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BOBs diplomacy makes me sick.

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Tomas Ysidro Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:58:00 - [31] leave my mains alone :(
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Chrony You're just basing your statement on things you heared. Yes, I am basing my statement on the smack and flames I read on these forums during the BOB vs ASCN war. Maybe some BOB diplomats read this thread and behave differently in the next war. We will see. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:08:00 - [33] Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:09:20 Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:08:54 Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Chrony You're just basing your statement on things you heared. Yes, I am basing my statement on the smack and flames I read on these forums during the BOB vs ASCN war. Maybe some BOB diplomats read this thread and behave differently in the next war. We will see. Exactly. That was my point. You're basing your "facts" on one single war. You have neither seen us fight other alliances nor have you bothered yourself with the difficult task to check if we may have treated other enemys diffrently. The thread is flamebait and should be closed. EDIT: Spelling [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Chrony Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:09:20 Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:08:54 Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Chrony You're just basing your statement on things you heared. Yes, I am basing my statement on the smack and flames I read on these forums during the BOB vs ASCN war. Maybe some BOB diplomats read this thread and behave differently in the next war. We will see. Exactly. That was my point. You're basing your "facts" on one single war. You have neither seen us fight other alliances nor have you bothered yourself with the difficult task to check if we may have treated other enemys diffrently. The thread is flamebait and should be closed. EDIT: Spelling So threads being critical of BOBs forum behaviour and public statements during the BOB vs ASCN war are flamebaits and should be locked? Interesting. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Snodgey2004 Mega Modal M0nkeys	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? The forums are 50% smack and BoB aren't the only ones that do it , further more they aren't the worst offenders so why confine the topic to just BoB when it's so widespread ? Also if you have a problem with smack threads and such you can always just not read , no-one is forced to
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:25:00 - [36] Ok this is getting rediculous, your trying to twist my words around. I dont have a problem with critism, its rather the opposite thats true, without thinking about/knowing your mistakes you can't get better. Quote: b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war You call it smack, others call it truth. I dont really care, these forums should be read carefully, pay attention to the important posts and ignore the flames. Otherwise you'll get a headache rather fast. Quote: c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. Thruth deserves respect. Admitting that you are defeated taked a lot of courage, thats why it deserves respect not matter what may have happened before. Quote: So BOB only respects loosers? Wrong. I allready gave you a good example. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:22:00 - [37] Edited by: Victor Vision on 01/01/2007 21:22:51 Originally by: Chrony Ok this is getting rediculous, your trying to twist my words around. I dont have a problem with critism, its rather the opposite thats true, without thinking about/knowing your mistakes you can't get better. Quote: b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war You call it smack, others call it truth. I dont really care, these forums should be read carefully, pay attention to the important posts and ignore the flames. Otherwise you'll get a headache rather fast. Quote: c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. Thruth deserves respect. Admitting that you are defeated taked a lot of courage, thats why it deserves respect not matter what may have happened before. Quote: So BOB only respects loosers? Wrong. I allready gave you a good example. "Yeah i agree that only lamers live in npc stations but you guys are quite a number , your even lower than isk farmers or noob alts and cheap gankers who live in every npc station , at least they are wise enough and dont make fools of them selves and brag about claiming space. Last time i checked in EVE online you need to control stations with POS to even start saying you claim soemthing but again its prob a fantasy world for you" Does that sound like smacktalk to you, dear Mr. Chrony? It is a quote from a BOB member aimed at Celes and the Horde. It is the kind of quote coming out of the mouths of some BOB pilots that makes me and many others sick. It is the kind of smacktalk that is more typical to BOB then to any other alliance. Celes and the horde have the balls to stand against you. This demands respect. Admitting you lost and becoming a minion does not. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:40:00 - [38] Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 21:44:39 Originally by: Victor Vision Celes and the horde have the balls to stand against you. This demands respect. Admitting you lost and becoming a minion does not. I believe as the new year progresses and with the new territories BoB has acquired, they are going to be presented with a little bit of a conundrum. And it goes like this: How do you control that much territory? The obvious answer is Pets. Pet alliances and pet corps. Yes BoB has had Pet alliances in its space before they took over ASCN space, see FIX, Xelas and other renters, but now the volume of space they are going to hold will extend beyond what I would suggest is a critical amount. Within the current game mechanics, BoB could get away with controlling Fountain, Delve, PB and Querious. Even without the pets, it was just about doable. By taking on ex-ASCN territory BoB will become dependent on their "invited guests" or "slaves" or whatever you want to call them. The factors affecting the stability of their territory will increase nearly exponentially. This whole Pet idea is nothing new, Fountain Alliance used to be a great advocator of this modus operandi and so was the Five. It should come as no surprise that this is how BoB do things too. Stizm Hildii (aka Stan) was notorious for being very vocal about pets that did not behave. There is actually a historical link between FA, Atuk and now BoB. Infact I would go out on a limb and suggest that BoB is actually FA done properly, all powerful, rich beyond imagination and with muscle. The problem with Pets is how do you keep them on a leash? You have to give them some respect, but you have to also be quite clear who runs the show. Pets can be quite troublesome at times as anybody who owns one can testify to. BoB needs to be seen to give them respect in public... its that simple.. but at the same time in private the "pets" know who the daddy is. So nobody should really be surprised if BoB now turn around and "respect" ex-ASCN corps that decide to live a life of servitude under their new overlords. The question really is, how many pets is too many? I'm sure Blacklight, Galavet, Tholarim, Sir Molle himself and particularly Dianabolic have given this a great deal of thought. [edit:typos]
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Victor Vision "Yeah i agree that only lamers live in npc stations but you guys are quite a number , your even lower than isk farmers or noob alts and cheap gankers who live in every npc station , at least they are wise enough and dont make fools of them selves and brag about claiming space. Last time i checked in EVE online you need to control stations with POS to even start saying you claim soemthing but again its prob a fantasy world for you" Does that sound like smacktalk to you, dear Mr. Chrony? It is a quote from a BOB member aimed at Celes and the Horde. It is the kind of quote coming out of the mouths of some BOB pilots that makes me and many others sick. It is the kind of smacktalk that is more typical to BOB then to any other alliance. Celes and the horde have the balls to stand against you. This demands respect. Claiming you lost and becoming a minion does not. 1. You can call me Chrony, you dont have to call me Mr... 2. As I said, the forums should be read very carefully. I know that we have "forumwarriors" in BoB. But our CEO's made the decision not to censor the members and so we are free to post what we like. I, pesonally, dont like smacking, a bit of good-natured fun sure but nothing really insulting, but as i said our members are free to post what they want, deal with it. If it makes you sick, dont read it. Our little longtime war with CELES runs deeper than some smack on the forums, it has a reason probably older than your char. I think Blacklight explained it quite good a few weeks ago. Before you start complaining about having to find something like that, www.eve-search.com is your friend. Use it! [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:38:00 - [40] This is not a BoB trait, it is a LIFE trait. You look at any top level boxing match, the guys talk it big and slag each other off, get in the ring, kick seven bells out of each other, and at the end, they shake hands and embrace their opponent in a gesture of repesect. In our line of work, propaganda plays a much smaller part, but at the end of the contract, respect where it is due, and move on. It is not hypocrisy. I doubt however they respect you, so maybe you are the exceptional looser that proves the rule....who knows. AND WHEN WILL OUR BELOVED MODS GET BACK FROM THE CCP BOOZE DUNGEONS!!!??? Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Hudsonn Minmatar FireTech Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:50:00 - [41] Funny how anything bad said about bob is considered "flame". _________________________Minmatar IS Hardmode--Imperium--
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:15:00 - [42] Edited by: j0sephine on 02/01/2007 00:15:25 "So BOB only respects loosers?" I must say your OP is in very interesting contrast with your signature. I'd expect quite more sense from someone claiming they have the brains to recognize world isn't entirely black and white. In simpler words, no.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Hudsonn Funny how anything bad said about bob is considered "flame". There are plenty of posts that are critical of BoB, that we do not consider flame bait. The difference is whether the posts are considered and informed, this one is neither.
Monahlott Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:22:00 - [44] Originally by: Necronomicon This is not a BoB trait, it is a LIFE trait. You look at any top level boxing match, the guys talk it big and slag each other off, get in the ring, kick seven bells out of each other, and at the end, they shake hands and embrace their opponent in a gesture of repesect. Ah right...That's what backdoor Bandit meant when he said he wanted to lick me in the ring.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:26:00 - [45] fnar fnar Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:33:00 - [46] Edited by: fire 59 on 02/01/2007 00:34:37 Wdit - Cant be assed to get involved
The Kola Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:54:00 - [47] "This is not a BoB trait, it is a LIFE trait. You look at any top level boxing match, the guys talk it big and slag each other off, get in the ring, kick seven bells out of each other, and at the end, they shake hands and embrace their opponent in a gesture of repesect." well said. Also to add to this , if you jump 75 battleships into a camp and people know why but you throw out excuses and lie about it . . .yeah you'll prolly hear about it ... . .same as logging off a titan with aggro . . . .while maybe this kind of thing shouldn't be flamed "cuz we all can make mistakes " to lie about it..try to fool everyone etc etc etc . . ..deserves more than flames. And respect to all who have stayed,fought day in and out, not to those who take off running when things turn sour.
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Astasia Orian roflcopter? Thats constructive, thank you for your input. Lollerskates? Originally by: Victor Ramirez using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
Devvon Maelstrom Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:56:00 - [49] Edited by: Devvon Maelstrom on 02/01/2007 02:00:16 The following are my viewpoints as a long term member of BoB but I would be foolish to say I speak for the whole alliance. I've been there since the beginning but still pretty much consider myself the average 'grunt' and the following should be taken as such. BoB is a fighting force. We live for combat and in the current universe setting that means we are almost always the invading force. We start wars and our overall goal is to control all of lawless space. Your post accuses us of smacktalking and then patting our enemies on the back when its over but it lacks any substance as to who we were attacking on the forums and whom we feel we respect in the end. Sure, there has been alot of 'smacktalk'. From the beginning of this war, we have been accused of hacking the servers, cheating using bugs, and recieving special treatment from the GMs. Not only has this been posted on the Eve-O forums but has been seen repeatedly by members of the HC in ASCN on their forums (of which we had access to through the use of our 'spy' network.) And let's not start on spys.. the argument about corporations using spys or not has been run into the ground. I believe that this has led to alot of resentment within BoB towards ASCN's HC and towards those who would so blindly believe the lies that they were told. Although we love to win, playing the game is what we truely love and cheating would just take away from that. With that in mind, of course our anger has shown up on these forums. Some the posts were to discredit those who were defacing our name but I suppose many were just written in frustration of enemy whose commanders would blame losing on anything but the plain simple fact that they lost. As to the telling the enemy that we have respect for them in the end... well, we do. We know who have fought and how they have fought. We know who have lied and who have not. Sure, many of the very corps we have come to respect, we will hold out the offer to stay where they are and help us control the space we have acquired. Eve is big and even BoB knows we cannot simply hold it on the power of our pvp fleet. Who better to help us hold it then those we know will put up a fight or who can help with our logistics. Some corps have earned our respect... some should move very far away. Also in reguards to Celes, the drama between BoB and Celes goes so far back that a whole forum could be filled with posts about it. In truth, there are still some members in Celes that I have respect for. I had fought beside them in the early days in the north and later down in Curse. Some of my first pvp experience in RKK were fighting along side Celes. However, there is a sense of betrayel when it comes to Celes. Many of the comments by Celes's leadership have rubbed us in the wrong way. The game was changing and we changed along with it. Celes had to take the long way round to the same conclusions, unfortunately, slandering us in the process. My own opinion is that Celes speaks too big for what they are. They often post as though they are a major power but I feel in truth that they could not really stand against any major power in Eve. Part of me almost wishes this wasn't so...
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:02:00 - [50] Stop calling our partners "Pets". They're partners, collaborators, not some fancy animal you could find in a SM dungeon. Show some respect, further more when you're barking for it in your answers here and all over this forum section. Respect goes for people who earned it. Not more, not less. That being said, be my guest.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:07:00 - [51] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 02:10:05 Originally by: Lone Bear Stop calling our partners "Pets". They're partners, collaborators, not some fancy animal you could find in a SM dungeon. Doesn't matter what you call them, they are what they are....they live on your land under your rules. And if they don't behave they get the boot. Nothing wrong with it per se... but thats the way it is.
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:12:00 - [52] Dont follow rules of your corp and you'll get booted, so you're your ceo's pet? Unless you're the ceo, then you're your own pet. Followed your logic here, Nez: everyone is someone's pet; difference is made by your daily relationships with your partners.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Lone Bear Dont follow rules of your corp and you'll get booted, so you're your ceo's pet? Unless you're the ceo, then you're your own pet. Followed your logic here, Nez: everyone is someone's pet; difference is made by your daily relationships with your partners. K.. you as a BoB member share tags, TS, gang, forums, commaraderie with your corp and alliance. You as part of BoB are in control of your surroundings. I'm sure it gives you much pride to post on the forums with your alliance and corporate tag showing and getting to post your kills on dimensionz' beautiful killboard. BoB is a team. Now entities that live in your holdings are not part of that team. Or else they would be in BoB. And we all know thats never gonna happen. They will also not get to see the space they live in marked on Joshua's map under their own name. Truth is BoB has fought for the right to claim those regions, you've earnt it. Your pets, collaborators, partners, serfs....etc.. whatever....... have not. BoB is a closed circle, and your "partners" are out of that circle. So, its not quite the same is it? no matter how much you pretend it is. Yet... your "partners" are vital for BoB to maintain control over its ever-expanding territory, without them you simply couldn't do it. This is the only flaw that the "pet" model has... it grates on you even when you don't want it to. When you Lone Bear leave BoB to go join Xelas and live as a "partner"... I'll believe you. I bet we can count on one hand the number of BoB pilots who have done that.
shakaZ XIV Caldari True Salvation	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:36:00 - [54] Edited by: shakaZ XIV on 02/01/2007 02:37:00 Originally by: Shin Ra (...) the absolute worst thing for BOB would be if ASCN refused to give up and continue to fight a long geurilla war. There is no guerilla war, when it comes to space with only conquerable stations. You need dreads, the end. Unless you are hinting at (ex-)ascn people going to Delve, to cause trouble. Saying that would be "the absolute worst thing for bob" is hardly right either, it just costs bob and allies a couple of npc'ing ships a day/week and that's about it --> no real consequence. I personally believe that "guerilla" stuff only has a use if you back it up with brute force aswell (dreads/fleets), otherwise it's just a nuisance. It is fun to do, though.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Nez Perces ... This is the only flaw that the "pet" model has... it grates on you even when you don't want it to. When you Lone Bear leave BoB to go join Xelas and live as a "partner"... I'll believe you. I bet we can count on one hand the number of BoB pilots who have done that. I was in a partner corp for a long time. It was a fine business deal, we made great profit despite the taxes, better than we could ever get anywhere else with the fighting power we had at hand then. We were treated with respect. All corps need to grow and develop. Being a "pet" is a better start then most. If you want to create something of your own, work hard, play harder, earn, invest, gather experience, then go create. If you're tired of mission running and would like to rat and run complexes, but cba about the wars and politics, you might be happy being a pet during your entire existence in this universe. I don't see sensible people being upset about being partners/pets. All I see is a possible attempt to make the "pets" rebel. Or feel bad about themselves for no reason. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Celestina Apasionado Gallente Argent Industries	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:45:00 - [56] Originally by: Imperial scout BOB makes me Sick. I get sick alot when reading the forums o/ Ephemeron Beat their spirit down while you fight them and if they prove worthwhile after that thank them and tell them how appreciative of them you are. That is so wrong, Bob should learn a thing or two about etiquette.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:50:00 - [57] "Truth is BoB has fought for the right to claim those regions, you've earnt it. Your pets, collaborators, partners, serfs....etc.. whatever....... have not. BoB is a closed circle, and your "partners" are out of that circle. So, its not quite the same is it? no matter how much you pretend it is." I'll go out on a limb here, but BoB seems selective about who they deem efficient enough to officially operate in their space. So while it may be correct to say such corps did not "earn the right to claim the regions" but then they aren't claiming such ownership. They are living in these regions because they're perceived to have what it takes to be there, while countless others don't make the cut. I think they deserve certain respect for that. As such --and this is generic remark, not aimed at anyone in particular-- i think anyone who wants to look down at them should first look at their own corporation and/or alliance, and try without bias to estimate if their own house is really in that much better order in comparison, to warrant this kind of attitude. And no, it doesn't mean BoB pilots have to switch to one of such corporations to prove anything, or that everyone must be mixed together like it's common in most alliances. Some people are more interested in conquer, some are more interested in settling systems. To each their own as long as they can utilize cooperation to the best interest of both parties involved.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:58:00 - [58] Originally by: shakaZ XIV Edited by: shakaZ XIV on 02/01/2007 02:37:00 Originally by: Shin Ra (...) the absolute worst thing for BOB would be if ASCN refused to give up and continue to fight a long geurilla war. There is no guerilla war, when it comes to space with only conquerable stations. You need dreads, the end. Unless you are hinting at (ex-)ascn people going to Delve, to cause trouble. Saying that would be "the absolute worst thing for bob" is hardly right either, it just costs bob and allies a couple of npc'ing ships a day/week and that's about it --> no real consequence. I personally believe that "guerilla" stuff only has a use if you back it up with brute force aswell (dreads/fleets), otherwise it's just a nuisance. It is fun to do, though. If ASCN retreated to say Stain with 200 of the most commited people they would be a major pain for BOB. I'm not saying they would be in any position to make a strike at NOL, but the situation in Fountain is not one that is favorable when compared to say Querious. The nuisance is the problem. The scale of which can be argued for days, but the mere fact it exists constitutes a problem.
HordeZla Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Victor Vision So BOB only respects loosers? I have so much respect for you that there won't be enought for anyone else! Try again!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Shin Ra If ASCN retreated to say Stain with 200 of the most commited people they would be a major pain for BOB. I'm not saying they would be in any position to make a strike at NOL, but the situation in Fountain is not one that is favorable when compared to say Querious. The nuisance is the problem. The scale of which can be argued for days, but the mere fact it exists constitutes a problem. Well that was ASCN's problem wasn't it, they simply didnt have 200 committed people... i'd say that they had 50 pilots with perhaps the kind of commitment necessary. Also they seemed unable to come up with a plan that would not squander any commitment that might have been forthcoming. Tbh the whole ASCN saga was just sad beyond belief. Makes you wanna cry. I would not be surprised if a good number of ASCN corps take BoB up on their offer to reside on their old homes. Furthermore those that are making the last "alamo" stand are doing it for old times sake. We are not going to see ASCN guerilla fighters causing BoB trouble.. they cannot be compared to SA for example who despite being disorganised, were actually fighters at heart.

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