| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate
Ushra'Khan
1553
   |
Posted - 2015.11.03 22:01:47 -
[151] - Quote
Diana Kim wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:There are times I read the madwoman's ranting and just go, "Did you seriously just...?"
To all and sundry, I apologize for the minor typo of CEO Mens Reppola's name, and have corrected the error.
As for Kim's ranting, I wonder why I even try. Primary vocation, you frothing madwoman. Maker, even I have done my mandatory service. The whole concept of diversification and varied strategies still applies.
Winds guide her back to sanity some day.
And now, ladies and gentlemen you can see Makoto's true form: Again spreading pro-gallentean lies about Caldari officer using the word 'madwoman', while no really sane and professional medic would put such diagnosis. Not saying she could had any documents backing her groundless lies. Is anyone here stupid enough to deal with such liar as Makoto now?
I'd personally put more stock in Priano's word than yours. She offers more than "No, you" arguments, logical Fallacies, and blatant bigotry in her arguments. You on the other hand seem only able to repeat the same tired line, reference your own (already debunked) topics as if they were fact, ignore the posts you can't deny (or parts of the posts), and call people liars while screaming insults at them.
Have fun proving me right.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
5754
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 22:20:51 -
[152] - Quote
Vizage wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Besides, it's not like Tuulinen-haan wouldn't be just fine with having a drink, swapping stories, or showing up in dress uniform to an event. I was embarrassingly excited reading that right up to the word "uniform." The just disappointment....
Mah dress code is always appropriate, even when it's inappropriately appropriate.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
2167
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 22:39:53 -
[153] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:
I'd personally put more stock in Priano's word than yours. She offers more than "No, you" arguments
She never did, so you can stop trolling.
Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.
In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
|
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate
Ushra'Khan
1554
|
Posted - 2015.11.03 23:13:31 -
[154] - Quote
Let the drinking commence!!!
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Calliste Dauvienne
Echelon Mirage
7
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 06:46:19 -
[155] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Calliste Dauvienne wrote:While the word oppress was not used I would say you yourself acknowledge that it was implied: Arrendis wrote: 'the Other' is a term indicating that the individual or group in question is segregated or presented as outside of 'normal' society in a specific attempt to demonize them and incite popular opinion against them Sociologically, I would call that social conformity pressure and a method of oppression by ostracizing or segregating those who do not prescribe to a popular opinion of the majority. You would say it was implied. I would say it was inferred. The difference? One is the act of the speaker/writer, the other the act of the listener/reader. To be blunt, oppression is systemic and it is institutionalized. Being jerks isn't oppression. I'm certainly not saying you're being oppressive.
Yes, and that was the crux of the issue and basis of curiosity for myself. As to whether the anecdotal evidence provided might point to a broader systemic or institutional oppression or if it was just the personal inference of such. Upon the elaborations provided I can only conclude it is the latter. Whilst unfortunate that one may encounter those they consider to be jerks, as you say being jerks isn't oppression in and of itself.
That said, and my conclusions drawn, I am not offended personally if Mr. Egivand holds the personal prejudice that all Gallenteans or everyone in the Federation are oppressive jerks if I am not offended by the opinions of Commander Kim on Gallenteans and the Federation which I might say is in parallel. To each their own as they see fit.
I can certainly empathize to some degree with the sentiments expressed by Mr. Egivand, myself. I have experienced those in the Federation who have been persistent in pushing their view that I should abandon my duties, obligations, and adherence to my beliefs and traditions as a Jin-Mei Saan Go in service to my Overlord. Some have even thought I'm a damsel in distress in need of, "Saving," From my life of service because they are some kind White Knight for social and civil justice. While onerous at times, I am aware that such misunderstandings happen. Especially if they did not grow up in a polity where Jin-Mei live. Which is not unusual.
It's not as I'm not prone to initial misunderstandings or ignorance myself in life. I still remember not understanding the cause of depression of my Sebiestor wingmate I served with in the Navy until she explained that when she was shot down her strike craft was not just a vehicle or a machine but her talisman through the Ohnesh into the Andesh of her ancestors. She felt she could not fly operations because she was no longer protected by the guidance of her spirits and ancestors. Understandably, she had to be taken out of the flight roster until her replacement strike craft was properly blessed by a shaman of her Tribe.
Whilst I may never fully feel or understand her faith and belief as she did, I am still grateful to have met and to have known both her and what she taught me. My life is far richer for the experience.
But then I suppose the misunderstandings of prejudice is what it is to be human. The ability to make rapid judgements and create functional defined stereotypes about our environment and others with set logic is part of human cognition, sapience, and the success of the species. This is why I spoke earlier about the perils of prejudice, stereotype, and confirmation bias earlier in this thread. Set logic thrives on the creation of axioms, and there is always the danger of recursion, paradox, and cognitive dissonance when axiomatic thinking is applied to a complex system such as another human being or the societies human beings create.
It is why I was hardly offended by your earlier vehemence, Ms. Arrendis. Parsing through the IGS it is simple to construct the stereotypical Gallentean effigy required by those who desire one to burn. Ms. Aria Jenneth certainly provided enough material in that regard. Confirmation bias handled all the rest. No doubt defense advocacy is required against one pursuing the ulterior motives of propaganda point scoring. A, Gallentean "Cultural Imperialist," Trying to impress how perfect the Federation is and who cannot countenance any form of dissent - Minmatar or otherwise.
In reality the Federation will always be as flawed as the human beings who comprise it. Which is why my interest was as I said, if there was a substantive cause for concern in broad based systemic and institutional oppression or discrimination directed towards Minmatar in the Federation beyond anecdotal evidence and personal inference of such. I do not at present feel this is the case, although I'm sure individual experiences will always vary. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
830
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 07:44:40 -
[156] - Quote
Let's say it together.
Dear Gallente,
Unless we are asking for your help, mind your own business.
Thanks.
P/s: I respect your right of free speech, but I still think you are an idiot. Capsuleers can't summon spaceships out of nowhere. And I'm not footing that bill.
P/s: Breacher beats Incursus. Tristans about even. It's not a debate!
P/s: No, we don't all listen to Death Rustcore.
P/s: No, our tattoos aren't fashionable.
P/s: I'm neutral about Gallente Federation politics, except that thing about Mentas Blaque. He is a jerk. And that thing about 'the camera is for your security' is about as valid as the idea of locking somebody up in a cage to keep him safe from a serial killer.
P/s: I don't like snails! Stop making me eat snails!
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
|
Neph
Operation Meatshield
Plexodus
173
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 07:50:07 -
[157] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Let's say it together.
Dear Gallente,
Unless we are really asking for your help about anything, mind your own business.
Thanks.
P/s: I respect your right of free speech, but I still think you are an idiot. Capsuleers can't summon spaceships out of nowhere. And I'm not footing that bill.
Tristans suck ass. I hate Tristans. Seem like T1.5 frigs to me.
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
|
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
830
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 07:54:47 -
[158] - Quote
Neph wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Let's say it together.
Dear Gallente,
Unless we are really asking for your help about anything, mind your own business.
Thanks.
P/s: I respect your right of free speech, but I still think you are an idiot. Capsuleers can't summon spaceships out of nowhere. And I'm not footing that bill. Tristans suck ass. I hate Tristans. Seem like T1.5 frigs to me.
So you agree that it's better than most T1 frigs?
(BTW, I updated my list of gripes)
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
|
Neph
Operation Meatshield
Plexodus
173
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 08:01:09 -
[159] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
P/s: Breacher beats Incursus. Tristans about even. It's not a debate!
P/s: No, we don't all listen to Death Rustcore.
P/s: No, our tattoos aren't fashionable.
P/s: I'm neutral about Gallente Federation politics, except that thing about Mentas Blaque. He is a jerk. And that thing about 'the camera is for your security' is about as valid as the idea of locking somebody up in a cage to keep him safe from a serial killer.
P/s: I don't like snails! Stop making me eat snails!
If I could fit this all into my IGN sig, I would in a heartbeat.
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
|
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1570
|
Posted - 2015.11.04 18:42:42 -
[160] - Quote
Calliste Dauvienne wrote:Stuff
A few notes:
First, I'd like to say you're being much more reasonable now, thank you. I should, however, point out that while you were expressing curiosity, your presentation of it reached its own conclusions and definitely implied that you believed Mr. Egivand had cited oppression.
Calliste DauvienneIs the Federation oppressing Minmatar by providing them access to economic opportunity and the ability to provide remittances back to the Republic?
Is the Federation oppressing the Minmatar by granting the Republic Trade Agreements beneficial to their local economy?
Is the Federation oppressing the Minmatar by offering financial stimulus and humanitarian aid for refugees and recently freed slaves?
No, it seems the oppression of the Federation comes from having to face the opinions of others.
[/quote wrote:
Had you, instead, presented your curiosity as 'Do you feel like X is oppressive, or just rude?' and not presented a conclusion as well, much of the tension could have been easily avoided.
Second, 'Arrendis', please, no 'Ms.' It's a level of formality that really, I've never been comfortable having directed my way. I'm an uncomplicated person in that regard.
As for my earlier vehemence... I'm afraid you're once again inferring, Ms. Dauviennels. However, tone is a very difficult thing to properly carry off in text when you're unfamiliar with the writer, so it's an understandable error - I just wanted to clear that up, so you had a better dataset to work from in the future.
[quote]
In reality the Federation will always be as flawed as the human beings who comprise it. Which is why my interest was as I said, if there was a substantive cause for concern in broad based systemic and institutional oppression or discrimination directed towards Minmatar in the Federation beyond anecdotal evidence and personal inference of such. I do not at present feel this is the case, although I'm sure individual experiences will always vary.
There, we most certainly agree. |
Vollhov
Senators of Eridan
Red Alliance
383
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 00:03:04 -
[161] - Quote
Sorry that I interfere your discussion.
Here the Fedo are not ran?
Missing Fedo, nicknamed Fedor. Almost does not stink!
Requezt return for remuneration.
Here is his portrait of with old hosts.
Thank you for your attention. 
Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE"
Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110
Empress capsuleer.
CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum.
This character will die February 6, 2016 17:54 UTC.
|
Anyanka Funk
Hematology Advancement Program
Sani-Sabik
316
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 00:12:10 -
[162] - Quote
I saw that little Fedor in Emo Fam station in Amarr! He's a fast little sucker! If I see him again I'll try catchin the stinker. Do you need it dead or alive? |
Vollhov
Senators of Eridan
Red Alliance
383
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 00:13:54 -
[163] - Quote
Live !!! Please do not hurt him. He is good.
Thanks you -í-íP Falcon "that helped to quit EVE"
Grand Empress Jamyl Sarum YC110
Empress capsuleer.
CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum.
This character will die February 6, 2016 17:54 UTC.
|
Neph
Operation Meatshield
Plexodus
179
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 18:58:33 -
[164] - Quote
I recently came into the possession of 500 fitted gankalysts. What do you think I should do with them?
Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
|
Deitra Vess
Khushakor Clan
Matari Safari
727
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 19:24:05 -
[165] - Quote
I'll takem!! Give them to me! |
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate
Ushra'Khan
1570
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 19:27:31 -
[166] - Quote
I'll give you 1 ISK each for the lot of them.
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
|
Nassen Red Parniss
Tungsten Gear Industries
Guardians of the Morrigan
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 19:55:14 -
[167] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:I'll give you 1 ISK each for the lot of them.
I'll raise you 2 Isk
|
Deitra Vess
Khushakor Clan
Matari Safari
727
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 21:12:24 -
[168] - Quote
I'll pay 10 isk EACH |
Calliste Dauvienne
Echelon Mirage
8
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 21:49:30 -
[169] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:
First, I'd like to say you're being much more reasonable now, thank you. I should, however, point out that while you were expressing curiosity, your presentation of it reached its own conclusions and definitely implied that you believed Mr. Egivand had cited oppression.
Well Arrendis, I will admit to having been deliberately disingenuous in my initial statement that begun our discussion. I played to what I felt was a stereotype in order to determine if others would believe in the caricature or see through it as parody. In hindsight, you are correct, it did cause an overly contentious paradigm in discussion that was unnecessary. If I caused offense or misunderstanding due to it then I apologize. I don't think I'm cut out for political satire, if only because I cannot maintain a required exaggerated facade for long in preference for more reasonable discussion.
I can certainly understand the sentiment of not being interested in politics as a sole topic of conversation. While important, I do feel there is a time and place for it and a limit until I would much rather talk about or do something else. I do not feel I am the only one in the Federation. In fact as an avid gamer I'm reminded of the TACNET snafu caused by presidential candidate Kalen Ontbad in the last elections. Even Gallenteans don't take kindly to having politics intersect in an activity in which they'd probably much rather drive an LAV packed full of thermobaric explosives into a base, and are willing to express their displeasure with virtual gunfire and sexually suggestive character emotes in protest.
Honestly, politics is well down on my own news and media feeds in preference for arts, culture, music, technology, competitive gaming leagues and the plays of the day, business, defence, and armaments. Even when political developments do show up, it usually updates from my own District and local polity where I live. That's mostly just me keeping up with the latest legislative acts and judicial precedents that might impact my own life.
Now, getting back to the campaign of Kalen Ontbad, I will say that the District and polity in which I live in Everyshore does have a very low Minmatar demographic compared to the District in which Senator Ontbad was elected, on the border with the Republic. If Senator Ontbad was not involved or interested in political discussion and elected to his office by his constituents which include a large Minmatar demographic then I would say there would be a lot less awareness among others in the Federation, myself included, on the issues facing his District which relates to Minmatar. Such as overpopulation in polities caused by migration from the Republic, the inability of infrastructure and services such as health care or education to cope, and socioeconomic disparities caused by a lack of work opportunities.
These are real and important issues that are of concern and should be addressed.
However they can only be addressed because awareness is made of them due to the fact that Minmatar are not oppressed in the Federation. They are not systematically or institutionally discriminated against or excluded from the political process or holding the power that comes from elected office because they are Minmatar. Far from it, they are afforded equal rights to any other citizen in the Federation under the law, are enfranchised and empowered to vote for their own representatives, and those representatives are able to hold an office in the Federation of significant influence and power to act on the behalf of the interests of Minmatar in their constituency.
As such my interests in beginning this discussion (As poorly as I will admit I did) was to try and understand what I saw as a contradiction. To on the one hand express a lack of interest or desire to engage in political discussion necessary to the democratic process and then other assert that one is being marginalized or treated as, "Other".
I believe there exists a difference between voluntarily choosing not to participate in political discussion and democracy, and being institutionally excluded from participating in political discussion and democracy.
For myself then, if Mr. Egivand has decided upon the former when the latter is demonstrated not to be the case in the Federation then all I can conclude from such thinking when it comes to criticisms of marginalization towards himself or Minmatar in general is that it is essentially saying, "But you made me do it!" Instead of taking responsibility for the consequences of ones own decisions and actions.
|
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Multicultural F1 Brigade
5755
|
Posted - 2015.11.05 21:55:05 -
[170] - Quote
Do you really need to use up all the words? Be nice and let others have their fair share. You remind me of an old commander of mine.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
|
Nassen Red Parniss
Tungsten Gear Industries
Guardians of the Morrigan
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 00:39:07 -
[171] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:I'll pay 10 isk EACH
Then....
12 Isk each |
Deitra Vess
Khushakor Clan
Matari Safari
727
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 00:40:41 -
[172] - Quote
15 |
Nassen Red Parniss
Tungsten Gear Industries
Guardians of the Morrigan
0
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 00:44:46 -
[173] - Quote
*GrumbleGrumble*
17 |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
838
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 04:04:34 -
[174] - Quote
@Calliste Dauvienne
Oh no you will not agree with either of our views on politics or show your loyalties to our political party of choice rawr rawr you are not one of us rawr rawr we are going to annoy you into taking a side/avoid you like you have the Pit Disease.
What part of that doesn't sound like 'exclusion'? And how am I to be held responsible for them bugging me like a slaver hound with their jaws glued to my ankles or them avoiding me like I just took a dip in radium sludge?
It's not just politics either. The Gallente seems to always want to take a side about *something* every time. The 'sit on fence' is unacceptable. I noticed the huge difference in attitude when I pick a side (like the Incursus vs whatever discussion) and when I won't pick a side (Party A vs the Federation). If I say, "Okay, no comments," then they will be like "No, you must comment." Next thing I know they will either walk away or try to market their side of the argument to me in what is clearly a heavy-handed attempt to make me agree about something and take their side of the argument.
When conversing with my brethren, if one of us said, "No comment," the rest would say, "Okay," and continue on.
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
|
Calliste Dauvienne
Echelon Mirage
8
|
Posted - 2015.11.06 22:16:40 -
[175] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:@Calliste Dauvienne
Oh no you will not agree with either of our views on politics or show your loyalties to our political party of choice rawr rawr you are not one of us rawr rawr we are going to annoy you into taking a side/avoid you like you have the Pit Disease.
What part of that doesn't sound like 'exclusion'? And how am I to be held responsible for them bugging me like a slaver hound with their jaws glued to my ankles or them avoiding me like I just took a dip in radium sludge?
It's not just politics either. The Gallente seems to always want to take a side about *something* every time. The 'sit on fence' is unacceptable. I noticed the huge difference in attitude when I pick a side (like the Incursus vs whatever discussion) and when I won't pick a side (Party A vs the Federation). If I say, "Okay, no comments," then they will be like "No, you must comment." Next thing I know they will either walk away or try to market their side of the argument to me in what is clearly a heavy-handed attempt to make me agree about something and take their side of the argument.
When conversing with my brethren, if one of us said, "No comment," the rest would say, "Okay," and continue on.
See if you had said that initially without what I considered attached non-sequitors that seemed to imply to me marginalization or persecution due to it, I probably would have been far less confused about what you meant.
So yes, your perspective is an understandable one and I can agree that political discussion in the Federation at all levels can get contentious or partisan. However, for myself I also accept that it is a product of people being passionate in what they think and consider important.
It's not like politics is the only thing people get passionate about either. I mean I just read an article about riot police having to be sent in to pacify a serious disturbance caused by rival fans of Jin-Mei pop idol groups.
So whether it's politics and ideology or the preferred variation of single virgin pop culture kayfabe it's just people being invested and committed to what they believe and what they enjoy, and hey because humans are social creatures they tend to create social groups around common interests, beliefs, and views with in-group/out-group dynamics.
I already said the Federation is a human society, but if people criticize it for the flaws of humans being humans then what does that make everyone else?
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |