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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.29 06:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/12/2006 06:01:37
I have to start by asking you to bear with me if this was already discussed to death already (couldn't find any pertinent results anyway, and I've looked around), so I'm just going to start a new thread about it. The idea to start this thread actually started only yesterday, after this thread in general discutions, about "worth of non-command agents". ____
Without much extra talk, I present to you the PROPOSED "reverse-engineered" formula for LP gains:
LP = Base * [1 + 0.05*(Skill1Level+Skill2Level)] * [1 + (EQ/100)] * AgentTypeModifier * SystemSecModifier ___
Now, the nasty part.
Base : a global "base LP for this mission" value, auto-adjusted by the system periodically depending on time needed to complete mission on average for all players. That much is pretty clear.
Skill1Level and Skill2Level : level (0-5) of the "relevant" rank1 connection skills for the division you run missions for instance, Command agents "use" Political Connections and Military Connections
EQ : the "Effective Quality" of the agent. You can see that value from a simple "showinfo" on the agent. If you want to calculate it yourself for a certain agent, it's: EQ = Agent base quality + PersonalAgentStanding(rounded down, after connections boost) + 5*NegotiationsLevel
SystemSecModifier : a multiplier for security rating of system agent is located in. How it looks exactly, no idea, but is lowest for 1.0 and highest for 0.0, of course. This is one of the areas that needs most "work" to properly determine, especially if per chance "true sec" is used instead of "displayed sec"... most work, except the next one.
AgentTypeModifier : now here's the catch. It appears that DEPENDING on mission type, division and corporation, this is a different value. [i]Of course, THERE IS a certain division in each corp, that for a certain type of mission has this multiplier at the maximum possible value... but what that combination is, needs research. Toughest problem will be to determine this combo for certain "non-standard"
So, for instance, any "kill" agents in research corps giving you one of those oddball 5% chance courier missions have one of the lowest values, a bit better for kill missions for kill agents in researc corps, and highest for kill agents giving kill missions in combat corps is highest.
On the other hand, for instance, you might have a very high value for this multiplier if you run courier missions for storage angents in logistics corps, for instance. So it depends not only on division and corp, but on a combination between mission type given, division of agent, and corp "type" the agent is in. ____
Now before you ask... YES, effective quality also influences LP, not only ISK. I have noticed that ever since my low-skill mission-running times, when I was grinding L2 and then L3 missions in Vuorassi/Oimmo... both a small increase every couple of missions in the beginning then smaller and smaller (from personal agent standing), and significant jumps for every level of negotiations.
Also, yes, even if you run Security for some Caldari "protection" corp and get about the same LP as you get running Command agents in systems of same secrating for Caldari Navy, IF you run non-Command agents in Caldari Navy or non-Security agents for the other corp, you get less LP.
And last but not least, it is clear the secrating of the system has the STRONGEST influence of them all, yet how strong (and what is used, truesec or decimalsec) that is a task in progress. _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.29 06:01:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akita T on 29/12/2006 06:06:46 Any help would be appreciated.
More specifically : - agent name (or level/division/corp if you want to conceal name) and the EQ at moment you took the mission - system name (for displayed secrating & true secrating of system, post them if you want to conceal system name) - name of mission taken (preferably one of the "top tier" ones, please, for easier calculations) ___
Reserved for future edit. _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2006.12.29 07:31:00 -
[3]
- agent name Alien Saakuka (L4Q18, Hyasoda corporation, internal security) - EQ 47 - system name Gekutami (sec 0.7) - name of mission Pirate Invasion (snasha version) - sum of the 2 relevant skill levels (the <something> connections) : 10 (both lev 5) - and of course, LP offered 4973
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2006.12.29 08:03:00 -
[4]
agent name: Alien Saakuka (L4Q18, Hyasoda corporation, internal security) EQ: 47 system name: Gekutami (sec 0.7) name of mission: The Right Hand Of Zazzmatazz sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 10 (both lev 5) LP offered: 4451
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2006.12.29 08:18:00 -
[5]
agent name: Alien Saakuka (L4Q18, Hyasoda corporation, internal security) EQ: 47 system name: Gekutami (sec 0.7) name of mission: The Rogue Slave Trader (1 of 2) sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 10 (both lev 5) LP offered: 2989
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2006.12.29 08:36:00 -
[6]
agent name: Alien Saakuka (L4Q18, Hyasoda corporation, internal security) EQ: 47 system name: Gekutami (sec 0.7) name of mission: The Rogue Slave Trader (2 of 2) sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 10 (both lev 5) LP offered: 7163
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:12:00 -
[7]
Thanks for the info, exactly what's needed, anybody else willing to contribute to it, please do. We're going to need quite a large amount of data for this to work out _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Kella DelRae
Ammu-Nation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 09:40:00 -
[8]
Will be contributng as soon as I get back on my missions in the morning.
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Zattron
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Posted - 2006.12.29 13:00:00 -
[9]
Useful info. Thanks
Im curious about how much security of the system effects rewards and LP(i.e. what is the security modifier). For example, I have access to a L4Q1 agent in 0.0 and I have high faction standings with this agent (no corp standing). Would it be better for me to run this agent or a L4Q18+ agent in empire (>0.5). For example, I have access to the caldari navy agent in Motsu, but I find the lag there horrible, so I dont like to run missions there (although I understand this is the best caldari navy agent). Should I find another caldari corp with a L4Q18+ agent in empire or use the L4Q1 agent in 0.0.
BTW I have 7.6 base standings with caldari faction and 8.6 with caldari navy.
The benefit of 0.0 is that I can take breaks to rat of course , but with regards to rewards and LP, which is better
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.29 13:28:00 -
[10]
Out of the top of my head, I would pretty much bet you that (given decent social skills) you'd be getting a lot more from a L4,Q-20 agent in 0.0 (max EQ 15) than a L4,Q+20 agent in 1.0 (max EQ 55). As for the specific details of how much more... that's what I am trying to find out, and need all the assistance I can get, from people posting the info described above fully. _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
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Naran Darkmood
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T Out of the top of my head, I would pretty much bet you that (given decent social skills) you'd be getting a lot more from a L4,Q-20 agent in 0.0 (max EQ 15) than a L4,Q+20 agent in 1.0 (max EQ 55). As for the specific details of how much more... that's what I am trying to find out, and need all the assistance I can get, from people posting the info described above fully.
what I've seen, running mission system sec is affecting the rewards with 10% for each 0.1 sec status. Thus: Systemsecmodifier = (1 - systemsec) * 10
EQ seems to effect the rewards by about 1 % per point.
this is atleast my suggestion for a starting point. I'll post data as soon as I get some mission done.
Originally by: Jiekon From what i`m aware of, reading the game rules, it's not against any rules to mine
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:07:00 -
[12]
A thing to consider, that will drop a span in your math: I'm pretty sure there is a cap to the number of LP, defined at least in big part by the system sec statut.
When I missionned in a 0.1 (with both connection skills at lv5), most of the big missions were giving exactly 12700 LP (lv4 q20, near max standing). I changed my agent and ran for a few days a lv3 in high-sec (Isawiza, don't remember the sec statut), and every big missions were giving 1023 LP, and that amount didn't increase with my standing increase). ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Lubricity
Solidline Enterprise Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:26:00 -
[13]
Here's a list of some missions from a pirate faction. Note that "Guristas" refers to Guristas corp, it shares the same name as the faction. The offers above the double seperator are all max LP offers, below and italicized are not.
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Agent Info: Ogemi Unenailen / L4Q20 / EQ44 / Command / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Vengeance [Mordus] / LP 14177 Skill Sum: 8
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Agent Info: Haatoluppa Arkeshi / L4Q20 / EQ38 / Security / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: The Mordus Headhunters / LP 14177 Skill Sum: 8
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Agent Info: Haatoluppa Arkeshi / L4Q20 / EQ38 / Security / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Infiltrated Outposts / LP 14177 Skill Sum: 8
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Agent Info: Aakie Sekichi / L4Q20 / EQ36 / Security / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Silence The Informant / LP 14177 Skill Sum: 8
========================= =========================
Agent Info: Ogemi Unenailen / L4Q20 / EQ44 / Command / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Ambush The Convoy [Serpentis] / LP 4358 Skill Sum: 8
=========================
This one is a throw-away, it seems the multiplier changed over downtime. Agent Info: Hanaruwa Oittenen / L4Q20 / EQ41 / Command / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Massive Attack [Amarr] / LP 9148 Skill Sum: 8
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Agent Info: Hanaruwa Oittenen / L4Q20 / EQ41 / Command / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Foil The Military Preperations / LP 4715 Skill Sum: 8
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Agent Info: Aakie Sekichi / L4Q20 / EQ36 / Security / Guristas System Info: N5Y-4N / Sec 0.0 / TSec -0.24520 Mission Info: Massive Attack [Amarr] / LP 10122 Skill Sum: 8
========== Insert witty quote here |
Erodmos
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Posted - 2006.12.29 14:29:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Erodmos on 29/12/2006 14:30:57 - agent name lvl4 q3 / intelligance / Quafe - EQ 32 - system name 0.0 sec - name of mission Smuggler Interception - sum of the 2 relevant skill levels 10 - LP offered 9058
and 2nd one:
- agent name lvl4 q14 / intelligance / Quafe - EQ 42 - system name 0.0 sec - name of mission The Blockade - sum of the 2 relevant skill levels 10 - LP offered 11338
But iam not sure but i dont think the EQ changed by skills is making any difference to mission LP rewards. If you get connection one more lvl up, you get the same LPs as far i know, imho only base quality of agent matters.
Erodmos
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Zattron
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Posted - 2006.12.30 04:33:00 -
[15]
Here is a little info about the agent in 0.0 I posted about earlier.
- agent info: lvl4 q1 / surveillance - EQ 18 - system: 0.0 sec - missions: I have done 4 missions so far with a total of 8269LP Seek and Destroy The Infested Ruins Stop The Thief Duo of Death
This doesnt sound like a lot of LP?? What do you guys think. Ill post more as I do more missions, then maybe try one in empire.
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Zattron
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Posted - 2006.12.30 07:12:00 -
[16]
Agent: Surveillance / L4Q1 / EQ18 / 0.0sec Zazzmatazz 3275 LP
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.30 07:26:00 -
[17]
This goes to show I was spot on about the division/corp affecting LP rewards a lot... because it's a well known fact 0.0 missioning is indeed (for the CorrectAgent™) much more LP-profitable (just look at the 14k LP from Lubricity).
So it's a surveillance agent, but what corp ? Try to find another L4 agent in 0.0 (quality really doesn't matter much), but from a different division or a different corp. Eventually you should find one that offers you at least 6k LP per mission, even without the "relevant connections" skills.
Actually, if you could roam around and ask for ONE mission from EACH agent you have "available" and can reach, from a good standings corp (and turn it down directly if you do not use that agent normally, no penality for doing that the FIRST time in 4+h) and post the "summary" data, that would be awesome. Especially wanted are "non-typical" corps (I can do that myself for Caldari Navy and to a certain degree with Ishukone, for instance) and "non-standard" agents, to get a better data spread. _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Zattron
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Posted - 2006.12.30 08:20:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
So it's a surveillance agent, but what corp ? Try to find another L4 agent in 0.0 (quality really doesn't matter much), but from a different division or a different corp. Eventually you should find one that offers you at least 6k LP per mission, even without the "relevant connections" skills.
Well this is a mordu's command agent. And prob the only 0.0 agent available to me. Im not sure why the EQ is so low, because I have 8+ faction standing with mordu's command (but none with the corp). Maybe its based of my corp standing ?
With regards to Lubricity, I would love to have access to those kind of agents. Venal is the spot for guristas agents, and im sure its lots of money up there too. The only other agents ive seen around here are servant sisters of eve and I dont have the standings with them to do level 4s
Ill keep my eye out for any others and see how empire agents compare.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.30 09:09:00 -
[19]
EQ is ALWAYS taking only personal agent standings into account, never corp nor faction standings.
So, even with maxed out social skills (L5 connections, L5 negotiations) the most you can get is +27 to EQ before you start running missions (connections L5 raises personal agent standing to 2.0, +25 from negotiations L5), and most you can get after a long time of running missions is +35 to EQ (+10 from standing after ohgodmany missions, and +25 from L5 nego). _ My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Zattron
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Posted - 2007.01.01 05:41:00 -
[20]
Agent Info: Koivarairos Raan /L4Q16/ Lai Dai Protecterate EQ 32 System Info: Nourvukaiken / Sec 0.8 Mission Info: The Rogue Slave Traders(1) / LP 1644 The Rogue Slave Traders (2) / LP 3953 Skill Sum: 6(3 each)
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Mnengli Noiliffe
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Posted - 2007.01.01 08:40:00 -
[21]
strange that you want a sum of connections. see, stuff like that usually applies by multiplication. for example if the sum is 6 then possible values are - 1+5 : 1.05*1.25=1.3125 2+4 : 1.1*1.2 = 1.32 3+3 : 1.15*1.15 = 1.3225 as you see they are not the same numbers, sou you'd get errors in your estimations.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari Seoltachd
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Posted - 2007.01.01 23:21:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe strange that you want a sum of connections. see, stuff like that usually applies by multiplication. for example if the sum is 6 then possible values are - 1+5 : 1.05*1.25=1.3125 2+4 : 1.1*1.2 = 1.32 3+3 : 1.15*1.15 = 1.3225 as you see they are not the same numbers, sou you'd get errors in your estimations.
Because there is a large amount of anecdotal evidence that points to the special connections skills applying additatively rather than multiplicatively.
Certainly the numbers I've got seem to suggest this, but the changing 'base' variable leaves me unable to properly verify this.
If Akita is having problems trying to make his theoretical formula match, then he may wish to re-visit this assumption.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:17:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Shadarle on 02/01/2007 01:20:54 Edited by: Shadarle on 02/01/2007 01:19:57 Akita, I may be able to help you a great deal with solving your problem. I attempted to tackle this issue a few months back. I created a massive list of missions, rewards, etc. It would probably be better for me to provide you the excel sheet itself, as there is too much info to easily provide on the forums.
I have alway assumed that the connections skills were multiplicative... the formula never worked correctly though. I just redid the formula with connections as additive and it now works correctly.
The "worth" of a mission is based off the bonus time you are given. So, for the 6 bonus hour missions (the highest you can get), I would receive 2702 LP with one advanced connection skill to level 4, the other to level 3. When both were level 4 I receive 2802. When calculated additively they both come out nearly identically (off by just a fraction). Multiplicatively they come out far off.
Basically, to get the "worth" you need to just keep peeling back the layers of factors until you are left with the base points of the mission. I am really curious if missions that are gotten from agents of multiple levels are based off the same base points. If so then we can determine how much each level adds and thus how much level 5missions will be worth if they are added.
Another special note. Make sure you get the REAL security status of a system, not the one listed in game which are rounded. This is crucial or you'll never figure it out. Even in my spreadsheet I don't have the best values listed... but I can tell you that my .49's are from Kaunokka, so if you look up the more detailed security status and replace all the .49's in my list with that you'll have a LOT of data to work with :) Dump all the rest imo, or you'll be screwing yourself up. Dump any without the bonus time. Dump any without every piece of data you need.
You may find out they use more variables than you know about... so try to list EVERYTHING you have access to. Even if you never use it is a lot better than realizing you have to scrap all your current data because you are missing a critical variable.
Mission Spreadsheet
I'd love it if you could pop over to another thread of mine and help me determine the formula for Broker Fee's that you are accessed when placing orders on the market. I have figured a lot out and I have a similar spreadsheet with lots of values listed which I can provide if you are willing to help me out. I will be happy to do a lot more documentation of missions with different skillsets/standings/eq's for your mission "worth" formula as well.
That thread is here: Broker Fee Thread linky
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.01.02 09:11:00 -
[24]
agent name: Shuhola Aularoila (L4Q17, Ishukone corporation, internal security) EQ: 46 system name: Hentogaira (sec 0.6) name of mission: Silence The Informant sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 10 (both lev 5) LP offered: 7695
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Arrs Grazznic
Freelancer Association
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Posted - 2007.01.02 13:24:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Arrs Grazznic on 02/01/2007 13:26:12
Originally by: Marine HK4861
Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe strange that you want a sum of connections. see, stuff like that usually applies by multiplication. for example if the sum is 6 then possible values are - 1+5 : 1.05*1.25=1.3125 2+4 : 1.1*1.2 = 1.32 3+3 : 1.15*1.15 = 1.3225 as you see they are not the same numbers, sou you'd get errors in your estimations.
Because there is a large amount of anecdotal evidence that points to the special connections skills applying additatively rather than multiplicatively.
Certainly the numbers I've got seem to suggest this, but the changing 'base' variable leaves me unable to properly verify this.
If Akita is having problems trying to make his theoretical formula match, then he may wish to re-visit this assumption.
I'm pretty sure Marine HK is right on this one. I used one of the 'top' missions with a consistent LP reward as a base level then trained up a level of relevant connections skill. The LP given for the same mission after training matched what I'd predicted with a 'Skill 1 + Skill 2' formula.
Akita T, good luck with this. I think you'll need it!
Cheers, Arrs
Edit: spelling, bah, who cares
Do you want a sig like this? EVE-mail me or convo me in-game.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.01.02 19:03:00 -
[26]
agent name: Raustilo Nesenoilen (L3Q14, Lai Dai, internal security) EQ: 42 system name: Nuken (sec 0.8) name of mission: Downing the Slavers 2 of 2 sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 10 (both lev 5) LP offered: 1994
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.01.05 15:56:00 -
[27]
agent name: Akkaras Shigakarri (L4Q12, Sukuveestaa corporation, intelligence) EQ: 33 system name: Gekutami (sec 0.7) name of mission: Worlds Collide sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 10 (both lev 5) LP offered: 6032
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.01.05 16:02:00 -
[28]
agent name: Orpas Rewira (L4Q17, Caldary Business Tribunal, Advisory) EQ: 38 system name: Gekutami (sec 0.7) name of mission: Worlds Collide sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 9 (both lev 5 & lev 4) LP offered: 6742
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BrainCooler
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Posted - 2007.01.07 06:28:00 -
[29]
A little extreme for the common cause (I really have to find a better agent...)
agent name: Zaruh Pirusafa (L4Q-18 (be aware, it's *MINUS* 18), Ministry of Internal Order, Internal Security) EQ: 1 (one, arghh) system name: Nahyeen (sec 0.8) name of mission: Rogue Drone Harrassment sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 4 (lev 4 & lev 0) is there a secondary skill for internal security? LP offered: 1502
Yeah, did like 9 lev4 missions and got like 9K LP... Arghhhoid...
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BrainCooler
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Posted - 2007.01.07 09:48:00 -
[30]
Another fascinating offer:
agent name: Hepeta Tarvia (L4Q -15 , Ministry of War, Surveillance) EQ: 1 system name: Aband (sec 0.5) name of mission: Infiltrated Outposts sum of the 2 relevant skill levels: 4 (lev 4 military connections & lev 0 high tech) LP offered: 2239
Would be cool to know as to what can I expect from this agent with higher EQ
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