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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.11.28 07:55:00 -
[1]
The acquisition of Tech 2 blueprints will be done through a new class of agents, called research agents. You tally up research points in specific fields depending on the agent level and your own research skills (these are all new skills, 17 in total). These new skills will not be on the market, but instead they are given out by agents as rewards for specific missions. The blueprints themselves will be introduced by the dev team and given out according to research point count (there is some chance element involved also, so the people with the most research points accumulated will not always get the blueprints, but they'll have a better chance). To produce the tech 2 items, you will also need new production skills and these will also be given out by agents.
The new research agents are distributed across EVE as follows:
Faction:
Amarr Empire 31
Caldari State 73
Gallente Federation 88
Minmatar Republic 48
The Servant Sisters of EVE 2
Thukker Tribe 8
Region:
Aridia 1
Derelik 2
Devoid 1
Domain 30
Essence 18
Everyshore 11
Genesis 8
Great Wildlands 1
Heimatar 7
Kador 12
Khanid 2
Kor-Azor 4
Lonetrek 26
Metropolis 30
Molden Heath 1
Placid 13
Sinq Laison 11
Solitude 3
Syndicate 3
Tash-Murkon 21
The Bleak Lands 6
The Citadel 15
The Forge 18
Verge Vendor 6
The new research skills are all Rank 5, all have Science Skill at level 5 as primary skill required and as all science skills they have intelligence as primary attribute and memory as secondary.
Here's the list with the secondary skill requirements:
Amarrian Starship Engineering
Mechanic 5
Caldari Starship Engineering
Mechanic 5
Electromagnetic Physics
Cybernetics 5
Electronic Engineering
Cybernetics 5
Gallentian Starship Engineering
Mechanic 5
Graviton Physics
Engineering 5
High Energy Physics
Engineering 5
Hydromagnetic Physics
Engineering 5
Laser Physics
Engineering 5
Mechanical Engineering
Mechanic 5
Minmatar Starship Engineering
Mechanic 5
Molecular Engineering
Mechanic 5
Nanite Engineering
Cybernetics 5
Nuclear Physics
Engineering 3
Plasma Physics
Engineering 5
Quantum Physics
Engineering 5
Rocket Science
Mechanic 5
As you can see, lots of training time ahead... so get an early start.
Why doesnt Curse agents give out anything special like the rest?
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.11.28 08:06:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 28/11/2003 08:10:27
The pirate factions will not be getting research agents as of now. There's been alot of discussion on the topic, but PapaSmurf seems to have made up his mind on the subject.
I personally don't mind, but I can relate why some players feel left out due to this.
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Lilan Kahn
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Posted - 2003.11.28 09:43:00 -
[3]
*sends corp mate of to slave*
 Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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The Beast
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Posted - 2003.11.28 10:18:00 -
[4]
This is gonna be nasty.. hope everyone wants to spend the next 6 months working there agent into the ground.
"If God Posted His Second Coming Here I Would Ban His Ass For Being Off Topic ! :)" |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.11.28 13:43:00 -
[5]
Quote:
This is gonna be nasty.. hope everyone wants to spend the next 6 months working there agent into the ground.
Somehow Im not sure you ahve the righ idea about how this works.
If they introduce the new patch and researcha gents "now" i will have immediate access to a good number of research agents of reasoanble quality.
Even our "builder" guy who never really leaves the station can get an ok one with his faction...
No need to do missions at all.
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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.11.28 17:37:00 -
[6]
This is retarded tho. Thukker tribe is a pirate corp yes? I wanna know the reason why Angel Cartel wont get it. There should be a special bonus for having a 0.0 non-empire agent with a pirate corporation. Again, its another nerf for the pirates.
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Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.11.28 18:46:00 -
[7]
Thukker tribe isn't really a pirate faction, they're somewhere in between. The story says something about them being suspected of ebil things, but concord has never really been able to catch them doing it. Blablabla.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.11.28 20:11:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zyrla Bladestorm on 28/11/2003 20:12:46
aye thukker are just the bad boys of the republic :P (think how say intaki syndicate is seperate to gallente federation)
they are one of those that never really ceased war vs the empire I think ? thus operating partly outside the law and friends with some pirates
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.11.29 00:03:00 -
[9]
It sucks how the intaki syndicate is semi-criminal and I hate CCP for making it so.
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Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.11.29 01:03:00 -
[10]
Quote:
This is retarded tho. Thukker tribe is a pirate corp yes? I wanna know the reason why Angel Cartel wont get it. There should be a special bonus for having a 0.0 non-empire agent with a pirate corporation. Again, its another nerf for the pirates.
Awwwhhhh, those poor-poor pirate people are getting the shaft again ! - lol
This will teach ya to become a pirate, huh ? - lol
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
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Tank CEO
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Posted - 2003.11.29 04:43:00 -
[11]
Actually, I just found out from a GM it was suppost to be like this. You guys will be getting Tech 2 bps, while we will be getting boosters and drugs from pirate corporations. Drugs will be more profitable ya. SO =P Im happy I became a pirate.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.11.29 08:05:00 -
[12]
Quote:
No need to do missions at all.
Morkt, you do need to do missions, since you get those new skills as rewards from normal agents.
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Lola
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Posted - 2003.11.29 09:47:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Quote:
No need to do missions at all.
Morkt, you do need to do missions, since you get those new skills as rewards from normal agents.
Buy the skills.
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Sig rented by Drethen Nerevitas. |
Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.11.29 10:25:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 29/11/2003 10:53:01
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 29/11/2003 10:25:15
Quote:
Buy the skills.
Good idea. Silly me. 
I hope they make those skillbook rewards rare,
and prevent one player from getting more than 1 of each.
But you still need to make missions in order to gain access to higher lvl research agents, and also to receive that BP mission. And only about 1 in every 30 mission is rated as important and gives you a noticeable gain in standings.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.29 12:30:00 -
[15]
"And only about 1 in every 30 mission is rated as important and gives you a noticeable gain in standings."
... I think those 'important' missions were supposed to alter the factions, while corporate and personal standings change even making the 'small' missions? So even simple missions should allow you to gain access to high level research agents of the same corporation... o.O;
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Jubeli
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Posted - 2003.11.29 13:46:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Actually, I just found out from a GM it was suppost to be like this. You guys will be getting Tech 2 bps, while we will be getting boosters and drugs from pirate corporations. Drugs will be more profitable ya. SO =P Im happy I became a pirate.
You are welcome to Empire space also to get the guys trying to get T2 stuff..
Drugs and boosters sounds like fun also though, specially if you aren't interested in manufacturing.. Make your isk on drugs, buy T2 and let the guys being good at it make it for ya.. |
Kunming
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Posted - 2003.11.29 16:56:00 -
[17]
Drugs and boosters... Hmm this sounds good!
Now the player based economy is getting somewhere IMO...
Intercepting since BETA |
Eltigre
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Posted - 2003.11.30 00:38:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Actually, I just found out from a GM it was suppost to be like this. You guys will be getting Tech 2 bps, while we will be getting boosters and drugs from pirate corporations. Drugs will be more profitable ya. SO =P Im happy I became a pirate.
Ah, that's it ! Yet another jublient drug-runner out to corrput our kids at the public schools - lol ! WTG, Tank-man ! You rock ! - lol
SWEET routinely sells BPC's in Sing Laison and Essence Regions. |
Missing Person
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Posted - 2003.11.30 11:20:00 -
[19]
seriusly... pirates will still be able to get them they will just use recruit insiders and get bp's from empire space and take it out (maybe will take a while but they will do it) |
FileCop AI
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Posted - 2003.11.30 21:26:00 -
[20]
Edited by: FileCop AI on 30/11/2003 21:29:14
Heh, agree with Tank on that one - Devs seem to hate all big alliances and won't give us ****. Just look at roids, agents (they don't give anything, no implants or anything), tech 2. We are completely left out and why? Just because we figured out how to play this game? Thanks..
Oh, and you wrote it's a "nerf for the pirates". Nope, it's for all of us outside empire space. Don't think you're special ;)
FileCop AI of MASS
Co-CEO |
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.02 12:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Ruffles on 02/12/2003 12:41:09
Yes, the market needs some attention to help resolve some issues.
However, if not handled delicately, this has high potential to bring around only the same monopolies as the miner 2 situation of the past.
Monopolies aren't ever good for any economy.
With blueprints 'handouts' being controlled by the development team, there won't ever be a sense of achievement in the effort you put in, like there is with other skills mostly related to combat. You are putting in time and effort into your research and building skills, and leaving it to pot-luck if you will get something.
I hate to say it but it has the potentital to make some people exceptionally rich, and no one have a chance to compete. If not handled carefully it will be as bad as an overflowing market...
Yes I know, comments like this will get me flames, but if no one ever brings up the potential downsides, then who will notice them?
Edit: Anyone explaining to people at the start in the tutorials how these research agents will work, and how you obtain them? It might be important to people.
The big downside I personally, is that everything seems to be still revolved around an NPC system of dumb-tasks. I think most people are somewhat objected to this because there is no player interaction in contant dumb-task running in an MMOG.
Are you somewhat over-NPC'ing things, and taking away the ability for peoples random breakthroughs in areas they work in lots?
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Darth Tom
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Posted - 2003.12.02 13:09:00 -
[22]
Quote:
The big downside I personally, is that everything seems to be still revolved around an NPC system of dumb-tasks. I think most people are somewhat objected to this because there is no player interaction in contant dumb-task running in an MMOG.
Are you somewhat over-NPC'ing things, and taking away the ability for peoples random breakthroughs in areas they work in lots?
I thought this as well, but then looking at the bigger picture:
- You can't have players running these things until you have player property, player alliances controlling space, etc.
- You can't have that until you have the management structure in place for managing an alliance (think - like a big corp, at it's most simplistic)
- You can't have that until you have a working faction system, so you can easily manage an alliance's friends and enemies, and manage control of resources etc.
- And you can't have that until a working faction system has been implemented and tested - and the easiest way for that is to drop it in place for the NPCs.
Don't think of this as the final solution - more a stepping stone to enable bigger and better things further down the line.
Think - player alliance agents. Player alliance missions.
Want to join an alliance? Curry favour by doing missions for their agents?
Lots of possibilities there - but the basics need to be in place and balanced first.
The trick is - Tech2 will galvanise interest in EVE. CCP's challenge is to respond to that with quick followups to introduce the rest of the puzzle.
Cheers,
TOM
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.12.02 13:24:00 -
[23]
hooray for drugs!
Unfortunately, I'm gonna have to kill a lot of citizens before any pirate corps will have me...
.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.02 18:50:00 -
[24]
So are you honestly saying this isn't the end, its a start to more Agent missions?
If Player controlled or not, its still an NPC with a very very very unimmersive and dull task for a player to perform multiple of. Even player owned ones will just set massive slave tasks, at the end of which they will very likely stil say: "Get lost, we have a fine full alliance kthksbye"
You don't seriously think that people took this game on to play npc missions all the time? And decaying factions require you to keep doing them to maintain the faction ratings??
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Darth Tom
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Posted - 2003.12.03 12:08:00 -
[25]
Quote:
So are you honestly saying this isn't the end, its a start to more Agent missions?
No, I'm not. I'm saying that this is one piece in the puzzle to allow things like player owned property and alliances to work properly.
Quote:
If Player controlled or not, its still an NPC with a very very very unimmersive and dull task for a player to perform multiple of. Even player owned ones will just set massive slave tasks, at the end of which they will very likely stil say: "Get lost, we have a fine full alliance kthksbye"
Sometimes I think the biggest holdup to EVE is not the whining, or the bugs, but the sheer lack of imagination of the player base. 
Here's on example of what might be possible:
I am in the CA. We are out in the sticks - lots of resources, but no agents - therefore no Tech 2 or 3.
So, I want some Tech2 BPs. All those agent runners in Empire space have no easy access to rare loot or minerals.
I set a series of agent missions where someone can bring me the specific bits I need to build an Elite Vigil. I reward them with cash, rare pirate loot, or maybe when they've finished I'll give them a mining pass to a Bistot field in Curse for a week.
Just one *example* of what *could* be possible if there was a fixed and working faction and distribution system.
And, I know some smartarse is thinking "But why would I trust you?" - who trusts their agents at the moment? Why do people do 300+ plus missions for Level 3 agents?
Because they want an eventual payout that will benefit them, and give them a financial edge over everyone else.
If you're an agent runner in Empire space, the lure of doing some missions for me in Curse and getting, say, a pirate loot module worth 5M on the market would be a good enough incentive.
Quote:
You don't seriously think that people took this game on to play npc missions all the time? And decaying factions require you to keep doing them to maintain the faction ratings??
I mentioned looking at the bigger picture, and what this change will *enable* - and instead you've picked out one or two examples and painted them as the only future.
Try reading what I said again, and thinking about what impact a working faction and distribution system can have on other areas of the game.
Cheers,
TOM
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2003.12.03 12:49:00 -
[26]
Drugs and booster are nice.
Now tell me when will we see them July 04?
btw npc chaining is nerfed as well with the new targeting system.
basically 0.0 will be heavily nerfed.
sometimes I really don't understand ccp's way of thinking.
--
The worst thing you can do when suggesting a solution to a problem is to provide alternatives, people end up arguing the alternatives instead of implementing the fix. |
Ghandi
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Posted - 2003.12.03 14:34:00 -
[27]
Hey can i ask a question, giving out module bps is one thing but what ships, especially the 2 BS original BP's i have bought within the last 3 months, both cost me about 1.2 billion each and ive researched them up to ME5, as such ive not come nowhere close to breaking even and wont for another few months probably.
Will i be able to research these original Bs bps up to tech lvl 2??? or how will the BS bps work??
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.03 17:55:00 -
[28]
Quote:
But you still need to make missions in order to gain access to higher lvl research agents, and also to receive that BP mission. And only about 1 in every 30 mission is rated as important and gives you a noticeable gain in standings.
You can gain faction by killing hostile-factions NPCs also.
Indeed with the halving of all standings its quite viable to do this especially for low-combat-ready research/refine type chars. Stay in relevant empire spce and hit the frigates and IOI spawns for faction gain.
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Helison
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Posted - 2003.12.03 18:22:00 -
[29]
Quote:
You can gain faction by killing hostile-factions NPCs also.
Not in Castor, as there are no derived standing changes except for important missions. 
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.03 19:39:00 -
[30]
this really does suck... also all the agents that you have now unless they are research are useless if you want tech 2???
thats just great eh? all those days/weeks etc doing agents all for nothing if you really wanted to go after research/tech stuff.. 
and what about out side the empire... this does suck.. and like others said until all the player owned stuff comes in i dont see how they can fix this
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
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Helison
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Posted - 2003.12.03 20:00:00 -
[31]
Quote:
this really does suck... also all the agents that you have now unless they are research are useless if you want tech 2???
No, they arenŠt useless! You need agents to get research skills and other Tech2-related stuff, which you need to build Tech2 items.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.12.03 20:41:00 -
[32]
these research agents... Are they going to be current agents 'converted' to research agents? Is it an extra service? Are they just new agents?
.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.03 21:09:00 -
[33]
see if they are new agents that means nobody has one, right now or nobody can start one even now... so all your other agents might be good for other stuff but not for research...
not that i care i really rather have the combat agent and keep on blowing up npc's and stuff as thats more fun for me 
though if i had another account i would probably do research stuff as well, its just that pvp over time will just get better and better... with tech2 and all the player owned stuff 
btw it will not hurt by doing some research agents if its possible to focus on some specific, that would help out the corp a lot 
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Helison
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Posted - 2003.12.03 21:12:00 -
[34]
Quote:
these research agents... Are they going to be current agents 'converted' to research agents? Is it an extra service? Are they just new agents?
Some existing agents are "converted" and some agents are newly created. There are also some "normal" agents new on the list.
The research agents have only the "research" service.
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.12.03 21:58:00 -
[35]
its still not fair, and read my post in the bp sticky...
the best way is team work, and working with agents if the dev team thinks that its the only way so far...
team work will work a lot better and its logical, they wouldnt have to be even corp members, just some form of interface would work out well, and i really am pushing for online activity to count, and not just going offline and showing up online with a bp...
some form of online activity/interaction or some way to speed up the points etc... would be the way to go...
and to go advanced other players with different high skills should be put into the research as testers and skills individuals who know and have exp with that item...
thats how it is IRL, you dont just have some guys working in a lab and coming out with a finished process...
there are many steps and other people that work and add to the project. 
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.05 11:26:00 -
[36]
Quote:
...but the sheer lack of imagination of the player base
Thanks for the personal comment. Perhaps you would like to go read the reams of suggestions I have put forward in the idea lab ;)
Yes I understand your point of view, and I am countering the examples you gave me for what you might want to use them for.
I still say that the end result is someone running incredibly dull tasks which lack much in the way of creativeness, intellegence requirements, or anything at all.
Run Goods A to point B. Go to point C destroy ship D.
Not many alterations are there?
Hell even linking agent missions to other requisites would be nice:
"I have this this thing you brought back from that last mission. I don't know what it is, but I think I know someone that might. Go visit my friend XXX in system YYY.
Get to system YYY, get this new special quest agent, do something for them. Research, build, hunt, scavenge, something at all. Complete and move back to other agent, perhaps for this to have a longer story and progress over time."
The point is that they are incredibly limited, and dull, read the rest into it...
Others had given the suggestion before that they be used to hand out assasination missions also, whereby someones agent could mention a hit had been put out on XXX person. Did you wanna try to claim it, start by looking here. I think this was a more viable use of them to be perfectly honest.
Also put in to the equation the con of being destroyed for entering those systems, even if doing 'alliance' agent missions. People would stand to loose out their precious cargo, and still see no reward...
There are as many cons as I think you are saying there are pros. Yes, people hate me because I focus on those, but if I don't who will?
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Fausto
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Posted - 2003.12.05 11:52:00 -
[37]
Big alliances are not left out at all. All you need to do is mine enough bistot, get mega and trade it for tech 2 items with mission runners. If noone will trade with you then that's your problem
______
<brainpodder> |
Darth Tom
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Posted - 2003.12.05 11:56:00 -
[38]
Quote:
Quote:
...but the sheer lack of imagination of the player base
Thanks for the personal comment. Perhaps you would like to go read the reams of suggestions I have put forward in the idea lab ;)
Forgive me - a poor choice of words. From your post, it seemed like you were focussing on a very small set of negatives to a very limited example, rather than looking at the options this would open up.
Quote:
Yes I understand your point of view, and I am countering the examples you gave me for what you might want to use them for.
But they're just limited examples, off the top of my head. Look how much could be opened up in the game if we have working faction and distribution systems!
Quote:
I still say that the end result is someone running incredibly dull tasks which lack much in the way of creativeness, intellegence requirements, or anything at all.
For NPC agents, yes. However, as I said, look at that at being a stepping stone to something else.
That's where my comment about lack of imagination comes in. Sure, there'll be hundreds of people who would want to set dull player missions.
However, there would also be a handful of clued people who would want to set interesting, worthwhile missions. If you want allies, or new recruits, or just stuff, you don't ask people to do drudge work for you. You set them complex, involving tasks - if they're more likely to do it, you're more likely to get what you want.
Quote:
Hell even linking agent missions to other requisites would be nice:
ISTR either Zrakor or Papa Smurf saying this sort of thing is already in game (in a broken fashion) but will be much more common, post patch.
Quote:
The point is that they are incredibly limited, and dull, read the rest into it...
Only based on what you know or see at the moment. After the next patch, agent missions will get more complex - there's more stuff to do, to get, standing becomes more important, teamwork becomes more important.
My main issue, though is that that is a side effect - what CCP are trying to do here is get a working faction system, and a working, scaleable method of item distribution.
Once that's in place, the scene is set for management of alliances and player owned toys.
And that's what everyone is wanting, right?
Quote:
Also put in to the equation the con of being destroyed for entering those systems, even if doing 'alliance' agent missions. People would stand to loose out their precious cargo, and still see no reward...
No - because there would be a working faction system.
Think - by the time I can set a player mission for my alliance, I should be able to:
- set an alliance wide faction standing for those who take up my missions
- boost that alliance wide faction standing if they do, or do multiple missions
- or make them KOS with a low alliance standing if they screw up
Quote:
There are as many cons as I think you are saying there are pros. Yes, people hate me because I focus on those, but if I don't who will?
I think you're being overly dramatic talking about hate
However, I do think you're focussing on a small amount of short term negatives, without thinking about what this will enable to happen in EVE.
There are too many areas of EVE that have been nerfed because of short-termist complaints. People want it all, and they want it now, instead of waiting a while for something truly spectacular.
Cheers,
TOM
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Ghandi
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Posted - 2003.12.06 12:58:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Ghandi on 06/12/2003 12:59:50
Quote:
Hey can i ask a question, giving out module bps is one thing but what ships, especially the 2 BS original BP's i have bought within the last 3 months, both cost me about 1.2 billion each and ive researched them up to ME5, as such ive not come nowhere close to breaking even and wont for another few months probably.
Quote:
Will i be able to research these original Bs bps up to tech lvl 2??? or how will the BS bps work??
Can anyone answer this plz??
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Slipaz
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Posted - 2003.12.07 22:24:00 -
[40]
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