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Making the Nestor a bit more interesting.

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Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 967	Posted - 2015.10.29 04:02:13 - [1] - Quote Had an idea for this ship that I wanted to run by everyone. So, Remove Gallente bonus to drone damage and HP. Change bonus to - can fit 1 drone control unit per level. Remove laser optimal bonus. Change to - 100% bonus to drone control range. Increase drone BW to 250 (double), but leave drone bay as is. Reduce the high slots to 5. (possibly -1 low if necessary to balance tank/dps) Remove scan probe bonus (cause who uses it?) change to - remote rep cap usage. Remove hacking bonuses. Give it anything but hacking bonuses. Now, it's a bit like a mini-carrier. You choose between RR and dps. This does a couple things. 1) Makes the Nestor a better ship (IMO) 2) Gives at least one ship that is a middle ground between a standard BS and a carrier. (drones are quite skill intensive) 3) Many players have been wanting of a mini or escort carrier that was more mobile and fit into small fleets, as well as HS. Balance: The removal of a low slot would balance the drone dps out with tank. Less dps for more tank, or high dps with less tank. Drone damage would be high when fitting a full fleet, but not extremely OP, as well as balanced by not increasing hold and remove HP bonus. The increase to drone control range would basically make up for the removal of high slots. The ship would also be given a bit of defense while set in logistics. The only issue here becomes the use of 5 geckos, as a logi Nestor would then be capable of over 1k dps with geckos, but still run 5 RR in the highs. I'm not sure what can be done to address this, but it will eventually be a non-factor. Thoughts?
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 526	Posted - 2015.10.29 04:03:20 - [2] - Quote Nestor is beautiful as it is. Only change I would make is the old war cry of jump drive. Post combat refit change......... different story maybe The Law is a point of View
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 967	Posted - 2015.10.29 14:04:22 - [3] - Quote Kenrailae wrote: Nestor is beautiful as it is. Only change I would make is the old war cry of jump drive. Post combat refit change......... different story maybe I've heard it's decent in WH space, but outside of that, the ship is a bit lackluster.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1504	Posted - 2015.10.29 14:14:44 - [4] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Kenrailae wrote: Nestor is beautiful as it is. Only change I would make is the old war cry of jump drive. Post combat refit change......... different story maybe I've heard it's decent in WH space, but outside of that, the ship is a bit lackluster. It's sole purpose is exploration. It's designed from the ground up to do spectacular things in wh space. It accomplishes those tasks quite well. I'll fix your statement for you! Eve is decent in WH space, but outside of that, eve is a bit lackluster. Converting the nestor from the wh ship it is designed to be into something else is just criminal. It was put into the game for wh use NOT for Joe Risalo use. I don't mine, so the skiff should be changed all around - turret hardpoints, resist bonus / level, damage bonus / level and a web bonus to range and amount would be the perfect role bonus. It would take it from a lackluster mining ship to pvp awesomeness.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2327	Posted - 2015.10.29 14:19:37 - [5] - Quote I'm all for allowing it to ignore the weapons timer on refits. Genuinely unique trait and if people want to throw billion plus isk mobile depots about well, more power to them
Mario Putzo 1559	Posted - 2015.10.29 17:11:00 - [6] - Quote Just give it the black ops role and be done with it.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1505	Posted - 2015.10.29 17:39:51 - [7] - Quote Mario Putzo wrote: Just give it the black ops role and be done with it. And let it use a covert ops cloak.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 896	Posted - 2015.10.29 19:39:59 - [8] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Just give it the black ops role and be done with it. And let it use a covert ops cloak. Nah. At first I didn't really know what to do with the Nestor but I didn't live in w-space when she came out. Now that I checked that out I can see her doing great things - even without a cloak. Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
Valacus Shattered Silver 3	Posted - 2015.10.29 20:46:21 - [9] - Quote Give the Nestor anything but exploration bonuses. No one uses it to explore. It's the wrong ship class. I'd honestly rather the Nestor was a combat ship than a logi ship. Logi battleships are just as bad as exploration battleships. They're gimped by speed, warp speed, and lock time. Just give the Nestor DPS bonuses, or leave its DPS as is and give it a t2 improved cloak and a jump drive. Blops Nestor FTW. Then it will even be in line with other blops cost wise.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 967	Posted - 2015.10.29 21:14:55 - [10] - Quote Valacus wrote: Give the Nestor anything but exploration bonuses. No one uses it to explore. It's the wrong ship class. I'd honestly rather the Nestor was a combat ship than a logi ship. Logi battleships are just as bad as exploration battleships. They're gimped by speed, warp speed, and lock time. Just give the Nestor DPS bonuses, or leave its DPS as is and give it a t2 improved cloak and a jump drive. Blops Nestor FTW. Then it will even be in line with other blops cost wise. I think they still use the logistics aspect in WH.
Valacus Shattered Silver 3	Posted - 2015.10.30 02:25:07 - [11] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Valacus wrote: Give the Nestor anything but exploration bonuses. No one uses it to explore. It's the wrong ship class. I'd honestly rather the Nestor was a combat ship than a logi ship. Logi battleships are just as bad as exploration battleships. They're gimped by speed, warp speed, and lock time. Just give the Nestor DPS bonuses, or leave its DPS as is and give it a t2 improved cloak and a jump drive. Blops Nestor FTW. Then it will even be in line with other blops cost wise. I think they still use the logistics aspect in WH. That's if they use it at all. There are way better choices for WH than the Nestor. Logi battleships are just a big bag of fail. There's a reason they never released any to begin with. They would have either been OP or a complete failure. The Nestor is the latter.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 526	Posted - 2015.10.30 02:43:54 - [12] - Quote Valacus wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: Valacus wrote: Give the Nestor anything but exploration bonuses. No one uses it to explore. It's the wrong ship class. I'd honestly rather the Nestor was a combat ship than a logi ship. Logi battleships are just as bad as exploration battleships. They're gimped by speed, warp speed, and lock time. Just give the Nestor DPS bonuses, or leave its DPS as is and give it a t2 improved cloak and a jump drive. Blops Nestor FTW. Then it will even be in line with other blops cost wise. I think they still use the logistics aspect in WH. That's if they use it at all. There are way better choices for WH than the Nestor. Logi battleships are just a big bag of fail. There's a reason they never released any to begin with. They would have either been OP or a complete failure. The Nestor is the latter. Nestor is certainly not a failure, it's just very niche. Within that Niche, it is a very strong ship. The Law is a point of View
Mario Putzo 1559	Posted - 2015.10.30 03:50:51 - [13] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: Mario Putzo wrote: Just give it the black ops role and be done with it. And let it use a covert ops cloak. Nah. At first I didn't really know what to do with the Nestor but I didn't live in w-space when she came out. Now that I checked that out I can see her doing great things - even without a cloak. I also don't think it should have a black ops cloak. But it should be able to take black ops portals. I don't think it should get a jump drive, or the ability to create portals though. Its mass should be low enough that it can take a bridge, but would require a larger fuel commitment. Black Ops gangs could use a logistical support ship that can move around with the group. It has a fitting bay, it provides remote assistance, it has scanning bonuses (for what that is worth). I think it would be a good asset to have with *Can take Black Ops Bridges. It doesn't upset the apple cart, since technically you can already to this with T3's + Mobile Depot or...just bring a Carrier or "FAX" when they drop.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3942	Posted - 2015.10.30 08:26:33 - [14] - Quote But OP? How does gutting the damage and utility make it a better ship?
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2334	Posted - 2015.10.30 08:33:11 - [15] - Quote Valacus wrote: Joe Risalo wrote: Valacus wrote: Give the Nestor anything but exploration bonuses. No one uses it to explore. It's the wrong ship class. I'd honestly rather the Nestor was a combat ship than a logi ship. Logi battleships are just as bad as exploration battleships. They're gimped by speed, warp speed, and lock time. Just give the Nestor DPS bonuses, or leave its DPS as is and give it a t2 improved cloak and a jump drive. Blops Nestor FTW. Then it will even be in line with other blops cost wise. I think they still use the logistics aspect in WH. That's if they use it at all. There are way better choices for WH than the Nestor. Logi battleships are just a big bag of fail. There's a reason they never released any to begin with. They would have either been OP or a complete failure. The Nestor is the latter. No subcap reps harder. It sees very common use on blinged out hotdrops.
Rivr Luzade Kenshin. DARKNESS. 2060	Posted - 2015.10.30 09:06:58 - [16] - Quote Valacus wrote: Give the Nestor anything but exploration bonuses. No one uses it to explore. It's the wrong ship class. Technically, Nestors are a quite amazing ship for running Combat Gas Hacking Sites, where you need to kill NPCs in order to be able to hack and access the hacking containers. So, there are uses both in W-space and in K-Space where the Nestor has a role it can fill quite well. UI Improvement Collective My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 979	Posted - 2015.10.30 09:33:42 - [17] - Quote Logi + Drones was a wet dream before they came out with +tracking bonus for drones. They basically designed a ship specifically for how many Domis were fit for years--spider tanks and drones. Nestor is a great ship, and not just in wormholes. Replacing the scanning bonus will never happen. The scanning and exploration bonuses were specifically pointed out as being an extra bonus on the ship and if they were removed they would not be replaced with anything. All the repeated calls asking for a better bonus in their place can only hurt the ship. The ship is a solid.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1513	Posted - 2015.10.30 10:39:34 - [18] - Quote TL/DR I don't understand the design concept and uses of a Nestor so it is obviously broken. Even though it is in line with it's sister ships the asteros and the stratios, I can't find a use for it as is. Please rework the Nestor into an OP BLOPs/combat/logi/mission ship so that I can benefit from it's use. (PRO HINT: eve is all about me)
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 967	Posted - 2015.10.30 13:00:01 - [19] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: TL/DR I don't understand the design concept and uses of a Nestor so it is obviously broken. Even though it is in line with it's sister ships the asteros and the stratios, I can't find a use for it as is. Please rework the Nestor into an OP BLOPs/combat/logi/mission ship so that I can benefit from it's use. (PRO HINT: eve is all about me) I have an idea!! Let's be a douche instead of having a civil conversation!! It's obvious the Nestor is extremely niche. Is there something wrong with discussing making a ship more viable in multiple situations? Besides, everyone knows CCP isn't grabbing ideas from the forums. So, this is more like a "what if", as opposed to a "do this". Having said that, I know life has been disappointing for you, and Eve is the only place you can go and burn that aggression by disappointing others, but we're not in game right now. I'm sure you're just trying to follow your tough guy persona that you've established in game, but you must understand; speaking to me in that manner, in person, would accomplish nothing more than getting your nose broken, some bruised ribs, and possibly a fractured eye socket. Just because you're safely on the other side of a computer does not mean that you should be a douche. So, let's have a conversation and you can save the Douchery for blowing people up in game.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1513	Posted - 2015.10.30 13:32:30 - [20] - Quote It's a great ship that does amazing things. It's fine, leave it alone. Let me bottom line it for you: When Navy Caracals start landing on grid the FC giggles and keeps fighting. When Nestors start landing on grid the FC has to do a gut check and decide to primary them or gtfo. That's telling me the ship is perfectly fine. I'll give you that my response is snarky, but it's also true and valid. If someones feelings are all ouchy based on my wording... I'll sleep ok tonight. This whole thread is akin to someone finding a bomblike thing with a digital timer set to AB:5*:3Q with characters counting down on it. You're not really sure exactly what it is, how it works or what it's even doing, but you decide to get out your Webelo tool set and start changing stuff around anyway. When folks feel obligated to start messing with things the don't use to improve them - yeah I get snarky.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 967	Posted - 2015.10.30 14:22:52 - [21] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: When folks feel obligated to start messing with things the don't use to improve them - yeah I get snarky. Fair enough. However, to be fair on my end, I can only make a basis on what I'm involved with. In WH space the ship may perform quite well, but outside of WH space I don't ever see it being used. That said, I suppose WH space can have at least one ship that's basically just for them.
Serendipity Lost Repo Industries 1515	Posted - 2015.10.30 15:32:09 - [22] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: Serendipity Lost wrote: When folks feel obligated to start messing with things the don't use to improve them - yeah I get snarky. Fair enough. However, to be fair on my end, I can only make a basis on what I'm involved with. In WH space the ship may perform quite well, but outside of WH space I don't ever see it being used. That said, I suppose WH space can have at least one ship that's basically just for them. respect and space hugs all around then
Valacus Shattered Silver 3	Posted - 2015.10.30 19:49:43 - [23] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: It's a great ship that does amazing things. It's fine, leave it alone. Let me bottom line it for you: When Navy Caracals start landing on grid the FC giggles and keeps fighting. When Nestors start landing on grid the FC has to do a gut check and decide to primary them or gtfo. That's telling me the ship is perfectly fine. I'll give you that my response is snarky, but it's also true and valid. If someones feelings are all ouchy based on my wording... I'll sleep ok tonight. This whole thread is akin to someone finding a bomblike thing with a digital timer set to AB:5:3Q with characters counting down on it. You're not really sure exactly what it is, how it works or what it's even doing, but you decide to get out your Webelo tool set and start changing stuff around anyway. When folks feel obligated to start messing with things the don't use to improve them - yeah I get snarky. That's not an argument. You always have to do a gut check when you see a 1bil ISK ship show up on grid, because odds are high it could be bait. That doesn't make the ship good. Not by a long shot. That makes it suspicious. afkalt wrote:* No subcap reps harder. It sees very common use on blinged out hotdrops. So what if no other sub cap "reps harder". It costs a bil just for the hull. You may as well bring a carrier and rep even harder. Blinged out hot drops? You mean a situation where you are positive you're going to win anyways, so you can bring just about anything you choose? Oh yes, that totally makes the ship good. It might get used in a fight where odds of victory are completely assured. By that extension, the Hel and the Nidhogger are fine too. They win every one sided fight where they're on the one side. AOK, move along to balance something else.
Kenrailae Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 526	Posted - 2015.10.31 01:45:04 - [24] - Quote Confirming Hel and Nidhoggur are both quite capable ships as well. They are not an Aeon or Archon though. People try to force them to be. A Nestor is Not a blops, nor is it a logi, nor a typical battleship. Trying to force it to be something it is not will not give a positive result. As a Nestor, it is a great ship. The Law is a point of View
The Hamilton Isogen 5 110	Posted - 2015.10.31 06:19:00 - [25] - Quote Make it black ops, and it's fixed and has a unique role, especially if BlackOps are going to get the nerf stick sometime SoonGäó. DONE.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 254	Posted - 2015.10.31 12:14:57 - [26] - Quote The Hamilton wrote: Make it black ops, and it's fixed and has a unique role, especially if BlackOps are going to get the nerf stick sometime SoonGäó. DONE. Apologies in advance for thread derailment, but why would Blackops get nerfed? I've not flown them myself, and probably won't ever, but everything I've heard is that they're balanced. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2338	Posted - 2015.10.31 13:08:00 - [27] - Quote Valacus wrote: afkalt wrote: No subcap reps harder. It sees very common use on blinged out hotdrops. So what if no other sub cap "reps harder". It costs a bil just for the hull. You may as well bring a carrier and rep even harder. Blinged out hot drops? You mean a situation where you are positive you're going to win anyways, so you can bring just about anything you choose? Oh yes, that totally makes the ship good. It might get used in a fight where odds of victory are completely assured. By that extension, the Hel and the Nidhogger are fine too. They win every one sided fight where they're on the one side. AOK, move along to balance something else. BRB, jumping my archon into Jita. Oh. Wait. Also confirming that no hotdrop ever has preparation for a counter drop.
Valacus Shattered Silver 6	Posted - 2015.10.31 23:39:23 - [28] - Quote afkalt wrote: Valacus wrote: afkalt wrote: No subcap reps harder. It sees very common use on blinged out hotdrops. So what if no other sub cap "reps harder". It costs a bil just for the hull. You may as well bring a carrier and rep even harder. Blinged out hot drops? You mean a situation where you are positive you're going to win anyways, so you can bring just about anything you choose? Oh yes, that totally makes the ship good. It might get used in a fight where odds of victory are completely assured. By that extension, the Hel and the Nidhogger are fine too. They win every one sided fight where they're on the one side. AOK, move along to balance something else. BRB, jumping my archon into Jita. Oh. Wait. Also confirming that no hotdrop ever has preparation for a counter drop. You can't jump portal into Jita either. Your arguments just make less and less sense.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 967	Posted - 2015.10.31 23:49:53 - [29] - Quote Valacus wrote: You can't jump portal into Jita either. Your arguments just make less and less sense. I think that's his point. IE, capitals can't go into HS and nothing in HS reps harder than the Nestor. However, I'm not entirely sure where he was going with that argument, as far as countering anything he was quoting...
Reaver Glitterstim Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore 2705	Posted - 2015.11.01 18:11:43 - [30] - Quote I like this idea. The Nestor is a pricey niche ship, so I'm okay with it being able to launch ten drones. I'd like to see a lot more ships have reduced drone bays, mostly non-drone-boat ships that don't need to be launching five drones. That way every time I hear people beg to fly a ship that can launch more drones, I'll just tell them to fly a Nestor. Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm The Succubus looks meaner But the Revenant cleaner Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 968	Posted - 2015.11.01 18:34:45 - [31] - Quote Reaver Glitterstim wrote: I like this idea. The Nestor is a pricey niche ship, so I'm okay with it being able to launch ten drones. I'd like to see a lot more ships have reduced drone bays, mostly non-drone-boat ships that don't need to be launching five drones. That way every time I hear people beg to fly a ship that can launch more drones, I'll just tell them to fly a Nestor. That was basically my mentality. As long as there's not a heavy drone boat in the sub-cap fleet, there's always going to be requests for one. My only other suggestion would to be to create another t2 BS class for all the races, using the meta 3 hulls. If that happened, they would have drone bonuses specific to racial drones.

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