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CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 1314	Posted - 2015.11.04 15:14:20 - [1] - Quote Team Psycho Sisters has been busy at work making a brand new scanning interface and solar system map for all of the curious explorers of New Eden to use. If you're one to find places to stick your nose in, you should read this latest dev blog for all of the details. CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics @CCP_Logibro


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2773	Posted - 2015.11.04 15:19:54 - [2] - Quote Quick update to start things off with. So, after taking the points given in the General Feedback, Issues thread, reddit, twitter, etc. onboard, here are some changes we'll be working toward: Make signature circles in Solar System Map (SSM) bigger Make them highlight if probes are over them (more obviously) One click to get to last custom formation Show all remaining signatures in the SSM after you ignore one in the Probe Scanner interface Add visual D-scan toggle to SSM window And here are some defects we're going to try fixing: Probe control box not always displaying Probe scanner width settings not correctly retained Signature list in Probe Scanning window snaps to top after each scan Various issues with filters, particularly custom filters General performance issues (keep those bug reports coming if you have performance issues - no multiple reports though from same computer please) D-Scan Overview Filters overhang bounding box Probe scanner interface not snappable to other windows Structure and Scan results are displayed inconsistently. Please note - this is not an exhaustive list! There are other issues that have been raised in these threads that we are researching more, or waiting to get more feedback on before committing to an action plan. For instance, there have been a lot of remarks about the scan progress lines, the color of the D-scan sphere, and such. These will be iterated on over time, so don't expect fast changes to them. The HUD showing through the Solar System map is something we'll have to put more time into investigating too - don't think that because it's missing from the above list that we've dismissed it or forgotten about it. I hope these changes show you effectively that we are committed to iteration and we still want your constructive, well explained feedback - so let's have it! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2773	Posted - 2015.11.04 15:25:25 - [3] - Quote Cristl wrote: Quote: due to the temporal nature of reddit What does this really mean? Isn't reddit just safer for devs to comment on, since they can't be held as accountable for stuff they say? Temporal nature = the fact that reddit threads go away fast in a short time, forever, rather than in forums where they are bumped to the top whenever they have activity. I am as every bit accountable for things I say on reddit as I am here. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2775	Posted - 2015.11.04 15:38:57 - [4] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Additional items to look at When probes first launch they are centered on the sun, it is very difficult to drag the probes off the sun unless you are fully zoomed in because the interface keeps grabbing and dragging the name of the sun. Labels should not be draggable UI elements. Same applies to the tiny probe "markers" that are possibly visible. The sides of the probe box (not the arrows) are very difficult to grab relative to the current "old map". You have to operate at a significantly deeper zoom to accurately grab the box. This makes it harder to properly position your probes when you need to be zoomed out more to see your target sphere. Scanning window does not pan with right mouse button held down. It snaps back to center making it impossible to use this as a means to move the map around. I gave up last night after fighting with the interface for 10-15 minutes and went back to the old map. If I have time soon I will try to record a session of me scanning out a wormhole and then repeat it using the new interface to show the differences. EDIT: Can you also take a peek and see if you can make probes center on the sun whenever you enter a new system. Currently when I move from WH to WH, the probes start centered on their last location which, given the AU variance between systems, could be far removed from the actual system objects. Not a big deal, just a little issue. 1. These can all be filtered in your Markers list at the top left of the Solar System map - use it to remove those popups you don't need. You can also make them less of an issue by turning down the pop-up sensitivity slider in the General settings menu. I did both of these things and it helped me immensely. 2. This is also a known issue, I just happened to log it after I compiled my post above :) 3. You mean the Solar System map? You have "Align camera to D-scan" selected, which blocks the panning functionality (camera paradigm, not something we can change). Unselect this for panning to work again. Reply to edit - I'll ask! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2775	Posted - 2015.11.04 15:43:36 - [5] - Quote Dominous Nolen wrote: Thanks guys, So far the new interface has been a pretty interesting change that I'm looking forward to the iterations on. As I've had limited time with it since the launch here are a few asks. Create the option to remove the probes from being shown on the map. The probe sphere is enough at times and I often find myself clicking "Probe X" rather then dragging the probe sphere/navigation block when the probes are in a tight cluster. There was an option in the beta map to remove them and I'd love to see it. Change the cone colour for the Dscan indicator so it stands out from the sig list (Green or yellow perhaps?) Make the probe window when in windowed mode act like the rest of the window objects and roll up rather then going to full screen on a double click As someone else asked please make the sig progress indicator look like the previous iteration rather then the thin line. So far I have really liked the updated, keep it up! The option to remove is called Markers and is in the top left hand corner of the Solar System map. I recommend using it extensively, at least I did! Cone color, as said in my OP above, is something we'll be iterating on down the line, no immediate changes planned, but will definitely be looked at Probe window - do you mean Solar System Map? Probe Scanner window rolls up. Solar System map goes full screen by design, as requested in the initial waves of feedback. Sig process - as with the cone color, something we won't tackle immediately but will definitely look at. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2776	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:04:02 - [6] - Quote Aaril wrote: Maybe I missed this, but if it does not exist, can the ability to filter out the visual dscan be added? When scanning I would prefer to have a clean interface. Right now I am having to drop my dscan range down to the minimum as a workaround. I also would prefer to have an option for the solid green/red bars instead of the line over the signature name. Having a line below the text makes it ambiguous to me when glancing at the sigs. Other than that I am happy so far. I presume the new map and this are supposed to live independently? With the new map, when choosing focus system, it would be nice to have this map appear instead of the cluttered solar system map we currently see. We're putting a toggle in for visual D-scan. Just about to test it once Sisi comes back up, actually! The lines, as stated, will be looked at but not in this release window. You are quite correct in your presumption with the new map. How the systems will interlink hasn't been looked at yet, but I would like something like you describe too :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2776	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:05:24 - [7] - Quote :farnsworth: Good news everyone! I've just returned from CCP Colgate's machine where he has managed to pull together having your HUD overlay the map when it's in fullscreen mode. Will be testing it either tonight or tomorrow, and all going well will get it to you soon :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2778	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:11:46 - [8] - Quote Odithia wrote: Will it be possible at some point to snap the Dscan/Camera to anomalies from the probe scan window ? It will make looking for targets in systems with a lot of anomaly much easier. Perhaps too easy ? We are a little concerned about the "too easy" part. Definitely one we'd prefer to sit on and monitor for a while rather than make that change now. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2783	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:34:21 - [9] - Quote Bagrat Skalski wrote: Isues that are driving me crazy with new scanning window: 1. What I noticed is sometimes the central probe box (that with with arrows on the sides) is lighted up red and when I click it fast after it lights up and try to move it it would not budge. 2. Now the directional scan cone is always present on probing window, but would it not be better if the cone or ball of it would be present only when togled on with a toggle on/off button? The same with probe balls. Toggle buttons! They exist!. 3. Still cant move the cursor to the edge of the scanning window, grab a scene and move it. I can in the old window. The cursor is just deactivated on the edge, there is some kind of frame there, blocking cursor action, in map window also, Get rid of it to allow cursor be responsive. 1. Yup - we are aware of this one and it'll get fixed 2. There's a toggle that I'm just about to test on Sisi! We don't like adding too many toggles as it greatly increases UI complexity both for users and for testing, but this one we were cool with since so many requested it and gave good use cases for it. 3. Do you mean probe sphere? We are aware of an issue with picking when the probe sphere is near the edge. In the meantime, give the new ways of resizing that we added a try! We put in bindable hotkeys for resizing (you can set them in Shortcuts > Combat) and also Alt-Mousewheel. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2783	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:35:27 - [10] - Quote Gospadin wrote: Steijn wrote: the green underline needs to change back to a solid green bar over the text imo. This. It's much harder for my eyes to process the thin lines versus the old thick background bars. Yup, noted. As I explained above, we will be taking another look at this, but not in this release window. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2783	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:45:17 - [11] - Quote DaReaper wrote: Lara Sunji wrote: It's ... Quite awful all things considered :/ more details about what you think is awefule. the only issu ei had last night was i could not move probes, so i shifted back to the old interface. So what exactly is 'aweful'. Was the box to move probes not appearing? You can fix that by pressing Shift or Alt once. Sorry about that... CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2783	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:45:35 - [12] - Quote Zosius wrote: Can you please return d-scan checkbox for active overview. It's very unproductive to select from drop down menu if i want to do a single scan with everything included Yeah that got mentioned elsewhere. Defect is in :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:46:34 - [13] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: Looking forward to the improvements! Two remarks, because not mentioned here: ... why did you change the placement of the dscan button to the left side? This is inconvenient for all folks who have the dscan on the left side (longer mouse distance from HUD/center). I presume most poeple have scanning stuff on the left side of the screen and overview stuff on the other. ... using both hands to rearrange probes (of a fixed formation) is a workaround but should not be mandatory. I need my other hand to operate the ship (e.g. CTRL) for targeting stuff on the overview, but even more important to hold the beer Can't really comment on the "why", but we also added hotkeys for these buttons to mitigate any negative effects of moving the button itself. They are mappable in the Shortcuts > Combat menu. EDIT: Whoops, submitted too fast! To answer your 2nd question - I maybe don't understand the use case of moving individual probes in a fixed formation. I can understand it back in the day when we had no formations at all and each probe had to be moved manually, but isn't the point of fixed formations to get away from moving individual probes within them? Not trying to be obtuse, just don't get the use case. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 16:49:44 - [14] - Quote Bagrat Skalski wrote: Quote: 3. Do you mean probe sphere? We are aware of an issue with picking when the probe sphere is near the edge. In the meantime, give the new ways of resizing that we added a try! We put in bindable hotkeys for resizing (you can set them in Shortcuts > Combat) and also Alt-Mousewheel. Its the mouse cursor not reacting to my click and move the whole scene with system view. I always could move cursor there to be sure I dont interact with any element on the scene and rotate the scene. Resizing is something else. Now you have to be more focused to grab a probing sphere, The grabable edges have shrinked a bit it seems, some people are not really good with that, but shorcuts are good. I think I will get used to them. I don't have this experience at all - can rotate/pan the map with LMB/RMB even up to the last pixel in the window at the side. Do you play with any UI scaling options, or anything else out of the ordinary? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:15:24 - [15] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: The new scanning map is not an improvement on the old map, but many steps backwards. I've been saying the same things about the new map for over a year but have seen little to no improvements. First and foremost, the new scanning interface is significantly less useful for combat scanning than the old map. All of the feedback I've seen for the new scanning map so far seems to be written by people who do not do combat scanning but who casually scan a few data/relic sites here and there, and sure, the new scanning interface is fine for that. But for any type of intensive scanning, no, the new scanning interface is a waste of resources and multiple steps backwards from the old scanning map. Some reasons include: 1) The old scanning interface gave different icons for different signatures on the map. Different types of structures had different icons on the solar system, making it very easy to tell what was a player ship, what was a research lab, what was a POS gun, and what was a drone. The new map completely loses that functionality and instead displays all signaturesGÇöfrom cosmic sigs to player ships to structures to dronesGÇöwith green dots, making it much harder to quickly sort through a cluster of signatures. (The one thing here I do appreciate is that in long lists of signatures in a cluster the new solar system map gives you a sidebar for scrolling through the listGÇöthis should be implemented to the old map.) The old map also had a way of GÇ£StackingGÇ¥ a cluster of signatures in such a way that it was easy to tell what was a cluster of a dozen signatures (e.g. ships or structures) versus what was a single entity. On the new map we just see green dots that communicate no useful information unless we hover over them one by one. 2) Lag. The new scanning map is significantly more laggy and less responsive than the old solar system map. This is a huge issue both for people who run EVE on older computers as well as for combat scanning where time counts for everything. The lag kicks in especially when you pan or move the camera around to see different angles, which is something you do very quickly when combat scanning and the new map doesn't seem to like fast movements. 3) The font on the scanning window is significantly harder for me to read than the old scanning window, especially when there are dozens of signatures. The white font on green background on the past window is easier to quickly read than the white font on black that 4) Lots of people have points this out, but the scanning and dscan windows lack the same transparency levels that other windows have in EVE. They are much darker and less transparent. 5) Moving the probes is now more difficult. I don't really know why, but it seems as if icons on the map get in the way of the probe movement arrows more than on the old map. This is also an issue of lag and responsiveness it seems. Thanks for the detailed feedback 1. We will not be backporting any functionality to the old map, but the point about icons is a good one. I'll raise it with CCP Colgate tomorrow and see if we can do something here. 2. If you are having performance issues with the map, please do submit a bug report so we can get your computer specs and settings. That's the best way for us to plan optimisations. Don't worry though, this is not "final form" 3&4. These should be fixed in the update going out tomorrow, to the best of my knowledge. We didn't change the font, but made the background match the scheme you've chosen, so readability should be markedly improved. 5. Try adjusting your Tooltip Delay a tiny bit in the General Settings menu. This help me immensely in this regard. Also make sure you are using Markers to remove things you don't need to care about (e.g. Probes, Belts, etc.). It is something we're monitoring though. 5. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:16:42 - [16] - Quote 5pitf1re wrote: This has probably been reported before but the new windows don't seem to remember the last focused window choice. That means, when I have both the DScan and scanning windows stacked into the same window and I activate or switch to the DScan window it will automatically switch to the scanning window when I jump through a gate. This behavior is rather annoying since I have to get back to the DScan window every time. This has actually been an issue for a really long time, but many seem to be noticing it more with these changes. I've been pressuring to get some developer traction on a fix. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:17:41 - [17] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: Quote: To answer your 2nd question - I maybe don't understand the use case of moving individual probes in a fixed formation. I can understand it back in the day when we had no formations at all and each probe had to be moved manually, but isn't the point of fixed formations to get away from moving individual probes within them? Not trying to be obtuse, just don't get the use case. Try scanning a Superior Sleeper Cache in a Stratios - even with Sisters Core Probe Launcher/Probes and all of the scanning array midslot modules in. You will have to move individual probes in the pinpoint formation around in order to get to 100%. Basically moving the entire probe formation in/out, and then probably a few individual probes around to get from like 99.5% to 100%. And I agree, that although I don't mind having the SHIFT/CTRL/ALT keys to make finding the probe adjustments easier, I want to be able to do it all with my mouse, since there's a lot of muscle memory to snapping around my view vertically/horizontally on the solar system map, and dragging and resizing probes. It seems less efficient to have to press SHIFT/CTRL/ALT to adjust the probes. Having the mouse wheel isn't bad, but you still have to hold ALT to use it which doubles your APM. Thanks for the detailed use case. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow (with no dev hax!) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:18:48 - [18] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: To answer your 2nd question - I maybe don't understand the use case of moving individual probes in a fixed formation. I can understand it back in the day when we had no formations at all and each probe had to be moved manually, but isn't the point of fixed formations to get away from moving individual probes within them? Not trying to be obtuse, just don't get the use case. No no, you got me wrong, just to make sure there is no need at any time to press a modifier key for the operation of the whole formation, i.e. moving it around the map (and grabbing in the first place), resizing the whole formation, switch formation (pinpoint -> custom -> pinpoint). Right on. There certainly shouldn't be any hard requirement for using a second hand, but it may be more efficient to do so. We are aware of an issue with moving the "box" right now though - that'll get fixed. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:19:17 - [19] - Quote Zosius wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Zosius wrote: Can you please return d-scan checkbox for active overview. It's very unproductive to select from drop down menu if i want to do a single scan with everything included Yeah that got mentioned elsewhere. Defect is in :) thanks. Would it also be possible to have signatures standout more? This dark theme takes a lot of focus to spot signature. especially smaller ships If you mean in the map itself, yes we are going to make them more visible. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:19:47 - [20] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: Not sure if this is known issue, but if you enable the new map and scanning interfaces, probes will work on the new map, but if you use F10 they are not usable on the classic map. I assume you'd have to disable the new feature and reload to get it working again? This is what the probes look like on the classic map when this happens: http://i.imgur.com/mfx23YV.png Logged EBR-53607. That's actually by design. The features are not supposed to be used together. It's either all old or all new. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2785	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:20:45 - [21] - Quote Desiderya wrote: The checkbox is really missing. Also, mostly out of curiosity as this is really annoying: Why have you decided to move the Scan button, especially as everything else is mostly untouched from the placement? ;) Checkbox as in "Active Overview Setting" D-scan checkbox? I don't know the "why", but we tried to counteract any inconvenience by adding in the scanning hotkey for both windows. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2804	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:32:03 - [22] - Quote Bagrat Skalski wrote: My scaling is 100% and there is line visible on the edges of the window, in fullscreen and in the fixed window mode. This is how it looks. And I would like two new upgrades to the window, specifically the bars that can be minimized. This is the vizualization. OK I see what you mean. This seems to only apply when the window is docked and you move the mouse outside of the client. I will discuss it with the programmer, no promises though. I'll also show your 2nd visualization. I think it's very elegant :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2804	Posted - 2015.11.04 17:33:16 - [23] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Tooltips are really bothersome while scanning. You can mitigate this to some degree by bumping up the tooltip delay, except for two things: 1. That's a global setting, and having to change it to accommodate scanning alone isn't necessarily desirable. 2. If you have a marker turned on in the system map, it seems to completely ignore that setting anyway, and instantly pops a tooltip if there is more than one marker-on item in the stack. There are some markers I do not want to turn off, e.g., stations, and gates, and these are commonly right on top of each other in astronomical distances, so if my probes are near them, I end up having to navigate around some entirely unwanted tooltip popup to manage my probes. This issue exists in the old map, as well, but the tooltips in that map are smaller and far less obtrusive. Edit: Ah, looks like the bracket list delay does remedy this a bit. But, again, see point 1. Global setting, not necessarily desirable. It would be nice if the probe cube were effectively "always on top" from a command interface perspective. There's pretty much never a time when I have wanted to click on something within the bounds of my probe cube(s) instead of the cube itself. 2 - Interesting. I'll do some more work on that tomorrow. As I say though, layering is something we want to take a 2nd pass at anyway - the tooltip delay is just a mitigation technique I am suggesting for now. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2808	Posted - 2015.11.04 18:01:35 - [24] - Quote Heading home for the evening. Will be checking out any more posts tomorrow morning! Fly safe, and keep that feedback coming :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2808	Posted - 2015.11.04 18:03:11 - [25] - Quote Aaril wrote: While the interface for probing is being looked at, is there any chance of signature storage being added? Even with "legacy code", there has to be some workaround. This seems like it could be through a signature database that kept track of the pilots who had scanned it, or the use of personal bookmarks in the background. I am just throwing things out there, but this really should be added. It makes no sense that signatures are forgotten. You're talking about what happens when you switch ships or leave systems, right? Sorry, totally out of scope for our team even if it is somehow technically possible. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:10:45 - [26] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: Cross posting from the other thread and hopefully trimmed things you already addressed in this thread. 1) When the dscan is locked to the camera view you can't center your view on anything else but your ship. That's very painful. Generally I will find a target at a cluster of stuff, warp closer to get a better angle, and do another scan. With the old map I could double click on my warpin and start lining up my next scan while travelling. Now I have to wait until my ship has accelerated/warped/decelerated before I can even start lining up my next scan. Those seconds really matter when you're hunting a moving target. 2) A bug I think - when I use a hotkey (default F9) to bring up the solar system map (in fullscreen mode) the focus becomes locked on the map and won't let me click any other windows (to manipulate dscan sliders, interact with overview, etc.) Instead I just end up rotating the map view. This did not happen when using the map icon in the scan window, just with the hotkey (which I rebound and did not try using the default F9). 3) Like many people I keep my dscan and probe scan tabs in the same window. After the update the default seems to be the probe scan tab and it switches to that every session change which is very annoying because dscan is much more important. 4) This isn't new but it always bugged me that the AU distance in the probe scan window never properly updated for anomalies/signatures while warping around the system. Very glad to hear the dscan toggle and fullscreen HUD are being added! Thanks for transporting the feedback! 1. We've gotten a fair bit of feedback about this and it's been raised with the developer. I would think the likely approach will be to move the d-scan camera lock button outside of its menu to be more easily clickable on the fly. 2. That does sound like a bug! Not one I can replicate myself though, would you do me the service of supplying a bug report? 3. That's actually a legacy issue but people seem to be noticing it more/its frequency has increased in this update. I've requested a fix to the issue. 4. The scanner window refreshes in kind of a strange way. It doesn't live poll like the overview, it only polls when it's refreshed, such as by applying a filter, or scanning. Not sure if changing that is in scope for our team to be honest. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:11:24 - [27] - Quote Max Kolonko wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: SurrenderMonkey wrote: Tooltips are really bothersome while scanning. You can mitigate this to some degree by bumping up the tooltip delay, except for two things: 1. That's a global setting, and having to change it to accommodate scanning alone isn't necessarily desirable. 2. If you have a marker turned on in the system map, it seems to completely ignore that setting anyway, and instantly pops a tooltip if there is more than one marker-on item in the stack. There are some markers I do not want to turn off, e.g., stations, and gates, and these are commonly right on top of each other in astronomical distances, so if my probes are near them, I end up having to navigate around some entirely unwanted tooltip popup to manage my probes. This issue exists in the old map, as well, but the tooltips in that map are smaller and far less obtrusive. Edit: Ah, looks like the bracket list delay does remedy this a bit. But, again, see point 1. Global setting, not necessarily desirable. It would be nice if the probe cube were effectively "always on top" from a command interface perspective. There's pretty much never a time when I have wanted to click on something within the bounds of my probe cube(s) instead of the cube itself. 2 - Interesting. I'll do some more work on that tomorrow. As I say though, layering is something we want to take a 2nd pass at anyway - the tooltip delay is just a mitigation technique I am suggesting for now. Please do. I raised this problem while it was still in testing and it seems You guys got little to focused on giving us options of filtering out things from map instead of fixing the problem that was non-existant in the old map Not so much a lack of focus as it not being as easy a fix as it might seem. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:12:15 - [28] - Quote Zacoya wrote: Aaril wrote: While the interface for probing is being looked at, is there any chance of signature storage being added? Even with "legacy code", there has to be some workaround. This seems like it could be through a signature database that kept track of the pilots who had scanned it, or the use of personal bookmarks in the background. I am just throwing things out there, but this really should be added. It makes no sense that signatures are forgotten. For explorers, it would be a big quality-of-life improvement not to lose this information across jumps. (And while you're at it, remember the best hit instead of the most recent hit.) I totally appreciate that, but it's just not technically feasible for us in the time we have. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:13:48 - [29] - Quote Kynric wrote: Two new pain points appeared yeaterday: 1. To conserve screen space I generally stack my dscan and probe window so that they are tabs on the same bit of real estate. With yesterdays change I noticed that when the dscan window os on top and I jump systems the probe window becomes the active tab which is anoying because my desire is to see dacan results rather than anomolies and sigs. 2. The check box that specified if filters are to be ised or if all is to be shown on the dscan is no longer present. I know I can get the same functionality but it now takes more time/button clicks. That button was very valuable to me, please consider restoring it to the UI. My habit is to narrow the angle and then click it so that I see everything as that provides a valuable picture. It is the differ3nce between a ship at a celestial and one that is not as well as the difference between a ship at a forcefield and one in space with drones out and a movile tractor. 1. This one is a legacy issue and it seems to have either gotten worse or been more noticeable in this update. I've requested a fix. 2. Many have brought this up - we'll put it back :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:15:00 - [30] - Quote Hiljah wrote: Hi Goliath, Thanks for the patience. Is there a way to turn the arrows on the cursor off? I'm sure other people might want just the arrows, but I only ever click on them accidentally. Thank you, Hiljah Not that I know of, sorry! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:17:30 - [31] - Quote Styphon the Black wrote: The Probe Scanner is suck! Seriously do you even play EVE? Because with releases like this and the new map it is like you have no clue how players interface with the game and what the term "USER FRIENDLY" means. I had to turn it off after getting frustracted with it after about my 10 system scanning with the new probe scanner. I really can't give feedback on the new DScan because you have the two locked together on either using them or not. I would like to see an option to use the new DScan but opt out of the new Probe Scanner Interface. Basically the probe window is completely intrusive and sets overtop everything else blocking important other windows like local and the overview. If you resize it down to a manageable size you can no longer see enough of the system you are attempting to scan. Atop that I could create a list 20 lines long about how the new scanner isn't designed correctly but I really don't care anymore because I see it as a complete fail and will not be using it. When you design a change to something like a probe scan or DScan you need to understand that they "player" is going to use either the easiest or most effective method (ie, less time consuming method) for locating their target. So if you design a system that is actually takes longer and is more difficult to use obviously the player is not going to use the new "upgrade". Not only do I play, I play most days of the week, and I live in a wormhole and scanning takes up about 75% of my play time. The probe window you are referring to I assume is actually the Solar System map? In fullscreen mode it sits behind the overview and chat (and other windows) and we're about to fix it so that it shows the HUD too. I believe the blog details how deeply we involved players in our testing and developing of the feature, and still are. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:21:00 - [32] - Quote Arla Sarain wrote: Bracket hitboxes are still huge and make it difficult to grab the sides of the scanning cube when it's on top of a celestial or sig bracket. Glitches and Stuttering/low FPS when there is a lot of bookmarks. Bookmark texts persists sometimes, after the mouse no longer hover over the balloon. Layering (your first concern) is going to get another pass. I've heard some performance complaints and would ask you to submit a bug report from within the client so that we get your settings, specs, etc. That will greatly help us with optimization efforts. The persistent text - is it part of a stack of more than 1 object? If so, that's by design. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:23:19 - [33] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: .... I hope these changes show you effectively that we are committed to iteration and we still want your constructive, well explained feedback - so let's have it! Hi Goliath. I think you have covered most of it there already. I would also suggest tidying up the icons in general on the solar system map, such as for asteroid belts, planets, etc. Also please remove those huge red arrows when resizing probes as they look out of place. Finally you really need to watch these excellent videos which illustrate the main issues far better than I am able to put in words. Shade Millith wrote: Click and drag on the blue sphere to resize probes is not working properly, and often flat out doesn't. Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPohxMoYTI New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHtKE95VeE Planet/Gate/Moon/Station icons still take preference over the icon for moving the probes. Leading to attempts to move the probes to fail. This is especially bad with the new system, because the new Planet/Gate/Moon/Station icons have a much larger hitbox than their graphic would suggest. Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKbZkLXPniw New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmfh4i3hty8 When selecting a gate or planet/moon on your overview, or in space, the old system selected the object in the map as well. This let you quickly identify and orientate yourself while combat probing, and knowing where to put the probes on the map. Especially useful for quickly placing probes on where a hostile warped to. Old System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyCGElce_nw New System - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEujqHHi6N0 These are three BIG issues I ran into while running prober for a gang, and caused me to take a lot longer to get probes on target than the previous probe system. Of smaller note, it's much harder to see Red results in space, with the icon being silly small and dark. Especially amongst the red sphere of D-Scan. Thanks for the videos, super useful stuff. Where did that post come from btw? Did I just miss it in one of the threads? When you say "tidying up" icons, what do you mean exactly? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:26:27 - [34] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: To make sure this is not overlooked ... the new dscan does not automatically update the results when changing angle and range without scanning again. The current dscan does this auto-update, which significantly speeds up finding targets. So is this a unnoticed regression/bug or a planned nerf? ... also the option to toggle dscan lock should IMO be in the dscan window and not be part of the map controls, you need that option very often, so a hotkey would be handy. But in general I prefer mouse control for scanning/flying, and the fewer clicks and shorter mouse path the better ... that's also why I'm not a friend of having the dscan button moved to the left. For you it may look cosmetic but for me it is a regression, because there is no equally convenient setup. Also on the top of my screen there are the collapsed chat windows, so I can't reach the map controls easily without moving the windows away ... small things maybe, but they add up to make the interface less usable. It autoupdates for me? That's quite interesting. Could you submit a bug report following replicating the bug so I can see some logs please? Not sure where toggle will end up at this time. We might try putting it in a few different places and see which one gets clicked most :P I find the latter point interesting too - a few people have asked for the map controls to be "popout" when the map goes into fullscreen - what do people think about that? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:27:37 - [35] - Quote Mixu Paatelainen wrote: I like the new dscan, but I dislike probe functionality on the beta map. My issue is if I want to use the new dscan, I don't appear to be able to probe with the old map, as there are no spheres around my probes, and ctrl/alt doesn't show up anything. Working as intended? Working as intended. We aren't mixing and matching, sorry. Sweet name btw, 'mon the Terrors! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:40:14 - [36] - Quote Ransu Asanari wrote: For the Probe Results window, can we have some way to quickly refresh the signatures - either automatically, or via a toggle or button? Whenever you 100% scan down signatures, or are viewing the anomalies, the ranges are based on your current location. If you warp away, they don't update automatically. In the past, I would toggle "Show Anomalies" on and off quickly to force a refresh. This helps me see which wormhole I am closest to warp to, or if I am on grid. I usually order by range so I can ignore signatures as I land on them and bookmark and map on Siggy/Tripwire. Because there is no "Show Anomalies" toggle anymore, we have to click into the filter list and then click on/off Anomalies to force a refresh. This doubles the clicks needed to refresh. I know I could use the mapped hotkeys to adjust the filter, but that only works if I'm focused on the probe window. Could we get a "Refresh Results" button, or have some way for the anomaly/signature results to automatically refresh range when we warp or come out of warp? The window refreshes in a really weird way. I will be talking to Colgate about it though, since quite a few have mentioned it. It probably won't autorefresh like the overview, but I'm sure we can do something. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:41:17 - [37] - Quote beakerax wrote: Nah, I was leaving 10+ seconds between scans while testing this. edit: nvm, I see what you're saying now. I'm pretty sure the sliders on the old interface do trigger a scan, though. Yup, they do CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:45:05 - [38] - Quote Canon Makanen wrote: There are a few things that make my want to use the old probe UI rather than the new one: 1) Really lag, the old probe window and solar map is much smoother. 2) it is hard to drag the probe and move it, the new prober UI this will make me miss my target even just a few second delay. 3) Hard to identify the results i just have scanned and dev has already known that, I think it will be fixed soon though 4) In full screen mode the modules disappear, which will also be fixed soon 5) the "Scan result" window is not as clear as the old one, just make the letters larger maybe i) for the new map, still, hard to see which one is station and moon, please just make different color for the station and the directional scan help line the shortcuts are sweet, and make this UI smooth to use. 1. If you're having performance issues, please submit an in-client bug report (F12) so we can get your specs and settings. 2. Clicks not registering? I have a vague theory this is related to performance too. 3. Not in this release, but we'll be taking a look at colors and lines in the next release period. 4. Yeah that fix is working nicely and should be out next Tuesday 5. In D-scan or Probe Window? Could be a background color issue - that's also getting fixed. i. You mean icon-wise? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2818	Posted - 2015.11.05 09:46:47 - [39] - Quote Blacktide Bakersmith wrote: Changing my tune. After playing with the new scanning for a day, and figuring out how to turn off most of the annoying tooltips, especially the probes that prevented me from being able to easily move the probe formation around, I am now liking the new scanning setup. The ease of use is better, and the shortcuts help. There is definitely room for improvement though. Beginning with making the D-scan perimeter display less intrusive, or a different color so it doesn't distract from my probing. And once again, I've got to say, that the destroy active probes button needs to be removed or relocated. Its in a very bad place. I use the button to activate the map all the time, and having it right next to a commonly used button seems like you're asking for trouble. Do we really need that button? Yeah we kinda went "out of the frying pan into the fire" with that button placement. We were so focused on getting the Recall probes button far away from "Analyze". I actually don't know what the use case of that button is. Answers on a postcard! We'll be taking a look at colors most likely in the next release. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:04:52 - [40] - Quote SGNL wrote: Forgive me if this has already been asked. What is the point of the transparent red orb in the new scanner module, is it for point of view or something? Can it be disabled? It's very intrusive. It's a visual representation of the Directional Scanner. It can be disabled currently by closing the Directional Scanner, but we are adding a toggle to have D-scan open and not display the visual representation. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:05:59 - [41] - Quote Yasuo Aldent wrote: I'm not sure if this issue has been addressed yet but the new scanning window/system does not seem to work in the old map (sigs/anoms/scan spheres are not visible). The new windows look great and i'll give them a 5/5 when I can use them in the old map. (which btw guys, is the best map to scan in). Might I make a suggestion: Keep the new map to have all the nice colors, icons, zoom-in/drill down features etc. but allow scanning to be exclusively performed on the old map and call it the "scanning map" or something. From what I've seen of the scanning on the new map, scanning on the old map is by far superior in speed and usability. The systems are not compatible, and right now we have no plans to make them work with each other, sorry. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:09:51 - [42] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Thank you for the suggestions, I was able to scan a wormhole system with minimal deficiency from the old map with many of the items (belts, probes, etc) turned off. Couple comments on things to either reinforce what has been previously said or new observations: With the new scanning interface set to "not track camera" for d-scan, you cannot do a targetted 5% dscan by moving your POV in the new map and hitting a scan. It always scans where you camera is pointed. Thus, you have to enable the "dscan tracks camera" option to achieve the desired effect. Turning this on renders map panning useless during probe scanning so I'm finding I have to repeatedly turn on and off this feature in order to get the desired dscan and probing functionality I need. My POV on the new map with the camera track off should mean that dscan follows my map POV, not my camera. Signature dots need to be larger and brighter and circles need to be more pronounced (I believe you've noted this already) as well as the dscan sphere/cone being able to be hidden. Bounding boxes on most non-probe items are too big. Probes should always take precedence over other items The underline for probe percentage is too hard to tell if it is for the entry above or below. Go back to the fill method. I don't really see a reason to change this. Please review wormhole sounds while the scanning window is full-screen. In the past, you would not hear wormhole activations unless you exited and re-entered the map while on grid with a wormhole. This shouldn't be necessary. Non-fullscreen seems to work fine. Previously warped to wormholes no longer show the label "Unstable Wormhole" on the map without hovering. This was a key dscan targetting tool as those signatures would stand out from others making it easy to look for a decloaked ship on a wormhole. Combine this with the first point about dscan/camera behavior and finding a ship transiting a wormhole with the new map is significantly harder. It would be nice if highlighting a scanned signature on the map should highlight it in the results window 1. We will be making some kind of change in this area, probably making the button more accessible. The camera tracking thing is just a camera paradigm that we can't currently touch 2. We are indeed making changes to sig dots and D-scan visual will be toggleable 3. Don't think the bounding box will change, but we will have another pass at layering 4. We'll be taking a pass at lines and colors likely in the next release 5. Will check it out, but if you wanted to file a bug report to remind me I would not be sad 6. Interesting point - will bring this up with Colgate 7. Yup, good point. It worked that way before and so should in this map too. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:11:06 - [43] - Quote Alle Monte wrote: My major bug and the reason I haven't been able to use the new dscan is, for me, the ship hud needs to be visible when the map is in full screen - not hidden behind it. Hope you can fix that as I'm sticking with the old scanner until then. Also the additional red hatched sphere thing around my ship is uneccesary and clutters an already busy screen. Not sure what its purpose is but I don't need it. edit - prefered the anoms with a green background. It's so obvious like that. Yup, we'll be fixing the HUD thing. The red sphere is a visual representation of your D-scanner. That will also be toggleable (though currently isn't without closing D-scan) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:13:24 - [44] - Quote TheRealRickRoss wrote: After hating the new scanners/map at first I'm getting the hang of them, but there's a few annoyances, maybe already mentioned in this thread. 1) The new red sphere on the map showing your D-scan range is awesome, but maybe blue or something would be better. It's way to similar to the sigs and makes it confusing a lot of the time. 2) Another colour issue, sigs (once you get them probed down to a red circle or further) are way to dark. 3) The arrows for moving the probes are too small. 4) After scanning something down and ignoring it, all the other sigs used to appear on the map again, this no longer happens and it sucks tbh. So yea mostly UI issues there, and don't get me wrong I do love the new systems and appreciate the work gone into it. 1. We're going to take colors on in the next release most likely 2. We're going to lighten the sigs in an upcoming patch 3. First time I've seen a comment about them being too small! Usually people say they're too big. Will keep an eye and see if a trend develops. 4. This is a defect and we'll be fixing it in an upcoming patch CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:16:48 - [45] - Quote Adan Natrier wrote: No postcard. I will offer a roleplay narrative of a cowardly low sec gate camp pirate. Much like any ~elite pvp~ player, anything that looks like an actual fight should be avoided. Killing newbies is the best way to pad killboards, preferably by listing skillbooks one jump out of high sec near to a mission system as incidental bait. With alt scouts every side (paid for from scamming, blending kittens on youtube videos for plex, or whatever), hiding just off grid of the high sec gate, so that even if someone has a friend to scout for them in a frigate (as if), they won't report anything as they go through. After all, newbies (or high sec players in general) don't know how to use dscan or much of anything at all. They did not have to dscan pretty much every structure in nullsec and paste its result into some data vampire spreadsheet. Several times. Anyway, this really can't be caught by surprise. After all, if you can dscan, and that shows combats on it, so even though there are times of being lazy and using the same spots pretty often, you'll never not see those combats coming. It'd be terrible if someone preplaced them, like a trap; launched and > 2094370180km from any celestials, while dscanning the gate themselves from marginally under that. With those combats preplaced, around the gate and ready to run. And then immediately selfdestructed them. Yes. That might just be fast enough they'd never show. Thank god they can't do that. Or even have the choice leave them behind, deliberately in space and in a specific position (to catch them at that perch they always run to, to check for a bubble when they're being chased) and to reconnect to later, after going to another system because they're forced to recall them on jump, and tediously reposition them when or if they come back. Yes, I'm so glad all the probing changes were sourced from asking pve players for feedback running silly sites. It's not like speed is everything, in combat probing. Got to go. There's a badger coming. Umm, I asked tons of combat probing questions though and specifically sought out combat probing feedback? I'm afraid your pithy banter has usurped your point. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:17:25 - [46] - Quote Lara Sunji wrote: Will the color ever look the same like the rest of my ui? It's really distracting looking at a black box. http://s20.postimg.org/imde3l81p/hmm.jpg Pin enabled as well. This is a defect. Should have been fixed yesterday but there was an issue with the port. Coming in a patch near you soon (not today) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:18:19 - [47] - Quote TheRealRickRoss wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: It autoupdates for me? That's quite interesting. Could you submit a bug report following replicating the bug so I can see some logs please? Not sure where toggle will end up at this time. We might try putting it in a few different places and see which one gets clicked most :P I find the latter point interesting too - a few people have asked for the map controls to be "popout" when the map goes into fullscreen - what do people think about that? I find it sometimes auto-updates and sometimes not. I think maybe the times it doesn't is because you're changing range too fast (2 seconds) and it's a bug not telling you? I can definitely go too fast and have it not update, yeah. That's not a bug though, that's just picking how you want to use the system. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:21:26 - [48] - Quote Malice Redeemer wrote: Guess I will report my suggestions that seemed to get ignored on the other thread. It's way more clunky to turn anomalies on and off. Give us a check box for that filter and possibly signatures that isn't in that dropdown. Remove the word Cosmic from anomalies and signatures, it is just wasting space in the name column of the scanning window. The title bar menu for the map in fullscreen should be made moveable. Sorry if I missed your post :( How is it "more clunky" to press 1 than it is to click a checkbox? We're looking in to map controls being more flexible when in fullscreen mode. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2819	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:22:46 - [49] - Quote TheRealRickRoss wrote: Goliath you're my new favorite dev. To show my commitment to this I baked you a cookie and it was very tasty, thank you. Edit: Thanks for the awesome answers above. As for my finding the arrows to small, it's perhaps my habit to stay quite zoomed out while probing. I should probably change this, or alternatively it there was a system that would determine the size of the arrows based on your zoom level, i.e big ones if you're zoomed out enough to see the whole system, and smaller ones if you're up close to your sig working on the last couple AU. Cheers Taking those sugar bullets so I don't have to, what a hero :) Right now the arrows scale on window size, so maybe we can do something with zoom - I'll run it past CCP Colgate. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2825	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:27:12 - [50] - Quote We just pushed out some fixes for the scanner. You'll need to restart your clients (and launcher, if you're using the non-beta launcher) to get them if you're logged in at time of post. Notes are: Deleting custom filters now works as intended and does not delete the last filter in the list Ignoring signatures will now correctly cause all other unignored signatures to appear in the solar system map Cosmic signatures will all continue to display in the Solar System map if all were displaying and one is right clicked Signature list will no longer snap to the top of the list after each scan/refresh HUD is now visible on top of the Solar System map when in fullscreen mode Bindable Zoom hotkeys now function correctly in the Solar System map Probe Scanner filter hotkeys will now only apply if the window is active or if the mouse is held over it. As a result, Save Location will now work correctly when numbers 1-5 are used in the name of a location Directional Scanner visualisation is now toggleable via the Solar System Map Probe Scanner window now obeys transparency and pinning settings CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:50:20 - [51] - Quote Moloney wrote: Please think of DOS for simple applications. Scanning is a simple application, please leave it as such since all we want out of it is speed. The current version works very well for this. About the only addition that you could make to improve the current scanning is adding the short cut for Scan. While I appreciate that you are correct that scanning and speed are importantly intertwined, leaving it as it is is not on the menu, sorry. Please engage with our new feature set (which has a scan shortcut!) and help us make it the interface you want to use in the future. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:52:42 - [52] - Quote Pandora Bokks wrote: Getting used to the new system will take a while but in general, I think it will be better over time. I have a question though: Have you touched scanning mechanics (the math behind it) somehow? I have the strong feeling that it is harder to get results after patch (max skills / full mid-grade virtue clone / rss probes). Funny thing is that it seems especially to be true for the easy sigs that I was able to get an instant hit with 4 AU diameter before. To add - I would be extremely happy if you made/make probing harder, so this is by no way a complaint. We haven't touched it at all, but with Brain in a Box it is totally possible that there is something going on with scanning skills, implants, ship hull bonuses, modules and/or charges. My advice is to submit a bug report detailing your observations and the implants, hull, modules, probes, etc. and I'll add it to my aggregating defect. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:54:07 - [53] - Quote Vegare wrote: Thanks for listening to all of our feedback! If not for a few remaining issues I'd say the new solar system map is now ahead of the old one regarding features and functionality. Merging probing and d-scanning in a far more obvious way was definitely the way to go. However IGÇÖd like to put some emphasis on an issue that has been raised before. Namely the way that the new map handles the celestials that are selected by clicking on them outside of the map window (which puts them in the GÇÿselected item windowGÇÖ). That is: it does nothing. The old functionality strikes me as rather fundamental to orientation on the map. A simple click on an objects bracket showed you the location of the object you were looking for. Double clicking an entry, for example in the overview, would even center the map on it. One possible use case comes up while trying to identify a feasible celestial to ping to before warping to an out gate. Open map, double click gate on overview, map centers on gate, check for pings, d-scan, warp and jump and hope thereGÇÖs no camp on the other side. The other thing that seems to be critical is to be able to see your ships HUD when having the map on full screen. However, I take youGÇÖre already on that one. While on it just please remember that some people have the HUD at the top of the screen. It might interfere with the map controls. Thanks again for your great work. Very interesting point. I've added it to the list! Thanks :) HUD fix is out now, hope you've got it. Map controls being more flexible in their positioning is something on the list of things to look at. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:55:42 - [54] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: In regards to tidying up the icons on the solar system map I will try to be more subjective: I would suggest they need to look more unified, so for instance some of the icons are very large compared to others and very prominent, and there are many different colours and shapes, which I believe makes it look a little messy. I think signature and probe results need to be clearer and unified in appearance as in the original system, and also the celestial icons need to be a little more defined and smaller so that more can be seen on screen. At the moment I didn't find them useful for identifying the difference between planets and asteroid belts for example. Yup, sig appearance is definitely on the list. Icon style isn't something that's in scope for us to change too dramatically though, sorry. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:57:40 - [55] - Quote Rainbow Prism Colorblind wrote: Just a small note here with the new scanning map, i know it have some know issues so I'm just going to skip asking about all that and go for the main problem i been having, or wish to have changed? it just a small detail but it bugs me at the moment. Namely the D scan Bubble in the new mapper, why does it have to be red, Blue or green would be better to offset it from all the signatures or it get kinda bloated up when you try to aim the d scan toward a signature that some pray may be hiding at. Also I would like some input from others if they would think a colour change? or custom colour setting? is a good/bad idea? Just want a small answer so my brain would stop chew in the little things... Fly less safe and fly fast! o7 We've received a good amount of feedback on this and are committed to revisiting colors and lines, but not in this release. Almost certainly will be the next release. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:58:24 - [56] - Quote Quiggle Queue wrote: Could you please add some background color to each probe scanner entry, as the old one had. It would make it alot easier to visually see the differences between the lines of text. In the post above I've noted our intended approach to this. Hope it helps CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:58:57 - [57] - Quote Lara Sunji wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Lara Sunji wrote: Will the color ever look the same like the rest of my ui? It's really distracting looking at a black box. http://s20.postimg.org/imde3l81p/hmm.jpg Pin enabled as well. This is a defect. Should have been fixed yesterday but there was an issue with the port. Coming in a patch near you soon (not today) \o/ Thanks! OK so all is good, I thought the fix was applied already but I honestly couldn't tell the difference. Good to know. The patch note went out, but we accidentally the changelist CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:00:36 - [58] - Quote Hiljah wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Hiljah wrote: Hi Goliath, Thanks for the patience. Is there a way to turn the arrows on the cursor off? I'm sure other people might want just the arrows, but I only ever click on them accidentally. Thank you, Hiljah Not that I know of, sorry! Thanks. Glad to hear you play and scan in a wormhole. Is there any chance the cursor could be changed? If not, another option would be to add axis locking hotkeys. For example, grab the cursor anywhere, hold x to move along x axis. The use case for "destroy probes" is to quickly hide them from other people's d-scan, but I really don't think anyone uses this. Destroying and recalling probes is supposed to have the same time, technically speaking. I think there might be a perception thing here :) Very interesting stuff! The cursor appearance isn't something we're going to change in this release, but I've added it on the list of discussion points for when we visit colors and lines. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:02:20 - [59] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: It autoupdates for me? That's quite interesting. Could you submit a bug report following replicating the bug so I can see some logs please? I find the latter point interesting too - a few people have asked for the map controls to be "popout" when the map goes into fullscreen - what do people think about that? Will do once I'm back at my gaming PC (week after next). map controls popout, hmm interesting, would need to try it and probably stack it with something else. Also the current way in the old map is quite OK. Yeah something like the World Map Control Panel, but smaller and only dealing with Solar System commands, was kinda vaguely what I had in mind when I wrote "popout" CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:04:33 - [60] - Quote Masao Kurata wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: I actually don't know what the use case of that button is. Answers on a postcard! +------------------+ \| Getting probes \| \| off d-scan while \| \| your hull is too \| \| full to recall \| +------------------+ A shiny penny to you, my man! First use case for destroying probes that hasn't been tongue in cheek, or repeatable in another fashion. Also, plaudits for "postcard" construction CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:08:28 - [61] - Quote Masao Kurata wrote: Reposting some feedback I feel strongly about since the thread to post feedback in keeps changing: CCP Goliath wrote: iwannadig wrote: When using 8 probe tight formation one probe is always at center of positioning cube making extremely hard to move it, because cursor always selects probe instead of the cube side. Probe selection must be optional with default set to OFF. I recommend removing Probes from your Markers list in the top left of the window. You can still manipulate the probes as you could before. Have you considered that if people are widely complaining about something and you yourself had to workaround it by changing your settings in a way that reduces functionality, it is in fact a genuine issue that needs to be addressed, not a problem with the user's settings? This would be completely resolved by giving probe controls absolute priority for hovering and clicking. Ignore all markers under the probe controls (still display them, but no tooltips or ability to select them), On another note, I feel like the dscan camera lock could use a hotkey, and the menu bar is too thick. It's thicker than the gap that windows snap to near the edge of the screen to allow off camera brackets to show, so the title bars of other windows can get in the way of operating the menu in full screen mode. Well, in the instance of probes specifically, I'm not suggesting a workaround, rather educating on the use cases of the new feature, which might not be immediately obvious to everyone. The tooltip sensitivity suggestion I've been banding around is a bit of that too, but also a bit of a temporary workaround while we take a second pass at layering. If everything under the probe spheres (which are still part of the controls) was unselectable I feel not only would that be less intuitive, but also that it would annoy people in a different way. We've got an item to make D-scan toggle more accessible on the "things to look at" list. When you say menu bar, do you mean the Solar System map? Specifically the map controls? Making them more accessible in fullscreen mode is also on the list. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:11:21 - [62] - Quote Cara Forelli wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Cara Forelli wrote: 1) When the dscan is locked to the camera view you can't center your view on anything else but your ship. That's very painful. Generally I will find a target at a cluster of stuff, warp closer to get a better angle, and do another scan. With the old map I could double click on my warpin and start lining up my next scan while travelling. Now I have to wait until my ship has accelerated/warped/decelerated before I can even start lining up my next scan. Those seconds really matter when you're hunting a moving target. 2) A bug I think - when I use a hotkey (default F9) to bring up the solar system map (in fullscreen mode) the focus becomes locked on the map and won't let me click any other windows (to manipulate dscan sliders, interact with overview, etc.) Instead I just end up rotating the map view. This did not happen when using the map icon in the scan window, just with the hotkey (which I rebound and did not try using the default F9). 1. We've gotten a fair bit of feedback about this and it's been raised with the developer. I would think the likely approach will be to move the d-scan camera lock button outside of its menu to be more easily clickable on the fly. 2. That does sound like a bug! Not one I can replicate myself though, would you do me the service of supplying a bug report? 1. That doesn't sound like a great fix for my use case, because I am warping around the system specifically to dscan. I don't want to have to toggle my dscan on and off (via camera lock) between scans just so I can warp around. The old map used a camera lock style dscan and still allowed for centering on any object. (This did lead to some funky scans when you weren't centered on your own position, but I consider that user error). Toggling off the camera lock will probably slow me down even more than the current situation so I probably wouldn't use that fix much. 2. I submitted a bug report (filed under technical EBR-53989). After replicating it seems to only have occurred on the second use of the rebound hotkey (which was a mouse button if that makes any difference). Thanks! 1. This is unfortunate, would a hotkey help at all? The old map used a very different paradigm in the camera as far as I know, and we can't mess around with the camera right now as it's already being messed around with for the future. 2. Thanks very much - will give it some repro attempts today. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:17:13 - [63] - Quote Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: [quote=Sven Viko VIkolander] Thanks for the detailed feedback 1. We will not be backporting any functionality to the old map, but the point about icons is a good one. I'll raise it with CCP Colgate tomorrow and see if we can do something here. 2. If you are having performance issues with the map, please do submit a bug report so we can get your computer specs and settings. That's the best way for us to plan optimisations. Don't worry though, this is not "final form" 3&4. These should be fixed in the update going out tomorrow, to the best of my knowledge. We didn't change the font, but made the background match the scheme you've chosen, so readability should be markedly improved. 5. Try adjusting your Tooltip Delay a tiny bit in the General Settings menu. This help me immensely in this regard. Also make sure you are using Markers to remove things you don't need to care about (e.g. Probes, Belts, etc.). It is something we're monitoring though. 1. Refusal to backport any new features is a worrying trend, because of the history of failed revisions of systems in EVE. The old map and old scanning systems are still far better and more functional than anything the new features offer. 2. I have submitted bug reports but honestly the lag is extremely widespread and easy to catch. Look, someone even posted a youtube video of it for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjKsNTCy4aY&feature=youtu.be You don't get anywhere near that amount of lag with the old map. 1. We have a set amount of time that we can spend on this. We'd rather spend it entirely on making the new feature, which will inevitably replace the old, as good as it can possibly be, than trying to develop and support two systems in tandem. Sorry, just the way it is. 2. Easy to catch is a mislead. If everyone had performance problems with the new system, this thread would be awash, and I wouldn't have time to post here because I'd be processing bug reports all day. I get that it's very obvious when it occurs, but please believe me when I say that I haven't experienced it myself, nor is it realistic for me to conduct performance tests on the staggering array of hardware that a widespread userbase will utilise. It's not seeing the issue that I especially need, it's the computer specs and client settings, which we obtain through bug reports submitted in the client. With a range of these, I can start looking for trends (e.g. everyone/most using a particular driver or chipset or OS or whatever) and then we can target our optimisation. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:18:04 - [64] - Quote Kaivaja wrote: I used to have several custom filters in the old map. When I tried the new map, I thought that the old filters are preventing the new default filters from showing up and from working. Today I tested deleting all the old custom filters, but that didn't help. See this screenshot: http://imgur.com/X7Mf0jX This problem makes probing with combat probes a nightmare in a system that has any POS'. Yup this is an unfortunate issue that we will be fixing. Sorry about that. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:19:13 - [65] - Quote Calima Arzi wrote: I am finding the new interface extremely hard to use. Each of my probes in space has a large area around it which if I click it will warp the camera there: "Probe 11", "Probe 13" etc. The problem is that from most angles, these circles overlap with the cube that I am trying to click on to move it around in space. I just keep clicking the probe circles. I don't want to be able to select the probes, at all. They're useless, and they keep getting in my way to the point where I am hating scanning. Also, I can no longer scan on the old map, at all. The blue sphere does not appear, the cube does not appear. Scanning on the old map is impossible. Please give me a way to make the probes non-selectable, and I'll be good. Until then I will loathe scanning. It has gone from a quick, simple, painless task to a ghastly, horrible, fiddly chore; a fight against a UI that I do not want to use. Please take my feedback into account, and give us back a pain-free scanning interface. Thank you. -- C You can achieve this by going into the Markers menu in the Solar System map and deselecting "Scanner Probe". You can still manipulate the probes in the usual way, just that the individual probes won't be selectable as you describe. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:20:02 - [66] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: 5pitf1re wrote: This has probably been reported before but the new windows don't seem to remember the last focused window choice. That means, when I have both the DScan and scanning windows stacked into the same window and I activate or switch to the DScan window it will automatically switch to the scanning window when I jump through a gate. This behavior is rather annoying since I have to get back to the DScan window every time. This has actually been an issue for a really long time, but many seem to be noticing it more with these changes. I've been pressuring to get some developer traction on a fix. I've not come across the 'bug' before, but it seems to be the default behaviour now. And I am not noticing it more, it didn't happen at all before. As a WHer, the last thing I do before I jump out of a wormhole and the first thing I do when I jump in to a wormhole is hit DScan. I have had DScan and Probing stacked for years and do not recall ever having to change back to DScan after jumping in. Same here. I was actually astounded to find that it was a legacy issue as I also do exactly what you describe above, and have never had it occur either. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:21:09 - [67] - Quote Arla Sarain wrote: New scanning mechanics don't show how many probes hit (double dot, circle, etc). This was really useful for those who could gather the right information from it. I've had double dots and circles in the new system, but perhaps not always when I should have, now that I consider it. Is this a widespread issue? Would love to get some more feedback on this. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2833	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:21:52 - [68] - Quote Petrified wrote: The new probing window is a step in the right direction, but it still needs a lot of work. The biggest issue with the new probing UI is that it is slow and sluggish. For lazy days probing, that would be ok, but overall, it is too slow to use efficiently. If you're having performance issues please submit a bug report from within the client via the F12 menu, so we can get your computer specs and your client settings and all that good stuff. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2852	Posted - 2015.11.06 09:26:35 - [69] - Quote Aurumfault Shiptoaster wrote: - Formation cube is too hard to select and drag. It feels like everything else has priority. - Bookmarks do not get removed when changing system. - Ring results relation to the actual location seems tenuous at best. - Why the recent obsession with removing colour from the UI? First the Neocom, now this. Put it back please. 1. Layering will be getting another pass 2. You mean while you're actively jumping, right? Once you hit the system they go away again? 3. What do you mean by "ring results"? Sorry, not a term I'm immediately familiar with. Feel free to use an imgur link or something to illustrate further. 4. We're taking a second pass at colors and lines, but not in this release. Almost certainly next one. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 13:42:34 - [70] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: CCP Goliath, While I intensely dislike the new scanning map (possibly largely because of some tooltips mumbo jumbo, or maybe just because I am an old dog who does not like learning new tricks), I have to say that I am intensely impressed with the amount of engagement with your userbase in this thread. With that said, I'm currently attempting to play Eve on a 17-inch laptop screen. Screen real estate is at a premium. Adding a completely separate window for the scanning interface might be nice if I was playing on a 30-inch screen, but it adds no new functionality for me. As an example of this, the new ability to better aim your d-scan tool seems great. But I literally have a 2x2 inch square of screen left available for me to move my ship to aim it. Between local, the d-scan screen, the overview, my HUD, my chat channel, etc. There just is not any space for me to use the new system effectively. So, thank you for your efforts. I'll be that curmudgeon who will continue to use the old map and the old scanning system as long as I can. Why don't you just fullscreen the Solar System map? That way it will pop behind the rest of your UI, much like the old solar system map, and not take up the screen real estate. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 13:44:16 - [71] - Quote Malice Redeemer wrote: Along with being harder to use because it is in a dropdown, I also can't tell just by looking if there are no anomalies in my system or I just happen to have forgot I had them filtered out. Not going to consider an option to remove the background stars? What about remapping the hotkeys for the default filters? 1. I don't really get the "harder to use" part? Would you expand on that please? 2. Gut instinct says that the only way we remove that is if we establish that it's causing major performance issues 3. I'll certainly ask, but I feel like these hotkeys were kinda special-cased CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 13:45:09 - [72] - Quote Arla Sarain wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Arla Sarain wrote: New scanning mechanics don't show how many probes hit (double dot, circle, etc). This was really useful for those who could gather the right information from it. I've had double dots and circles in the new system, but perhaps not always when I should have, now that I consider it. Is this a widespread issue? Would love to get some more feedback on this. Yeah, I did have one double dot (triple probe hit) pop up today. But most of the time I get a horizontal dotted ring that never used to happen. I do get FPS lag if I have too many BMs in the system which wouldn't happen with the old map. Out of interest, what is your "too many" number roughly? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 13:47:02 - [73] - Quote Rain Kaessinde wrote: Stan Khashour wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Aurumfault Shiptoaster wrote: - Formation cube is too hard to select and drag. It feels like everything else has priority. - Bookmarks do not get removed when changing system. - Ring results relation to the actual location seems tenuous at best. - Why the recent obsession with removing colour from the UI? First the Neocom, now this. Put it back please. 1. Layering will be getting another pass 2. You mean while you're actively jumping, right? Once you hit the system they go away again? 3. What do you mean by "ring results"? Sorry, not a term I'm immediately familiar with. Feel free to use an imgur link or something to illustrate further. 4. We're taking a second pass at colors and lines, but not in this release. Almost certainly next one. 3. probly circle from only 2 probes picking up a signature which is pretty far off especially compared to the old circle Side by side of old circle vs new circle signature is the bookmark in both Top View Side View This is a great illustration of the problem. In the classic map, a ring/circle/two-probe result gives you information that you can use (if you're clever) to reposition your probes almost as effectively as for a point result. The new map appears to always draw a circle in the horizontal plane, with no relationship to the actual signature location or to the probes which produced the hit. Unrelated, the new map in fullscreen mode used to draw its control bar over other windows, which was convenient as I normally have stuff docked across the top edge of the screen. Now the control bar draws under everything else, so I would have to leave that edge clear if I wanted to use the fullscreen map. An "always on top" toggle would help, but best would be the ability to drag it around to any position on any edge instead of having it stuck at center-top. OK I get the ring results thing now. Yeah, I've also noted that this is behaving oddly, will do some investimagating. The controls being inaccessible with a lot of UI setups in fullscreen mode is on my list of things to tackle. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 13:48:48 - [74] - Quote Raphendyr Nardieu wrote: Sorry for skipping 11 pages without reading (only this time, I nearly promise)... Any case. Only reason I open one line from probes is to see expiration time and probe radius, so could we show summary on the probes header line? Mockups: http://imgur.com/a/8vLXG That's a pretty cool idea. Thanks for taking the effort to make mockups! I'll forward it to Colgate. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:02:16 - [75] - Quote Johnny Cyclops wrote: any chance we could have drag and drop BM (for celestials, anomalies and 100% scanned sigs) from the map to people and places at some point? i keep catching myself trying to do it on my screen setup Cool idea but very out of scope for our team at this time unfortunately. I'll log it in our wiki page though! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:05:38 - [76] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: [quote=Sven Viko VIkolander] Thanks for the detailed feedback 1. We will not be backporting any functionality to the old map, but the point about icons is a good one. I'll raise it with CCP Colgate tomorrow and see if we can do something here. 2. If you are having performance issues with the map, please do submit a bug report so we can get your computer specs and settings. That's the best way for us to plan optimisations. Don't worry though, this is not "final form" 3&4. These should be fixed in the update going out tomorrow, to the best of my knowledge. We didn't change the font, but made the background match the scheme you've chosen, so readability should be markedly improved. 5. Try adjusting your Tooltip Delay a tiny bit in the General Settings menu. This help me immensely in this regard. Also make sure you are using Markers to remove things you don't need to care about (e.g. Probes, Belts, etc.). It is something we're monitoring though. 1. Refusal to backport any new features is a worrying trend, because of the history of failed revisions of systems in EVE. The old map and old scanning systems are still far better and more functional than anything the new features offer. 2. I have submitted bug reports but honestly the lag is extremely widespread and easy to catch. Look, someone even posted a youtube video of it for you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjKsNTCy4aY&feature=youtu.be You don't get anywhere near that amount of lag with the old map. 1. We have a set amount of time that we can spend on this. We'd rather spend it entirely on making the new feature, which will inevitably replace the old, as good as it can possibly be, than trying to develop and support two systems in tandem. Sorry, just the way it is. 2. Easy to catch is a mislead. If everyone had performance problems with the new system, this thread would be awash, and I wouldn't have time to post here because I'd be processing bug reports all day. I get that it's very obvious when it occurs, but please believe me when I say that I haven't experienced it myself, nor is it realistic for me to conduct performance tests on the staggering array of hardware that a widespread userbase will utilise. It's not seeing the issue that I especially need, it's the computer specs and client settings, which we obtain through bug reports submitted in the client. With a range of these, I can start looking for trends (e.g. everyone/most using a particular driver or chipset or OS or whatever) and then we can target our optimisation. Sincerely hope you get enough time to fix all the problems, before you remove the existing solution ... Regarding performance, I'm not sure how many professional scanners populate New Eden, and how many of them bother with beta testing (others may just opt-out), so the scan interface problems do not affect the majority of players I presume, unlike the new icons for example. I give you an easy task to test, take your favorite combat scan ship, jump in a mission runner system like Vylade on TQ, and then scan down all the MTUs and depots in said system. Compare efficiency to the existing interface ... I-¦ve done testing like that in this interface. Issues with filtering at the moment are going to make that less efficient, but we are aware of that and will fix the bugs causing the problem. Performance-wise, I'm just dealing with case-by-case reports trying to put together trends. Nothing obvious leaping out at me at this time. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:08:39 - [77] - Quote Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote: I love the new changes in general, but there's a few issues that needs looking at before it can be fully released: HUD overlap the map controls with the map in fullscreen and HUD aligned up. The probe icons (and celestials in general) block big parts of the probe controls. The resizing bubbles has less margin for error, making it very easy to miss. There doesn't seem to be a way to filter out Cosmic Anomalies from the results. The Use Active Overview checkbox seem to be removed from the direction scanner. The D-scan cone on the map is not accurate depending on zoom. It'd also be nice to be able to filter anomalies (only show FW complexes, besiged sites, combat anomalies, etc). Keep up the great work! 1. Known issue, will fix 2. Known issue, will take another layering pass, but we encourage you to use the markers menu also! 3. By Design. We put picking back in because many said they wanted it, but we also had to cater to the large amount of users who complained that they were accidentally picking the probes. To mitigate issues, we added in Alt-Mousewheel to resize probes, and mappable probe resize shortcuts. 4. Press 1 when the probe scanner window is active, or deselect Anomalies from the Filter list 5. Known issue, will fix. 6. Unlikely to get fixed to the most minute level of detail, but we're keeping an eye on it. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:11:32 - [78] - Quote Casey Ambraelle wrote: Spent some more time with the new interface and noticed a few more things: The probe cube doesn't scale with zooming in or out. On the old map as you zoomed in or out it would get smaller or bigger it no longer does this. At one point my "you are here" marker was stuck to the sun and didn't move with me as I warped around wasn't able to reproduce it. If you have the D-Scan set to "align with camera" you can't use the RMB to move your point of view around the map it always snaps back to your location The old map has settings to show pins and/or show tool tips for stuff so you could have it set to show gate markers but not gate tool tips. There are no options for this anymore with the current markers its show markers and tool tips or nothing at all. 1. It scales with window size instead, but we are actually going to make some changes to it, not sure what yet. 2. Yeah this has also happened to me once, with no repro. If we pin it down we'll fix it. 3. By Design. It's to do with a camera paradigm that we cannot rewrite at this time. 4. This is a good point. Will raise it with the team. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:14:49 - [79] - Quote Malice Redeemer wrote: The new scan window seems to be causing my overview to lock up today, will keep trying see if I can narrow it down. Edit: not sure what is causing it, hadn't had it happen without the scan window up till just a bit ago though. Im now playing with the new scanning options disabled and haven't had it lock up yet, still testing. =/ Would love to also hear what you think about my previous feedback, 1) Option to remap new default filter hotkeys 2) Checkboxes for new default filters, Anoms and structures would be the most use, I believe. 3) the hotkeys should NOT function when I'm typing into a chatbox or textbox, no matter where my mouse is, like every other hotkey works now. 3) Removing the word Cosmic from sigs and anoms. 4) Option to disabling the star background. Oh, sorry if I missed your post earlier - lots of posts! 1. Probably not possible due to them being special cases, but I'll ask. 2. No room in the UI for checkboxes for these filters, the hotkeys and dropdown will be the way forward here I believe. 3. Because they're specialcased, we needed to change some expected behaviour, mouseover is one of those changes. 3.2. Not really something we'd want to do in our team, that-¦s more a game design decision and we are a UI/UX team 4. Not off the table yet, but will probably only happen if the star background is found to be causing performance issues. Our of interest, where does the desire come from? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:15:29 - [80] - Quote Aurumfault Shiptoaster wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Aurumfault Shiptoaster wrote: - Formation cube is too hard to select and drag. It feels like everything else has priority. - Bookmarks do not get removed when changing system. - Ring results relation to the actual location seems tenuous at best. - Why the recent obsession with removing colour from the UI? First the Neocom, now this. Put it back please. 1. Layering will be getting another pass 2. You mean while you're actively jumping, right? Once you hit the system they go away again? 3. What do you mean by "ring results"? Sorry, not a term I'm immediately familiar with. Feel free to use an imgur link or something to illustrate further. 4. We're taking a second pass at colors and lines, but not in this release. Almost certainly next one. 1. Sweet. 2. No, they persist until the solar system map is closed. Only affects bookmarks created while that instance of the map is open, pre-existing bookmarks go away as expected. 3. As Stan Khashour's screenshots show. 4. Not so much the lines, but the icons and buttons - analyze was blue, destroy had blue and red, etc. Now everything is grey, just like the Neocom icons :/ 2. This is so weird - I can't reproduce this at all. Are others experiencing this behaviour? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:21:14 - [81] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: Scanning issues I have come across: 1. The SCAN button is on the wrong side and so is the km/AU button. You move left to right as you type, so make the interface use this logic. Select AU/Km, choose range hit DScan. (same flawed logic for Probe scan too, but not as obvious as you don't enter distances with the keyboard) At the moment it is: Right hand side: Choose AU/KM Move to left: Enter distance, finish at right Move back to left: Hit DScan (I know there are hotkeys, but I am already using the mouse on the DScan window) This is very unintuitive (and implies you don't have any UX guys on the team. Get some) I'll show your points to the team, but to be honest I think that if it was as unintuitive as you describe, we would have seen more than a few posts about it. Totally not off the table though, and thanks for taking the time to build the user path. Do you often change between KM and AU mid-scan? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:24:08 - [82] - Quote Staten Island wrote: I think it is important to remember where we started with scanning. Once upon a time scanning was a skilled profession in eve. You could make decent bank with exploration and a scanner was always welcome in a fleet. Then ccp made scanning stupidly easy. Exploration became a newbee profession instead of a skilled profession. Everybody and their mother could now scan easily. As a result the exploration market crashed. Data sites are not worth doing and relic sites are only worth doing if you really really like exploration or having nothing better to do isk wise. More problematic, scanning became so easy that an fc could do it on the fly while he was doing everything else in managing his fleet. Thus sniper fleets and other doctrines were severely hurt. Now although the implementation of the new scanning is currently terrible for a whole variety of reasons, the problems are more fundamental and come from the failure of ccp to think through the proposed changes to the end assuming they are successfully implemented. The very idea of making scanning even easier and more convenient is just wrong headed. All it can lead to is ccp ultimately feeling compelled to refix scanning by implementing gimpy changes such as the proposed nerf to fleet warp or the changes to combat scanning which involve getting an intermediate result first. I don't really see how we've made scanning mechanically easier in this new system. I believe we have made it more pleasant (subjective, I know) but we haven't changed any of the fundamentals. If you feel like sharing your "whole variety of reasons" why the new scanning interface doesn't meet your standards, I would be happy to read them. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:24:52 - [83] - Quote Vegare wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Arla Sarain wrote: New scanning mechanics don't show how many probes hit (double dot, circle, etc). This was really useful for those who could gather the right information from it. I've had double dots and circles in the new system, but perhaps not always when I should have, now that I consider it. Is this a widespread issue? Would love to get some more feedback on this. I'm afraid I had some weird results when probing yesterday, too. For example: Once I received a circle as a result which should have been a single point result. The circle was far too small to be the intersection of two of the spheres, and it was covered by four or more of them. Edit: after some more reading: seems to be exactly the thing others are reporting as well On a different note: I noticed that the tooltips that used to come up when pointing over a scan result in the probe scanner window seem to be missing. They are rather important, as the columns are usually to narrow to display the whole name of a signature. Thanks again for taking all of our feedback so seriously. RE: Tooltips, that's a known bug and we'll fix it. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:26:12 - [84] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: You can achieve this by going into the Markers menu in the Solar System map and deselecting "Scanner Probe". You can still manipulate the probes in the usual way, just that the individual probes won't be selectable as you describe. When you do this, the option to move the probes disappears then next time you login, so you have to re-enable probes and disable them or hit the alt key to get the Cube and Arrows back. It's a probe scanner window, the one thing that should 'always' be visible is the Cube and Arrows. That's actually a separate bug and one we will be fixing. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:27:37 - [85] - Quote Ghost Cultist wrote: Tried that, no good. I feel like you're trying to use the F10 map or the Beta map. Neither of these will work with the new scanning features. Use the Solar System map - F9 or button in Dscan/Probe window. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:30:27 - [86] - Quote Hazzard wrote: The main problem for me is it seems half the time I try to grab the box to move my probes I end up clicking on a probe and get a tooltip instead. Is there a way to make the box always on the top of the Z order so that i can't accidentally click on a single probe? (not sure why I would ever want to currently.) Would also love it if there was a button you had to press and hold to make the up/down arrows on the box appear. Would stop people from accidentally click the up button when dragging. While we will be taking another pass at layering, we also encourage you to use the markers menu to customise what appears in your solar system map. In the above usecase, I suggest unchecking "Scanner Probe" (you can still work with the probes as normal). We actually had exactly what you describe in the first implementation of the feature, but people really hated being forced to use keybindings, so we reverted. The keybinding still exist though (Ctrl, Alt, Shift) and you should use them if you're so inclined. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2859	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:34:59 - [87] - Quote Epigene wrote: Ok, so I didn't read the entire 12 pages. My 2 pet peeves are: During probing: a) My ship is always in the center. In very large systems, I can not adjust the probes since I can not zoom in on them and see where they are in relation to the identified sig. It may be a setting (like the "c" key) but I have not found it. Help please b) The arrows overlap to much, grabbing them to pull them appears to effect randomly to resize, click on something below or move the single bubble out of formation. Very fiddly, very annoying c) the color scheme needs an overhaul. The red D-scan bubble is nice but distracting, being the same color as the rest of the signatures. Can we make it white or something. The icons are too small and too faint, I need to squint to see where they are. d) The entire "undocked" window is a neat idea, in my case it doesnt work very well. In order to see anything, I need the entire real estate of my reasonably large PC monitor. Bottom line, I'd really like to like the new feature, I'd really like to use it but it is inferior in nearly every respect to the old system and I shall find a way to revert back. Thank you! a - You need to deselect "Align to Camera" for the Directional Scanner (3rd button on the left of the Solar System map). Then you'll be able to zoom in and center on whatever you like. b - Could you show me a screenshot? I feel like you're using a key modifier or something to display all your probe controls rather than just manipulating the one central box. c - Colors getting a second pass, likely in next release d - Fullscreen the window and that should solve your real estate issue Thanks for the feedback! To revert back, just hit up the ESC menu and go to General Settings. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:47:27 - [88] - Quote Soltys wrote: Ok, after playing a bit more over weekend with the new interface, revised list of mine - some stuff obviously overlapping with other people's remarks, and some sounding like a broken record =) 2 probe result - circle: as others already mentioned it sometimes feels bugged; I did have both clearly correct results (with circle oriented properly) as well as rather suspicious circle perfectly horizontal to the EvE's plane. filtering on the new map is non-functional w.r.t. just signatures: for example, I cannot set a filter that would show wormholes only, as all probed signatures are always being shown no matter what. order of what gets priority over what: well "you can turn off this and that" sure is some sort of workaround, but turning off too many elements is an overkill - especially if DScan cone is to be of any real use. If it's possible - probe controls should have absolute priority, though that might be tough to implement properly and even then remain glitchy. So a simpler alternative - in fashion similar to checkboxes responsible for displaying stuff on the probe map - add identical list of checkboxes responsible for interacting. This way we can have some/all celestials/etc. visible - but otherwise immune to selection, unwinding, etc. This I think should please everyone and be much easier to imlpement. bubble grabbing needs to be disableable: seriously, it gets in a way of any left-click action (rotating especially) so much; it felt excellent when it was disabled on the test server - now it's back again. So what was even the point of adding alt+cone method ? Please add a checkbox to disable it and another one to disable alt+cone dragging. This way everyone will be happy. Just a matter of 2 checkboxes after all. TBH, after I got used to alt/ctrl+mousewheel - both alternatives are just in the way =) alt/ctrl/shift are system-wide: EvE whether in background or not, its new (old one doesn't) probe map will react dilligently to those keypresses flashing with cones, arrows and cubes (this is broken record part). alt/ctrl/shift are EvE-wide: whether the new (or old solar beta) map has focus or not, it will react dilligently to those keypresses flashing with cones, arrows and cubes. It's hell distracting, as those modifiers are used a lot. allow docking/'always on top' of the probe scanner with reference to the floating probe map window': this is primarily to save a bit of screen space - when the probe map is in floating mode, there is currently no way to keep probe scanner on top of it all new maps when docked shift the ship/hud (implicitly ignoring Ship View Camera Settings); In single monitor setup it's perhaps desirable, but in dual (and higher) monitor setups it's terrible (read: unusable) - especially when the ship is set to be in the middle of left or right monitor. For example if I have the right monitor dedicated to lesser stuff (map, browser with tripwire, local, etc.) and the left to actual action - I do not want docked map to mess up where I put the ship/hud on the left monitor. The suggestion is to add checkbox in game settings under display such as "docked windows don't shrink in-space/hud area". perhaps consider swapping clrl and alt functions: this way ctrl takes new functionality and alt retains its current many months old one; personally idc (actually, I already got used to current setup) but some people will complain about changing defaults (old alt vs. new alt) 1. Yeah reckon there's a bug here. 2. There's a bug here too. Basically the filters won't work until you've identified the Group of the signature (and then still sometimes not work...). Will fix! 3. Layering is getting another pass, but using the Markers menu is not a workaround, it's part of the feature. The system you describe wouldn't be as easy to implement as you might think. 4. Too many people got mad when we took it out. Sorry, but we at least made it need to be more precise to happen. 5. Not sure if there's much we can do about that tbh, but I'll ask. 6. The old system does this too, so while it might get fixed it won't be a priority. 7. Like it used to be when we first pushed out the feature to Sisi? Again, too many people got mad when we did it so we had to revert. 8. That's just the way docking works for now unfortunately. It might get rewritten in future but that sounds like a fundamental change and those usually take time. 9. Probably too late in the day to make that change now, but we'll be keeping an open mind on it. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 14:50:28 - [89] - Quote helana Tsero wrote: To be honest if this was a legacy issue their is no way it was being triggered before the new changes. I scan every day and never had the loss of the focused window issue before. Its very annoying. I usually have probe and dscan windows stacked and the Dscan as my selected(focused) window. Now each time I jump a wormhole the window focus switches to the probe scan window and I have to manually click back on the dscan window again. Dscan is critical for wormholers, so please fix this asap. Edit. Another bug I just noticed. The You are Here icon gets stuck and does not update with your current postion after jumping x number of wormholes. You got a repro of an issue I have been trying to track down for some time. What's your X? I've done 20 jumps and can't repro. The legacy issue I was equally surprised at as I had never experienced it myself either. I am aware of how critical D-scan is, as I too am a wormholer. I share your frustration, and have unstacked my D-scan and Probe windows until the issue is resolved. As an aside, now that I'm used to that, I actually don't think I'll go back, as I like having both intel sources immediately visible. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:07:28 - [90] - Quote Torgeir Hekard wrote: Focus current location button gets stuck after the first time using it. Can't switch it back, and each time I try to focus on some other thing or freemove the camera, it immediately snaps back to the current location. Also dscan desperately needs the old "disable filters" checkbox for quick scans. Just to double check - when you experience the issues in your first paragraph, do you also have "Align camera to Directional scanner" active? If so, uncheck the box and the issues should be sorted. D-scan checkbox is something we're aware of. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:13:55 - [91] - Quote Alice Ng wrote: I found you could turn the old one back which is good as I find the new one incredibly slow and unusable. I've tried to give it a good go but in the end I've just switched back to the old system. The issues I have are: 1/ Grabbing the box to move the probes. The probe itself seems to be in the center meaning you have to click the box slightly on the edge to get it. Very frustrating. 2/ Edge of the probes seem harder to grab to reduce the size. 3/ Make the bars back to solid please. 4/ Sigs no longer highlight when they are inside a probes area. 5/ Sigs seem hard to see. 6/ I spent at least 5mins trying to scan what turned out to be the DScan bubble. I suck. But very confusing. 7/ Not sure the cones are needed when moving. It took me 15 mins to scan out 10 sigs in a worm hole I got so frustrated I was almost about to give up when a corp member told me I could switch back to the old system. Within 5 mins I'd done the other 15 sigs. Please don't take the old systme out just yet. 1. You can use the Markers menu to deselect Scanner Probes (and anything else you like) to reduce the clutter of stuff in the map that you might not care about. 2. That's true, and by design. We made it like this to try and satisfy the people who kept resizing by mistake, while not removing the ability to resize that way entirely. We also introduced Alt-Mousewheel and mappable hotkeys (Shortcuts > Combat) as shortcuts to resize probes 3. Colors and lines are getting a second pass, most likely in the next release 4. Known issue Will be fixed. 5. Known issue. Will be fixed. 6. This should get covered in the color/line pass 7. Some use them and they don't do any specific harm in being there so we will leave them. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:28:41 - [92] - Quote Calavoow2 wrote: Hi, I'm in love with the new hotkeys for scanning, saves me a lot of mousing! I also agree with all of the improvements you have posted in the opening statements (especially highlighting of sigs when probes are over them). I live in wormhole space, and have some comments on the probe scanning UI: When the probe scanning box is close to something that I have not hidden on the map such as planets (because I want to see them), then it often happens that I drag the label of the planet / the planet itself instead of the probes. I'm unsure when, if ever, you would want to drag a planet on the map. Is it possible to make the make the new map pinnable? So that I do not drag it accidentally, as that has happened to me a few times. Is there a shortcut for opening the new map? F10 still opens the old map. When alt-tabbing, the probe box (to drag probes with) sometimes disappears until I press Shift. Is it possible to toggle certain filters without clicking on the Filtered tab in the Probe Scanner? Sometimes I would like to enable/disable anoms by just pressing '1' and not using the mouse. (Minor) Why are the probes not sorted alphabetically? And why does the ID of the probes not always start at 1? Furthermore, for the D-Scan UI: Why is it no longer possible to toggle your active overview on the d-scan? I used this often when I wanted to get an unfiltered overview, because unfortunately my d-scan overview is about 30 overviews settings down from the 'All' preset, since I use an overview pack. (minor) Add some better feedback when the d-scan is active, it currently has a very mild animation so I tend to spam the d-scan hotkey just to be sure. Something like a button-press would be great. I am able to type '999' AU in the distance and press enter to activate the scan, without getting an error. The error only happens after clicking. 1. Dragging in this context is a byproduct of being selectable at all. Layering is getting another pass though. 2. I do not believe so but at the same time do not know why. I will ask. 3. F9, same as opening the old solar system map 4. Known issue, will be fixed, you have established the correct workaround though :) 5. Yes, you can already do exactly what you described with anoms actually, and the other preset filters. Just use 1-5 while the Probe Scanner window is active. 6. I am not actually sure Dscan 1. Known issue, will be fixed. 2. That animation is basically as good as it's going to get in this release. 3. Interesting. Will check this out. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:29:27 - [93] - Quote Rob Kashuken wrote: Whilst most of my concerns appear from the dev posts are being looked at, I do have one question that I may have missed: In the scanning probe area, there's an icon to destroy probes immediately under the icon for the system map. Why on earth does this exist? Surely the default would be to recover probes... does anyone ever routinely need to destroy their probes out in space? I-¦ve been trying to find an answer for this for 4 days. The best I have is "if my cargo is totally full and I need to get probes off scan", which is the edgiest of the edge cases. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:30:22 - [94] - Quote Marris Rogers wrote: I have noticed on the scan map, that when initially launching the probes you can not move them. If you hit your Ctrl Key once, it brings back the move functionally. Yup this is a bug and we will be fixing it. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:34:12 - [95] - Quote Tinukeda'ya Naskingar wrote: Ok... so after some more testing I have few things to say (some of which were said already, but I'll mention it anyway). 1) I do not like the SSM look for only one reason. The displaying of BMs and their stacking. Get rid of the "paddle" and do not let them stack (or drastically reduce the range at which they do so). If you are worried abut their visibility just darken the background. But I do not think that will be an issue. This is something that should be just transferred from the old map (basically I'd like to see the old map look with the proper sun in the middle) 2) "Align with Camera" and "Show Scan Cone" toggles need to be directly accessible not hidden under very lazily reacting menu. 3) I like the alt+mousewheel to change probe range, but can we have it without the alt? Zooming in map can already be done by pressing both left+right mouse buttons, so scratch the alt. (I can understand some people would be against that, so just make that an option) 4) Make the SSM window pinnable and to remember it's open/close state... I have enough real estate on my setup to have the map open all the time. I'd like to pin it (so it goes transparent when the window is not active) and not to open it every time I log in. 5) I also like the previously mentioned idea that will show the amount of launched probes and remaining time on the collapsed probe section title. Overall I feel optimistic about the new map scanning interface which is for the first time since this whole new map introduction. 1. I understand that there will be people who just cannot get behind the new map aesthetically. I don't particularly understand your particular issue with the stacking though - what is it that you don't like? 2. Yeah I agree, we'll be discussing options in the team. The menu reaction is based on your tooltip sensitivity setting, FYI 3. No, sorry, too many special cases 4. I'll ask about pinnability, but I'm not sure if it's an option. Remembering state is something that should work though, and we'll fix issues with it. 5. Yeah I liked that one too :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:34:59 - [96] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: 2. That's true, and by design. We made it like this to try and satisfy the people who kept resizing by mistake, while not removing the ability to resize that way entirely. We also introduced Alt-Mousewheel and mappable hotkeys (Shortcuts > Combat) as shortcuts to resize probes. May you consider doing a survey about that point to get a valid base for a decision? As said before it's very frustrating to see something taking a lot more effort or using modifier keys which was working flawlessly before... The initial decision was metrics based - why would we re-reun something we already have results for? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2860	Posted - 2015.11.09 15:36:48 - [97] - Quote Vic Vorlon wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Torgeir Hekard wrote: Focus current location button gets stuck after the first time using it. Can't switch it back, and each time I try to focus on some other thing or freemove the camera, it immediately snaps back to the current location. Also dscan desperately needs the old "disable filters" checkbox for quick scans. Just to double check - when you experience the issues in your first paragraph, do you also have "Align camera to Directional scanner" active? If so, uncheck the box and the issues should be sorted. D-scan checkbox is something we're aware of. Hi Goliath, I like the new probing system but I got confused by this too. Would it be possible to detect that the player is trying to change focus, or pan, when the "align camera" option is on, and show a brief error message? One of the timed messages like the "you cannot do that while in warp". It's not obvious that the "align camera" option would lock the focus to your ship, so a message letting you know that you can't change it would be helpful. Something like "You cannot change focus while the "Align Camera to Directional Scanner" option is selected." One final question: when I learned probing a couple of years ago with the old system it tooks ages to notice that you could double-click a signature to center your "spin" around it. Without knowing that, checking that my probes were centered correctly was really difficult. Could you add a small button (optionally, perhaps) to each signature, or at least a right-click "Center rotation" menu command, so the player knows the option exists. Without an affordance like that, you're assuming the player will stumble on it themselves. Double-clicks should, where possible, not be the ONLY way to do something. Thank you for your work on this feature, I really like it! A general question: how do I launch probes in a way that the formation will center on my ship instead of on the star? I think we could definitely afford to take a second pass at this. It's likely that moving the button out of its menu will help in this regard, but we'll see and then maybe do more. I like your solution though :) Do you mean in the Probe Scanner menu, or in the map itself? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 09:39:48 - [98] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: CCP Goliath, While I intensely dislike the new scanning map (possibly largely because of some tooltips mumbo jumbo, or maybe just because I am an old dog who does not like learning new tricks), I have to say that I am intensely impressed with the amount of engagement with your userbase in this thread. With that said, I'm currently attempting to play Eve on a 17-inch laptop screen. Screen real estate is at a premium. Adding a completely separate window for the scanning interface might be nice if I was playing on a 30-inch screen, but it adds no new functionality for me. As an example of this, the new ability to better aim your d-scan tool seems great. But I literally have a 2x2 inch square of screen left available for me to move my ship to aim it. Between local, the d-scan screen, the overview, my HUD, my chat channel, etc. There just is not any space for me to use the new system effectively. So, thank you for your efforts. I'll be that curmudgeon who will continue to use the old map and the old scanning system as long as I can. Why don't you just fullscreen the Solar System map? That way it will pop behind the rest of your UI, much like the old solar system map, and not take up the screen real estate. What does that gain me versus using the old map? Also, how do you do that? You changed the system, apparently adding new capabilities, but I have not seen any guide or documentation as to how to unlock and use all these new capabilities. All this stuff about hot keys and etc, but absolutely no guide as to how to use it. The old system was relatively intuitive. It came optimized. The new system seems like it could work better with a bunch of adjusting, but I just don't have a reason to go through that pain. Especially not on six different accounts. Well, apart from the devblog, and the extensive posting I've done to show people how to effectively use the system, we also have a Flight Academy video coming out, showing how to work with feature end-to-end. To fullscreen the window, you use either the window docking options (top right, beside X) or just double click on the header bar as you would with a window in Windows. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 09:41:34 - [99] - Quote Rain Kaessinde wrote: Good to hear that the fullscreen toolbar and the two-probe circle problem are being looked at. ^^ On the topic of partial scan results, could split (two-dot/three-probe) signals maybe get some distinction in the map view? Currently, looking at a cloud of red dots, you can't visually tell which are singular and which go together. A unique marker style for split signals (perhaps open circles connected by dashed lines?) would convey this information at a glance. Interesting idea, but out of scope for the team I think in this pass. Will note it down though! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 09:49:52 - [100] - Quote Terranid Meester wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: I-¦ve been trying to find an answer for this for 4 days. The best I have is "if my cargo is totally full and I need to get probes off scan", which is the edgiest of the edge cases. I have a better answer, warp disrupt probes need to be destroyed sometimes so new ones can be launched. Not all probes are scanning ones. Dictor probes? They don't appear in the probe menu, and aren't destroyable with that button though? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 09:53:21 - [101] - Quote Tatsuj Khan wrote: I just spent a several minutes with the new scanning window and probe/sig panel. Right away I was dismayed: 1. I couldn't see my blue probe bubbles in the classic solar system window. Where are they?! 2. The highly useful and convenient 'see anomalies' check box on the classic probe/sig panel was missing in the new panel. It can now be accessed by clicking on a pull-down list and selecting it. The Extra steps is NOT good. Please bring it to the front for one click convenience and ease of use. Other than the main probe buttons, the anomaly check-box is most used for quick intel on a system. 1. The new system is not compatible with the old system. This is by design. 2. You can also just press "1" to auto hide/show anomalies CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 09:58:27 - [102] - Quote Aivlis Eldelbar wrote: While messing with different control schemes for the new probing system I ran across something that may or may not be relevant to this discussion: EVE doesn't recognize lateral movements on the mouse wheel and/or secondary horizontal wheel. I tried mapping mine to the probe range, but found I can't without macroing, even though I'm not assigning any key combos or trying to toe around the EULA, ie: if I map ALT + [ horizontal move of the wheel ] to some unused keyboard key and use that to change probe range everything is fine, but I can't map the wheel itself in the menu. I realize this is an edge case, but I'd love to hear CCP Goliath's take on it, seeing he's being so nice to us probers lately. Unfortunately for you I do my forum reading in the morning, and I haven't had my coffee so please bear with me :) Do you mean you're trying to map mousewheeling to resize the probes? As in, I mousewheel up, and probes resize, just like Alt but without the Alt? I don't think that's something our team could easily fix in the time we have, sorry CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:00:00 - [103] - Quote Lei Volund wrote: ok so ive gotten used to new scanner, and use it a lot, quite like it now the directional has a toggle, just a couple of niggles 1. The aim was to move the 'destroy probes' button away so it wont be pressed by accident, but you have moved it next to the most used buton, the system map. can this change? 2. On system map zooming out with the mouse wheel is up, yet zooming out with probes when alt is held down is mouse wheel down, feels disjointed. 3. if a new sig pops up while scanning all progress is lost and it goes back a step for some reason, hard to replicate, only happend once to me 1. We're really tempted to just take it out altogether. 2. Yeah it's a bit weird. Need to sync up with the team to see if we're doing anything about it 3. What do you mean "goes back a step"? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:00:37 - [104] - Quote Ragori Mitternacht wrote: I love the directional scanner it makes things easier to spot. but I am having problems with the probe scanner. I can resize the bubbles but I can't move them to where I need them to be. I followed the directions others have given me in game and nothign changes. How do I move the probes in the new interface? Do you mean the box isn't appearing at all? Even when you press Shift or Alt? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:02:07 - [105] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Another thing that I find a disimprovement is the removal of the split kilometer/AU distance meter in the dscan window. With the old system, it was easy to see at a glance the km and AU to compare them or change km or AU manually immediately, now you need to press a button to have the same functionality or to switch between the measure units to manipulate them. That's unacceptable. What are your use cases here? In what ways do you use KM/AU comparison as to make this system unworkable? Genuinely interested. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:05:34 - [106] - Quote Obil Que wrote: Goliath, not sure if this was reported yet but there seems to be a disconnect between the dscan angle when turning on and off camera align Test: 1. Have map open. Turn camera align off (for example, to scan probes and pan window) 2. Close map. Open map 3. Turn on camera align 4. Set dscan to 5% and scan a planet with known tower with overview set to show towers and force fields Here, quiet often, I do not get a hit 5. Close map 6. Open map 7. Repeat dscan to 5% at same planet Now I do It isn't 100% repeatable with the above steps but I can pretty consistently get it so that I'm dscanning a planet at 5% or 15% and getting no results. Close map, reopen, and then I get a hit on the same target. How are you scanning the planet (and do you mean moon? Getting a tower with a 5% planet scan sounds like an imprecise science) - are you using the radial menu to line up or are you manually positioning the camera? Do you have camera bobbing on perchance? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:08:40 - [107] - Quote Johnny Splunk wrote: Finally got caught up with the thread. May I suggest a digest of current recognized issues and their status. It's difficult to read through each post and there are a lot of repeated reports now. Here are some items I don't think have been reported yet. Marker Priority When using the old interface something interesting happens that I never noticed prior to the new interface. When I launch my probes all of the markers on the system map dim. This is a subtle feature that shows priority to the task at hand. I'm not saying we need to replicate this, but it's clearly showing that the previous devs understood that some things (markers, etc) should not have priority. Waypoint Highlighting When traveling with a destination set, I would like to see the destination/waypoint highlighted. The old interface clearly displayed this. I often find myself traveling with the system map open. I would like to quickly identify my route. 3 Probe Results harder to pinpoint As previous mentioned, the 3 probe results previously showed two results. I could quickly identify the correct result because it was always the result furthest from the center of my probes. Having some sort of circle slows down reaching a pinpoint. Scanning Inaccuracies Most items mentions in this thread are mechanical bugs or parity issues with the old interface. This one is much more serious. It turns out that results from the new interface are not always accurate. The results present an area where the final result should be, but the final result is not. I've personally witnessed this and adds additional scanning time and frustrations. Please watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02GPDienbk 1. We're taking another pass at layering 2. I feel like you're talking about the Beta map rather than the Probe/Directional/Solar System map, is that right? If so, right now we are only focusing on the latter. 3. 2-dots are still a thing in the new system. Not 100% sure what you mean. The circle and the 2-dots are different and both occur in the new system (though there might be an issue with the circle) 4. I'll check out the video later when I get some time. Thanks. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:10:14 - [108] - Quote Pandora Bokks wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Pandora Bokks wrote: Getting used to the new system will take a while but in general, I think it will be better over time. I have a question though: Have you touched scanning mechanics (the math behind it) somehow? I have the strong feeling that it is harder to get results after patch (max skills / full mid-grade virtue clone / rss probes). Funny thing is that it seems especially to be true for the easy sigs that I was able to get an instant hit with 4 AU diameter before. To add - I would be extremely happy if you made/make probing harder, so this is by no way a complaint. We haven't touched it at all, but with Brain in a Box it is totally possible that there is something going on with scanning skills, implants, ship hull bonuses, modules and/or charges. My advice is to submit a bug report detailing your observations and the implants, hull, modules, probes, etc. and I'll add it to my aggregating defect. Thank you for the answer - I will have to do more probing before I would file a petition. Something different: Can you consider to change the colouring so that only warpable results are green. This would make the colouring more useful. Please file a Bug Report rather than a petition (Support ticket) for issues of this nature. We're looking at coloring for the next release. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:10:51 - [109] - Quote Alyla By wrote: I really like the new scanning window. Good job CCP ! There is one little thing bother me still. Back on the old window, you could see easily if the signatures you wanted to probe where in your probe volume or not. Simply said, the red dot was more red when in the probe range and less red outside. It seems that on the new map all signatures are always to the "less red" version. Would it be possible to get this color difference aswell ? Yup we're doing that. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2865	Posted - 2015.11.16 10:12:01 - [110] - Quote So, sorry for the lengthy absence from the thread, folks. I was down with flu last week. Up to date now - please don't be upset if your post didn't get a direct answer, I can't spend as much time answering all the posts as I did before now that I'm playing catch-up, but be assured I read it! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.17 09:58:19 - [111] - Quote Johnny Splunk wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: 2. I feel like you're talking about the Beta map rather than the Probe/Directional/Solar System map, is that right? If so, right now we are only focusing on the latter. I'm talking about the system map. Example: 1. Set a destination 2. Open Probe/Directional/Solar System map 3. The waypoint (gate or station) should be clearly highlighted The old system map had this. The use case is traveling while having this map open makes it easy to identify your next warp and the nearby celestials. Pilots looking to increase travel safely use a technique of warping to a nearby celestial to d-scan gates in range. Ha, nice! Thanks very much for clearing that up - will raise a defect on it. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.17 11:01:56 - [112] - Quote Soltys wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: So, sorry for the lengthy absence from the thread, folks. I was down with flu last week. Up to date now - please don't be upset if your post didn't get a direct answer, I can't spend as much time answering all the posts as I did before now that I'm playing catch-up, but be assured I read it! WB ! Anyway, regarding few imho important points in my earlier post - ad. #4, #7 and updated #8 ? #4 and #7 are really "forced" regressions from the sisi version (and with simple checkboxes they don't have to be). #8 is separately a bug (really docking is unusable if camera settings are used, whether it's 1 or more monitors) and a feat. request (with necessary math provided). I totally get why you think that checkboxes are simple, but they actually increase the complexity of the feature both for the user and for testing immeasurably, by introducing yet another variable. This is one of the reasons why we try to minimise the amount of toggles and such we are putting in. At this time I really don't think we are going to add a toggle for the picking, but we are going to be making some improvements there so maybe the situation resolves itself. Similarly with the docking. That being said, we will be taking a look at the camera offset issue. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.17 11:02:27 - [113] - Quote Servanda wrote: So found a thing that can be verry frustrating. If you have a window like chat or something placed at the top center and you go fullscreen the menu bar that is on the top center will disapera behind this and it will be imposible to reverse the fullscreen mode until you figured out where the menu is "hidden" had at least 2 guys in my corp that stoped using the new interface because of this until I told them how to fix this. Yup we're going to be making those controls more accessible. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:02:17 - [114] - Quote Soltys wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Soltys wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: So, sorry for the lengthy absence from the thread, folks. I was down with flu last week. Up to date now - please don't be upset if your post didn't get a direct answer, I can't spend as much time answering all the posts as I did before now that I'm playing catch-up, but be assured I read it! WB ! Anyway, regarding few imho important points in my earlier post - ad. #4, #7 and updated #8 ? #4 and #7 are really "forced" regressions from the sisi version (and with simple checkboxes they don't have to be). #8 is separately a bug (really docking is unusable if camera settings are used, whether it's 1 or more monitors) and a feat. request (with necessary math provided). I totally get why you think that checkboxes are simple, but they actually increase the complexity of the feature both for the user and for testing immeasurably, by introducing yet another variable. This is one of the reasons why we try to minimise the amount of toggles and such we are putting in. At this time I really don't think we are going to add a toggle for the picking, but we are going to be making some improvements there so maybe the situation resolves itself. I ... don't really see how that would resolve itself. The more difficult it is to "accidentally" grab a sphere (implicitly it comes down to following complaints: "omg !!! I cannot grab a sphere; why is it so difficult now ???; I want old interface back !!!111") - the more people prefering to grab them will be complaining. And vice versa. Besides, a checkbox is a complexity for the user in this game ? A checkbox that (by default enabled matching current behaviour) says "you can resize spheres by picking and dragging their border" ? Come on, let's be serious and reflect a bit what game we are talking about ... Same about testing. It's not some complex subtle game mechanics. It's simple "can/cannot drag" option. In the exact same barrel as "enable / disable dscan cone". What kind of testing would you want to do here ? Dscan toggle (read: more customization) made everyone happy. Aforementioned checkboxes would be exactly welcome. Either way - the SiSi version was best in this regard (from my PoV at least). You get win-win solution pleasing everyone: - wanna classic behaviour with rotating being living hell as it catches sphere borders instead of rotating ? - leave it enabled - wanna alt+cone/mousewheel functionaltiy only ? - leave it disabled Same about having dockable probe interface inside floating solar map (and again, old SiSi version > this version). Without it you will have one or the other group complaining. You have toggle for dscan - try removing them and see how people will react to "we made it so it's less complex for you". Quote: Similarly with the docking. That being said, we will be taking a look at the camera offset issue. I can prepare short video if that helps. With camera offset there is another irritating issue I explained in this auto(?) closed and ignored(?) bug report. There're more issues with certian targeting/tagging functions as well (it would be really nice to have them fixed after all those years). Hi, I've put our points across as best I can. I understand that you don't agree with the direction we're taking with the toggles, but we're just going to have to move on for now. The offset issue we don't need a video for, thanks though. I checked out the bug reports, and the first one was closed by our outsourcers, presumably because they saw it as a feature request rather than a bug - you've posted in karkur's little things thread with the suggestion, and that is the correct place to post. The latter bug report I'm going to look into, but not as a priority at this time. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:07:27 - [115] - Quote Brokk Witgenstein wrote: I tried and failed to use it. The old probe scanner had cubes I could click to move them around. I don't know what you did to them, but - I can barely see them. I'm not even sure there are cubes anymore -- I saw some very tiny arrows lost in the crowd somewhere. The old map presented all the information I needed without much ado and overly convoluted colour schemes. Red dots. Cyan cubes. Blue outlines. Perfection. This new map doesn't show me anything the old map didn't, yet somehow, it looks very cluttered. - I can't click on these arrows if my life depended on them. I may not be an avid mouse user, I've always slightly struggled with pointing exact locations; but I've always managed quite easily to grab the old cubes and place them where I want them. (I already failed at clicking the arrows even in the old map but at least the cubes were big enough for me). - When I click something, it's almost certainly "something else" than what I wanted to click. Background stuff, bookmarks, you name it I've clicked it. Why is the background clutter even clickable? What could I possibly want to do with it? Hover over to tell us what it is would be fine. If it really has to be selectable, maybe make it so only when the Alt key is pressed? The probes really ought to be the default here guys. When I click on/near a probe, that's what I want. Not planet VI asteroid belt III. Don't care. Just the probe. - I think I liked the new DScanner - even though the Scan button is at the wrong side of the dialog. My DScan is at the left side of my screen. My Scan button used to be close- now it's not anymore. But that said, I think I could like it. However, having one checkbox for both "Try the new DScan and Probe window" means I can't get the new DScanner with the old probescanner. I really, really need the old probescanner for now. I know what you're probably thinking. "does this guy even know how to scan?" Well actually, Yes he does. I've lived in a wormhole. I've scanned and hacked and combat scanned and all that jazz. Sites I could scan down in a minute (yea, a pro only takes 20 sec LOL) with the old map took me three minutes and a lot of frustration with the "previous new map". And with this "latest new map" I can't even do it anymore. After reverting to the oldschool scanner I had it in two scans and I was happy again. In a nutshell: don't remove the old views just yet. I beg you. I'm not opposed to change and most of the bugs seem to be gone now; but without VISIBILITY and CLICKABILITY my scanning career is over. Have you seen my posts earlier in the thread about making the scanner more customisable for your own style of play (using the Markers list to stop the background clutter from being clickable, for instance) and hotkeying the D-scan rather than using the scan button and such? I recommend taking a look. Can you give me a screenshot illustrating your top 2 points please? I'm a little confused, as the cube is really not difficult to see, so I think you might be experiencing a bug or something. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:09:15 - [116] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Terranid Meester wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: I-¦ve been trying to find an answer for this for 4 days. The best I have is "if my cargo is totally full and I need to get probes off scan", which is the edgiest of the edge cases. I have a better answer, warp disrupt probes need to be destroyed sometimes so new ones can be launched. Not all probes are scanning ones. Dictor probes? They don't appear in the probe menu, and aren't destroyable with that button though? Moon scanning probes. Not sure what you're answering with this? Is there a use case with Moon scanning probes that I've missed? CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:10:51 - [117] - Quote Mark726 wrote: Apologies if I'm repeating a comment said already (I unfortunately do not have the time to wade through 17 pages of feedback). First off, this iteration of the probing changes seems to have raised the usability quite a bit, so well done! I'm pleased to see a lot of the older feedback taken into account. There is one thing I miss from the old map, however, and on the off chance that this hasn't been mentioned yet, there something that I'd like to see brought into the new system, if possible. In the old interface, a signal would only turn green once the signal strength hit 100%. It was a quick, visual way to know if the scan succeeded without me needing to check the scan results. In the new interface, however, I've noticed that the signal will often (though not always, it's a tad inconsistent) turn green when the signature gets about 75% strength (You can see that here). I'd love a return back to the old system, where a marker didn't turn green until it was at 100% strength, unless there's some point in turning it green prior to 100% that I'm not aware of. Thanks again for all your work! Signals would turn green earlier than 100% for sure in the old system. I've had plenty ~90% greens. I don't know the purpose behind it though, and I'll ask! CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2871	Posted - 2015.11.18 10:13:59 - [118] - Quote Morwen Lagann wrote: +1 to Mark's post above. I noticed that and didn't pay it too much mind since I always relied on the percentage bar on the signature list. Speaking of the signature list - while you've certainly cleaned it up, I don't think having a colored line under the signature's information line is particularly ideal or really all that readable. All it looks like at a glance is a line separator, not an indicator of the strength of the result. The existing version that fills in a highlight behind the entire line of text works better, IMO. A couple additional things: The manipulators for moving probes do not appear after the probes are launched, until you press control, alt or shift. Not game-breaking, but a little odd, since the first thing you're generally going to do after launching your probes is move them. The old scanning interface let you create probe formations and then save them with names. You could then set one as default and from then on, clicking on the custom formation button would just move the probes into that formation. In the current iteration of the beta scanning UI, the button doesn't seem to do this; instead you click on or hover over the button, then have to move up OFF of the button to click on the custom formation in a drop-up (yes, drop-up) menu that appears. Extra clicking and/or movement involved as it is currently in the beta interface; the behavior of the old button is superior and more efficient - odds are users are not going to be switching between formations all that often, so displaying a list of custom formations, while a requirement, should be considered and treated as the secondary function of the button, not the primary one. Grabbing the edges of probe scan radii still feels a little finicky and more difficult compared to the old interface. Generally speaking, this iteration of the scanning UI is far and away an improvement over literally every iteration up to this point: namely, It's actually usable. Not sure if I'm faster with it than with the old one, but the only way to figure that out is with more practice. I'm not going "OMG ** THIS **" five seconds after opening it anymore, so it's actually going to be a problem of me having to remember to switch back to the old one periodically to compare. Lines and colors are getting revisited most likely in the next release. The cube not showing the first time you launch is a bug and will be fixed. The custom probe thing has been fixed this morning internally and will be deployed once the fix is tested (not today). Picking the sphere sides is more difficult by design - this was the compromise we ended with to appease those who mistakenly grab the sphere sides, and those who want to scan onehanded without the use of modifiers. The most efficient way to resize probes at the moment is undoubtedly alt-mousewheel. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2876	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:24:18 - [119] - Quote Morwen Lagann wrote: CCP Goliath wrote: Lines and colors are getting revisited most likely in the next release. The cube not showing the first time you launch is a bug and will be fixed. The custom probe thing has been fixed this morning internally and will be deployed once the fix is tested (not today). Picking the sphere sides is more difficult by design - this was the compromise we ended with to appease those who mistakenly grab the sphere sides, and those who want to scan onehanded without the use of modifiers. The most efficient way to resize probes at the moment is undoubtedly alt-mousewheel. Cool, thanks for the quick response. Out trying the scrollwheel thing right now - will take some getting used to. Regarding Mark's thing - I think a previous iteration had little circular progress bars around the signature icons in the map. Perhaps that should come back, if signatures are going to turn green around ~75%? The circular progress bars were much maligned and will probably not be making a return. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2876	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:25:55 - [120] - Quote Manssell wrote: The new color scheme (or texture) of the probe spheres is way too bright. The greyish probe cubes mostly blend in now with the brightness of the probe spheres especially when they are small or you zoom out. It's making it much more difficult to actually see them to grab and control the probes. Depending on the angle of the map I'm just clicking on a bright spot hoping to actually grab the probe controls. Could you post a screenshot please? Sounds like something is amiss here. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath



CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2876	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:26:41 - [121] - Quote Terra Chrall wrote: Could the cube be made a little larger? This would help those that want to keep more things on map without them interfering in grabbing the cube. I have mine limited to just a few things but have to toggle bookmarks on and off at times, and even then I sometimes have to search for an unobstructed edge to grab the cube when it is centered on a group of celestials. Edit: I leave planets and belts on as they often help narrow down the possible locations of signatures. I turn off moons since planets is on. We are going to address the issue of grabbing the cube directly with the picking, rather than changing its size which is apparently very contentious :) CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2876	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:29:40 - [122] - Quote Nicen Jehr wrote: I frequently cant grab the side of the cube because the probe's bracket is in front of it and I click that instead. I suggest either making the cubes twice the size of the brackets, or let me toggle the probe brackets visibility. The toggle for probe bracket visibility is in the Markers menu at the top left of the Solar System map window/window controls. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2876	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:31:46 - [123] - Quote Salmandi Deritro wrote: Not sure if this has been mentioned before - tried reading through this whole convo but tbh got fed up. Would it be possible to have the left click - warp to bookmark functionality while scanning in the map as often find I have to come out of maps to move around systems - I know you can click on items in maps and warp to them but finding the right icon and BM visually especially when u have loads on overview is not worth the effort - quicker if inconvenient to close the map warp then reopen it. I do a lot of scanning (live in a wh - duh) and will need to try the new map again - I lasted about an hour the first time I tried it before reverting (when u literally spend hours scanning and mapping every second counts and it was too annoying to bother working around) - hopefully with all the recent changes it might be better. Left click - warp to BM would cause tons of accidents, so no, sorry. You can right click on signatures in the probe scanner window to warp to them directly though, similarly with the People and Places menu for bookmarks. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2876	Posted - 2015.11.19 11:33:37 - [124] - Quote helana Tsero wrote: Any progress on this ? For me this is by far the biggest issue with the new changes. Seperating the dscan and probe scan window is not a solution. Id rather not play the game if it means needing to have yet another window obscuring the view of space. Otherwise just feels like im playing spreadsheets. As I explained, it's a legacy issue and it's being fixed. If you're asking for a timeline, we don't give that for fixes that aren't already lined up for a deployment, sorry. I agree that separating the windows isn't a solution, it's a workaround. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2879	Posted - 2015.11.23 08:42:02 - [125] - Quote Rakoth Maugrim wrote: Two quick things: 1. Is there a way to invert the alt+scroll wheel probe resizing so that scrolling up increases probe range instead? 2. Is there a way to remove the red dot at the center of the sigs when viewing all sigs in the map? Maybe having it in the markers section? (They seem to just get in my way). Other than that love the new scanners. Sorry if my questions are repeats, I tried finding them in the thread first and couldn't. Thanks. Hi 1. Not to my knowledge, sorry 2. The only way is to ignore the signature. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2879	Posted - 2015.11.23 08:44:20 - [126] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: The only thing that was really really wrong with the old scanning was celestials and other things always getting in the way on the map when trying to move my probes. Despite the fact that 99% of the time I want to move my probes and not select a planet or moon or whatever. And then you do a major overhaul of scanning... and actually make this one big problem even much worse! First GÇô coming back after a 6-months break and unexpectedly finding this new system GÇô I was annoyed by all the brackets for planets, locations etc getting in the way. But okay, there is a way to disable them. But it doesn't help at all because these new tiny red dots cannot be disabled and they always get in the way when moving probes, especially when zoomed far out. Extremely annoying, please fix. Make it so that they can be disabled like other brackets. Even better, just make a hotkey that when pressed makes me always move my probes horizontally, no matter where my cursor is. That would be extremely useful. Since Shift, Ctrl and Alt are all taken, it can be Ctrl+Alt or something. And maybe Shift+Alt to move vertically! And while you're at it, maybe correct the old oddity that you can never really look at the map from directly 'above'? When positioning probes, we always have to move them to the marker horizontally while looking from the top, then rotate the view and do the vertical positioning, then rotate again to correct the horizontal position again. See earlier responses in the thread to get answers to all of these points. Sorry, don't have the time to retype them all. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2879	Posted - 2015.11.23 08:46:35 - [127] - Quote Hi folks, Going to keep the thread open, but as we now have a full list of changes to work on to fill the time we have to work on the feature, we are very unlikely to take on anything we haven't already mentioned taking on. If I get the time this week I'll summarise all the changes prior to them coming out, but I would put that in the "not very likely to happen" category tbh. So please do note that from this post onward, it is very unlikely your posts will get replies from me. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath


CCP Goliath C C P C C P Alliance 2892	Posted - 2016.02.03 11:04:30 - [128] - Quote Mynxee wrote: Baler Veritas wrote: Lulu Lunette wrote: Miali Askulf wrote: Probe results are way too hard to see against the probe bubble graphic, eg https://i.imgur.com/5rzqT3O.png. Yes this is my only real complaint as well. Other than that I love the new look it's working for me so far! Absolutely this. I can end up peering right up close to the screen to find the little red dot, it's horrible! An option to change its colour, or shape, or size, or all of the above would be very much appreciated, and in my mind, essential. Personally, bright yellow or pink or something would be ideal, but everyone's eyes are different ALL MY PLEASES, CCP Goliath! Used to be, the red dot of a hit got noticeably brighter when you moved probe bubbles such that they encompassed it. PLEASE reinstate that feature. Doesn't have to be a different color, just a much brighter red. These old eyes really struggle sometimes to find see the red dots and to tell when they are within my probe bubbles. Would be lovely if that feature could be extended to the neat little icons for specific kinds of hits but even if just the red dot was returned to its former glowing glory, I'd be thrilled. Otherwise, I use the new scanning window and really like it now. Whatever adjustment you made to the probe bubble brightness was excellent...they are now nicely visible without burning a hole in my retinas. <3 Yeah they are supposed to be brighter.... Grumble grumble bugs grumble works on my machine grumble grumble. EDIT: For those that aren't Mynxee, who has referenced the brightness changes. Is that screenshot from yesterday/today, or earlier? We deployed changes to the intensity and opacity of the bubbles and probe results, just want to make sure we're all coming from the same point. Can definitely ask for the hit results to be made brighter. CCP Goliath \| QA Director \| EVE Illuminati \| @CCP_Goliath

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