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Asestorian
Minmatar
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.01 21:57:00 -
[31]
Camping gates is the only way to defend territory. If you didn't camp gates people would just be running around ganking all the miners, or at least, there would be more of them. There is nothing wrong or bad about camping gates. You bring friends to break up a camp, and if you go solo, well then, it was your fault you took that risk.
Use the map, and get a scout in a fast frigate and you can easily avoid most gate camps. EVE is a PvP game, however it isn't fair in any way, and nor does it want to be fair. That's what your mistake is, you assume it should be fair, when it shouldn't, there is no reason for it to be fair, and if you don't like that then.. well, you aren't being forced to play EVE.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:07:00 -
[32]
"Haha, are you stupid or what?
1. They aren't 'spawn' camping. EVE isn't a FPS.
2. The Raven DIDN'T warp off.
3. The Raven wasn't AFK.
4. It logged off, because it was scrambled. It then disappeared.
5. What does having slow ships have to do with anything?
6. Recons are more expensive than BS with weaker tanks. So why would flying one in PvP make you a coward?
7. EVE isn't a credible PvP game? WTF!? It's the ONLY MMO PvP game atm. The others are PvE games with weak, consequence-less PvP thrown in.
Please, grow a clue."
Wow 60 IQ FTL.
1) of course they are spawn camping, it doesnt need to be a fps to spawn camp HAHAHAAH. You load into the new system the game spawns you at the gate, which these people camp.... thus they are spawn camping. Only a dullard cannot understand something so simple.
2) Semantics if the raven warps off or vanishes, the point was they were unable to kill it before it vanished or warped when the guy logged.
3) agian semantics the moment the guy logs out.... uhm nooone is controlling the ship therefore it might as well be afk ... pretty simple to understand lol.
4)Yes of course it did noone is questioning that. The reason he logged is because he had no chance because he was gona be ganked by spawn campers.
5) slow ships has everything to do with it. It puts the campers at risk if someone busts the camp. These guys are all using pee shooters because they know they are a very safe bet if a camp busting groups comes through. IE they lack the guts to even spawn camp properly.
6) They are the same price, but gain the safety of cloaking. There is no point discussing this we know dam well why they are using them instead of a BS themselves.... of which had they used the guy never would have made this thread because they would have popped the raven before it poofed.
7)No EVe isn;t a credible pvp game regardless of how bad you wish it was. It isnt the only mmo pvp game atm king clueless. It does have consequences however you finally said something correct. Unfortunately the consequences can easily be bypassed by exploting basic game mechanics like spawn camping. If you had a clue you would understand that it is not heavy consequences that make good pvp. It is instead very competitive and challenging gameplay that makes great pvp gameplay, in which case they are many more immensly better options for pvp than eve.
But hey you keep on fooling yourself into thinking your a great pvp billy bad arse player
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:20:00 -
[33]
"Camping gates is the only way to defend territory. If you didn't camp gates people would just be running around ganking all the miners, or at least, there would be more of them. There is nothing wrong or bad about camping gates. You bring friends to break up a camp, and if you go solo, well then, it was your fault you took that risk."
wait a sec shouldnt you be defending the miners? Since when are you supposed to have risk free mining in 0.0? That is the point the problem is you are scared of the risk and thus remove it by gate camping that is a good part of why it is wrong. The other reason is it is simply spawn camping.
I mean the point of 0.0 is that miners can get raided it is dangerous unpredictable etc... what you advocate is what is wrong with eve you guys have turned 0.0 into a bigger carebearland than empire camp a few gates and you are ultra safe...
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:25:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
wait a sec shouldnt you be defending the miners? Since when are you supposed to have risk free mining in 0.0? That is the point the problem is you are scared of the risk and thus remove it by gate camping that is a good part of why it is wrong. The other reason is it is simply spawn camping.
It is obvious to me that your great deal of experience that 2 years,2 months, and 22 days in the Republic Military have given you about 0.0 operations is much more than I could ever have hoped to have learned from spending over two years in a combination of Fountain Alliance, Vertigo Coalition and Morsus Mihi. Please elaborate upon your experiences so that those of us that don't know what we're doing can do things better.
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Trespasser
Caldari
e X i l e
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Voculus
You seriously need to work on your cinematography skills. It took over 30 seconds for you to rip-off the over-used, and now unfunny Mastercard intro, before we saw any video.
Sit down and never post again that would be great thx
My name is Trespasser and I approved this Message!
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Sir Dancealot
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:34:00 -
[36]
Got to say that I love the song, where can I get it? 
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Khandrish
Caldari
Dominatus Sidereus
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Khandrish on 01/01/2007 22:36:05
Oh yes, gate camping is the safest thing possible in EVE because nobody will ever be able to make out what ships you have or know exactly where you are going to be. And I think everyone knows that there has NEVER been a gate camp broken up in EVE...ever.
I mean honestly I don't understand why people don't gate camp with bubbles or dictors 24/7 as it IS the I-WIN button of EVE.
/sarcasm off
Now beyond that, you have so very obviously never ever been in 0.0 or flown in gangs or fleets or tried to defend territory or haulers because if you had it might occur to you the logistical nightmare it would become to sit in a belt and try to defend your miners in the belt. Sniper ships hitting your miners from 200k out before they can warp out or you can get to them (It happens) or cloaked ships popping out of nowhere to nail that hauler picking up the old can while the rest of you are moving on to another roid (seen it happen) so think before you post.
Go out, get the experience (or if you have this so called experience stop positing with an alt who has never left the starting corp) and swallow your pride long enough to learn that gate camping IS the best way to defend a system but that it's also very very dangerous. In part because your not always right on the gate and if a superior force jumps in you can't jump out either. And if your right on the gate we all know that nobody would ever be smart enough to flush anyone into the next system...oh no.
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CEO biohazard
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:36:00 -
[38]
Edited by: CEO biohazard on 01/01/2007 22:36:28
Quote:
Got to say that I love the song, where can I get it?
msg me ingame and ill give you a link for it.
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Kronos1713
e X i l e
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Voculus
You seriously need to work on your cinematography skills. It took over 30 seconds for you to rip-off the over-used, and now unfunny Mastercard intro, before we saw any video.
Nice job on COMPLETELY missing the point. kthnx.
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2007.01.01 22:54:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Nero Scuro on 01/01/2007 22:54:02
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Wow 60 IQ FTL.
Immature pointless insults!? OMG HE FOUND MY WEAKSPOT I AM DEFEATED!!!
YARRRGHBBBL
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
1) of course they are spawn camping, it doesnt need to be a fps to spawn camp HAHAHAAH. You load into the new system the game spawns you at the gate, which these people camp.... thus they are spawn camping. Only a dullard cannot understand something so simple.
It's called JUMPING IN. The TERM spawning refers to FPS'. In EVE you do not spawn. There is no technical definition for what counts as spawning and what doesn't, it's just a term, a term which doesn't apply to EVE, dumbasss.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
2) Semantics if the raven warps off or vanishes, the point was they were unable to kill it before it vanished or warped when the guy logged.
It shows you lack a basic understanding of the topic at hand.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
3) agian semantics the moment the guy logs out.... uhm nooone is controlling the ship therefore it might as well be afk ... pretty simple to understand lol.
They're nothing alike. If he was AFK he would've died. Again, a basic lack of any understanding of anything at all, ever.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
4)Yes of course it did noone is questioning that. The reason he logged is because he had no chance because he was gona be ganked by spawn campers.
So you think meta-gaming is a solution to all your problems? If you suck and get ganked by rats do you think the solution is to log out? Why bother having any risk at all in that case? Why not just give everyone invulnerability buttons that stop them from firing their weapons but make them impervious?
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
5) slow ships has everything to do with it. It puts the campers at risk if someone busts the camp. These guys are all using pee shooters because they know they are a very safe bet if a camp busting groups comes through. IE they lack the guts to even spawn camp properly.
HAHAHAHAHA! Recon ships pea-shooters? Why would anyone ever fly a 100mil pea-shooter?
And it doesn't matter if you're in a slow ship or not, if someone jumps in they're RIGHT ON TOP OF YOU. They just have to lock and scram, which will take about... I dunno... 3 seconds in an inty? You're hardly safe because you're in a cruiser.
You have obviously NEVER PvPed.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
6) They are the same price, but gain the safety of cloaking. There is no point discussing this we know dam well why they are using them instead of a BS themselves.... of which had they used the guy never would have made this thread because they would have popped the raven before it poofed.
Pilgrim = 100mil last I checked.
Cloak = 80mil.
Tier 3 BS = 50mil for the insurance. Ok, throw on 25mil for mark-up because they're new. And that's just tier 3...
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
7)No EVe isn;t a credible pvp game regardless of how bad you wish it was. It isnt the only mmo pvp game atm king clueless. It does have consequences however you finally said something correct. Unfortunately the consequences can easily be bypassed by exploting basic game mechanics like spawn camping. If you had a clue you would understand that it is not heavy consequences that make good pvp. It is instead very competitive and challenging gameplay that makes great pvp gameplay, in which case they are many more immensly better options for pvp than eve.
List some, so I can tear them apart.
Please.
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
But hey you keep on fooling yourself into thinking your a great pvp billy bad arse player
What...? You said words but all I heard was myself going WTF over them?
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
Touche. You win the forums.
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The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
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Treher
Minmatar
Locust Syndicate
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.02 01:40:00 -
[41]
$ + ISK is wrong. ISK only. Please edit the video.
______________________________________________________
I forget which station container has my memory implants. |
LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2007.01.02 03:56:00 -
[42]
I used to think some of the same things as Nanobutter before I actually participated in a gate camp. You need to go do it before you talk **** about it dude. Seriously, shut your mouth.
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Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it. |
Omber Eliminator
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Posted - 2007.01.02 04:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 01/01/2007 21:36:32
Originally by: Spy4Hire
Logoffski is 100% valid, the devs have said so, time and time again.
Wrong.
Logoffski in a bubble or before-aggression-timer-activates is a bug and is not valid, but they will not take petitions about it because there is no way for them to verify it.
Now if only CCP would get off their arses and fix the bug.
I really hope that when they DO fix it they don't add the info to the patch notes.
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XF Clohvn
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Posted - 2007.01.02 04:20:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
2) Semantics if the raven warps off or vanishes, the point was they were unable to kill it before it vanished or warped when the guy logged.
The difference between escaping through a legitimate and counterable game mechanic and vanishing into thing air with no counter whatsoever is hardly semantics.
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Maya Hendrix
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Posted - 2007.01.02 04:31:00 -
[45]
I am a little confused here. I always thought that if you had points on the guy he would be unable to warp off, regardless if he/she hit control-Q. I have been involved in taking down several ships in the past where once the ship popped the pod insta warped. Then viewing local he had logged. Now the vid shows the guy vanishing and not warping off and ppl have said its the same thing (not that I have seen a ship just vanish like that) but I will go with the general concensus its the same thing. But still dont see how a ship can just warp off if you have points on it, unless it was stabbed to the eyeballs.
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Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
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Posted - 2007.01.02 04:38:00 -
[46]
I've got no issue with people who don't want to PvP. Fine, don't want to fight, then don't do it.
I take issue with people that want to take advantage of the benefits of PvP zones (to use the 'other-mmo' terminology) without actually doing it. By entering a Player corporation or travelling to low or no-sec space is consiously consenting to being open for PvP. If you don't want to fight, then you need to make that decision well before you jump into a 0.0 gate camp. At that point you've made your decision, you've consiously committed travelling in an open combat zone, now deal with it. I don't care how you beat it IN GAME. Use cloaks, shuttles, scouts, MWD, or a rack of WCS. But if you log, I want you to stay in that bubble and die.
Don't want to fight? Don't do things that label you as consenting to PvP. I mean, you don't park a Ferrari in front of a ***** house expecting to get out alive, do you? Then don't jump in alone in your mining barge where you KNOW a fleet can be waiting for you, and expect to get away unscathed.
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved
Serenity Fallen
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Posted - 2007.01.02 04:56:00 -
[47]
The lol is strong with this one.
Retired [ISSN]
[Video] Skool of Harpy - Da Blarpy |
Trespasser
Caldari
e X i l e
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Posted - 2007.01.02 06:49:00 -
[48]
yeah i really wish people wouldnt be lame, most respectable people wont do it unless ur sad like that guy and if you are you deserve to be banned tbh
My name is Trespasser and I approved this Message!
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Raptorweb
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Posted - 2007.01.02 09:27:00 -
[49]
Cheers to you Nero
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2007.01.02 10:31:00 -
[50]
Well in fact I dont think gate acmps are a problem. Only problem are 23/7 gate camps at the exist of empire (that makes very hard to people go experiment pvp and most of the game). So sentries should be stronger, specially in 0.4 and getting weaker til 0.1
Also the warp to zero made it all worse. I found camping on other side much more fun. You had chance to warp to 100km check if you wanted. You had chance to scan it. You have the immense pleasure of huting someone while he tried to reach the gate (or runnign away , siccne was a lot more fun for the victim also).
On my point of view, instas should have been removed (no bookmarks under 30 km from gates and all jump to bookmarks have an imprecision ok up to 15 km in any direction. And remove warp to zero.
As for now, blockade runners are nothing special.. their inherent advantages help nothing.
Much better pvp to the game. MUCH better.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
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Za Po
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.02 11:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
But hey you keep on fooling yourself into thinking your a great pvp billy bad arse player
You seem to be under the impression that "PVP" is synonim with "duel" or "consensual 1 vs 1", and that "being good at PvP" is about "being good at shooting other ships and resist being shot at". This is mistaken.
"PvP" encompasses economical warfare, strategy and tactics, controlling territory, and, yes, 5 vs 1 fights where you do not stand a chance and the superior party is under no risk whatsoever. And "being good at PvP" involves such things as "being able to gather multiple players to defend a chokepoint, organize them, assign each a role, and make it worthwhile (because they are protecting miners or ratters or whatever)".
Also, "being bad at PvP" involves such things as "not scouting" and "going alone in a place controlled by a superior force". In other words, the Raven pilot was a terrible PvPer in the OP's case - regardless of his l33t m1ss1l3 sk1llz - and should have died for it.
Bottom line, I do not see the reason for which you should be allowed to escape a force that outnumbers you five-to-one and is explicitly designed not to let you escape. Other games allow you to do so, but other games are designed with heroism in mind and feature artificial limitations designed to always give you a chance (such as restricting PvP to consensual-only or nearly so) and maximizing the impact of gear, levels and twitch while minimizing planning. They seek to avoid hopeless situations, and planning is all about giving the enemy no chance at all. Eve isn't hot on heroism and hope.
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Jack Creme
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Posted - 2007.01.02 12:08:00 -
[52]
Apropos the YouTube vid thingy. Are they always so fuzzy and out of focus?
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BiONetworks
Caldari
e X i l e
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:24:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jack Creme
Apropos the YouTube vid thingy. Are they always so fuzzy and out of focus?
yes youtube sucks, theres a higher res version earlier in the posting.
As far as i can tell as long as people log before decloaking their ship will disapear within 30 seconds. It is most disapointing to watch a raven disapear when in structure but hopefully more posts like these will push ccp to make a change. From what i have been told, this was allowed in game so when the large fleets jump in and they lag out, there arnt 100 ships destroyed because of lag outs. Sort of an emergency warp without the warp. Though its a fairly good idea, i disagree as situations like this one are not appropriate as he wasnt jumping 150 man fleet into antoher 150 man fleet. Im sure theres better ways of handling situations like these, but a raven just vanishing into thin air is not one of them.
And to everyone who loves my videos quality :P it was new years eve, i was drunk. Taking my time to make the cinimatics great was not the reason for making this video, so weather its the $$$ or the way it was made, too bad. dont watch it if it really bothers you that much, k thx.
Your signature is too large. Please see the Forum Rules for the limits - Serathu ([email protected])
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MindBender
Acheron Vanguard Armada
The Shadow Ascension
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:44:00 -
[54]
Argh, I hate this so very much... This happened to my alliance recently at a Large Bubble gate camp... Raven logged out and then warped off while being Scrammed and in the Bubble. He then logged back in, came back into the bubble, once again scrammbed and in bubble... then logged off and warped off again. While the logout->dissappear one sucks more (I think I am seeing a partern with Dictor bubbles on this one), we scanned the guy out and blew up his ship and then scanned out his pod and made it go squish. 
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Place Sig here (Help a man with no Sig, Eve-Mail me if you can make me one.) |
Pete Tosh
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Posted - 2007.01.02 14:50:00 -
[55]
Botter,
your clueless,
**** off back to wow
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.01.02 15:41:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 02/01/2007 15:41:06
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
>>>Please dont confuse the concept of fighting at gates with camping gates. Here is a novel idea how about fighting other people who want to fight instead of constaly looking for people unprepared and not wanting to fight? Mind boggling I know but it is how most every other pvp game works....
Until they implement interception/combat at warp, camping gates is the only means of territorial control, you imply that the only ævictimsÆ of camps are æinnocentsÆ not looking for fights, couldnÆt be further from the truth û camping choke points is the only method Alliances have of stopping hit and run attacks on miners/NPCÆers from small bands of determined pirates.
And no matter on your opinion of it (have you even seen it from the æother sideÆ?à), it is risky - unless you have overwhelming firepower (read: Large BS fleet), you can become æthe huntedÆ at any moment.
Oh and finally, PvP in Eve isn't just about fighting some willing ævolunteerÆ for the sake of it; remember the 'P word'?... some of us do use it as a source of Isk income you know... 
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.02 15:43:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Ikvar
Does anyone else really, really hate people writing
$xxx,xxx,xxx ISK
Where the hell did dollars come from?
Its new. Its called "EveBay Notation".
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[21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him |
Cipher7
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Posted - 2007.01.02 16:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Eralus
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
There should be a way to have a chance to get past gate bubble camps shouldn't there?
There is. It's called, show up with a superior force. If you don't have a superior force, then you can't get through the gate. Simple as that.
0.0 is PvP space. If a group of people want to bubble-camp a gate, then you can't expect to fly your miner through there by yourself. That's just the way it is.
If anybody can get anywhere all the time, then you've just got empire all over again.
This is why I hate big alliances, they should all die.
This isn't f*cking WoW. It shouldn't be about which alliance has a larger quantity of morons to break a camp.
There should be ways to get around a bubblecamp, there should be ways to fight guerilla war, you shouldn't need Billions in assets to be able to damage an alliance.
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Yankee Uprising
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Posted - 2007.01.02 17:01:00 -
[59]
Seems the biggest PvP whine has changed from "nobody ever comes to low sec and 0.0" to "they log off in my bubbles!" And you expected... what? Folks to happily and eagerly march single file into your kill field? No, I haven't tried logging out of a bubble (the LV folks that nailed me and podded me last week can attest to this), but I don't blame the people that do try. I have managaed to squeek past a couple of these camps, but typically, you're dead. Bubble on gates are effectively big ol glowing I Win! buttons unless you are in a major corp or alliance with the numbers to break through.
Speaking for folks like myself and most of my corp, who have outgrown empire, and WANT to get out in 0.0, there is no longer any effective way of doing so unless you have a twenty ship fleet with you. My experiences with bubble camps have mostly been like this - jump into chokepoint system, get lagged to hell by the half dozen or so so ships and around thirty drones, and typically be blown up and podded before any of the buttons I've pushed start flashing green, wake up in new clone. Ah yes, glorious combat. Nothing like going out with a flair, eh?
How else to defend your territory? I suggest talking to the empire Pirate corps. Black Sheep and a few others seem to be particularly adept at finding anyone they want to anywhere in the system they are in. And without bubbles, I might add. And I can think of about five systems that Black Sheep does a pretty good job of keeping empty. The difference here, though, is that these pirate corps know how to play the game and use their tools. Bubble camps at a gate require only training time to use the gear. Even the highly annoying Noobs on Xstacy rats can do better than that.
Ok, said my peice, so flame away.
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Ryysa
North Face Force
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Posted - 2007.01.02 17:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Eralus
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2
There should be a way to have a chance to get past gate bubble camps shouldn't there?
There is. It's called, show up with a superior force. If you don't have a superior force, then you can't get through the gate. Simple as that.
0.0 is PvP space. If a group of people want to bubble-camp a gate, then you can't expect to fly your miner through there by yourself. That's just the way it is.
If anybody can get anywhere all the time, then you've just got empire all over again.
This is why I hate big alliances, they should all die.
This isn't f*cking WoW. It shouldn't be about which alliance has a larger quantity of morons to break a camp.
There should be ways to get around a bubblecamp, there should be ways to fight guerilla war, you shouldn't need Billions in assets to be able to damage an alliance.
You don't need billions of assets, guerilla warfare is very easily possible.
The key is speed.
Make a gang with only ships that go more than 3000m/s, and you can jump into a huge camp and mwd back to the gate and jump out.
I've repeadetly jumped into 50+ man camps with my vagabond, waited 15 sec in cloak, mwded back to gate and jumped out with about 98% shields left while getting quadruple webbed and scrambled for -omgwtfbbqsauce and in a bubble...
A few examples you might be interested in:
1. Vagabond
2. Stabber
3. Nanophoon
4. Nanocurse
5. Nanodomi
There are tonnes of other solo ships of wtfpwnage with which you can easily avoid nearly any camp under 50 people and do lots of nasty stuff like ganking carebears behind enemy lines.
The reason that you don't know how to do it, doesn't mean bubblecamps should get nerfed.
Oh and, i don't understand why ppl whine about camps, this happens to me every time i go to ragoon space. I find a raven solo npcing in a belt (NOT AT A GATE, NOT CAMPING, i am alone in an alliance space, i can be ganked) the raven logs off as soon as he sees me, before i can get a lock, leaving his shield booster and hardeners on. I scramble him before he warps off, in 1 minute he disappears because i can't break his tank fast enough.
So... you hate blobs at gates right? you hate blob warfare right? Yet to kill a single ******* raven in a belt i need 2 full gank battleships if not more so i can kill him in like 30 sec.
Bull**** imo.
All about target jamming |
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