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EANM II... advantage?

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Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 10:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/01/2007 10:57:43 I've been training my armor comp skills. I've heard that 3x EANM II is better than fitting 3 actives, so I thought this was a good idea. I thought I'd play with them in quickfit. So, a ship: Hurricane All armor comp skills at 4 Resists with tech 2 active hardeners: 70.0/59.5/66.25/70.75 And now, with 3x EANM II: 84.43/53.28/61.07/66.26 WTF? Where's the advantage there (aside from the obvious extra EM - but the rest of the resists are poorer)? OK, try with armor comp skills at 5: 84.9/54.7/62.25/67.29 Once again, WTF? Am I missing something, or is Quickfit bugged? I don't have all of my armor comp skills to 4 yet (let alone 5, of course), so I can't test this. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Excellent Hauler	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:01:00 - [2] You need the corpum a type to beat the tech 2 actives, but the main advantage is the no cap use to keep the resists strong , with every one and their brothers fitting nos.
Jarjar exscape corporation	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:01:00 - [3] They don't use cap, and as such they're NOS-proof.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:06:00 - [4] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/01/2007 11:08:04 Sure, they're NOS proof. That's understandable. However, if you are running a decent tank, you're probably running an injector in the first place. Nonetheless, people constantly talk about how 3 EANM II is better than 3 actives. They talk about it as if there are no drawbacks, and now EANM IIs kill Amarr, eat babies, and killed the family dog. For a while, I bought it. Now that I look at the numbers, I'm not sure. People talk as if these are the be-all end-all of tanking. And NEVER have I seen NOS-proof mentioned before here in such discussions (though it is self evident). All I ever heard was htat 3x EANM II is better than 3x active hardeners. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Illuminaty ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:08:00 - [5] Benefits as I see them: 1 slot boosts 4 resists. If you only have 2 slots for your resists, if you plug your hole, and put on an ENAM, your going to have 4 decent looking resistances instead of 2 slightly better resistances. They make Amarr players angry.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/01/2007 11:09:24 Originally by: Illuminaty 1 slot boosts 4 resists. If you only have 2 slots for your resists, if you plug your hole, and put on an ENAM, your going to have 4 decent looking resistances instead of 2 slightly better resistances. These two points being one and the same... yes. A reasonable point. Still, this isn't pointing toward EANM IIs being the OMGWTFHAX that some people are making them out to be... It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Samirol Turbulent	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:12:00 - [7] they are situational, if you have 3 slots, i would go with 2 eanm/DCU option so you have a safety net in structure. Great being a gallente blasterthron pilot, aint it? Join channel 'Turby' ingame.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Samirol they are situational, if you have 3 slots, i would go with 2 eanm/DCU option so you have a safety net in structure. Agreed. I've done so on several occasions. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Tisanta Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:16:00 - [9] 1 eanm II 1 dcu II 3 hardner II roll on 83% resists!!!!! yarr! megathron- almighty tank of death yarr! 1x tungsten 1600 2 eanm them faction ones that r 50 mil dcu II 1 rep 1 passive exp another one of them faction ones that r 10mil errr maybe another plate? --- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:17:00 - [10] The real strength of the EAN2 setup is if you use it with a DC. A DC2 gives you the same effective resistance boost as a 3rd EAN2 with max skills and a bit of shield resistance and most importantly 60% hull resistance. 2 EAN2 + DC2 >> 3 t2 actives due to this. Even vs exp damage the effective HP boost of the first setup is greater due to the additional hull resistances. And it needs (almost) no cap and less cpu.

Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:18:00 - [11] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/01/2007 11:19:36 Originally by: Tisanta 1 eanm II 1 dcu II 3 hardner II roll on 83% resists!!!!! yarr! megathron- almighty tank of death yarr! 1x tungsten 1600 2 eanm them faction ones that r 50 mil dcu II 1 rep 1 passive exp another one of them faction ones that r 10mil errr maybe another plate? \o/ for a huge resist that that MOST people WON'T BOTHER USING against an armor tanked ship. shrug Originally by: Aramendel The real strength of the EAN2 setup is if you use it with a DC. A DC2 gives you the same effective resistance boost as a 3rd EAN2 with max skills and a bit of shield resistance and most importantly 60% hull resistance. 2 EAN2 + DC2 >> 3 t2 actives due to this. Even vs exp damage the effective HP boost of the first setup is greater due to the additional hull resistances. And it needs (almost) no cap and less cpu. Agreed on that advantage. This doesn't necessarily make EANMs the OMGWTFHAX module that many people yell about... It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv This doesn't necessarily make EANMs the OMGWTFHAX module that many people yell about... It makes it the most effective 3 slot armortank. Period. It gives you the highest HP boost - unless you are running a heavily plated setup with 3 times more armor than structure, that is. With 4 slots it's argueable, 3 actives + DC vs 3 EAN2 + DC, but for 3 slots you would have to leave yourself with one resistance hole if you want to use a DC with actives. Also, one thing to note is that minnie ships have of all races the most balanced resistances with 3 actives and the most imbalanced resistances with EAN2 since they have the racial +10% EM resistance. For gallente and amarr ships the stats are subtly different.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Aramendel It makes it the most effective 3 slot armortank. Period. It gives you the highest HP boost - unless you are running a heavily plated setup with 3 times more armor than structure, that is. Sad that in order for an armor tank to be as highly effective as possible, it must go into structure. Shield tanking ftw. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:38:00 - [14] On a 4 slot tank EANs and a hardener will acctually produce more balanced overall resists then 4 hardeners, because you can either boost all 4 types, then the lowest at the start will still be relatively low, or boost the lowest twice, and then the highest natural resist ends up as the lowest. On a 3 slot tank active hardeners are better. EANs mostly suck because of the double stacking penulty for resists. The diminishing returns on them aren't the only penulty, so by the time you added three smaller reists together you recieve much much less then using one big one, which is pretty silly.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:41:00 - [15] Edited by: Aramendel on 01/01/2007 11:44:16 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Sad that in order for an armor tank to be as highly effective as possible, it must go into structure. Shield tanking ftw. Well, the thing is that you usually cannot tank the dps of another ship of equal size indefinately. So under equal conditions your armor tank will fail at a certain point. With 3 actives the primary armortank will last about 10% longer, but with a DC2 your structure will last 2.5 times as long.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 11:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Aramendel Well, the thing is that you usually cannot tank the dps of another ship of equal size indefinately. So under equal conditions your armor tank will fail at a certain point. Yes, I understand. Nonetheless, the point I'm making here is quite off topic... but is that shield tanking can have a DC TOO... AND the shield tank is just better in the first place. Side tracking my own thread. Sorry. VERY angry about shield tank > armor tank in most ways, and shield tank rigs kicking much more ass than armor tank rigs, etc... It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2007.01.01 12:43:00 - [17] Yes, but that's when you steal the shield tankers women and call it even. Chicks dig armor tankers. +IOI?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.01 14:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/01/2007 11:08:04 Sure, they're NOS proof. That's understandable. However, if you are running a decent tank, you're probably running an injector in the first place. Nonetheless, people constantly talk about how 3 EANM II is better than 3 actives. They talk about it as if there are no drawbacks, and now EANM IIs kill Amarr, eat babies, and killed the family dog. For a while, I bought it. Now that I look at the numbers, I'm not sure. People talk as if these are the be-all end-all of tanking. And NEVER have I seen NOS-proof mentioned before here in such discussions (though it is self evident). All I ever heard was htat 3x EANM II is better than 3x active hardeners. If you fight amarrans in any capacity it is. Lasers do enough damage that if their primary damage type wasnt hardened you would feal it. Dont think of it as "slightly higher resists ex exchange for one weak one" think of it as "15% more Ex/Kin/Therm damage in exchange for 50% less Em damage] ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:07:00 - [19] Edited by: Takahashi Arran on 01/01/2007 16:09:36 It depends on how many slots you have for your resistances,in addition all tanks should begin with a DCU and build up (especially gallente) on a dominix with comp skills at 4: 3-slots: 2EANM2 +DCU2 = Em 79.55 EXP 53.99 Kin 66.77 Ther 66.77 3 Active Tech2 =Em 60 EXP 59.5 Kin 70.75 Ther 70.75 CONCLUSION: on a dominix? active, on anything else? passive gives pretty close resistances for no cap and that all important 60% structure, notice also that the DCu2 gives the same resist bonus a 3rd EANM would give. 4-Slots: 3Active+DCU2 Em66% EXP 65.58% Kin 75.14% thermal 75.14% <--- this is da uber tank for a nos domi- with 2 LAR2 can tank ALOT :D 3EANM2+DCU2 EM 82.35% EXP60.29% Kin 71.32 Thermal 71.32% in my opinion faction eanm and armour comp 5 aside (which i appreciate is significant for other ships, tech 2 active so a better job on resists than EANM2's, however they do take cap and they also are less good when raven fighting (EM+EXP being you lowest resists)
Marn Prestoc Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:31:00 - [20] Edited by: Marn Prestoc on 01/01/2007 16:32:19 EANM Low CPU use. No Cap use. Using 2 + DC gives double structure. With T2 + maxed comp skills the AVERAGE resists are only 1%ish less than actives. Actives High CPU use. Cap use. Gives better exp/therm/kin resistances. Personally I think the cap use is minimal, especially on BC and BS's, 1.5cap/sec per module so if 3 thats only 4.5cap/sec. It's the CPU that is the major factor for me, especially on minny ships which has high EM to start with so i'd rather up exp/therm/kin but I usually hit CPU problems. T2 EANM are 30cpu with named DC being only 20ish CPU so 2x EANM + DC = 70 cpu. T2 actives are 44 cpu so fitting 3 of them uses 132 cpu. Thats nearly twice what the 2x T2 EANM + DC uses.

Dixon Caldari Hells Donkeys	Posted - 2007.01.01 16:54:00 - [21] Edited by: Dixon on 01/01/2007 16:54:56 Originally by: Marn Prestoc It's the CPU that is the major factor for me, especially on minny ships which has high EM to start with so i'd rather up exp/therm/kin but I usually hit CPU problems. T2 EANM are 30cpu with named DC being only 20ish CPU so 2x EANM + DC = 70 cpu. T2 actives are 44 cpu so fitting 3 of them uses 132 cpu. Thats nearly twice what the 2x T2 EANM + DC uses. I think the CPU usage is the main factor in EANM+DC tank popularity. Anybody who's ever fitted a t2 megathron or armageddon knows how extremely important cpu is (I don't know about those minnies, might be the same). - - - - - - Originally by: Ath Amon as long as there will be such umbalance there is no hope to make ships balanced...
Shinjuro The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:01:00 - [22] This is somewhat on topic.. Shields have an active mod that boosts all resists (invul. field), but don't have a passive mod that boosts them. Armor have a passive mod that boosts all resists (EANM), but don't have an active mod. All I can say is, "WTF!". That always chapped my ass and now I have got it off my chest. p.s. Happy new year!
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 01/01/2007 17:17:28 Originally by: Shinjuro Shields have an active mod that boosts all resists (invul. field), but don't have a passive mod that boosts them. Armor have a passive mod that boosts all resists (EANM), but don't have an active mod. All I can say is, "WTF!". That always chapped my ass and now I have got it off my chest. And shields are STILL better than armor in nearly every way. Go figure. - Invuln fields are STILL far better than EANM IIs WITH SKILLS (meaning levels 4 or 5 in ALL 4 armor comp skills). - Shields have passive recahrge (in some cases, GODLY passive recharge) - Much faster active recharge (granted, using more cap, but they seem to manage just fine while out-tanking every armor tanker in existence) - Rigs that don't have as severe a drawback (on BSes and BCs for sure... armor rigs are unusable on frigates, and are dangerous for use on Minmatar armor tanked ships and possibly some other speed-needy armor tankers) - Shield extenders are essentially multifunctional (improving the tank's HP as well as regen); while not having a negative effect on the ship's agility (as opposed to armor plates, which kill agility, and do nothing for repping ability). While these negatively effect frigs and cruisers, they do little to BCs and BSes. etc... It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Marn Prestoc Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:20:00 - [24] Originally by: Dixon I think the CPU usage is the main factor in EANM+DC tank popularity. Anybody who's ever fitted a t2 megathron or armageddon knows how extremely important cpu is (I don't know about those minnies, might be the same). Well a Tempest can't squeeze t2 hardeners on a typical double rep setup even with lots of named stuff (nos/inject/reps), and if your using t1 hardeners you might as well use t2 EANM + DC. Typhoon is just a headache to fit, pg problems and cpu problems really limit choices. T2 Seige + T2 Dual 425's leaves very little choice and t2 hardeners are near impossible to get on (1 or 2 max) even with named rep. But with 7 lows, dual rep being impossible and split weapon high slots damage mods give limited benifit so fitting 4 or 5 resitsance mods means 3x named active + EANM + DC is possibly the best option, the heavy drones really hide the lack of high slot damage.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:46:00 - [25] Don't use three EAMN II the third get too much stack pen. If I remember right 2x EAMN II and a ANP II(base 12.5%) are better but if you can get a 'Refuge' ANP( which pase is a little over 15%). Because the 3ed stacked ovject gets a .49% stacking pen so 25% goes under 12.5. Every % matters in the tanking game.
Yarek Balear The Initiative	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:03:00 - [26] Interesting to see the actual numbers - I had thought that 2 EANM IIs plus a decent DCU was the way to go before reading this, but now it's not quite so clear - depends on the ship & setup etc... On a side note - Hehe Illuminaty said "plug your hole", hehe....
Tyler Lowe Minmatar DROW Org	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:13:00 - [27] Edited by: Tyler Lowe on 01/01/2007 18:13:56 The primary advantage isn't the amazing resistances, it's the ability to fit some gank in with your (decent) tank. The source of the "killed the family dog and eats small children" complaints is that people (mistakenly) thought that a default of 60% vs EM is enough. It's not. The use of EAMN II's means people are by default hardnening vs EM for the first time, so laser users are up against a hardened tank now whereas before they were not. As it turns out, 60%+ isn't good enough vs Kinetic either, so you see people using dual repair units. 5 modules to provide the same repair rate as a sinlge rep with 80%+ resistances. In order to see similar results with a single rep, you'd need to do something like this: 1x exp hard, 1x therm hard, 1x kin hard, 1x EAMN II, 1x DCU, 1x LAR. That's 6 slots. Add in a plate and you're at 7 slots. There goes any hope of fitting gank on most ships. All ship fittings are a series of comprimise. The 2x armor rep, 2x EANM II, 1x DCU, injected tank allows you to deal with a fair amount of hurt coming at you while dishing out a good amount in return. There's your missing advantage. J.A.F.O.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:13:00 - [28] +00% base resists +25% EAMN II (100.25) ----------------- +25% ---> resist +16.6875% EAMN II (75(.25.89)) ----------------- +41.6875% Resist +08.746875% -> DMC II (58.3125.15) ----------------- 50.434375% boost to all armor resist 12.5% boost to shield resists 60% boost to hull resists. all for three modules
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Vincent Almasy Don't use three EAMN II the third get too much stack pen. If I remember right 2x EAMN II and a ANP II(base 12.5%) are better but if you can get a 'Refuge' ANP( which pase is a little over 15%). Because the 3ed stacked ovject gets a .49% stacking pen so 25% goes under 12.5. Every % matters in the tanking game. Wrong numbers, 2nd is 87% effeciency, 3rd 57% effeciency. Also, ANP and ENAP share stacking penalities. A stat which gets stacking penalities does not care where the stat increase comes from. The only exeption there are damage controls.
Rigsta Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:51:00 - [30] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv ....EANM IIs being the OMGWTFHAX that some people are making them out to be... Welcome to internet forums, where reality (or virtual reality) is twisted and distorted beyond recognition somewhere between chair and keyboard. Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.



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