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BOBs diplomacy makes me sick.

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Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:50:00 - [1] Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Trinity Faetal Gallente Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:52:00 - [2] trollerblade -- Enjoy The Silence
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:53:00 - [3] Are you sure your corp should include things like intelligence in it's name?
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:55:00 - [4] Originally by: Trinity Faetal trollerblade If the truth seems like trolling to you, then it is a sad truth. Waiting for a lock by the BOB friendly Mods anyways, but the post is NO trolling neither is it a flamebait. It is the sad truth about BOB. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:55:00 - [5] Originally by: ElCoCo Are you sure your corp should include things like intelligence in it's name? Would you care to use your intelligence to prove me wrong? In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:58:00 - [6] roflcopter?
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 17:59:00 - [7] Edited by: Victor Vision on 01/01/2007 18:00:40 Originally by: Astasia Orian roflcopter? Thats constructive, thank you for your input. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
spiralJunkie Minmatar EveTV	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:01:00 - [8] Edited by: spiralJunkie on 01/01/2007 18:01:12 grrrr, misclick _ <Xyliana> Bob tempts school kids into the back of vans with candy
ElCoCo KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:02:00 - [9] Originally by: spiralJunkie grrrr, misclick Wrong char again?
Soulis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? how does BOBs diplomacy effect you? and why should they care about you? ask yourself those questions.
Constantine Arcanum Gallente IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:05:00 - [11] Originally by: ElCoCo Are you sure your corp should include things like intelligence in it's name? rofl I helped - Cortes What a shiny and lovely place here - Eshtir Well lets make it a party atleast :D -Xorus RAWWWR!11!!1!2 SIG HIJACK!!11!1 I found it first, get orrrfff moiiii laaannnd - Cortes
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Soulis Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? how does BOBs diplomacy effect you? and why should they care about you? ask yourself those questions. How does BOBs diplomacy effect you? And why should you care about it? Ask yourself those questions. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:08:00 - [13] Originally by: Victor Vision So BOB only respects loosers? No, clearly they respect former enemies. During a wartime footing you can't expect people to sit around the campfire and have sing-a-longs and make smores when they're not shooting each other. Alliances that BoB feels that don't even deserve the title of enemy don't get respect at all, as was indicated earlier in 2006. +IOI?
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:10:00 - [14] A badly presented alt post indeed. Yet the case does have some merits. Bob clearly stated that CLS and some others would not be allowed to stay. This may or may not still be the case. However, the absolute worst thing for BOB would be if ASCN refused to give up and continue to fight a long geurilla war. BOB know this, hence they say what they say. The thing is, at least some of ASCN know this too, but they feel better about loosing when the "R" word is used.
Dragerest Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? did bob blow up your tech1 fitted BS. ps. you can't have grey without black and white. For your tech 2 needs www.evetrust.com
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:14:00 - [16] Originally by: Idaeus Originally by: Victor Vision So BOB only respects loosers? No, clearly they respect former enemies. During a wartime footing you can't expect people to sit around the campfire and have sing-a-longs and make smores when they're not shooting each other. Alliances that BoB feels that don't even deserve the title of enemy don't get respect at all, as was indicated earlier in 2006. Thanks for the first reasonable reply. The reason I posted this thread is that the amount of smacktalk during wars, and against people not of their opinion, that BOB usualy uses, is in my opinion over the top. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Victor Vision c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, ... So BOB only respects loosers? Where I live they call it "good sportsmanship". ===This is a sig=== "no matter where you are or what you're doing, you know that down in the southeast, LV and RA are trying to stab each other in the face." -- Cadiz ==============
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:21:00 - [18] OP: There were a few people in ASCN who abused their positions, lied to the general membership, and basically called the shots that secured their alliance's demise. They got no respect during the war, and we were clear about it. That said, the rank and file of ASCN who actually put it on the line and put up a fight do deserve our respect, and it is them (because, let's face it, the rats didn't fancy breaking with tradition and go down with the sinking ship) that we extend our respect to. Now, I am guessing that you had figured that out before you posted, but just felt like slinging some mud to see if some would stick. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Y Ashanti	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:22:00 - [19] Edited by: Y Ashanti on 01/01/2007 18:22:03 nm
Emrod Amarr Legion Du Lys Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:29:00 - [20] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? don't give up your flammes and.. a)Bob gonna send you a little merc corp to war dec you!((because they dont gonna waste their time to war dec you themself lol)) b)Prove that you a little forum warrior but not a pvper by publish the killboard of the succes of the merc corp agains you and finally destroy your credibility with other tactical flamme! c)After they gonna paid you to flamme for them and prove to all of us you can be a good puppet! But you can be very lucky and they can don't care about all of this! Sooo....what next in your flammes? lol
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:30:00 - [21] Originally by: Avon OP: There were a few people in ASCN who abused their positions, lied to the general membership, and basically called the shots that secured their alliance's demise. They got no respect during the war, and we were clear about it. That said, the rank and file of ASCN who actually put it on the line and put up a fight do deserve our respect, and it is them (because, let's face it, the rats didn't fancy breaking with tradition and go down with the sinking ship) that we extend our respect to. Now, I am guessing that you had figured that out before you posted, but just felt like slinging some mud to see if some would stick. Pity you had to include a flame at the end of an otherwise reasonable post. Figuring out how BOB works in general is not so hard. Very effective war machine indeed. However I hope that BOB will refrain from using the amount of flame and smack that we have been seeing in the past during future wars. It is all in good sport in the end, and the agressive propaganda that BOB often uses adds a touch to wars that might be efficient for BOB, but can be a spoiler to the rest. With its current position I think BOB could afford to be respectful to enemies during future wars, even while they are still running. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:31:00 - [22] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Avon OP: There were a few people in ASCN who abused their positions, lied to the general membership, and basically called the shots that secured their alliance's demise. They got no respect during the war, and we were clear about it. That said, the rank and file of ASCN who actually put it on the line and put up a fight do deserve our respect, and it is them (because, let's face it, the rats didn't fancy breaking with tradition and go down with the sinking ship) that we extend our respect to. Now, I am guessing that you had figured that out before you posted, but just felt like slinging some mud to see if some would stick. Pity you had to include a flame at the end of an otherwise reasonable post. Figuring out how BOB works in general is not so hard. Very effective war machine indeed. However I hope that BOB will refrain from using the amount of flame and smack that we have been seeing in the past during future wars. It is all in good sport in the end, and the agressive propaganda that BOB often uses adds a touch to wars that might be efficient for BOB, but can be a spoiler to the rest. With its current position I think BOB could afford to be respectful to enemies during future wars, even while they are still running. Opinion's aren't flames _ Welcome to Rancho Zoidberg
Shirei Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:34:00 - [23] Now if you were exceedingly cynical, you could also add d) start poaching their members But thankfully noone around here is cynical or would take such basic flamebait.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Victor Vision With its current position I think BOB could afford to be respectful to enemies during future wars, even while they are still running. If you give respect freely, it is worthless. I think you'll find that the majority of our "propoganda, smack, & flames" was painted as such, but in reality it was just the unpleasant truth of the situation. Both sides used propoganda, it is just that ASCN's slant was to paint ours as "smack & flames" rather than addressing the content. Shame really, because if those to whom we have extended our respect had understood the reality of the situation, rather than believing that it was all made up by the BoB propoganda machine, maybe things would have gone rather differently. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Imperial scout	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:47:00 - [25] BOB makes me Sick. I get sick alot when reading the forums
Xei Wa	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:50:00 - [26] Edited by: Xei Wa on 01/01/2007 18:50:33 Damn wrong char.
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? Just ask some of the real old FIX members about how respectfull we were to them while we were fighting in Querious/basing out of Gehi after we moved out of the North. It's been said said multiple times allready but I guess I have to repeat it again. Give us a good fight and we will respect you. You're just basing your statement on things you heared. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Ritchler Gallente The Order of Chivalry	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? I think you should think before you post
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:54:00 - [29] Stupid alt posts annoy Trash Cat!
JINX HSC Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:56:00 - [30] Originally by: Xei Wa Edited by: Xei Wa on 01/01/2007 18:50:33 Damn wrong char. is that you again spiral?? - KLADDKAKA -
Tomas Ysidro Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.01 18:58:00 - [31] leave my mains alone :(
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:00:00 - [32] Originally by: Chrony You're just basing your statement on things you heared. Yes, I am basing my statement on the smack and flames I read on these forums during the BOB vs ASCN war. Maybe some BOB diplomats read this thread and behave differently in the next war. We will see. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:08:00 - [33] Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:09:20 Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:08:54 Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Chrony You're just basing your statement on things you heared. Yes, I am basing my statement on the smack and flames I read on these forums during the BOB vs ASCN war. Maybe some BOB diplomats read this thread and behave differently in the next war. We will see. Exactly. That was my point. You're basing your "facts" on one single war. You have neither seen us fight other alliances nor have you bothered yourself with the difficult task to check if we may have treated other enemys diffrently. The thread is flamebait and should be closed. EDIT: Spelling [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Chrony Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:09:20 Edited by: Chrony on 01/01/2007 19:08:54 Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Chrony You're just basing your statement on things you heared. Yes, I am basing my statement on the smack and flames I read on these forums during the BOB vs ASCN war. Maybe some BOB diplomats read this thread and behave differently in the next war. We will see. Exactly. That was my point. You're basing your "facts" on one single war. You have neither seen us fight other alliances nor have you bothered yourself with the difficult task to check if we may have treated other enemys diffrently. The thread is flamebait and should be closed. EDIT: Spelling So threads being critical of BOBs forum behaviour and public statements during the BOB vs ASCN war are flamebaits and should be locked? Interesting. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Snodgey2004 Mega Modal M0nkeys	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? The forums are 50% smack and BoB aren't the only ones that do it , further more they aren't the worst offenders so why confine the topic to just BoB when it's so widespread ? Also if you have a problem with smack threads and such you can always just not read , no-one is forced to
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 19:25:00 - [36] Ok this is getting rediculous, your trying to twist my words around. I dont have a problem with critism, its rather the opposite thats true, without thinking about/knowing your mistakes you can't get better. Quote: b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war You call it smack, others call it truth. I dont really care, these forums should be read carefully, pay attention to the important posts and ignore the flames. Otherwise you'll get a headache rather fast. Quote: c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. Thruth deserves respect. Admitting that you are defeated taked a lot of courage, thats why it deserves respect not matter what may have happened before. Quote: So BOB only respects loosers? Wrong. I allready gave you a good example. [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:22:00 - [37] Edited by: Victor Vision on 01/01/2007 21:22:51 Originally by: Chrony Ok this is getting rediculous, your trying to twist my words around. I dont have a problem with critism, its rather the opposite thats true, without thinking about/knowing your mistakes you can't get better. Quote: b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war You call it smack, others call it truth. I dont really care, these forums should be read carefully, pay attention to the important posts and ignore the flames. Otherwise you'll get a headache rather fast. Quote: c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. Thruth deserves respect. Admitting that you are defeated taked a lot of courage, thats why it deserves respect not matter what may have happened before. Quote: So BOB only respects loosers? Wrong. I allready gave you a good example. "Yeah i agree that only lamers live in npc stations but you guys are quite a number , your even lower than isk farmers or noob alts and cheap gankers who live in every npc station , at least they are wise enough and dont make fools of them selves and brag about claiming space. Last time i checked in EVE online you need to control stations with POS to even start saying you claim soemthing but again its prob a fantasy world for you" Does that sound like smacktalk to you, dear Mr. Chrony? It is a quote from a BOB member aimed at Celes and the Horde. It is the kind of quote coming out of the mouths of some BOB pilots that makes me and many others sick. It is the kind of smacktalk that is more typical to BOB then to any other alliance. Celes and the horde have the balls to stand against you. This demands respect. Admitting you lost and becoming a minion does not. In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.01 21:40:00 - [38] Edited by: Nez Perces on 01/01/2007 21:44:39 Originally by: Victor Vision Celes and the horde have the balls to stand against you. This demands respect. Admitting you lost and becoming a minion does not. I believe as the new year progresses and with the new territories BoB has acquired, they are going to be presented with a little bit of a conundrum. And it goes like this: How do you control that much territory? The obvious answer is Pets. Pet alliances and pet corps. Yes BoB has had Pet alliances in its space before they took over ASCN space, see FIX, Xelas and other renters, but now the volume of space they are going to hold will extend beyond what I would suggest is a critical amount. Within the current game mechanics, BoB could get away with controlling Fountain, Delve, PB and Querious. Even without the pets, it was just about doable. By taking on ex-ASCN territory BoB will become dependent on their "invited guests" or "slaves" or whatever you want to call them. The factors affecting the stability of their territory will increase nearly exponentially. This whole Pet idea is nothing new, Fountain Alliance used to be a great advocator of this modus operandi and so was the Five. It should come as no surprise that this is how BoB do things too. Stizm Hildii (aka Stan) was notorious for being very vocal about pets that did not behave. There is actually a historical link between FA, Atuk and now BoB. Infact I would go out on a limb and suggest that BoB is actually FA done properly, all powerful, rich beyond imagination and with muscle. The problem with Pets is how do you keep them on a leash? You have to give them some respect, but you have to also be quite clear who runs the show. Pets can be quite troublesome at times as anybody who owns one can testify to. BoB needs to be seen to give them respect in public... its that simple.. but at the same time in private the "pets" know who the daddy is. So nobody should really be surprised if BoB now turn around and "respect" ex-ASCN corps that decide to live a life of servitude under their new overlords. The question really is, how many pets is too many? I'm sure Blacklight, Galavet, Tholarim, Sir Molle himself and particularly Dianabolic have given this a great deal of thought. [edit:typos]
Chrony Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.01 22:56:00 - [39] Originally by: Victor Vision "Yeah i agree that only lamers live in npc stations but you guys are quite a number , your even lower than isk farmers or noob alts and cheap gankers who live in every npc station , at least they are wise enough and dont make fools of them selves and brag about claiming space. Last time i checked in EVE online you need to control stations with POS to even start saying you claim soemthing but again its prob a fantasy world for you" Does that sound like smacktalk to you, dear Mr. Chrony? It is a quote from a BOB member aimed at Celes and the Horde. It is the kind of quote coming out of the mouths of some BOB pilots that makes me and many others sick. It is the kind of smacktalk that is more typical to BOB then to any other alliance. Celes and the horde have the balls to stand against you. This demands respect. Claiming you lost and becoming a minion does not. 1. You can call me Chrony, you dont have to call me Mr... 2. As I said, the forums should be read very carefully. I know that we have "forumwarriors" in BoB. But our CEO's made the decision not to censor the members and so we are free to post what we like. I, pesonally, dont like smacking, a bit of good-natured fun sure but nothing really insulting, but as i said our members are free to post what they want, deal with it. If it makes you sick, dont read it. Our little longtime war with CELES runs deeper than some smack on the forums, it has a reason probably older than your char. I think Blacklight explained it quite good a few weeks ago. Before you start complaining about having to find something like that, www.eve-search.com is your friend. Use it! [green]Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail mods@c
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:38:00 - [40] This is not a BoB trait, it is a LIFE trait. You look at any top level boxing match, the guys talk it big and slag each other off, get in the ring, kick seven bells out of each other, and at the end, they shake hands and embrace their opponent in a gesture of repesect. In our line of work, propaganda plays a much smaller part, but at the end of the contract, respect where it is due, and move on. It is not hypocrisy. I doubt however they respect you, so maybe you are the exceptional looser that proves the rule....who knows. AND WHEN WILL OUR BELOVED MODS GET BACK FROM THE CCP BOOZE DUNGEONS!!!??? Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Hudsonn Minmatar FireTech Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.01 23:50:00 - [41] Funny how anything bad said about bob is considered "flame". _________________________Minmatar IS Hardmode--Imperium--
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:15:00 - [42] Edited by: j0sephine on 02/01/2007 00:15:25 "So BOB only respects loosers?" I must say your OP is in very interesting contrast with your signature. I'd expect quite more sense from someone claiming they have the brains to recognize world isn't entirely black and white. In simpler words, no.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Hudsonn Funny how anything bad said about bob is considered "flame". There are plenty of posts that are critical of BoB, that we do not consider flame bait. The difference is whether the posts are considered and informed, this one is neither.
Monahlott Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:22:00 - [44] Originally by: Necronomicon This is not a BoB trait, it is a LIFE trait. You look at any top level boxing match, the guys talk it big and slag each other off, get in the ring, kick seven bells out of each other, and at the end, they shake hands and embrace their opponent in a gesture of repesect. Ah right...That's what backdoor Bandit meant when he said he wanted to lick me in the ring.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:26:00 - [45] fnar fnar Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:33:00 - [46] Edited by: fire 59 on 02/01/2007 00:34:37 Wdit - Cant be assed to get involved
The Kola Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:54:00 - [47] "This is not a BoB trait, it is a LIFE trait. You look at any top level boxing match, the guys talk it big and slag each other off, get in the ring, kick seven bells out of each other, and at the end, they shake hands and embrace their opponent in a gesture of repesect." well said. Also to add to this , if you jump 75 battleships into a camp and people know why but you throw out excuses and lie about it . . .yeah you'll prolly hear about it ... . .same as logging off a titan with aggro . . . .while maybe this kind of thing shouldn't be flamed "cuz we all can make mistakes " to lie about it..try to fool everyone etc etc etc . . ..deserves more than flames. And respect to all who have stayed,fought day in and out, not to those who take off running when things turn sour.
Phrixus Zephyr Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Victor Vision Originally by: Astasia Orian roflcopter? Thats constructive, thank you for your input. Lollerskates? Originally by: Victor Ramirez using it to get the layout of a new system and a quick belt-check is about as practical as using Google Earth to see if your car is still in front of your house.
Devvon Maelstrom Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 01:56:00 - [49] Edited by: Devvon Maelstrom on 02/01/2007 02:00:16 The following are my viewpoints as a long term member of BoB but I would be foolish to say I speak for the whole alliance. I've been there since the beginning but still pretty much consider myself the average 'grunt' and the following should be taken as such. BoB is a fighting force. We live for combat and in the current universe setting that means we are almost always the invading force. We start wars and our overall goal is to control all of lawless space. Your post accuses us of smacktalking and then patting our enemies on the back when its over but it lacks any substance as to who we were attacking on the forums and whom we feel we respect in the end. Sure, there has been alot of 'smacktalk'. From the beginning of this war, we have been accused of hacking the servers, cheating using bugs, and recieving special treatment from the GMs. Not only has this been posted on the Eve-O forums but has been seen repeatedly by members of the HC in ASCN on their forums (of which we had access to through the use of our 'spy' network.) And let's not start on spys.. the argument about corporations using spys or not has been run into the ground. I believe that this has led to alot of resentment within BoB towards ASCN's HC and towards those who would so blindly believe the lies that they were told. Although we love to win, playing the game is what we truely love and cheating would just take away from that. With that in mind, of course our anger has shown up on these forums. Some the posts were to discredit those who were defacing our name but I suppose many were just written in frustration of enemy whose commanders would blame losing on anything but the plain simple fact that they lost. As to the telling the enemy that we have respect for them in the end... well, we do. We know who have fought and how they have fought. We know who have lied and who have not. Sure, many of the very corps we have come to respect, we will hold out the offer to stay where they are and help us control the space we have acquired. Eve is big and even BoB knows we cannot simply hold it on the power of our pvp fleet. Who better to help us hold it then those we know will put up a fight or who can help with our logistics. Some corps have earned our respect... some should move very far away. Also in reguards to Celes, the drama between BoB and Celes goes so far back that a whole forum could be filled with posts about it. In truth, there are still some members in Celes that I have respect for. I had fought beside them in the early days in the north and later down in Curse. Some of my first pvp experience in RKK were fighting along side Celes. However, there is a sense of betrayel when it comes to Celes. Many of the comments by Celes's leadership have rubbed us in the wrong way. The game was changing and we changed along with it. Celes had to take the long way round to the same conclusions, unfortunately, slandering us in the process. My own opinion is that Celes speaks too big for what they are. They often post as though they are a major power but I feel in truth that they could not really stand against any major power in Eve. Part of me almost wishes this wasn't so...
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:02:00 - [50] Stop calling our partners "Pets". They're partners, collaborators, not some fancy animal you could find in a SM dungeon. Show some respect, further more when you're barking for it in your answers here and all over this forum section. Respect goes for people who earned it. Not more, not less. That being said, be my guest.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:07:00 - [51] Edited by: Nez Perces on 02/01/2007 02:10:05 Originally by: Lone Bear Stop calling our partners "Pets". They're partners, collaborators, not some fancy animal you could find in a SM dungeon. Doesn't matter what you call them, they are what they are....they live on your land under your rules. And if they don't behave they get the boot. Nothing wrong with it per se... but thats the way it is.
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:12:00 - [52] Dont follow rules of your corp and you'll get booted, so you're your ceo's pet? Unless you're the ceo, then you're your own pet. Followed your logic here, Nez: everyone is someone's pet; difference is made by your daily relationships with your partners.
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:25:00 - [53] Originally by: Lone Bear Dont follow rules of your corp and you'll get booted, so you're your ceo's pet? Unless you're the ceo, then you're your own pet. Followed your logic here, Nez: everyone is someone's pet; difference is made by your daily relationships with your partners. K.. you as a BoB member share tags, TS, gang, forums, commaraderie with your corp and alliance. You as part of BoB are in control of your surroundings. I'm sure it gives you much pride to post on the forums with your alliance and corporate tag showing and getting to post your kills on dimensionz' beautiful killboard. BoB is a team. Now entities that live in your holdings are not part of that team. Or else they would be in BoB. And we all know thats never gonna happen. They will also not get to see the space they live in marked on Joshua's map under their own name. Truth is BoB has fought for the right to claim those regions, you've earnt it. Your pets, collaborators, partners, serfs....etc.. whatever....... have not. BoB is a closed circle, and your "partners" are out of that circle. So, its not quite the same is it? no matter how much you pretend it is. Yet... your "partners" are vital for BoB to maintain control over its ever-expanding territory, without them you simply couldn't do it. This is the only flaw that the "pet" model has... it grates on you even when you don't want it to. When you Lone Bear leave BoB to go join Xelas and live as a "partner"... I'll believe you. I bet we can count on one hand the number of BoB pilots who have done that.
shakaZ XIV Caldari True Salvation	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:36:00 - [54] Edited by: shakaZ XIV on 02/01/2007 02:37:00 Originally by: Shin Ra (...) the absolute worst thing for BOB would be if ASCN refused to give up and continue to fight a long geurilla war. There is no guerilla war, when it comes to space with only conquerable stations. You need dreads, the end. Unless you are hinting at (ex-)ascn people going to Delve, to cause trouble. Saying that would be "the absolute worst thing for bob" is hardly right either, it just costs bob and allies a couple of npc'ing ships a day/week and that's about it --> no real consequence. I personally believe that "guerilla" stuff only has a use if you back it up with brute force aswell (dreads/fleets), otherwise it's just a nuisance. It is fun to do, though.
Logan Feynman Constructive Influence	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:44:00 - [55] Originally by: Nez Perces ... This is the only flaw that the "pet" model has... it grates on you even when you don't want it to. When you Lone Bear leave BoB to go join Xelas and live as a "partner"... I'll believe you. I bet we can count on one hand the number of BoB pilots who have done that. I was in a partner corp for a long time. It was a fine business deal, we made great profit despite the taxes, better than we could ever get anywhere else with the fighting power we had at hand then. We were treated with respect. All corps need to grow and develop. Being a "pet" is a better start then most. If you want to create something of your own, work hard, play harder, earn, invest, gather experience, then go create. If you're tired of mission running and would like to rat and run complexes, but cba about the wars and politics, you might be happy being a pet during your entire existence in this universe. I don't see sensible people being upset about being partners/pets. All I see is a possible attempt to make the "pets" rebel. Or feel bad about themselves for no reason. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Celestina Apasionado Gallente Argent Industries	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:45:00 - [56] Originally by: Imperial scout BOB makes me Sick. I get sick alot when reading the forums o/ Ephemeron Beat their spirit down while you fight them and if they prove worthwhile after that thank them and tell them how appreciative of them you are. That is so wrong, Bob should learn a thing or two about etiquette.
j0sephine Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:50:00 - [57] "Truth is BoB has fought for the right to claim those regions, you've earnt it. Your pets, collaborators, partners, serfs....etc.. whatever....... have not. BoB is a closed circle, and your "partners" are out of that circle. So, its not quite the same is it? no matter how much you pretend it is." I'll go out on a limb here, but BoB seems selective about who they deem efficient enough to officially operate in their space. So while it may be correct to say such corps did not "earn the right to claim the regions" but then they aren't claiming such ownership. They are living in these regions because they're perceived to have what it takes to be there, while countless others don't make the cut. I think they deserve certain respect for that. As such --and this is generic remark, not aimed at anyone in particular-- i think anyone who wants to look down at them should first look at their own corporation and/or alliance, and try without bias to estimate if their own house is really in that much better order in comparison, to warrant this kind of attitude. And no, it doesn't mean BoB pilots have to switch to one of such corporations to prove anything, or that everyone must be mixed together like it's common in most alliances. Some people are more interested in conquer, some are more interested in settling systems. To each their own as long as they can utilize cooperation to the best interest of both parties involved.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.02 02:58:00 - [58] Originally by: shakaZ XIV Edited by: shakaZ XIV on 02/01/2007 02:37:00 Originally by: Shin Ra (...) the absolute worst thing for BOB would be if ASCN refused to give up and continue to fight a long geurilla war. There is no guerilla war, when it comes to space with only conquerable stations. You need dreads, the end. Unless you are hinting at (ex-)ascn people going to Delve, to cause trouble. Saying that would be "the absolute worst thing for bob" is hardly right either, it just costs bob and allies a couple of npc'ing ships a day/week and that's about it --> no real consequence. I personally believe that "guerilla" stuff only has a use if you back it up with brute force aswell (dreads/fleets), otherwise it's just a nuisance. It is fun to do, though. If ASCN retreated to say Stain with 200 of the most commited people they would be a major pain for BOB. I'm not saying they would be in any position to make a strike at NOL, but the situation in Fountain is not one that is favorable when compared to say Querious. The nuisance is the problem. The scale of which can be argued for days, but the mere fact it exists constitutes a problem.
HordeZla Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:04:00 - [59] Originally by: Victor Vision So BOB only respects loosers? I have so much respect for you that there won't be enought for anyone else! Try again!
Nez Perces Amarr Black Spot.	Posted - 2007.01.02 03:10:00 - [60] Originally by: Shin Ra If ASCN retreated to say Stain with 200 of the most commited people they would be a major pain for BOB. I'm not saying they would be in any position to make a strike at NOL, but the situation in Fountain is not one that is favorable when compared to say Querious. The nuisance is the problem. The scale of which can be argued for days, but the mere fact it exists constitutes a problem. Well that was ASCN's problem wasn't it, they simply didnt have 200 committed people... i'd say that they had 50 pilots with perhaps the kind of commitment necessary. Also they seemed unable to come up with a plan that would not squander any commitment that might have been forthcoming. Tbh the whole ASCN saga was just sad beyond belief. Makes you wanna cry. I would not be surprised if a good number of ASCN corps take BoB up on their offer to reside on their old homes. Furthermore those that are making the last "alamo" stand are doing it for old times sake. We are not going to see ASCN guerilla fighters causing BoB trouble.. they cannot be compared to SA for example who despite being disorganised, were actually fighters at heart.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:20:00 - [61] Edited by: Rebellion on 02/01/2007 04:29:58 Well, the term of endearment is indeed "pets", but that's in the same context that EVOL calls its new recruits "biatches" and various groups of people mining, npc or empire "*****s". So I hope people take note of the context. Anyway, BoB does not let anyone into BoB space, we pick the corporations or alliances carefully, not by subservience but by focus and discipline. They are under no lasting bonds with BoB. Nor do they form a major part of our industry. We also don't tell them what to do, apart from a handful of ground rules. To tell the truth, the reason why we have tenants is very simple. We have already recognized that it is impossible for our numbers to fully control all of the space that we own. This was a realization made 2 years ago, so it's not some new and revolutionary discovery to BoB (although it might be for non-BoB). Furthermore, we could also not fully exploit the resources in the said systems, so a lot of it would otherwise go to waste and, if we ever achieve our goal of conquering all of EVE, the loss will affect the market adversely, thus it's not a tenable plan. Therefore the best way to deal with the situation was to invite tenants. These would both be able to harness the untapped resources as well as police the space they reside in in order to protect their (and as a side effect, our) interests. We set it up in such a way as that they stand to benefit the most. We don't really need a significant part of the riches, as with or without the tenants, we would not be able to tap them anyway. The major benefit BoB gets is order. But of course, complete order is completely boring, so there are allowances made for things I like to call "entertainment". Additionally, I mentioned that the tenants are in no permanent and binding contract with BoB. This is one of the reasons why we don't allow structures to be built, with very rare exceptions. Once there are structures, there is a concept of property, and once there is property, there will be a concept of "I, and what I own". While the concept of "I" or personal freedom is not a problem, because BoB does not make impositions on personal freedom anyway, property is under more restrictive controls due to the nature that BoB does own the space. So while individuality is not an issue, individuality and property will give rise to a negative aspect of identity that carries politics with it. When politics gets into the equation, everything becomes more complicated. Thus the regions of BoB are intentionally kept quite politically sterile by maintaining that the dominant political entity is BoB. The tenants can actually leave any time they want. They can even turn on BoB anytime they want. Yet they don't. This is probably because the BoB 0.0 regions are arguably much more orderly and pleasant than empire space. Also maybe (just maybe), we're just too cool to hate once you get to know us. We have, of course, considered the possibility of tenants going against us. If and when that happens, BoB also stands to benefit indirectly, as our new opponents will have a good likelihood of being able to provide an entertaining fight, which can be argued as the prime objective anyway. Edit: As for ASCN's problems, the main thing I see is not being able to recognize what had to be done. It went as far as us telling them what was going wrong, because we already knew how it would end by the sings we were seeing, but this was flooded by catcalls of being propaganda.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:28:00 - [62] Originally by: Nez Perces Originally by: Shin Ra If ASCN retreated to say Stain with 200 of the most commited people they would be a major pain for BOB. I'm not saying they would be in any position to make a strike at NOL, but the situation in Fountain is not one that is favorable when compared to say Querious. The nuisance is the problem. The scale of which can be argued for days, but the mere fact it exists constitutes a problem. Well that was ASCN's problem wasn't it, they simply didnt have 200 committed people... i'd say that they had 50 pilots with perhaps the kind of commitment necessary. Also they seemed unable to come up with a plan that would not squander any commitment that might have been forthcoming. Tbh the whole ASCN saga was just sad beyond belief. Makes you wanna cry. I would not be surprised if a good number of ASCN corps take BoB up on their offer to reside on their old homes. Furthermore those that are making the last "alamo" stand are doing it for old times sake. We are not going to see ASCN guerilla fighters causing BoB trouble.. they cannot be compared to SA for example who despite being disorganised, were actually fighters at heart. I agree. Its not going to happen. Why not? Because BOB manipulated the situation to their favour. To the average citizen this is probably quite clever. But to some, it simply highlights their misguided approach to "respect" with regards to that fact that not quite all of their members know what to say and when. Still, they achieved all they set out to. But the OP's statement is still true.
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 04:36:00 - [63] I don't like to burst your bubble Shin Ra, but the Stain option had been recognized at the start of the war. This is why while the fighting was in TPAR, we were already eying C9N as a critical system because of its close proximity to Stain. BoB fully expects the population in Stain to increase as ASCN loses more space. BoB didn't have to manipulate anything. We're not a manipulative sort. One of the main mistakes people not in BoB make about how BoB does things is to attribute complexity where there is none. Things are kept unbelievably simple. The lack of a clue as to how to achieve what we have achieved through simplicity is what leads others to sour g*****and go "ah, we've already had that type of gameplay figured out, and it's not enjoyable for us".
This Alt is circumventing the no alt posting rule	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:39:00 - [64] Nice post, I think I'll take it. If a few kind words help these defeated corps to accept their new masters, let them have 'em. Atleast they haven't quit the game in defeat, that earns them atleast some measure of respect. Post with your main!
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.02 07:41:00 - [65] Originally by: Rebellion We're not a manipulative sort. Ok, this made me laugh out loud Still, if more people from your alliance posted the way you do, the amount of forum trolls who hate your guts would be smaller by quite a large margin. As for me, i don't really care what BoB does with their gameplay. A lot of people play a totally different game to each other and that's half the beauty of the game, the fact that to a certain extent you can twist it to cater to what you like best. What i don't like is the "my way is the right way to play" mentality that's exposed by some of your members. Every corp/alliance has that kind of people, but the reason most people blame you is because yours are the most vocal ones. Strangely enough, some of the BoB posters with the best signal to noise ratio are those that rarely if ever post here. Which leads me to believe that the rest are just regular johns bored at work who use the forums as a means to connect with the game universe till they can go home. I do it all the time as well, but i've never called anyone worthless, fool, troll or whatever else insulting, even if they sometimes look like they deserved it. If you are forum whoring at work, at least do it properly and get your lazy ass to write properly...half the smack is because people won't take the time to turn their one liner into a proper sentence. Smack and propaganda is not in the content, it's in the way you deliver said content. No matter how much people like to twist it, the prevailing forum etiquette here is misguided on at least two of its principles: 1) Winning in the game does not give you the right to run your mouth all day long because you "back it up ingame" in a non-RP section of the boards. That's the defining point to be honest. If people want to insult each other in a way that's directed to the avatars and not the real persons, the proper section of the boards is here CAOD is not a role playing board, so don't get upset if the other guy takes what you say at face value. 2) Respect is earned, that much is true. Nobody starts with zero respect though. Some people think they have the right to disrespect others simply because they think the "respect-meter" for someone you don't know is pointing at zero by default. This is also intertwined with the above point, you can disrespect avatars in the RP boards, but in non-RP ones you are insulting real persons. For those jokers (whatever alliance they reside in), i simply have to say that there is a minimum of respect that every one of us is entitled to, even them. That's why when i'm replying to one of them, i never call him/her a joker Well, it's getting a bit too philosophical and long-winded, but according to what i wrote above it wouldn't be much of a constructive contribution if i just got lazy and went with a broadly generalising statement like "BoB are a bunch of p*ss poor sports and lamers who verbally put down people for silly reasons in a space game and suffocate the community forums with an elitism approaching virtual reality fascism", would it?
Rebellion Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 08:28:00 - [66] Edited by: Rebellion on 02/01/2007 08:29:17 Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am Still, if more people from your alliance posted the way you do, the amount of forum trolls who hate your guts would be smaller by quite a large margin. I'm not quite sure how that would benefit us. One of the benefits of having a presence in the Corp Discussions forum that encourages opinionated responses is to identify targets. As for being manipulative, all I'll say is that there's a difference between distorting reality in order to mislead (my definition of manipulation) as opposed to presenting the situation clearly and bluntly, counting on the target to make the correct decision. A manipulator's success hinges on the target believing the deception, while when dealing with reality it is the one that has the clearest grasp who will succeed the most. When we came into EVE, the game was controlled by entities that wielded "fictional" might. We sought their destruction or reform, one way or another. That position is still maintained today. As for the tone of the various speakers in BoB, they are completely entitled to whatever they feel they must say. The matter of respect is thrown around a lot, and I think people fail to realize that the word refers to a purely qualitative attribute, and is thus completely relative (like the word "good"). To some, respect means deference and consideration, to others simple politeness is enough, even more increasingly do I see people conflate respect with the concept of approval. For instance, saying that we call our new recruits "biatches" might be interpreted as disrespect by someone unfamiliar with the context. I think it is arrogance to impose definitions on anyone, and for BoB in general, the respect we honor is the one earned by truthfulness and power. For myself, I have no distinguished identity, and I just hold to what Churchill said: "When you have to kill a man it costs nothing to be polite." Others prefer this to the blunt conciseness that others in BoB speak with, others still say that it's just sugarcoated poison and prefer the short version.
thoradh AirHawk Alliance Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 09:48:00 - [67] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am Originally by: Rebellion We're not a manipulative sort. No matter how much people like to twist it, the prevailing forum etiquette here is misguided on at least two of its principles: 1) Winning in the game does not give you the right to run your mouth all day long because you "back it up ingame" in a non-RP section of the boards. That's the defining point to be honest. If people want to insult each other in a way that's directed to the avatars and not the real persons, the proper section of the boards is here CAOD is not a role playing board, so don't get upset if the other guy takes what you say at face value. 2) Respect is earned, that much is true. Nobody starts with zero respect though. Some people think they have the right to disrespect others simply because they think the "respect-meter" for someone you don't know is pointing at zero by default. This is also intertwined with the above point, you can disrespect avatars in the RP boards, but in non-RP ones you are insulting real persons. For those jokers (whatever alliance they reside in), i simply have to say that there is a minimum of respect that every one of us is entitled to, even them. That's why when i'm replying to one of them, i never call him/her a joker Well, it's getting a bit too philosophical and long-winded, but according to what i wrote above it wouldn't be much of a constructive contribution if i just got lazy and went with a broadly generalising statement like "BoB are a bunch of p*ss poor sports and lamers who verbally put down people for silly reasons in a space game and suffocate the community forums with an elitism approaching virtual reality fascism", would it? Exactly > > Noli illegitimi carborundum! >
Elles D Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:28:00 - [68] lol, that shut them up
thoth foc Destructive Influence	Posted - 2007.01.02 10:44:00 - [69] Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am stuff Reading your post, i get the impression you think respect is being fuzzy and nice and sweet etc.. and i simply dont agree, honesty is much more respectful.
BlackDog Rackh'am Minmatar Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:09:00 - [70] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am stuff Reading your post, i get the impression you think respect is being fuzzy and nice and sweet etc.. and i simply dont agree, honesty is much more respectful. That was not my intention. Honesty is indeed respectful, being blunt beyond necessity and calling people idiots doesn't equal honesty though. For example, being respectful is me having an ingame negative opinion for the majority of your guys and still managing to broadcast this opinion while having a civil conversation with your members in a non-RP board. If i wanted to verbally belittle you, it should be directed at your avatars (otherwise i'd be a geek that's foaming at the mouth over pixels and imaginary money) and thus i'd have to do it in the RP threads. At the end of the day, it's a matter of moderation for me. If people want to get all fussy move their threads to the RP boards and let them have at it, while forcing a set of minimum dos and donts for the non-RP ones. We might identify each other through avatar names, but in this certain section of the forums we are the people behind the avatars. Sadly, a lot of players are so engrossed in our fake reality that can't distinguish the boundaries between avatars and real persons and that's where the problems start. In a forum that's not in character, everyone should be forced to uphold a certain modicum of dignity and respect towards other people or risk curtailment of their posting priviledges.
Justin Cody Caldari The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:18:00 - [71] Frankly I love BoB's diplomacy. Its the best, most nationalistic stuff outside of the CVA and Ushra'Khan. So they appear arrogant...who cares. Due to controlling Delve they are nearly indestructible...due to the insane jump distance for capitals. They operate from a position of strength and have great logistics. I for one admire them, and though I scoffed at their "War on Aridia Locals", they did once in a while make the run up past the 05 barrier into lower Syndicate. Sure they'd come with a minimum 50 man fleet...but so would I if I had the numbers. BoB are predictable, but they add a great flavor to EVE politics and are rather ubiquitous. I'd give them an A+ in politiking. and even ISS probably couldn't hire MC to attack them...ever. //speculation hats off to BoB's visionaries P.S. I loved pirating when your pilots were around. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
Will Fireblade Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:03:00 - [72] Originally by: Victor Vision Typical for BOB, dont remember them ever doing it differently: a) start a war b) smacktalk the enemy at a sickening degree during the war c) tell the enemy their respect after they lost, so they become good minions. So BOB only respects loosers? SOLUTIONS a) Fight back b) Block c) Dont lose :P
Admentus Cor'vion Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.03 07:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Victor Vision In my business there is no black, nor white. Just a million different shades of grey. Or, should I say, different shades of bull****. _______________________________________________ Black Avatar - One of the oldest corps in Eve. "The end and the beginning."
Laura Baretta	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:29:00 - [74] Smacktalk is a powerful weapon. It can make enemies do mistakes if they can't control their temper. Bob uses all weapons that are available in a war. Smacktalk is only bad if you use it and lose. Since bob didn't lose, their smacktalk was superior.
Shaa'dai Gallente Daiony Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:30:00 - [75] the above post was by me

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