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plastic fantastic	Posted - 2006.12.31 20:27:00 - [1] Edited by: plastic fantastic on 31/12/2006 20:29:42 i'll buy this bad cat approx in 2 months after training and my plan is 5x 220mm, corpum 19km nos mwd t2, domi disruptor, LSE, gistii small booster 2x gyro, 2x instabs, nano (not sure about second part) so what do u recommend for solo flyin?
Amun Krul	Posted - 2006.12.31 20:34:00 - [2] An updated pod?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.31 20:53:00 - [3] Originally by: plastic fantastic Edited by: plastic fantastic on 31/12/2006 20:29:42 i'll buy this bad cat approx in 2 months after training and my plan is 5x 220mm, corpum 19km nos mwd t2, domi disruptor, LSE, gistii small booster 2x gyro, 2x instabs, nano (not sure about second part) so what do u recommend for solo flyin? If you have PG left over, and you should. Stick on falloff rigs for even more range. With tech 2 falloff rigs you should top out at 21.6km falloff. Which is better than the base maximum on large autocannons, and breaks the range of your corpum NOS even. It will be a large damage increase at all ranges you expect to be operating out of. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Kulmid Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.31 20:56:00 - [4] its rule #2 fly fast and don't die
wierchas noobhunter Caldari Kemono.	Posted - 2006.12.31 21:17:00 - [5] fall of rigs ? i am WIERCHAS i am like UBER and stuff
EwokPoacher Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:58:00 - [6] I love rule #2
Crimsonjade Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.02 08:53:00 - [7] Edited by: Crimsonjade on 02/01/2007 08:57:04 Originally by: plastic fantastic Edited by: plastic fantastic on 31/12/2006 20:29:42 i'll buy this bad cat approx in 2 months after training and my plan is 5x 220mm, corpum 19km nos mwd t2, domi disruptor, LSE, gistii small booster 2x gyro, 2x instabs, nano (not sure about second part) so what do u recommend for solo flyin? well just my opinion here but loose the nos and run a cloaker, sometimes ya gotta hide:) mids drop the booster and run 2 sheild extders 7k shields will help* alt is 1 sheild ext and a 15k webby for frigs and nano phoons lows 5 nanos. its not a damage ship and never will be, its incredible tackler in a group set of snakes and others built for speed and you have one very fast and hard to hit vaga Auxiliary Thrusters I and Propellant Injection Vent I work for me. with a standered 8765 mwd and like 925 ish base speed speed= life
Cheese999 Minmatar Spitefully Targeting Foolishly Underskilled The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:37:00 - [8] Falloff rigs are the win for ACing minmatar. Maybe get a Gisti MWD if you can afford it. Originally by: Crimsonjade ...not a damage ship and never will be, its incredible tackler in a group... Oh, and as for using a 150mil+ HAC as a heavy tackler in a gang, your dreaming. ----- There is no Spoon Minmatar: Bending over for Tux since RmR Originally by: Outa Rileau bring a nosdomi to a fleet, and your fc will most likely call you primary.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:44:00 - [9] Originally by: Crimsonjade Edited by: Crimsonjade on 02/01/2007 09:00:26 Edited by: Crimsonjade on 02/01/2007 08:57:04 Originally by: plastic fantastic Edited by: plastic fantastic on 31/12/2006 20:29:42 i'll buy this bad cat approx in 2 months after training and my plan is 5x 220mm, corpum 19km nos mwd t2, domi disruptor, LSE, gistii small booster 2x gyro, 2x instabs, nano (not sure about second part) so what do u recommend for solo flyin? well just my opinion here but loose the nos and run a cloaker, sometimes ya gotta hide:) mids drop the booster and run 2 sheild extders 7k shields will help*goos mwd and a20km+ disruptor, alt is 1 sheild ext and a 15k webby for frigs and nano phoons lows 5 nanos. its not a damage ship and never will be, its incredible tackler in a group set of snakes and others built for speed and you have one very fast and hard to hit vaga Auxiliary Thrusters I and Propellant Injection Vent I work for me. with a standered 8765 mwd and like 925 ish base speed speed= life vaga= THE solo ship in this game... not for damage my ass it has great damage
Marcathonas The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:08:00 - [10] Uber haxx gang speed: 2 local hull Istabs, 3 Domi overdrives (istabs make it worth about 3-4 nanos of agility, IIRC), 2 15% MWD rigs, gistum a. Uber haxx pwning things in the face: 2 local hull Istabs, 1 domi overdrive, 2 gyrostabs of taste. Falloff rigs, gistum MWD, Domi scram, full set of skirmish warfare bonuses, barrage M, and the barrel of pwn that is killing things in a 35km orbit. Please, send me billions of isk so I may do this. It's for a good cause.
Abye Caldari UNITED STARS ORGANISATION	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Deathbarrage vaga= THE solo ship in this game... not for damage my ass it has great damage It has ok damage, not GREAT. With its high speed it is very easy to prey on the easy targets and run from anything that outguns you.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.02 11:18:00 - [12] btw.. how a vagabond hits another vagabond when they are orbiting at a combiend speed of 12km/s ? :P If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Shoele Lialos Gallente Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:10:00 - [13] Isn't there a special WCS Rig just for Vagas?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:14:00 - [14] speaking on that.. since it affect two stack nerfed attributes. Wouldsn t the use of 2 Named Sensor boosters and 2 Stabs make the first stab penalty go 50% and the second one go pityfull percentage? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:32:00 - [15] I wonder if any people who posted in this thread actually fly vagabond. It really doesn't seem that way. 5x 220 II, Corpum Nos 2x LSE II, domi mwd, domi disruptor 2x PDU II (or better), 1x local hull istab, 2x gyro II 9.2k shields with my skills... also get a set of at least LG snake implants. Oh p.s. 2 pgrid free with awu4, you need awu5 for falloff rig iirc. Also, this can sustain the mwd forever with lvl5 cap skills. Alternative (don't recommend it as much). 5x 220 II, corpum nos 1x lse II, 1x 14 or 15km web, domi disruptor, domi mwd 2x local hull istabs, 1x local hull nano, 2x gyro II Rigs for both: Kinetic resist and speed or if you have awu5, falloff. All about target jamming
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:40:00 - [16] use 180MM II and you can fit the falloff rig. not THAt great dps loss If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:51:00 - [17] Originally by: Kagura Nikon use 180MM II and you can fit the falloff rig. not THAt great dps loss What would be the point of that? You fit the falloff rig to increase dps, smaller guns decrease dps. Also, they eat more ammo, it's not like vagabond doesn't eat enough ammo already... What's up with people lately on this forum posting about stuff they have no clue about... please at least stop to think for 1 minute before you hit the post reply button. All about target jamming
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:38:00 - [18] Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Kagura Nikon use 180MM II and you can fit the falloff rig. not THAt great dps loss What would be the point of that? You fit the falloff rig to increase dps, smaller guns decrease dps. Also, they eat more ammo, it's not like vagabond doesn't eat enough ammo already... What's up with people lately on this forum posting about stuff they have no clue about... please at least stop to think for 1 minute before you hit the post reply button. because you can fit 2 of them and the damage WILl be higher. I dont need to have avagabond to run math you know that? Even high school should teach enough for that. And you also get better tracking from them If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
F1RSTBL00D Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:54:00 - [19] teehee...
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:00:00 - [20] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 20:01:40 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Kagura Nikon use 180MM II and you can fit the falloff rig. not THAt great dps loss What would be the point of that? You fit the falloff rig to increase dps, smaller guns decrease dps. Also, they eat more ammo, it's not like vagabond doesn't eat enough ammo already... What's up with people lately on this forum posting about stuff they have no clue about... please at least stop to think for 1 minute before you hit the post reply button. because you can fit 2 of them and the damage WILl be higher. I dont need to have avagabond to run math you know that? Even high school should teach enough for that. And you also get better tracking from them Did you know that falloff rigs get stacking penalized? GG nub go back to school. Oh and... do me a favor and go fly a vagabond, and see how your ammo usage is. Also tracking is not an issue on a vagabond, and 2 falloff rigs are not going to increase damage enough to warrant switching to lower guns. So yeah, go do your math, buy a vagabond, kill about 500 people with it, and then come back and argue with me. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:10:00 - [21] Originally by: Ryysa Did you know that falloff rigs get stacking penalized? GG nub go back to school. Oh and... do me a favor and go fly a vagabond, and see how your ammo usage is. Also tracking is not an issue on a vagabond, and 2 falloff rigs are not going to increase damage enough to warrant switching to lower guns. So yeah, go do your math, buy a vagabond, kill about 500 people with it, and then come back and argue with me. Dual 180m > 220mm on a vagabond anyday. Tracking is very much an issue and the dps loss is minimal. When I see vagas with 220mm's I just laugh at the noobs flying them. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Ryysa Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 20:01:40 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Ryysa Originally by: Kagura Nikon use 180MM II and you can fit the falloff rig. not THAt great dps loss What would be the point of that? You fit the falloff rig to increase dps, smaller guns decrease dps. Also, they eat more ammo, it's not like vagabond doesn't eat enough ammo already... What's up with people lately on this forum posting about stuff they have no clue about... please at least stop to think for 1 minute before you hit the post reply button. because you can fit 2 of them and the damage WILl be higher. I dont need to have avagabond to run math you know that? Even high school should teach enough for that. And you also get better tracking from them Did you know that falloff rigs get stacking penalized? GG nub go back to school. Oh and... do me a favor and go fly a vagabond, and see how your ammo usage is. Also tracking is not an issue on a vagabond, and 2 falloff rigs are not going to increase damage enough to warrant switching to lower guns. So yeah, go do your math, buy a vagabond, kill about 500 people with it, and then come back and argue with me. 180s do 5% less damage than 220s. 2 falloff rigs will take your falloff over 20km, up by 40%[if they are stack nerfed, which there isnt really a reason to believe they will be]. Now, if you are fighting in falloff, say, at your 1/2 hit falloff then the 180s are going to be hitting about 75% of the time and the 220's are going to be hitting about 50% of the time. So the 180s will do 5% less damage, and end up dealing 42.5% more damage after you take into account the fact that the 180s do 5% less DPS. Oh, and did you know that 180's do the SAME damage over time once you count reloading into the equation as 220s?[Actualy its about 1.2% less, but that is a pittance when you are boosting damage by 40% from extra hits due to longer falloff]. Now, the closer you fight to your optimal, the less of a damage boost this is going to be. But who the hell fights at their optimal with a vagabond? In short, you are a fool, the 180s are going to do loads and loads more damage in most situations and you should do some freaking math. P.S. also, do you have evidence that they are stacking penalized? I havent seen anything to that effect before. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Talasan The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2007.01.02 20:39:00 - [23] nowt wrong with dual 180's, especially now with the tracking hit on barrage "minmatar got the shaft again? sure ill bend over right away"
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.02 21:09:00 - [24] Edited by: Ryysa on 02/01/2007 21:12:33 Originally by: Hoshi Dual 180m > 220mm on a vagabond anyday. Tracking is very much an issue and the dps loss is minimal. When I see vagas with 220mm's I just laugh at the noobs flying them. Vaga does /not/ have tracking issues, if you have tracking issues you are flying it wrong imo. Dual 180's eat more ammo, which is the biggest issue. Also, iirc, falloff rigs are stacking nerfed with gyros (might be wrong here). And they are deffo stacking nerfed between eachother. Also, unless you are completely retarded, one of your rig slots will /always/ be taken up by a kinetic resist rig. Also, you hardly need to reload with 220's... but those things you realize after you fly the ship :P All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
CRUSH3R Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:38:00 - [25] I was flying in: 5180mm t2, coprum nos 10mwd rare, 26km dis, 2lse t2 3gyro, 2inertia stabs this ship does 3.5km\second on a t1 rare mwd, has agility of af. That's why I put 180mm t2 instead of 220's.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:00:00 - [26] Originally by: Ryysa I wonder if any people who posted in this thread actually fly vagabond. It really doesn't seem that way. 5x 220 II, Corpum Nos 2x LSE II, domi mwd, domi disruptor 2x PDU II (or better), 1x local hull istab, 2x gyro II All vagas should use gistii boosters. They're so cheap now that there isn't really a reason not to. PDS will slow you down over nanos/istabs, and speed is the name of the game.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Ryysa Dual 180's eat more ammo, which is the biggest issue. Also, iirc, falloff rigs are stacking nerfed with gyros (might be wrong here). And they are deffo stacking nerfed between eachother. Do you hear that? That is the sound of your credibility being thrown out of a window. Gyro's and FALLOFF mods cant stack because one increases damage and Rof and one increases falloff. also you havent provided proof that they are stacking nerfed. You have asserted it, but not provided any information that would lead a reasonable person to conclude so, not even an "I tested it on the test server and got these results" P.S. I used tech 2 mods with stacking, and used 2 of them. Anywho lets do the math. 20km falloff vs 23 km falloff. @ 20km damage from 20km falloff weapon= .5 @ 20km damage from 23km falloff weapon= ~.56521 Difference = 1.1304 or 13.04% Difference in damage between 220 and 180[perfect] 1.0650 or 6.5% Difference in damage between 220 and 190[reload] 1.0182 or 1.82% Difference in damage between 220@20km and 180@23km at 20km = 1.06132 or 6.132% in favor of the 220's in a perfect situation, 11% after considering reloads. Almost as if the vagabond were able to upgrade to 425's under perfect conditions! BTW, not only did you fail to realize that you will be using ammo that reduces your optimal range[ergo the optimal range is half that] or ammo that is going to increaes the falloff[making the difference between fallofs even more pronounced], you failed to do the math correctly. 61.84/56.75 =1.089 or 8.9% not 5%. You also are only accounting for 1 tech 1 falloff rig, when 2 tech 2 fallof rigs or 2 tech 1 falloff rig fit before getting anywhere near the PG use of the 220s. These make the difference even larger. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Awox I Fought Piranhas	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:19:00 - [28] Edited by: Awox on 03/01/2007 05:25:27 Doesn't this ship only have two rig-slots? So it's 220mm Vulcan Autocanon II + 1 fall off rig + 1 spare rig slot - more speed, or more kinetic resist, more shield, etc - less ammo consumptions - slightly worse tracking or Dual 180mm Autocannon II + 2 fall off rigs - both rigs are falloff rigs - 14% more damage in falloff over 220mm - more ammo consumption - slightly better tracking I think when I do get a Vagabond I will use the 220mm option, so I can put a more useful rig in and keep ammo consumption down a bit too. Unless anyone can point out where I went wrong?
Dr Fighter	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:23:00 - [29] what the hell are you talking about, falloff just increases your dmg at the same ranges that without the rigs it wouldnt. So at optimal + 50% of your falloff you will hit better than at the same range with rigs (say 25% into falloff now) you'll do more dmg as the reduction from falloff is less. Thos it also mean you'll do mroe dmg at extreme ranges (opt + falloff)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Awox Edited by: Awox on 03/01/2007 05:25:27 Doesn't this ship only have two rig-slots? So it's 220mm Vulcan Autocanon II + 1 fall off rig + 1 spare rig slot - more speed, or more kinetic resist, more shield, etc - less ammo consumptions - slightly worse tracking or Dual 180mm Autocannon II + 2 fall off rigs - both rigs are falloff rigs - 14% more damage in falloff over 220mm - more ammo consumption - slightly better tracking I think when I do get a Vagabond I will use the 220mm option, so I can put a more useful rig in and keep ammo consumption down a bit too. Unless anyone can point out where I went wrong? You get about 5-8% better with 1 falloff to 2 fallof rigs. The difference is that with 220's you typically cannot fit any falloff rigs. So that the 180's do significantly more damage due to the falloff bonuses[as you will be fighting in falloff with a vagabond] The 220's give you other rig options and a bit less ammo use[which shouldnt be an issue post Kali due to the ammo size decrease[you can carry twice as much] and the AC rof/damage changes[you shoot 50% slower, meaning 33% less ammo usage, no DPS changes from previous] That being said, I think that damage is the best bet here, the Vagabond goes fast enough as it is, does the difference between 4km/s and 5km/s make that much in the grand scheme? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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