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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:46:00 -
[1]
hey, not a whine, more a warning. As you have probably guessed by now these guys (Brutally Clever Empire) didn't honour a 1v1. Possibly an error, the second guy only joined in right at the end and the original guy fed me a story about it beign a mistake while his alliance members smack talked me telling me to stop whining. He genuinely seemed quite sorry though apparently not sorry enough to refund me, though to be fair he would have won the duel any way. So ya, trust these guys at your own risk, thanks.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:50:00 -
[2]
Oh and as another note, this seemed to be fairly accepted behaviour by his alliance though as I said, he himself seemed rather apologetic.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:52:00 -
[3]
so I see one of these on the forum every other day but I don't see posts about drinking and driving on the out of pod forum . . . I wonder why that is. Now people will reply to this saying because I enjoy a good 1v1 but I'm sure people enjoy a good D&D (no not dungeons and dragons) but see when you D&D people die and when you 1v1 there is a good chance you die (from devious methods) So quit Drinking and Driving and quit 1v1'ng 
Sig Nerf - Cortes
I declare war on ISD!
You don't stand a chance  -Karl
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:54:00 -
[4]
Just to confirm, I was there at the time. I warped in cloaked in an Arazu to see what I could kill, then noticed the 1v1 offer and acceptance so I stayed cloaked to watch. The 1v1 which was a Myrmidon vs Raven was then turned into a Myrm vs Raven + Drake from the raven pilots corp.
Totally lame.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:54:00 -
[5]
I actually find the majority of 1v1's I have are honoured, this is a rare occurence for me. Duno, info might be helpful for some considering I'm flagging up an entire alliance.
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Katamarino
Blazing Angels
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.28 18:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Katamarino on 28/12/2006 19:02:10
Edited by: Katamarino on 28/12/2006 18:57:04
He's right - the somewhat new-to-pvp player wasn't watching the instructions to local, and there was no time to make sure he understood in alliance chat as Kehmour rushed straight in to attack before we could get the other guy out of the belt. He hit Kehmour with a single volley of fire just as he was being finished off anyway - he hadn't a hope at this point.
Despite the fact of this pilots unfortunate mistake at the end (yes, mistake, Kehmour was already well into structure and soundy beaten at this stage, so there would have been no point or need for anyone else to get involved, even if we *were* that lame!), Kehmour has not been compensated. The hour long diatribe of smack we endured from his arrival in the system, through the duel to what I hope will be his eventual departure (he's still sitting here proclaiming his general superiority to absolutely everyone) is considered pennance enough on our part. Noone should have to endure this..
If you don't hear from me again, my brain has imploded from local. I think that anyone who has ever actually dealt with BRUCE knows very well how we conduct ourselves - we aren't worried in the least about an innocent mistake that Mr Smacktalk here was always going to blow up It goes without saying that the pilot was made aware of his mistake, and from Kehmours own post you can see that he realises it.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.28 19:05:00 -
[7]
Re-reading the chat logs I am actually more convinced this was planned. One of them apparently couldn't help but drop this in:
Gallena Starblade > quick question, why would you come here, smack us, then EXPECT to only fight one?
clearly hinting that they never intended a 1v1.
As for me smacking them before hand, I'd hardly call it smack, more responding to their abuse with 1v1 offers, each declined up until the forementioned event.
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Katamarino
Blazing Angels
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.28 19:13:00 -
[8]
I might point out that that line was taken from a completely different conversation. I should also point out that Kehmor announced his arrival in local with the line:
Kehmor > you bunch of *****s still here then?
Things went downhill on his part from there.
If anyone actually cares enough about our Drama Queen here and his demise, please feel free to get in touch with me and I will provide full logs. Otherwise, this will be our last comment on things for now, we have better things to do than take notice of his baiting!
Katamarino, Blazing Angels, [BRUCE]
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.28 19:30:00 -
[9]
That was in refrence to another group of people with whom I am good friends.
I too am more than willing to provide complete logs to anyone who actually cares.
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Rico Naginata
Catalyst Reaction
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.28 21:09:00 -
[10]
i love katamarino
which means that YOU, kehmor, are WRONG!!
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
LOL UR PINK NOW |
Samirol
The Scope
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Posted - 2006.12.28 23:50:00 -
[11]
tbh, i only do 1v1s with pirates from now on since carebears and APs generally can't be trusted 
Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it?
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Friedrick Psitalon
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:08:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Friedrick Psitalon on 29/12/2006 00:13:11
 Originally by: Kehmor
I too am more than willing to provide complete logs to anyone who actually cares.
And no one does.... You already said yourself it wouldn't have mattered, and that a mistake occurred. As for Gallena's remark, I'd interpret it as "Anyone with two brain cells who smacks everyone in local should EXPECT to get mobbed."
The fact that you WEREN'T mobbed is actually rather complimentary to BRUCE. We have a very low tolerance for smacking maladroits.
Moving on....
The Dead Parrot Shoppe: always hiring the intelligent/mature, ubernoob or vet. Experience we can give you; brains, we can't. |
Zimroel
The Blackstone Group
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.29 00:24:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rico Naginata
i love katamarino
which means that YOU, kehmor, are WRONG!!
Nope, he has a legitmate complaint.
I was the other pilot involved in the 1v1. I'll now explain exactly how it panned out.
OP arrive in local and immediately started smacking us. I didn't make any post in local before our confrontation. OP gave loads of smack in local of how we were carebears, wouldn't fight 1v1 etc. I was at the station when he undocked and noticed he was in a bc: yeah, he's been playing 3 years and i've been playing 4 months but I'll happily take a bc on.
I warped to a roid belt with the intention of pretending to rat. OP warped tio the same belt (at 50-70km at a guess). OP was outside my scramble range so I didn't bother opening fire. OPasuggested we fight 1v1 - and I agreed. In the meantime one of my alliance members warped to the bel: I asked him to leave in local - abnd eventually he did (without ever firing at OP).
I spammed local telling my alliance mmebers not ot shoot OP - and to stay out of the belt. In the meantime OP MWDed from 60km to close range. This was good news for me - I wasn't at all concerned OP would win - but that he would manage to warp out. For reference, I was in a Raven (playing Eve ofr 4 months, he was in a Myrmidion playing since 2003).
OP then launched his drones and commenced firing on me. I started firing back. At some stage an alliance member warped in and locked both of us. I assumed he was spectating anf watching OP get raped by a "newbie". When OP got down to about 1/3 armour and I was still on full shields (I got bored and let my boosterrun nonstop as I had a ton of cap left) my alliabce member shot a vollry of missiles I'm not clear on ecaxt;y when he shot - as it doesn't show in my logs. OP subsequently died.#
Here;s what I agree with regarding the OP:
1. The fight was agreed tio be 1v1 - and it didn't end up as thatl, as some nub in my alliance fired a vlley ofmissile at the OP.
2. If a figh's agreed toi be 1v1 it SHOULD be 1v1.
Now, here's why I didn't pay the OP compensation:
1. As soon a he entered the system he smacktalked hen docked.
2. He was dead anyway: After dieing the OP accused me of cheating then stated that I would have won anyway.
3. OP thyen proceeeded to try a line of bull**** in local - claiming he was trying to move out of my nos range not to try to warp off. So why did he recall his T2 drones? When he fell to about half armour he recalled his dronex and started trying to run from me. If all he wanted to do was get out of nos range then recaling drones makes no sens.
4. He was screwed anyway. At best, 1 volley from a newbie in a cruiser can be counted as similar efect to 1 vollley of cruise missiles frome me. I have 7.5 second ROF on cruises - so even at the 1 km/s speeed OP claimed in local he had a LONG way to g - and would havedied anyway. If OP doesn't realise it already, usibng MWD to run from a missle user doesn't improve your survivability. Lest anyone is in mistake I was in no danger: I'd never dropped below 50% shields or 75% cap - and by time OP died I was running my booster fulltime and not dropping below 90% shield (why? becuase I wanted not to just beat him but aolso t demonstrate how being 3 years old doesn't entitle you to smacktalk "newbies").
6. OP accused ME of dishonouring the 1v1. NOTHING i did or said could encourage the belief I wanted someone to intervene: I never looked like losing, always looked liked winning and the LAST thing i wanted was someone else interfering and giving OP a reason to whine about being beaten by a "carebear".
Yes, the 1v1 WAS dishonoured. But it wasn't by my design - nor was it with my backing or encuragement. And the small amount of intervention that there was, had no effect on the result: OP was losibng fairand square (him armour tank and in hull, me shield-tank nd on over 90% with 75% cap left).
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kill0rbunny
Caldari
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2006.12.29 07:51:00 -
[14]
Some ship sploded. Two people on the killmail.
Nuff said.
Life's short. Don't waste time on such crap.
EVE-+NLINE Supporter of T+TALHELLDEATH |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar
The Paratwa Ka
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 29/12/2006 11:26:13
Quit whining, nobody cares!
Brutally Clever Empire, good job. It's always nice to see a good lesson being handed out to the local smacktard.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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HellsRazor
Caldari
FACTA NON VERBA
Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2006.12.29 11:26:00 -
[16]
You dishonor 1 v 1.. your LAME and need to go mine. I dont know about pilots that think they can PVP, but if you dishonor 1 v 1 you are showing it to those that acually can PVP your lame. Even pirates have honor, ransom for one. if pirates ransom people and they start killing you after you pay..wat happens? no one pays anymore. 1 V 1 is how you can say.."HEY, i might get ganked by you fudge packers...BUT, i can own you 1 v 1". no matter if you like it or not its away for pvpers to stand alone and represent.
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Rayvonuk
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.12.29 12:27:00 -
[17]
1 v 1 with strangers is a risky business.
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Gray Carmicheal
Wings of Redemption
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Posted - 2006.12.29 12:39:00 -
[18]
Honestly, you're lucky you didn't get more.
BRUCE has some damned good PVPers amongst their ranks, but they also have some serious issues (read: people) that need fixing. Nevertheless, respect for Zim.
And yeah, I constantly work around BRUCE, and a couple of my allies have been seriously blobbed by them. Frankly, I find it lame, but such is lowsec life.
This is, of course, my personal opinion which I'm entitled to. I also find other corps of the area's blobbing tactics extremely lame, but do what you have to to survive. At least they don't logoffski.
Me.
This Sig is Within Rules. :P
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:16:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kehmor on 29/12/2006 14:16:31
to answer a few points:
A) this so called smack is being played up by bruce a bit too much considering they were the ones who started the whole thing, I merely defended myself in what i believe was a very reasonable way though I'll admit I wasn't worried about hurting their feelings.
edit: Again, I will provide logs on demand
B) What I was trying to do is pretty irrelevent, why would I try to lie? I wasn't infact intending to warp out considering I was anking you fine when I could keep my duel repsrunning I.E. out of your nos range.
C) You probablywould have won anyway yes, but hey, guess we'll never know. As for your 7.5 RoF well I have 2 reppers with a 9 second cycle so...
D) The only thing worse than cheating in a 1v1 is trying to justify it while making no attempt to put things right. As I said in local, if I and a corp mate had done this we'd be out of PAK right now unless we had a very good reason and at the very least replaced the ship of our opponent. Now it doesn't really matter to me as it was a tech I and fairly cheaply fit battlecruiser; hardly a big loss. However I have no doubt by this point that your corporation and alliance take similar action in all its "1v1s"
E) Aodha you are jsut bitter that I was the best fleet leader BI ever had while you were at best a corp joke, stop trying to hi-jack this thread with personal insults at me.
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merc999
Caldari
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:48:00 -
[20]
Edited by: merc999 on 29/12/2006 14:54:29
I have been around BRUCE for a long time, since they started in fact, and although never in the alliance have flown with them many times, I know some of their members from before they were ever in the alliance it is a strange fact that because I have lived in the area I am friends with both BRUCE and some of their enemies/targets in the locale.
Now I am in a corps that BRUCE will try to kill whenever we enter system I can tell you the truth about BRUCE.
Bruce will defend their home against ANYONE, they weathered the storm that MC bought down on them, beat 9th fleet out of the area completely and even last night Turbulent underestimated them badly losing a number of battleships and command ships. They are orgainised and know what they are doing, and what they dont have exactly right they are learning fast
I dont believe that as an alliance BRUCE will condone a deliberatly dishonoured 1v1, If they were going to attack you as an alliance they would have used their tried and trusted tactic of dropping a huge blob on your ass...
  
Both Friedrick and Katamarino who have posted are trustworthy and honourable people, and I believe what they say. A MISTAKE was made by ONE pilot, and I also believe them when they say if you werent a smack talker, full of himself and his own importance they would have reimbursed.
perhaps a little more maturity on the OP's part wouldnt have led to this accident.
Just my personal view knowing some of those involved
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Shandling
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:57:00 -
[21]
Sit tight and drink plenty of fluids. (To fuel your tears)
I've called the waaahmbulance, it's on the way.
Sock Monkey Discussion
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
The Paratwa Ka
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.29 15:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 29/12/2006 15:15:12
Originally by: Kehmor
E) Aodha you are jsut bitter that I was the best fleet leader BI ever had while you were at best a corp joke, stop trying to hi-jack this thread with personal insults at me.
bwahaha!
My time in BI lasted about 8 months. First time around you were BANNED so I don't know where you get your opinion from. In that time I had a pretty good kill ratio of around 20:1. Second time around you REFUSED to fight on a number of occasions against Aegis Militia while the rest of us went into battle. People who actually matter know about my combat capabilities, I need prove nothing to them.
Great fleet commander? I saw no example of that, just an emo coward trying to cover it up by being a loud mouthed smacktard and promptly being removed from BI. I'm sure your enemies are already aware of this as they laugh at you.
The great fleet (e-peen) commander now resorting to forum whining. Tell me it isn't so...
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.29 15:37:00 -
[23]
Again aodha, this has what to do with this thread?
I'm not sure where people get this whole "lolol you are whining" thing from. I am merely saying that while many people find most alliances care a great deal for their reputation, BRUCE do not seem to restrict themselves by this. My opinion. I took a risk, and lost my ship and I am more than over it,you dont stay pvping in this game for three years if you can't take a ship loss in your stride I assure you.
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Hira'razhir
Minmatar
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:43:00 -
[24]
Aodha, its sad to see you repyling in this thread in such manners. Surely Kehmor is a fiery soul, and can smacktalk a little when treated with disrespect. But "emo coward"? As a founder and long time member of BL-IN, i can say that the most unntrue thing you can say about him. And yes, he was the best FC at the time he was there. So dont come here smacking him cause of some old disagreements, it makes you look pathetic. Get over it.
Hiza
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: merc999
and even last night Turbulent underestimated them badly losing a number of battleships and command ships.
Underestimated? We took on 30 [BRUCE] + friends with a 9 man gang in their home system. Underestimating had nothing to do with it. We took 3 bs losses in the last fight which was a straight up head to head fight at their freshly probed safespot which we set up an ambush at. The only reason we got jumped by them all at once was because a [BRUCE] falcon warped in to their safespot solo while cloaked and reported us to the rest, who then regrouped and warped in en masse. We saw the falcon on scan warping in, which then vanished. We knew we'd been spotted and had lost the element of surprise but we thought we'd take on the blob anyway. There was frozen screens all round when 30 assorted ships suddenly entered the overview. That's no excuse though, we lost those ships fair and square.
Before that happened we spent a while taking out people in hit and run ops, and three command ships (of which we lost none) got a few kills while camping the main station.
Our losses during the safespot fight:
Scorp x1
Geddon x1
Domi x1
[BRUCE] losses during the safespot fight:
AB Tallen - Stabber (stabbed up)
Imnotbob - Vexor
Zaphod Bee - Blackbird
Additional [BRUCE] + friends losses due to hit and run ops and station camp:
Reidn - Drake
NormandyHacker - Vexor
D'nar - Scorpion
D'nar - Pod
Defender Hurricane - Ferox
Defender Hurricane - Pod
AshrakTheWhite - Stabber
11Ghost11 - Myrmidon
Our other losses:
None.
One of our members has yet to post his killmails so I may edit the above later.
Complimentary pic of the aftermath of the safespot fight.
So merc999, before bringing Turbulent into a discussion that isn't even about us, make sure you know the facts before insulting our corp to make [BRUCE] look that little bit more uber. We fought them, they fought us. Both sides enjoyed the fights and kills and losses occurred on both sides.
Good fight [BRUCE].
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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Zimroel
The Blackstone Group
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.29 16:59:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kehmor
Edited by: Kehmor on 29/12/2006 14:16:31
to answer a few points:
A) this so called smack is being played up by bruce a bit too much considering they were the ones who started the whole thing, I merely defended myself in what i believe was a very reasonable way though I'll admit I wasn't worried about hurting their feelings.
edit: Again, I will provide logs on demand
B) What I was trying to do is pretty irrelevent, why would I try to lie? I wasn't infact intending to warp out considering I was anking you fine when I could keep my duel repsrunning I.E. out of your nos range.
C) You probablywould have won anyway yes, but hey, guess we'll never know. As for your 7.5 RoF well I have 2 reppers with a 9 second cycle so...
D) The only thing worse than cheating in a 1v1 is trying to justify it while making no attempt to put things right. As I said in local, if I and a corp mate had done this we'd be out of PAK right now unless we had a very good reason and at the very least replaced the ship of our opponent. Now it doesn't really matter to me as it was a tech I and fairly cheaply fit battlecruiser; hardly a big loss. However I have no doubt by this point that your corporation and alliance take similar action in all its "1v1s"
E) Aodha you are jsut bitter that I was the best fleet leader BI ever had while you were at best a corp joke, stop trying to hi-jack this thread with personal insults at me.
A. You initiated the smack in local before anyone had spoken to (or about) you. That's hardly defending yourself.
B. I've no idea why you ARE lieing. If you weren't planning to warp, could you enlighten us on how you were possibly going to win from 30km out (range of my nos) using blasters and with your drones recalled? Why recall the drones at all if you weren't going to warp? It's not like they were getting badly damaged - I was hardly gonna shoot up T2 drones that were shortly to be mine. As for your claim that you could tank me OK with your 2 MAR IIs - there was no sign of that when your armour plummeted - and I hadn't even reloaded to optimum missiles. You claimed in local afterwards that your armour reps were still running - if so, and you were into hull, that would tend to suggest your idea of "being able to tank" is rather different to mine. You tried to run and warp out - but were screwed because I had a 28km disruptor on. I'd have landed 2 more volleys of cruises before you got there - and that's IF you had enough cap to re-engage your MWD.
You'd lost, you knew it, and you tried to run (if not then, as asked earlier, explain what your blasters were going to do from 30km?). I knew you'd lost, so why on earth would I ask someone else to join in? After all, I knew i had a 28km scramble on you. Once you accept there was no reason for me to request assistance then it becomes pretty obvious it was a mistake by an inexperienced pilot. Had you not been in such an almighty rush to get it going we could have ganged and gone to a safespot. There were maybe 20-25 of my alliance in that system - many of whom were in the same gang with me. Had I WANTED the 1v1 dishonoured I could have had a blob land on you as soon as I got you scrambled.
It was a stupid mistake - but it changed nothing. The only way you could survive once you got to close range on me was by mwding out of range and warping. Why you're lieing about the fact that you tried that I have no idea.
To correct a minor error made by the cloaked spectator - the pilot who interfered was NOT from my corporation (he was from my alliance though).
Maybe next time you have a 1v1 sort two things before it starts:
1. Gang and go to a safespot for YOUR protection.
2. Agree no warping out or mwding beyond range - so THEY have a chance to win.
Or just MWD at them in a roid belt in system where the other one has 20+ members of their alliance in system - and hope they all read local.
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merc999
Caldari
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2006.12.29 17:11:00 -
[27]
Damien,
I have fought Turby enough times to have some respect for you guys,( hell I lost a Scorp to you couple days ago) The comment certainly wasnt meant as an insult to Turby.
If it was taken that way I unreseverdly apologise
When you went through Heverice on your way through there was a few more than 9, however I did see Tribal makin his way solo through Oulletta a while later so assume , going on your figures a number left before the engagement fully took place.
The whole comment and why I bought it up was meant to show more that a lot of people seem to see BRUCE as an easy alliance and Aeschee as a soft spot for ganks. I agree that BRUCE have in the past left themselves somewhat open but they are getting more and more organised and not the easy ganks anymore. If 9 Turby deliberatly went into Aeschee last night fully aware that BRUCE could organise and that you were likely to be blobbed by 30+ pilots then you have more isk to burn than I have :) if you werent expecting the blob of that size then there was an element of underestimation 
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.29 18:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: merc999
Damien,
I have fought Turby enough times to have some respect for you guys,( hell I lost a Scorp to a couple of you a couple days ago) The comment certainly wasnt meant as an insult to Turby.
If it was taken that way I unreseverdly apologise
No probs dude, apology accepted. It just came across as a sly dig at Turby so I'm sorry if I misread it. We knew how many they had in local and after watching them for a while noticed that most of them were doing missions and were otherwise unaware that an attack was imminent. We knew that they could field a large blob but knew that it would take them a while to organise so we decided to engage anyway. Even if we get omgwtfpwned and lose every ship, if we had a laugh doing it it would be worth it. Attacking when outnumbered just gets you closer to re-experiencing that first combat rush that we all fondly remember.
The one fatal mistake we made was not relocating when we knew our ambush had been spotted and deciding to stay in position waiting to take on the blob head to head. Because of that we took losses but we had fun and that's what counts. The real winner of the fight was the lag because both sides lost the chance to have a really enjoyable fight in return for frozen screens and slideshow combat. Each side fired at what they could and both scored a kill or two. Not the ideal situation to be in when pinpoint timing and tactics decide the winner.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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n0bird
Amarr
The Kennels
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Posted - 2006.12.29 19:25:00 -
[29]
Edited by: n0bird on 29/12/2006 19:27:16
And i got told Kehmor was in eve retirement, and PAK was a corp for old PvP chars that had found a life outside of eve and didnt really play too often.
Good to hear your back playing
Shame it happened, but at least you werent winning at the time
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Kehmor
Caldari
PAK
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2006.12.29 20:57:00 -
[30]
This has gone way off topic, I never intended it to be a debate. The facts are more or less agreed upon by both sides with slight variations regarding who was smacking who. As I said I will be happy to provide complete chat logs to anyone who asks, apart from that make up your own mind. This is the last I will say on this topic.
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