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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:51:00 -
[31]
Are you still working on this Akita?
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Fedjakeen
Sigma Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 09:12:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
Now before you ask... YES, effective quality also influences LP, not only ISK.
Tried to skill my negotiation from 3 to 4 to check it, my LP didn't change from 1 point.
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Royaldo
Old Farts
Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.01.09 11:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Fedjakeen
Quote:
Now before you ask... YES, effective quality also influences LP, not only ISK.
Tried to skill my negotiation from 3 to 4 to check it, my LP didn't change from 1 point.
negotiations doesnt help on effective quality.
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.01.09 12:09:00 -
[34]
My experience is that EQ has nothing to do with LP rewards. Mine changes tons between finishing a string of missions and declining three in a row when being ****ed with constantly being offered crap, yet the LP rewards stay the same.
I once tried to develop a formula myself but got no logical results (at one point I actually found a lower quality agent in 0.9 sec giving BETTER rewards than a higher quality in 0.5 sec). Though this might be due to the existance of a division modifier. Maybe it is indeed time to try again...
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:26:00 -
[35]
I am ready to put a lot of effort into helping to figure this out... I just want to make sure Akita is still working on it.
One thing I will mention though is that after training a skill you generally have to relog before it will take effect. I'm not really sure why... but this is the case with many different types of skills, including trade skills and connections.
Also, if the agent in .5 and .9 space were for different corps it could explain it as well... if they were the same corp then I don't know... was it the identical mission? Remember, the main number that determines the LP of a mission is it's bonus time. This is a direct multiplier for LP and could be considered the missions "difficulty factor".
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.01.10 02:24:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/01/2007 02:21:48
Still working on it, also collecting data from my own missions and corpmates, but I've been pretty busy in real-life recently so I kind of put it on hold for the time being (including logged-in EVE time, just coming in switching a skill, logging off), coming back "full force" in early February only, out of the country from the 15th until the 23rd of January.
Meanwhile, posting data here helps in the long run, as I'll hopefully have enough to properly analyze (and post results, of course) by the time I do come back to "active duty" late January / early February 2007.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.10 07:40:00 -
[37]
I know Akita just said bonus time isn't required but it would certainly make things a lot easier if you list them imo. It isn't required to do it... but it's an instant indication of how difficult a mission is. And, if a mission changes it's difficulty rating it would be the only way to explain away the irregularities. Missions can change their difficulty based on how fast they are run, etc... I've seen it happen, especially after patches, but sometimes just out of the blue a mission will be worth a slightly different amount.
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Fedjakeen
Sigma Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.11 05:17:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Royaldo
negotiations doesnt help on effective quality.
Negotiation
Skill at agent negotiation. Improves agent effective quality. 5% additional pay per skill level for agent missions.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:47:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Shadarle on 11/01/2007 18:46:38
Come on, don't go posting skill descriptions or someone will post that of a shield compensation skill to show you how worthless that is.
It matters how the skills actually work, not how they say they work :)
Payment from missions is separate from their LP rewards and are not constant. Increasing negotiations does not increase the LP reward but does increase the ISK reward as far as I know. Feel free to raise your negotiation level by one tho to test it. It is a bit complicated tho as ISK rewards are not constant as I said. LP are constant tho, so it would take an averaged sample of the same LP valued missions compared to their ISK values with and without that point of negotiations to see what the impact is or if it's even working.
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Fedjakeen
Sigma Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.12 05:52:00 -
[40]
I was just saying that Negotiation does boost your effective quality, i know it doesn't rise your LP rewards i tried it a few days ago ^^ but my effective quality was higher iirc.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.12 08:18:00 -
[41]
If your EQ was higher and your LP did not change then that is very interesting. I had thought LP was tied to it fairly tightly. It does give me a good hint of how to proceed on figuring out a formula tho.
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Arrs Grazznic
Freelancer Association
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Posted - 2007.01.12 09:42:00 -
[42]
Some useful formula for you:
Effective Agent Quality = Base Agent Quality + ( 5 * Level of Negotiation Skill ) + Effective Agent Standing
where
Effective Standing = Actual Standing + ( ( 10 - Actual Standing ) * 0.04 * Level of Relevant Connection Skill )
where 'Relevant Connection Skill' is one of COnnections, Diplomancy or Criminal Connections.
Cheers,
Arrs
Do you want a sig like this? EVE-mail me or convo me in-game.
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Fedjakeen
Sigma Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.12 10:29:00 -
[43]
Well i'm sorry Shadarle i won't go for negotiation V just to check, but i'm sure that my LP didn't move when i went from III to IV. Now you have to find someone to confirm that Negotiation boost your EQ ^^
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.01.12 13:07:00 -
[44]
L2 mission: The Drone Infestation
EQ 33
Skill sum: 3
System security: 0.4 (agent system), 0.5 (target system)
Reward: 276 LP
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:32:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Arrs Grazznic
Some useful formula for you:
Effective Agent Quality = Base Agent Quality + ( 5 * Level of Negotiation Skill ) + Effective Agent Standing
where
Effective Standing = Actual Standing + ( ( 10 - Actual Standing ) * 0.04 * Level of Relevant Connection Skill )
where 'Relevant Connection Skill' is one of COnnections, Diplomancy or Criminal Connections.
This would mean:
Actual Standing = Effecting Standing - ((10-Actual Standing) * .04 * Level of Relevant Connection Skill)
Which unfortunately is not accurate. It's actually closer to .045, not .04 per relevant connections skill. I know, I know... this makes no sense... but it fits better if you analyze enough data.
Use your formulas for these numbers:
6.89377229701 (Corp Standing, affected by connections 3). You'll get 6.521... but in game the value without connections is 6.47.
Here is another one to try:
5.33470618253 (Corp Standing, affected by connections 2). You'll get 4.9615... but in game the value without connections is 4.93.
The closer to 10 you get the more accurate it is, the further from 10 the less accurate it is. If you adjust it to .45 a lot of numbers get a lot closer... but it's still not right. I've tried tweaking it even more but no matter what I do it starts to throw off numbers at one end of the spectrum. So I'm honestly at a loss for how connections actually works in game... as opposed to "in theory".
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Jai Centarium
Anqara Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.31 15:13:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Shadarle
This would mean:
Actual Standing = Effecting Standing - ((10-Actual Standing) * .04 * Level of Relevant Connection Skill)
Actually, that equation isn't accurate, since "Actual Standing" is on both sides. The correctly balanced equation, which DOES sync up for your example numbers (I don't have access to EVE today to confirm, I can double check tonight) is this:
Actual Standing = (Effective Standing - 0.4 * Connection) / (1 - 0.04 * Connection)
My avatar is a disembodied head. Nifty. |
Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.02.03 01:32:00 -
[47]
THANK YOU! I've been wondering what was wrong with my formula for quite a while... looked at it too long to see the obvious problem :)
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