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
808
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 13:08:42 -
[31] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mortlake wrote:I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days. Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?
Not as big as your Dad's, yo? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25512
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 13:31:32 -
[32] - Quote
Mortlake wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mortlake wrote:I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days. Just how big is your mothers shoe collection? Not as big as your Dad's, yo? Touch+¬ good sir.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6902
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 17:10:41 -
[33] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:First off, I'm not a ganker. Secondly I don't do the tears thing unless someone starts on me first, so get off your high horse with the "grow up" garbage. Apologies then.
Leto Thule wrote:Third -- "How he got that way"? I'm sorry but no amount of vid game violence is going to turn me into a paranoid nutball who thinks the game reflects real life in any way.
I'm sort of taken back by you Lucas. You usually have more of an evaluation and logical thought process before jumping down someone's throat. But w/e. Defend the crazy man because he is a carebear and MUST have been traumatized so much by the evil gankers to affect his out of game happenings. Anyone who LETS themselves be seriously influenced by a game shouldn't be playing. I'm not saying the game reflects real life. What I'm saying is that there's players in this game who go out of their way to engage in psychological warfare, where their intent is to upset and anger the player behind the screen. It's not just a case of competing players blowing up each others ships, it's carefully planned and tested methods of winding a player up to and past their breaking point. Why are people so surprised when it works?
That may or may not be what's happened in this case. There are crazies in games even without people pushing them there, and I've not read enough to comment completely on this guy, but it's not exactly a new thing to see someone this wound up about ganking groups.
Sure, people that get upset by games shouldn't necessarily be playing, but then at the same time, neither should people who go out of their way to wind up other players to the extent that they lose their ****.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7192
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 20:38:40 -
[34] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mortlake wrote:I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days. Just how big is your mothers shoe collection?
Oh... ow!
Oh snap 
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7192
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 20:45:57 -
[35] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mag's wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation? Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them. Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident
This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3978
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 21:15:10 -
[36] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
Apologies then.
Thank you.
Lucas Kell wrote:
I'm not saying the game reflects real life.
No mate, you arent. But HE is. Did you read his blog and/or the other threads?
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3978
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 21:24:59 -
[37] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mag's wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation? Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them. Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming.
Yeah man, we likely all agree. But thats not what this dude is on about. The point is he thinks space pirates are bad people for conducting in-game actions like wardecs and ganks. SWAT teams are not involved here.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Mag's
the united
20628
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 01:24:09 -
[38] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mag's wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation? Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them. Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming. I think you read what you wanted to in that thread tbh. No one condoned it. But some, including none CODE members, disagreed with you in regards to calling it attempted murder. In your opinion it is, but not theirs.
Swatting is awful and from what I understand, Markee was targeted was due to his live streaming. I sincerely hope those involved in causing this or any swat, are dealt with harshly. You are right in that this could mean the death of someone, but whether that makes it attempted murder, is difficult to say. But disagreeing with you on that point, hardly makes people 'toxic'. It's merely a disagreement with a point of law.
Which is a far cry from what this guy is about. His view on certain play styles, is most defiantly 'toxic'.
If you've read the blog, then you'd have seen the baby comment.
What you may not have read, was the following.
Estevan Andrard wrote:I just consider a person who uses a weapon ship to destroy a ship with no weapons a sort of "pedofile of pvp".
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
816
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 08:15:43 -
[39] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mortlake wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Mortlake wrote:I think people are making a big deal out of this swatting nonsense.
I get swatted playing EvE all the time, but in all honesty, once I make her a cup of tea and promise to buy her a new pair of shoes she usually calms down and the bruise disappears after a few days. Just how big is your mothers shoe collection? Not as big as your Dad's, yo? Touch+¬ good sir. Seriously though, dropping a Police armed response team on somebody over a game or for lols is plain nasty; there's so much that can hideously wrong with something like that, not to mention that the resources deployed could be saving someone's life elsewhere.
I totally agree. I've seen a few streamers flashing replica weapons around (because #YOLOSWAG) and I dread to think what might occur if it happened to them. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6907
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 08:16:27 -
[40] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:No mate, you arent. But HE is. Did you read his blog and/or the other threads? I read his blog and agreed with a couple of points. You seem to have taken that to mean I agree with everything he says, which I don't. Most of the time though when these people show up, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other though.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3994
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 12:23:17 -
[41] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:No mate, you arent. But HE is. Did you read his blog and/or the other threads? I read his blog and agreed with a couple of points. You seem to have taken that to mean I agree with everything he says, which I don't. Most of the time though when these people show up, it's six of one and half a dozen of the other though.
Dare I ask what you agree with? This guy is nuts. Sometimes I think you argue for the sake of it.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6907
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 13:42:14 -
[42] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Dare I ask what you agree with? This guy is nuts. Sometimes I think you argue for the sake of it. Sure, it's posted back here. Effectively that wardecs limit new corp growth. The moment someone gets big enough (and 'big enough' is still pretty small) they become a target for veteran players who rip through them with ease. That leaves the options of playing solo or joining only established corps, which is bad for content diversity and player retention.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
607
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 16:32:48 -
[43] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Dare I ask what you agree with? This guy is nuts. Sometimes I think you argue for the sake of it. Sure, it's posted back here. Effectively that wardecs limit new corp growth. The moment someone gets big enough (and 'big enough' is still pretty small) they become a target for veteran players who rip through them with ease. That leaves the options of playing solo or joining only established corps, which is bad for content diversity and player retention.
I maintain that setting a starting cost of 50m for decing a huge mistake. All this really accomplished was raising the barrier to entry for small entities, particularly those with young players, to get involved in hs PVP, especially against other small entities. Instead, these players are forced to group up in order to lower the cost-burden for hs PVP, which results in (generally) worse wars for everyone. Rather than having players learn to cope with wars and get introduced to PVP by a small group they have a chance of handling (not to mention are encouraged to settle slights on their own), they end up growing in size until the larger PVP groups notice them. Then their first experience is against someone that probably has higher sp, experience, and in some cases numbers, that they rarely have a real chance against, which is generally detrimental to their attitude towards PVP. Beyond that, it's honestly pretty boring from a PVP perspective, which is why BAW pretty much only goes after mercs and other PVP entities these days (generally unless contracted). |
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3994
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 17:06:45 -
[44] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Dare I ask what you agree with? This guy is nuts. Sometimes I think you argue for the sake of it. Sure, it's posted back here. Effectively that wardecs limit new corp growth. The moment someone gets big enough (and 'big enough' is still pretty small) they become a target for veteran players who rip through them with ease. That leaves the options of playing solo or joining only established corps, which is bad for content diversity and player retention.
I disagree. From personal experience, being wardecced and having my alliance fall apart HELPED me get out of high sec and learn EVE. Therefore it was pretty good for player retention for me and the ten or so friends I went with.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
717
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 17:30:48 -
[45] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mag's wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:And I have forum-fu'ed with CODE. members who won't agree that SWATting another player (dropping a heavily armed tactical team on them on the pretext of a hostage situation or related violence via crank/spoofed call) is a form of attempted murder.
So don't lecture me about players being "toxic" or try to red herring me with chesters.
I've never even heard that term before, let alone seen it used on the forum before now. Any links or an explanation? Markee Dragon got swatted a while back while live streaming eve, it's been a common (ish) thing in the US for a couple of years now though you rarely see or hear about it in relation to eve because here when you want to **** with someone, you can just run a locator and go **** with them. Herzog had a thread with a link to the news article about the particular incident This. Having dealt with this kind of training and the "combat science" around it, sending a SWAT team against somebody is serious business and IMO attempted murder. If the online community does not condemn and put a stop to this, politicians will, and not in ways we'll find beneficial to gaming. Yeah man, we likely all agree. But thats not what this dude is on about. The point is he thinks space pirates are bad people for conducting in-game actions like wardecs and ganks. SWAT teams are not involved here.
Leto I don't think anyone who reads these forums would pigeonhole you as someone purely interested in farming rage out of mentally unbalanced people in highsec. The Thunderdome event is a glorious example opportunity for players to engage in honorable PvP of a sort rare in the game. You wear alot of hats in relation to this game I believe.
However, there has always been an undercurrent of behavior among certain elements of the highsec PvP/black hat population that I found unsettling. It's not limited to CODE, or even to EVE. It's this sort of childish, trollish glee that some people on the internet seem to take in seriously screwing with the guy on the other side of the keyboard, beyond an acceptable level, from behind the shield of virtual anonymity. They want to make people lose their **** and then whistle innocently while their target goes off like a bomb. The bonus room fiasco, and the fact that much of the rest of the minerbumping community seems to think those bans were unjustified and refused to call folks out for stepping over the line, speaks to what I think Lucas and Herzog are talking about. And I can't help but draw a distinction between a player like ParanoidLoyd who runs an extremely successful and extremely quiet ganking for profit operation, and those who view nonconsensual highsec PvP as first and foremost an avenue to elicit the most extreme possible reaction from the victim. Loyd may know that the idiot who just got his plex tanked iteron blapped by a thrasher is livid, but he doesn't seem to feel the need to go fishing for rage content. But there seem to be alot of players who tap into this larger digital trend of straddling the line of acceptable behavior in an effort to really **** with the guy on the other end. For them, winning EVE is finding the mentally/emotionally unstable players and winding them up and watching them go boom. I admit, as a frequent minerbumping reader, it can be highly amusing. But I also believe that sometimes lines are being crossed.
Obviously there's a huge difference between ingame griefing and out of game harassment tactics like doxxing and swatting at the most extreme end of the spectrum. Swatting is not a joke at all; here in the US it is very possible that such an act could result in death or serious injury. There's a number of stories about officers executing people's dogs and tossing stun grenades rather haphazardly in situations where such things are completely unwarranted. Swatting is something the law enforcement community is now sadly very aware of, and prosecutors will come down very hard on anyone caught engaging in this sort of "prank." You will see serious prison sentences as idiots convicted of this are made examples of. It is really a sociopathic use of emergency services as a deadly weapon. But as I said it represents the extreme edge of a popular internet subculture centered around pushing people's buttons from behind the shield of digital anonymity. There's far, far too much effort put into figuring out precisely where the line is beyond which such remote button-mashing will begin to result in tangible consequences, and carrying out shenanigans just barely on the safe side of said line. And from what I've seen, it looks like this game may attract a number of individuals who enjoy such pursuits and are offered ample opportunity for virtual fuckery via the potential for real loss in time and effort which is a hallmark of this game.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6910
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 17:41:32 -
[46] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:I maintain that setting a starting cost of 50m for decing a huge mistake. All this really accomplished was raising the barrier to entry for small entities, particularly those with young players, to get involved in hs PVP, especially against other small entities. Instead, these players are forced to group up in order to lower the cost-burden for hs PVP, which results in (generally) worse wars for everyone. Rather than having players learn to cope with wars and get introduced to PVP by a small group they have a chance of handling (not to mention are encouraged to settle slights on their own), they end up growing in size until the larger PVP groups notice them. Then their first experience is against someone that probably has higher sp, experience, and in some cases numbers, that they rarely have a real chance against, which is generally detrimental to their attitude towards PVP. Beyond that, it's honestly pretty boring from a PVP perspective, which is why BAW pretty much only goes after mercs and other PVP entities these days (generally unless contracted). But then again 50m is negligible even for small groups. Personally, I think the problem was removing limitations on wardecs. Back when you couldn't have several hundred wardecs, wardec groups had to choose between targets and split up to cover more targets. Now there's no reason not to wardec every random PvE corp, since it doesn't affect your other wars. Individual line members can pick a couple of corps and chuck in the fees to wardec them, resulting in the mindless mass wardecs that now exist. If you could only wardec say 5 groups at a time, you've have to be very picky over who you want to target. Removing the need to choose was not a good idea.
Leto Thule wrote:I disagree. From personal experience, being wardecced and having my alliance fall apart HELPED me get out of high sec and learn EVE. Therefore it was pretty good for player retention for me and the ten or so friends I went with. I'm sure that's true for you, but it's not for everyone. I'd wager that far more people are put off by being obliterated in their early days by bored veterans than those that see it as a learning experience.
It's like RUST, when you join with a rock and a stick, spend 2 hours gathering wood and other rocks with your rock, then a guy with full armour and a weapons runs over and caves your head in. It's just no fun to be roflstomped by equipped experienced players, especially when you know that they gained no in-game value by doing it. They literally just did it so that your progress was stepped back.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
718
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 17:41:48 -
[47] - Quote
And the issue with wardecs is that they're utterly pointless. There's literally no upside to being part of a large PvE oriented corp in highsec, and anyone competent will use the tools at their disposal (neutral alts, corp rolling, avoidance of highsec) to render a wardec irrelevant. So you end up just culling the dumb and lazy.
My corp was just decc'ed by PoH and we never saw them. One of our guys lost his mission boat to a hub camper, aside from that there was no interaction whatsoever because most of us make income on alts or in lowsec and we have members with neutral frieghters.
I ******* wish they'd brought a fleet to Sujarento but I know better. If we didn't dunk them Snuff or SC would; hell the whole warzone would turn out to shoot highsec mercs in shiny T3's and you can be damn sure Mr. Santo would be waiting to collect some HG Slaves on the way home.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
3995
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 17:50:10 -
[48] - Quote
Well said. Not gonna try to quote edit on the cell....
I don't disagree on the SWAT stuff. I was a military policeman and know full well the orders a tactical team gets before a dynamic entry. (Never actually done it, but trained for it nonetheless) and I saw the new story about the team who threw a flashbang into a baby crib. It's a terrible thing to even consider a prank, and if someone did that to MY house, it would end up in several casualties. (I mean I'm going to be unaware its police and a high likelihood that once the door gets kicked in that I'll run downstairs with the shotgun.. That story doesn't end well for anyone.)
I had agreements with both sides of the bonus room bans. On one hand nobody forced the idiots (yes, idiots) to do those rediculous things, but on the other it takes a fd up mind to come up with it. Who knows. The bans were also handed out rather randomly aside from the key players, and I didn't like that either but in the end it's up to CCP.
What I will stick by is my point that while I enjoy conflict and destroying other peoples space pixels, I don't expect to be called everything from sociopath to baby killer for actions in a game. Some people poke others until they pop, yes. But some people just flip out first, like the topic of this thread.
People need to get accustomed to losing ships. Maybe the next thunderdome will use t1 only so newer players (and some vets) can see that getting blown up isn't the end of the world.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
719
|
Posted - 2015.10.27 20:34:06 -
[49] - Quote
So having gone back and read that blog entry...the guy is a bit verbose and over the top at times but I don't necessarily disagree with him on wardecs. All the roleplay'ish nonsense about bribing being CONCORD aside - he's saying the same thing I've said repeatedly, albeit in many more words. The same thing I said in my last post here. Wardecs only affect people who want to fight, or who don't understand how the game works. There is no reason to run a highsec industrial corp other than vanity and to provide others with targets.
Well, not completely pointless. They provide a mechanism for dealing with structures in highsec. I know **** all about industry so-áI'm not sure what industry/structure related activities require one to be in a player corp but you could easily run a one man shell corp for structure purposes and not attract much attention - it's the big, dumb corps full of news and casuals which aspire to be communities for highsec PvE and some vague pretensions of learning PvP which catch the permanent wardecs. Because nobody actually enjoys bashing structures. Mercs will do that for ISK but it's boring as hell. It's the decs vs masses of mechanic/meta-game ignorant miners and mission runners and perpetual highsec dwellers which provide the content and the hilarious kills.
Wardecs provide an avenue for consensual PvP free from crimewatch/sec status consequences, a means for structure removal in highsec, and a means to engage in near-unlimited nonconsensual PvP with the dumbest and worst players in the game. They have zero effect on people that understand corp mechanics and have alts.
Is that statement incorrect?
The oft-maligned blue donut simply denotes the fact that much of the player base specifically the veteran player base rich in SP and assets have elected to form ever larger cooperative groups in order to reap the advantages conferred by that ever more concentrated power and wealth to provide themselves with an optimal gaming experience with respect to content and risk levels. These groups are hesitant to engage in all out wars against one another because doing so basically becomes a time and effort endurance test and runs the risk of incurring huge losses once again representative of great quantities of time and effort. So the majority of their content consists of engaging smaller entities which can't challenge them on a strategic level, can't compete at the cap/supercap level and thus can never pose an existential threat. The big groups don't want to fight each other and the smaller groups don't want to engage in fights where the outcome is guaranteed by the damocles' sword of supercapital escalation. This leads to stagnation.
What about that one?
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4000
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 02:19:48 -
[50] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Wardecs provide an avenue for consensual PvP free from crimewatch/sec status consequences, a means for structure removal in highsec, and a means to engage in near-unlimited nonconsensual PvP with the dumbest and worst players in the game. They have zero effect on people that understand corp mechanics and have alts.
Is that statement incorrect?
While I see your point, the answer is going to have to be "no", or at the very least " it depends". Looking at the killboards alone from the various multitude of merc corps in highsec, it becomes hard to say that highsec wardecs have "zero" effect. Do the people know the game? It would not really be possible to speculate. Some do, im sure, while others are certainly clueless. The point boils down to as long as there is profit in wardecs, there will BE wardecs.
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The oft-maligned blue donut simply denotes the fact that much of the player base specifically the veteran player base rich in SP and assets have elected to form ever larger cooperative groups in order to reap the advantages conferred by that ever more concentrated power and wealth to provide themselves with an optimal gaming experience with respect to content and risk levels. These groups are hesitant to engage in all out wars against one another because doing so basically becomes a time and effort endurance test and runs the risk of incurring huge losses once again representative of great quantities of time and effort. So the majority of their content consists of engaging smaller entities which can't challenge them on a strategic level, can't compete at the cap/supercap level and thus can never pose an existential threat. The big groups don't want to fight each other and the smaller groups don't want to engage in fights where the outcome is guaranteed by the damocles' sword of supercapital escalation. This leads to stagnation.
What about that one?
Absolutely true. But it deals more with nullsec sov and less with wardecs. The blue donut sucks, but there is nothing that will change this until the Goons (and the likes of) DECIDE to change it. Sucks, but thats the truth.
But I will need to point out as well... the guy's logic isnt the problem. It is his attitude and assumption that EVE pirates are real life criminals.
I dont, personally, understand why highsec corps dodge decs. Will they lose stuff? Oh yea. But there will come a time after that, that they will start to win. SP only matters to the point of assets on grid, and that gap literally closes with each passing day in a newer players life. Active participants often garner respect with the aggressor, and those who do get advice, instruction, and most importantly in EVE, networking. And because I know its coming, no, its not really fun to get roflstomped by a larger group, but that is true literally anywhere in EVE. If I roam on out to shadow cartel land by myself, I probly shouldnt get upset I get blobbed and blapped by the locals.
This is also partly why I dont get the point where you shouldnt establish a highsec corp worth wardecing. If its large enough to dec, more than likely that means you have enough pilots to form a competent fleet (with some help). Maybe its just me, and my nature of welcoming conflict, but I view it as an opportunity to expose yourself to content.
If you get decced, dont log off. Dont drop corp. Avoid fights if you must, but fight back if you can. The mercs are your bad guys, and they are making your game HARD. Thank them for it.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4000
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 02:25:47 -
[51] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote: Then their first experience is against someone that probably has higher sp, experience, and in some cases numbers, that they rarely have a real chance against, which is generally detrimental to their attitude towards PVP. .
https://zkillboard.com/kill/31227577/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/31438803/
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6917
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 08:52:28 -
[52] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:I dont, personally, understand why highsec corps dodge decs. Will they lose stuff? Oh yea. But there will come a time after that, that they will start to win. SP only matters to the point of assets on grid, and that gap literally closes with each passing day in a newer players life.
This is also partly why I dont get the point where you shouldnt establish a highsec corp worth wardecing. If its large enough to dec, more than likely that means you have enough pilots to form a competent fleet (with some help). Maybe its just me, and my nature of welcoming conflict, but I view it as an opportunity to expose yourself to content. But they won't. A corp that does anything except specialise in PvP won't be likely to win against a corp that specialises in PvP. You shouldn't make a corp worth wardeccing, because it simply won't be able to function. You can't create a non-PvP focussed corp and win without swapping out and going "right, now all we do is PvP" in which case you've destroyed the whole identity of your corp anyway.
Leto Thule wrote:If you get decced, dont log off. Dont drop corp. Avoid fights if you must, but fight back if you can. The mercs are your bad guys, and they are making your game HARD. Thank them for it. I'd say go the other way. If you get decced, drop corp and either recreate if you need to or stay in NPC corps. If wardeccers aren't willing to push for balance because they want to hold on to the ridiculous advantage they have, then don't feed them content. Don't engage with them, don't converse with them, just wait for them to inevitably get bored and **** off.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4003
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 12:14:56 -
[53] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:I dont, personally, understand why highsec corps dodge decs. Will they lose stuff? Oh yea. But there will come a time after that, that they will start to win. SP only matters to the point of assets on grid, and that gap literally closes with each passing day in a newer players life.
This is also partly why I dont get the point where you shouldnt establish a highsec corp worth wardecing. If its large enough to dec, more than likely that means you have enough pilots to form a competent fleet (with some help). Maybe its just me, and my nature of welcoming conflict, but I view it as an opportunity to expose yourself to content. But they won't. A corp that does anything except specialise in PvP won't be likely to win against a corp that specialises in PvP. You shouldn't make a corp worth wardeccing, because it simply won't be able to function. You can't create a non-PvP focussed corp and win without swapping out and going "right, now all we do is PvP" in which case you've destroyed the whole identity of your corp anyway. Leto Thule wrote:If you get decced, dont log off. Dont drop corp. Avoid fights if you must, but fight back if you can. The mercs are your bad guys, and they are making your game HARD. Thank them for it. I'd say go the other way. If you get decced, drop corp and either recreate if you need to or stay in NPC corps. If wardeccers aren't willing to push for balance because they want to hold on to the ridiculous advantage they have, then don't feed them content. Don't engage with them, don't converse with them, just wait for them to inevitably get bored and **** off.
Because we want the game to be easy right? Just herpdederp mission running and mining. Fun times.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6918
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 13:55:13 -
[54] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Because we want the game to be easy right? Just herpdederp mission running and mining. Fun times. No, we don't, but wardecs aren't the only source of a challenge for other players. Not to mention that for the wardeccers it's already stupidly easy. So effectively what you're saying is that wardecs should remain easy for the attackers and continue to make it virtually impossible for a sizable non-PvP focussed corp to exist, because without it you can't see any other method of adding challenge and risk to the existing mechanics.
I'd like to see challenge all round. I'd like to see wardeccers have to make choices rather than just "dec all the things" and attack capable people for more rewards rather than farming nubs. At the same time I'd like to see PvE mechanics shaken up so that they are inherently challenging in themselves. Most importantly, I'd like to see different types of players running corporations that play in various ways and not being immediately put down because they don't focus entirely on PvP, because the way I see it, that's the biggest barrier to player retention. The best option for a highsec non-PvPer (or even someone who only PvPs some of the time) is to be in a solo corp or an NPC one. That's a bad thing.
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
41
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 20:21:43 -
[55] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Because we want the game to be easy right? Just herpdederp mission running and mining. Fun times. No, we don't, but wardecs aren't the only source of a challenge for other players. Not to mention that for the wardeccers it's already stupidly easy.
This argument is fallacious because it is appealing to yourself as an authority but you are an unqualified authority. This isn't meant to be an attack but rather I'm trying to get you to see that you have spoken in a few situations on this forum where you made a generalization about your argumentative opponent that was not based off of personal experience.
I have been on both sides of wardeccing.
A while after joining the game my first alliance got wardecced by Brick Squad (Or however they liked to spell it) and camped us into station in hisec with a bunch of ships including Kronoses, T3s, HACs and Falcons. After being camped in for an extended period we more or less said to hell with it and undocked in a small fleet of mostly tech 1 ships and mopped the floor with them. Killed a proteus andsome other things(been a while) and even got a high grade pod. Keep in mind this was an alliance that was composed of mostly characters less than 6 months old. After that they stopped bothering us.
First thing I did after leaving nullsec was fall into the trap of thinking "oh hey hisec wardeccing should be easy" and came to hisec to for The Dickwad Squad and go fly around for pew. The first thing I noticed was that dec assists were free.... And when you send out wardecs you generally get some mercs piling on your decs (See: Marmite(<3)). This is also just one of the difficulties. As a deccer I have also had my enemies set up some pretty brilliant traps that resulted in me getting scrammed by an Orca (Never a good day).
Naturally the counter example to this would be to join a large hub camping group and do easy hub camping but you will find that there are a lot of very competent groups that will hunt you down and kill you. (See: Break-A-Wish). I was actually flying with Adriel Malakai and his scoundrel band of **** swaggling swashbucklers when we teamed up to kill Marmite. We tracked a target in Amarr before he saw one of us and JUMPCLONED to Hek to try and escape us. To which we then flew to and promptly killed his Hictor.
The ever present aspect about this game is that it is difficult. It doesn't matter where you are trying to look for trouble. Trouble will always come find you instead.
I would like to challenge you to make your own wardeccing corp and try to fly around a bit and get into some trouble. Or maybe even join another group of 5 or less pilots that already do wardeccing. You will find that hisec isn't always the theme park people proclaim it to be.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4008
|
Posted - 2015.10.28 21:12:28 -
[56] - Quote
Lucas I think you argue for arguments sake. I'm not gonna bother restating the points or asking you questions you'll trapse around.
Wars provide content where none previously exsisted. Enough said.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6920
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 08:52:54 -
[57] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Lucas I think you argue for arguments sake. I'm not gonna bother restating the points or asking you questions you'll trapse around.
Wars provide content where none previously exsisted. Enough said. No, I argue where I have an opposing opinion, and you're not gonna bother because you have no interest in a reasonable discussion, you've made that clear. So with that in mind:
Wars block content where content previously existed. Enough said.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6920
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 09:01:54 -
[58] - Quote
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Because we want the game to be easy right? Just herpdederp mission running and mining. Fun times. No, we don't, but wardecs aren't the only source of a challenge for other players. Not to mention that for the wardeccers it's already stupidly easy. This argument is fallacious because it is appealing to yourself as an authority but you are an unqualified authority. This isn't meant to be an attack but rather I'm trying to get you to see that you have spoken in a few situations on this forum where you made a generalization about your argumentative opponent that was not based off of personal experience. I have been on both sides of wardeccing. So have I *shrug*. It's not my fault that you make assumptions about my experience.
All you've done here is cite a single experience from a single point of view and then said "because we were terrible, wardecs are obviously challenging", yet the existence of several groups with hundreds of wardecs active every week and the non-existence of sizable non-PvP corps in highsec shows a fundamental balance issue. Amusingly you even point to it yourself if your anecdote. You couldn't grow as a group because existing wardec groups have an easy time keeping you down, and you were in a PvP focussed group. Imagine now that you are in a group with 80% of you are trying to do PvE, industry or trading, and perhaps you'll understand why the system is borked.
Simply put, creating a sizable corp in highsec shouldn't only be an option if you are focussed purely on PvP. There should be variety.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4015
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 12:04:54 -
[59] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Lucas I think you argue for arguments sake. I'm not gonna bother restating the points or asking you questions you'll trapse around.
Wars provide content where none previously exsisted. Enough said. No, I argue where I have an opposing opinion, and you're not gonna bother because you have no interest in a reasonable discussion, you've made that clear. So with that in mind: Wars block content where content previously existed. Enough said.
Please tell me what content wars block. Mining OP's?
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 12:19:27 -
[60] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Please tell me what content wars block. Mining OP's? Any sizable non-PvP focussed highsec corp. If you want to join a highsec corp you either have to select a full on PvP corp or a tiny corp that will at some point get big enough to be stomped all over by wardeccers. It's why groups like red-frog operate entirely from NPC alts, because anything else would be suicide.
If joining player corps improves retention, and players join for a variety of different playstyles, then corps in the starting area of space should be able to support the full array of playstyles. But they can't, because wardecs ensure that only other wardec and PvP groups exist beyond a minuscule scale in highsec.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4020
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 20:51:50 -
[61] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Please tell me what content wars block. Mining OP's? Any sizable non-PvP focussed highsec corp. If you want to join a highsec corp you either have to select a full on PvP corp or a tiny corp that will at some point get big enough to be stomped all over by wardeccers. It's why groups like red-frog operate entirely from NPC alts, because anything else would be suicide. If joining player corps improves retention, and players join for a variety of different playstyles, then corps in the starting area of space should be able to support the full array of playstyles. But they can't, because wardecs ensure that only other wardec and PvP groups exist beyond a minuscule scale in highsec.
Odd. Pvp is unavoidable in a pvp game. Hmm.
Anyhow, you derailed it into another famous Lucas kell troll masterpiece long enough. The entire point wasn't a discussion on the validity of wardecs. It was about the OP thinking eebil space pirates are terrible people IRL.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 21:18:43 -
[62] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Odd. Pvp is unavoidable in a pvp game. Hmm. No, it's not. But get over your blinkered view of what constitutes PvP for a moment and understand that there should be more variety of playstyles in highsec. It's ludicrous that wardecs put such a heavy limit on what corps can do. Honestly, sometimes I think you want easy stagnant gameplay.
Leto Thule wrote:Anyhow, you derailed it into another famous Lucas kell troll masterpiece long enough. The entire point wasn't a discussion on the validity of wardecs. It was about the OP thinking eebil space pirates are terrible people IRL.
You are the OP, genius, and the thread was you insulting some dude cos he has different opinions from you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4020
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 21:49:37 -
[63] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Odd. Pvp is unavoidable in a pvp game. Hmm. No, it's not. But get over your blinkered view of what constitutes PvP for a moment and understand that there should be more variety of playstyles in highsec. It's ludicrous that wardecs put such a heavy limit on what corps can do. Honestly, sometimes I think you want easy stagnant gameplay.
No, sorry. Even the devs say "EVE is a PVP game at its core, and there is nowhere in EVE that you are safe". Sorry. Really, sorry. So lets talk about MY "blinkered view" of what constitutes PVP. Please. Sorry. Sorry.
If corps want to succeed, they need to grow some balls and learn to fight, or hire mercs to fight for them. You know I missed your posts while you were gone. WTF was I thinking.
Leto Thule wrote:Anyhow, you derailed it into another famous Lucas kell troll masterpiece long enough. The entire point wasn't a discussion on the validity of wardecs. It was about the OP thinking eebil space pirates are terrible people IRL.
Yeah yeah yeah. The TOPIC of the OP. Typing on a mobile sucks. And a hell yes I have a differing opinion on the fact that because I blow things up in a GAME it doesnt make me a bad person.
So tell me, do you think I am a crazy psycho because I may get the urge to ruin someone's EVE day??
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 22:57:10 -
[64] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:No, sorry. Even the devs say "EVE is a PVP game at its core, and there is nowhere in EVE that you are safe". Sorry. Really, sorry. So lets talk about MY "blinkered view" of what constitutes PVP. Please. Sorry. Sorry. *facepalm* Yes, and what is "PvP". Hint, it doesn't just mean "shooting people".
Leto Thule wrote:If corps want to succeed, they need to grow some balls and learn to fight, or hire mercs to fight for them. You know I missed your posts while you were gone. WTF was I thinking. Fighting isn't the whole game. Newer players and newer corps get jumped on by veteran wardeccers and they are supposed to just magic up funding or drop everything and play purely for shooting each other just because the wardeccers want and easy time? So is this you confirming that you only believe that players wanting to purely focus on shooting each other should be allowed to have corps? If that's the case, perhaps CCP should just remove all other aspects of the game.
Leto Thule wrote:Yeah yeah yeah. The TOPIC of the OP. Typing on a mobile sucks. And a hell yes I have a differing opinion on the fact that because I blow things up in a GAME it doesn't make me a bad person. Yes, the TOPIC of the OP was you insulting another player for having different opinions to yourself, what those opinions consist of is irrelevant. Honestly, the thread should have just been locked and you should have received a warning for trolling from post 1.
Leto Thule wrote:So tell me, do you think I am a crazy psycho because I may get the urge to ruin someone's EVE day?? Nope, and never claimed as much. Though let's face it, if the joy you get is purely from the fact that another player (not character) is upset and not from the challenge of the game (you've made it clear you don't like the game to be challenging), then it hardly makes you the best kind of person either.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
47
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 23:26:06 -
[65] - Quote
[quote=Lucas Kell *slice* for a moment and understand that there should be more variety of playstyles in highsec. *Slice*
[/quote]
You should understand that on this forum you are consistently taking the side of limiting the types of playstyles in hisec.
If you listen to anything that most of these people say you will see that their opinions are usually central on how to maintain a balance while not neutering content.
Additionally I find your remarks extremely inflammatory and lacking even a modicum of productivity due to your inability to want to reason with your peers in the forum.
As for your comment about it being hard for me to start a hisec pvp group of course it was. Then again no one becomes successful in any other part of space and thinks it was amazingly easy. This game is about the struggle.
Also appreciated seeing that you took all that time to read the text block and analyze it instead of **** posting.
+1
PS: Congrats for having your question selected on the eve-o show
7o
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4021
|
Posted - 2015.10.29 23:45:53 -
[66] - Quote
Lol.
"You don't like the game to be challenging".
Please keep forgetting that I explained how being decced into the ground helped me, not hindered me.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:15:32 -
[67] - Quote
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:You should understand that on this forum you are consistently taking the side of limiting the types of playstyles in hisec. ROFL, that's a hoot. This forum would literally strip the game down to nothing but pew pew if they had their way. I'm happy for all playstyles to co-exist, they just can;t right now because certain groups are too eager to maintain their overly eager gameplay.
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Additionally I find your remarks extremely inflammatory and lacking even a modicum of productivity due to your inability to want to reason with your peers in the forum. I couldn't care less how you find my remarks. I'm happy to reason with people, but reasoning and conceding are not the same thing. Most people here have absolutely no interest in compromise. They want easy kills and to maintain the current broken status quo. They don't give a crap about balance.
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:As for your comment about it being hard for me to start a hisec pvp group of course it was. Then again no one becomes successful in any other part of space and thinks it was amazingly easy. Of course not, though it's easier for some than others. Now try to start up a sizable corp focussed on industry, mining, trading or haling without using NPC alts to do everything, and see how long it takes before you get wardecced into the ground. Like I said before, the only type of corp viable for highsec is a pure combat focussed one. That's obviously broken.
Leto Thule wrote:Lol.
"You don't like the game to be challenging".
Please keep forgetting that I explained how being decced into the ground helped me, not hindered me. Yes, I remember your little story. And you did what with that? You sit around bitching about how the ability to mass wardec noobs should be kept. Such a tough guy.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4021
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:22:56 -
[68] - Quote
I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
48
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:24:51 -
[69] - Quote
Wow... Looks like its already back to **** posting then. That didnt take long.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:29:28 -
[70] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it. And you're happy with what it takes away from the game too it seems, like varied playstyles. I get it.
Don't get me wrong, wardecs should still exist, they just need to be balanced so that they are more rewarding for taking on capable players (rather than the current form where it's more rewarding to go after soft targets) and require choices of targets not just "dec everyone".
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:30:24 -
[71] - Quote
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Wow... Looks like its already back to **** posting then. That didnt take long. It's all in the eye of the reader bro. If you can't be bothered to read and understand it then yes, I imagine it just looks like **** posting to you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
49
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:31:35 -
[72] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it.
Honestly im starting to get the impression the only content he pursues is forum content at this point. He speaks so much and knows so little it can't truly be any other way.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4022
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:38:09 -
[73] - Quote
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Leto Thule wrote:I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it. Honestly im starting to get the impression the only content he pursues is forum content at this point. He speaks so much and knows so little it can't truly be any other way.
Nah. He enjoys getting people riled up. Often times I consider him a masterful troll. I doubt that account undocks much (if ever) and is likely industrial or trade based.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
49
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:40:08 -
[74] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Leto Thule wrote:I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it. Honestly im starting to get the impression the only content he pursues is forum content at this point. He speaks so much and knows so little it can't truly be any other way. Nah. He enjoys getting people riled up. Often times I consider him a masterful troll. I doubt that account undocks much (if ever) and is likely industrial or trade based.
Wait.... People get riled up on this forum?
Thats cute
Edit: actually now that you mention it I did see him troll one of the Broadcast 4 Reps threads. Found that a little distasteful.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4022
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:42:15 -
[75] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it. And you're happy with what it takes away from the game too it seems, like varied playstyles. I get it. Don't get me wrong, wardecs should still exist, they just need to be balanced so that they are more rewarding for taking on capable players (rather than the current form where it's more rewarding to go after soft targets) and require choices of targets not just "dec everyone".
I fully support varied playstyles.
How about this:
I would be fine with nerfing wardecs in the event every single rat in highsec was able to scramble and had sleeper level DPS and tank.
The wardec corps provide the element of danger to EVE that simply does not exist without them. Nothing should be easy. It wasnt for me, it wasnt for you (if you didnt start out in SMA, I dont know) and it damn well shouldnt be for any newbros.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
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Cyclo Hexanol
The Dickwad Squad
Slaver's Union
49
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 00:57:45 -
[76] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:I'm not a wardeccer and I'm not even particularly good at EVE. Never said I was a tough guy. I like the element it brings to the game, that's it. And you're happy with what it takes away from the game too it seems, like varied playstyles. I get it. Don't get me wrong, wardecs should still exist, they just need to be balanced so that they are more rewarding for taking on capable players (rather than the current form where it's more rewarding to go after soft targets) and require choices of targets not just "dec everyone". I fully support varied playstyles. How about this: I would be fine with nerfing wardecs in the event every single rat in highsec was able to scramble and had sleeper level DPS and tank. The wardec corps provide the element of danger to EVE that simply does not exist without them. Nothing should be easy. It wasnt for me, it wasnt for you (if you didnt start out in SMA, I dont know) and it damn well shouldnt be for any newbros.
Actually that isnt a bad idea. It would drive player groups because solo mining afk mining would be pretty much impossible. You would need to group up to deal with the rats.
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King of Stating the Obvious 2015
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Elected by: Random forum alt
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 07:43:57 -
[77] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:I fully support varied playstyles.
How about this:
I would be fine with nerfing wardecs in the event every single rat in highsec was able to scramble and had sleeper level DPS and tank.
The wardec corps provide the element of danger to EVE that simply does not exist without them. Nothing should be easy. It wasnt for me, it wasnt for you (if you didnt start out in SMA, I dont know) and it damn well shouldnt be for any newbros. But they don't provide danger. NPC corp players have no danger of wardecs. Players who roll their corp when wardecced have no danger of wardecs. All you're suggesting is making the game ridiculously hard in another way in order to make it possible for non-combat groups to be allowed to exist.
It was much easier for me, because when I started (in 2005) wardecs were very much limited (having hundreds was impossible) and the population of the game was much much smaller. Highsec corps actually existed so I got a chance to try out a whole range of things with other people before settling in a nullsec group on my main.
It shouldn't be easy for newbros, no but it should be POSSIBLE to play other playstyles in corps with other people. That's what drives retention. Right now it's not possible because veterans who want easy kills farm noobs the moment they try to join non-combat corps. So you're effectively saying that it shouldn't be easy for noobs, but it should be stupidly easy for vets. Thank god you're not a dev.
Cyclo Hexanol wrote:Actually that isnt a bad idea. It would drive player groups because solo mining afk mining would be pretty much impossible. You would need to group up to deal with the rats. Let's face it though, that wouldn't happen. Newbies would simply leave because they suddenly can't do anything. They'd join and be forced to find a group before they can take part in any content, and undoubtedly be baited by asshats into groups that get them tackled then run away.
I wonder if you guys even want the game to attract new players at all. Do you not like EVE?
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Mag's
the united
20649
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 09:29:38 -
[78] - Quote
Eve is a PvP game. But not just that PvP, it's the other PvP, including that PvP, with some PvP thrown in for good measure. Then of course there is the PvP to top off the PvP we didn't mention. But we must not forget to include that PvP.
Just wanted to clear that up, as it can get confusing at times. Please carry on. 
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4042
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 12:08:55 -
[79] - Quote
Lucas you are a pro at putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say any of that crap and you know it. It isn't about vets getting easy kills.
Again, stay on the topic please.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 12:30:31 -
[80] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Lucas you are a pro at putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say any of that crap and you know it. It isn't about vets getting easy kills. Of course it is. All the vet wardeccers currently have it super easy. You don't want that to change and you want it to remain impossible for non-combat corps to exist unless they completely nerf PvE into the ground. Realistically you want it to stay exactly as it is, nice and easy for vets, and you threw out a ridiculous compromise.
Leto Thule wrote:Again, stay on the topic please. The topic is you trolling a guy, so no. Thread should just be closed tbh.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4043
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 12:42:41 -
[81] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Lucas you are a pro at putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say any of that crap and you know it. It isn't about vets getting easy kills. Of course it is. All the vet wardeccers currently have it super easy. You don't want that to change and you want it to remain impossible for non-combat corps to exist unless they completely nerf PvE into the ground. Realistically you want it to stay exactly as it is, nice and easy for vets, and you threw out a ridiculous compromise. Leto Thule wrote:Again, stay on the topic please. The topic is you trolling a guy, so no. Thread should just be closed tbh.
The topic is the the subject of the OP should be banned because he cannot separate a game from real life. I'm not trolling him, he is trolling everyone with his degrading insults.
Go back to posting on veers. It was more entertaining.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 13:55:21 -
[82] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:The topic is the the subject of the OP should be banned because he cannot separate a game from real life. I'm not trolling him, he is trolling everyone with his degrading insults. Then file a ticket. You should also be banned for trolling him. And yes, you are trolling him. It is your intention to insult and berate him and turn others against him. This thread has no purpose beyond that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4043
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 13:59:32 -
[83] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:The topic is the the subject of the OP should be banned because he cannot separate a game from real life. I'm not trolling him, he is trolling everyone with his degrading insults. Then file a ticket. You should also be banned for trolling him. And yes, you are trolling him. It is your intention to insult and berate him and turn others against him. This thread has no purpose beyond that.
It's a good thing you are here to tell everyone what's going on.
It is certainly not my intention to insult anyone. It is absolutely, however, something that the community needs to see. My intention to berate him is about the same as your intention to berate me.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25573
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 14:31:19 -
[84] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:turn others against him. There's no need for Leto to do that, the guy referred to in the OP managed do that for himself when he compared peoples playstyle to being paedophiles.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 15:51:35 -
[85] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:There's no need for Leto to do that I agree, there is no need for him to do that, nor is there ever a need for troll threads, yet he did it anyway.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mag's
the united
20654
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 16:16:03 -
[86] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:nor is there ever a need for troll threads, yet he did it anyway.
I've said it before, you never fail to provide great irony.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4047
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 16:44:30 -
[87] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:There's no need for Leto to do that I agree, there is no need for him to do that, nor is there ever a need for troll threads, yet he did it anyway.
The irony is gushing.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 16:53:14 -
[88] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:There's no need for Leto to do that I agree, there is no need for him to do that, nor is there ever a need for troll threads, yet he did it anyway. The irony is gushing. Because of all the troll threads I created?
At the end of the day, if you though he was breakign a rule you'd raise a ticket. With that obviously not being the case, you're either here to berate this guy or you're in support of him, so if you're saying you're not trolling him, then let's back on topic: Yes, the wardec system is broken, this guy is correct. Well done Leto for pointing out this guy and showing how much you support his opinions.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4047
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 16:54:20 -
[89] - Quote
Lucas Kell / Veers Belvar -- the "forum falcon"!
Shows up to jam threads and reorder primaries. Coming to a thread near you to defend horrible ideas and people who think space violence is real violence!
Post today!!
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 17:14:14 -
[90] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Lucas Kell / Veers Belvar -- the "forum falcon"! Swing and a miss.
Leto Thule wrote:Shows up to jam threads and reorder primaries. Coming to a thread near you to defend horrible ideas and people who think space violence is real violence! Incorrect again. Geez man you should really learn to read posts. Effectively you're upset that I don't like wardecs as they currently are and want easy gameplay to be made more challenging (because seemingly you hate challenge) so you're now trying to insult me too. Space violence doesn't say anything about you, but your posting style says a lot. Calm down friend, it's only a game.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Paranoid Loyd
7340
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 17:21:41 -
[91] - Quote
The perception of trolling is based on point of view. To us Lucas you are as much as a troll as anyone else. STFU about it already.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 17:29:26 -
[92] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:The perception of trolling is based on point of view. To us Lucas you are as much of a troll as anyone else. STFU about it already. NEVAH! 
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Austneal
Nero Fazione
End of Life
99
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 19:37:59 -
[93] - Quote
So... What exactly is wrong with wardecs? |
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4051
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 20:24:38 -
[94] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Lucas Kell / Veers Belvar -- the "forum falcon"! Swing and a miss. Leto Thule wrote:Shows up to jam threads and reorder primaries. Coming to a thread near you to defend horrible ideas and people who think space violence is real violence! Incorrect again. Geez man you should really learn to read posts. Effectively you're upset that I don't like wardecs as they currently are and want easy gameplay to be made more challenging (because seemingly you hate challenge) so you're now trying to insult me too. Space violence doesn't say anything about you, but your posting style says a lot. Calm down friend, it's only a game.
Can't say I'm upset at all really. I could also care less what you think of wardecs. Nice try though.
Also, everyone knows Veers is you and you are Veers. But it's comical though, so we enjoy it.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 21:51:48 -
[95] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Can't say I'm upset at all really. I could also care less what you think of wardecs. Nice try though. You could care less? So you do care at least a little then? You seem upset.
Leto Thule wrote:Also, everyone knows Veers is you and you are Veers. But it's comical though, so we enjoy it. Careful now, that's a form of impersonation. It's like if I were to go around claiming you are Chribba's alt. I'm not sure why you get your jollies off making such claims, but all it does is make you look weaker. Yet another diversionary tactic so you don't have to try to form a counterpoint.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4051
|
Posted - 2015.10.30 23:39:10 -
[96] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Can't say I'm upset at all really. I could also care less what you think of wardecs. Nice try though. You could care less? So you do care at least a little then? You certainly seem upset. Leto Thule wrote:Also, everyone knows Veers is you and you are Veers. But it's comical though, so we enjoy it. Careful now, that's a form of impersonation. It's like if I were to go around claiming you are Chribba's alt. I'm not sure why you get your jollies off making such claims, but all it does is make you look weaker. Yet another diversionary tactic so you don't have to try to form a counterpoint.
That's exactly what you would say if you were trying to deflect the actual point that you are defending a crazy man. Veers.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 00:06:30 -
[97] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:That's exactly what you would say if you were trying to deflect the actual point that you are defending a crazy man. Veers. I'm sure it is, troll. Nice ability to stay on topic.
Wardecs should definitely be nerfed, as they support easy gameplay (which you like, as you hate challenge) and prevent the existence of varieties of playstyle being pursued by highsec corporations.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4054
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 00:08:22 -
[98] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:That's exactly what you would say if you were trying to deflect the actual point that you are defending a crazy man. Veers. I'm sure it is, troll.
Said the troll.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 00:10:57 -
[99] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:That's exactly what you would say if you were trying to deflect the actual point that you are defending a crazy man. Veers. I'm sure it is, troll. Said the troll.
Incorrect.
Why is it you hate being challenged in games and feel the need to spend all of your time attacking and insulting people? You realise that's not the best way to pro e the guy in your OP wrong...
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Mag's
the united
20656
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 00:23:09 -
[100] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Why is it you hate being challenged in games and feel the need to spend all of your time attacking and insulting people? You must have an endless supply of irony. I'll admit I'm rather impressed.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 00:26:54 -
[101] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Why is it you hate being challenged in games and feel the need to spend all of your time attacking and insulting people? You must have an endless supply of irony. I'll admit I'm rather impressed. If you say so
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4054
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 01:57:11 -
[102] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:That's exactly what you would say if you were trying to deflect the actual point that you are defending a crazy man. Veers. I'm sure it is, troll. Said the troll. Incorrect. Why is it you hate being challenged in games and feel the need to spend all of your time attacking and insulting people? You realise that's not the best way to pro e the guy in your OP wrong...
I feel like Spock in the star trek reboot when the other dudes are trying to provoke him into flipping out. Dude, you don't phase me, everyone here knows your full of crap. The only toll here is you, and I must admit I'm flattered to have taken up so much of your attention.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 02:15:57 -
[103] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:I feel like Spock in the star trek reboot when the other dudes are trying to provoke him into flipping out. Dude, you don't phase me, everyone here knows your full of crap. The only toll here is you, and I must admit I'm flattered to have taken up so much of your attention. I'm glad I don't phase you since my goal is to talk about the game, not wind up other players. You're the one who keeps ignoring the discussion points to insult me (also, let's face it, you started the thread to troll a guy). Everyone here can "know" what they want, it's irrelevant to me. Fact of the matter is, you support easy, challenge-free gameplay and I support balance and varied group playstyles. You barely even attempted to make a counterpoint before you started slinging attacks around so I take that to mean you have no relevant opinions on the matter.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4055
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 03:05:23 -
[104] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Leto Thule wrote:I feel like Spock in the star trek reboot when the other dudes are trying to provoke him into flipping out. Dude, you don't phase me, everyone here knows your full of crap. The only toll here is you, and I must admit I'm flattered to have taken up so much of your attention. I'm glad I don't phase you since my goal is to talk about the game, not wind up other players. You're the one who keeps ignoring the discussion points to insult me (also, let's face it, you started the thread to troll a guy). Everyone here can "know" what they want, it's irrelevant to me. Fact of the matter is, you support easy, challenge-free gameplay and I support balance and varied group playstyles. You barely even attempted to make a counterpoint before you started slinging attacks around so I take that to mean you have no relevant opinions on the matter.
Please show me a single time I have ever said I don't like challenge. You are the one advocating carebear land, not me.
Edit:
Speaking of challenge, how about you come to the next thunderdome competition? Ill show you how much I enjoy challenges personally. Of course I know you wont come, but hey, the invite is there.
My vision of EVE is full of danger, hard times, and meaningful victories.
Your version of EVE is a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener" while mining away with no danger, no point other than to print ISK, and the challenge of "running" a high sec industry corp? Be still my heart. All the excitement is killing me.
Lets not forget, we must all stand up for the nutbags that think space pirates are pedophiles. Because you defend those people. Because thats the right thing to do.
Come to thunderdome, Lucas. Show me you are up for "challenge".
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25582
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 06:29:03 -
[105] - Quote
Denial, not just a river in Africa
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 09:08:53 -
[106] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Please show me a single time I have ever said I don't like challenge. All the times you push for keeping broken wardec mechanics you are pushing for easy challenge-free gameplay.
Leto Thule wrote:You are the one advocating carebear land, not me. No I'm not. Not at one point have I suggested anythign for the sort. Wardecs should even still exist, they should just follow a normal risk rward curve where you get more rewards for going after people that are more capable of fighting back, and less by going after rookies that can't fight back. They should also be limited enough that wardeccers have to choose between targets, not go after everyone. CCP knows this and undoubtedly will make changes before too long.
Leto Thule wrote:Speaking of challenge, how about you come to the next thunderdome competition? Ill show you how much I enjoy challenges personally. Of course I know you wont come, but hey, the invite is there. No, I won't, because I don't enjoy the things you enjoy. The great thing about EVE is you can be challenged in a variety of playstyles, there's not just one way to play. You like shooting ships I like crushing numbers, building ships and trading, and flying logistics in fleets..
Leto Thule wrote:My vision of EVE is full of danger, hard times, and meaningful victories.
Your version of EVE is a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener" while mining away with no danger, no point other than to print ISK, and the challenge of "running" a high sec industry corp? Be still my heart. All the excitement is killing me. No, your version of EVE is one where only your playstyle is any fun, while you fly around one-shotting rookies and fapping over your killboard. Mine is one where there's a wide variety of playstyles each with their own challenges and barriers. I certainly won't be running a high sec industry corp because I don't live in highsec, but someone running one should be an option.
Leto Thule wrote:Lets not forget, we must all stand up for the nutbags that think space pirates are pedophiles. Because you defend those people. Because thats the right thing to do. I'd stand up for him long before I stood up for you.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4056
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 09:35:00 -
[107] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Standard Lucas Kell post with too many quotes for the forum
Fapping to my killboard? Wow there is a fantastically disgusting thought, and now you are tossing insults around. Getting upset are we? Anyone who knows me here knows I give zero f***s about my killboard. I am only interested in having a good time. One shotting rookies? Nope, cant say I have ever done that (well, not on purpose anyhow).
I respect the number crunching aspect, and good on you for it. I am not smart enough to do that, always been pretty horrific at math, and after looking up what the "pros" do to manage their production stuff, well lets just say ill leave my spreadsheets at work where they belong.
But thats not why you wont fight in thunderdome... you are scared to lose a ship. You are one of those guys who still hasnt figured out that ships ARE ammo, and if you had, you wouldnt feel the need to make such a freakin fuss about a noob losing a ship and that somehow being "bad" for player retention. I am PROOF that being wrecked keeps a player in the game, buddy. Not the other way around.
You want people to set their own barriers? Ok, thats great, and a valuable aspect of the game. However- it does not grant them the immunity from how others want to play. How can you say that its OK for a new player indy corp to do whatever THEY want, but a wardec corp needs to be toned down? PERSONALLY - I dont like the 100+ wardecs at a time corps. I feel that most likely thats just an excuse for hub campers to chill out on the Jita undock and blap stuff. But there are people who play that way, and they make their ISKies from it. They are entitled to their game style as well as anyone else.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6921
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 13:26:11 -
[108] - Quote
Leto Thule wrote:Fapping to my killboard? Wow there is a fantastically disgusting thought, and now you are tossing insults around. Getting upset are we? Anyone who knows me here knows I give zero f***s about my killboard. I am only interested in having a good time. One shotting rookies? Nope, cant say I have ever done that (well, not on purpose anyhow). Not meant to be an insult, just an observation. Yes, you are interestes in having a good time. I'm interested in a variety of playstyles having a good time
Leto Thule wrote:I respect the number crunching aspect, and good on you for it. I am not smart enough to do that, always been pretty horrific at math, and after looking up what the "pros" do to manage their production stuff, well lets just say ill leave my spreadsheets at work where they belong. I've always been horrible at combat hence my reluctance to join in on a thunderdome.
Leto Thule wrote:But thats not why you wont fight in thunderdome... you are scared to lose a ship. You are one of those guys who still hasnt figured out that ships ARE ammo, and if you had, you wouldnt feel the need to make such a freakin fuss about a noob losing a ship and that somehow being "bad" for player retention. I am PROOF that being wrecked keeps a player in the game, buddy. Not the other way around. See, here you are making multiple assumptions. First the ludicrous idea that I'm scared of losing a ship. Why would I be scared? I avoid it, sure, but I've got a ludicrous amount of ISK and I've made the "ships are ammo" comparison myself on several occasions. I have no problem losing ships, I just have no interest in the style of play you are interested in.
You're also making the assumption that I think losses are bad for retention. That's wrong again. Losses are an integral part of the game. The problem I see is that in highsec there are veteran players who take the easy targets to avoid their own losses (like 99% kb efficiencies) at the expense of several styles of play. I want to see varied styles of play and losses from all of them. Yes, NPCs need to be tougher as part of that based on the level of the activity, trading also needs a heck of a lot more risk and cost, and things like wardecs need to be looked at so soft targets are less rewarding than capable ones.
Leto Thule wrote:You want people to set their own barriers? Ok, thats great, and a valuable aspect of the game. However- it does not grant them the immunity from how others want to play. How can you say that its OK for a new player indy corp to do whatever THEY want, but a wardec corp needs to be toned down? PERSONALLY - I dont like the 100+ wardecs at a time corps. I feel that most likely thats just an excuse for hub campers to chill out on the Jita undock and blap stuff. But there are people who play that way, and they make their ISKies from it. They are entitled to their game style as well as anyone else. It's manly because their wardeccers gameplay style is at the expense of whole varieties of playstyle. By being able to wardec hundreds of groups and go after soft targets they don;t just make it tough, they make it impossible for other gameplay styles to thrive in groups. Decently sized highsec corporations should not be for combat characters only.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Noragen Neirfallas
Rabble Inc.
Rabble Alliance
2235
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 13:36:49 -
[109] - Quote
Fapping to a kill board... brb
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
|
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
723
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 15:03:48 -
[110] - Quote
I don't want to see a perfectly safe highsec. But when I see veteran players hiding behind CONCORD, paying a small fee for the privilege of using casual and clueless players as clay pigeons, I can't shake the feeling that something is wrong.
We keep hearing how dark and dangerous EVE is, but it is really only dark and dangerous when you play a single account. Alts and multiboxing allow for the mitigation of risk and consequences to the point of irrelevance.
You have to look at people who've really learned how to exploit the wardec system, to see that there's a problem. For someone like me who only plays one account at a time, a solo wardec is in fact a risky endeavour. But I recently watched one guy and his band of alts rip through a bunch of cookie cutter PvE corps, inflicting billions in damage via kills on industrial ships with the clever use of innocuous-looking shell corporations, which he dropped his well known combat toons into at the last moment. There was no risk or challenge for him. |
Leto Thule
Everywhere and Terrible
4060
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 15:15:10 -
[111] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:I don't want to see a perfectly safe highsec. But when I see veteran players hiding behind CONCORD, paying a small fee for the privilege of using casual and clueless players as clay pigeons, I can't shake the feeling that something is wrong.
We keep hearing how dark and dangerous EVE is, but it is really only dark and dangerous when you play a single account. Alts and multiboxing allow for the mitigation of risk and consequences to the point of irrelevance.
You have to look at people who've really learned how to exploit the wardec system, to see that there's a problem. For someone like me who only plays one account at a time, a solo wardec is in fact a risky endeavour. But I recently watched one guy and his band of alts rip through a bunch of cookie cutter PvE corps, inflicting billions in damage via kills on industrial ships with the clever use of innocuous-looking shell corporations, which he dropped his well known combat toons into at the last moment. There was no risk or challenge for him.
Perhaps not, but I see that situation as the wardeccer IS the challenge for his targets. He is filling a position of content provider.
Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
|
ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
197
|
Posted - 2015.10.31 21:22:45 -
[112] - Quote
Quote: 2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
Closed.
~ISD Buldath
Interstellar Services Department
Support, Training and Resources Division
Lt. Commander
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