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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy Caldari State
21
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Posted - 2015.11.05 23:45:53 -
[91] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:This is a massive buff too neuts/nos. 80km neuts on geddon is gonna be nuts. Not to mention bhaalgorns 50km super nos edit: I'm bad at math. Geddons will get ~10km more range than current.
80/40 becomes something like 40/20.. so max range would be ~60km. still under the bling overheated points on a certain recon ship. |
XIII Badluck
JINRO The Wolves Brigade
0
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Posted - 2015.11.06 00:07:09 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi M8s! As part of our December release, we're doing a module tiericide pass on Neutralizers and Nosferatu. Tell us what you think! GoalsChanges- Added Effectiveness Falloff
- This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
- Renamed Market Group to 'Energy Neutralizers' & 'Energy Nosferatu'
- Neutralizers & Nosferatu won't activate on targets they can have no effect on
- Ships with existing bonuses to Neut/Nos Optimal Range will receive a 2nd half strength bonus to Falloff
- Added Deadspace Neutralizers
StatsQ&AQ) Can you clarify ' Ships with existing bonuses to Neut/Nos Optimal Range will receive a 2nd half strength bonus to Falloff'? A) Sure, the Sentinel bonus is currently - 80% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer Range After the patch it will be - 80% bonus to Energy Nosferatu and Energy Neutralizer transfer optimal range 40% bonus to Energy Nosferatu and Energy Neutralizer transfer falloff range Q) ' Neutralizers & Nosferatu won't activate on targets it can have no effect on' Does this include targets who are out of capacitor (for neutralizers,) or are below the level of capacitor where a nosferatu would be effective? A) No. Nos and Neuts will always activate on Ships, and NPCs. But, you can't activate them on Asteroids, Stargates, etc. Q) What happens to my existing meta 1-4 modules? A) They will get changed into the new meta modules (A list will be posted above) I hate you CCP
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
613
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Posted - 2015.11.06 00:07:25 -
[93] - Quote
I've suggested this previously, but here it is again....
Under the current system/schedule of module tiericide, it is going to take years to get all of the modules under the new naming scheme.
The current mix of tiericided and un-tiericided modules is confusing for new players - and unnecessary. I recommend that CCP first do a "pure and fast" tiericide pass on *all* modules, to (a) standardize naming conventions and (b) remove unnecessary metas. This should be done quickly, without worrying about redesigning how the modules work, nor doing any rebalancing of stats - preferably within one release cycle; two cycles at most. There isn't any need to solicit much player feedback for simple tiericide.
After all of the modules have been tiericided, CCP and players can leisurely spend more time on specific module redesign and rebalancing.
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Madrax573
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
16
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Posted - 2015.11.06 01:21:51 -
[94] - Quote
I only have used the small/medium NOS/Neuts and with these changes it just looks like apart from the new deadspace modules there will be an overall reduction in effectiveness.
All they have done is split the overall range into Op and falloff and reduced base neut amount. This is just a nerf to overall effectiveness.
e.g.
Current unstable power fluct (Meta4) neut: 6.3km range 54GJ - 100% effective unto that range New Infectious scoped neut : Optimal 4.5km and fall off of 2.25km so total range seems better at 6.75km however it only neuts 50GJ and at 6.3km it would be the equivalent of 80% or 50GJ = 40GJ neutralised. I don't see how this is anything but a nerf to the small neutraliser range.
The new DED modules however are great but I can't see them being that common.
Unless I have my maths wrong (quite possible) this just seems a nerf to standard neut combat. At least for smalls and mediums.
Are neuts THAT powerful to require a nerf to balance them?
The universe is my playground
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Rockstara
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
50
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Posted - 2015.11.06 01:32:22 -
[95] - Quote
for neuts - deadspace power level seems pretty high relative to officer versions. It'd be nice to have a broader range of options between the officer versions maybe some really long falloff but low base range or really really compact fittings in the meta 11-5 range instead of C/B-type range with 8% stronger effect.
Actually all X-type modules are easily available and cheap. Most are sub 100M isk. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
906
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Posted - 2015.11.06 02:17:42 -
[96] - Quote
Cool changes, so when are you releasing the new capless laser turret stats or the new capacitor demand on air conditioners and artilleries?
Oh and while we are at it, when can we see the Curse and Pilgrims new powergrid stats with those "changes"?
Did someone else also ever got confused that the only class of ships that can fit medium deadspace nos's are battleships and up?
And why would enyone ever want to fly anything else but an aircondition boat after this?
Sure the small missle pirate faction boat that gets neuted and scramed and missile deactived from 1000AU away. So no more missiles in 2016?
So it will be an almost awesome sentry drone and aircondition online in farmville-lands online. Yeay??
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2706
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Posted - 2015.11.06 02:58:54 -
[97] - Quote
Querns wrote:Very interesting. This gives supercaps the ability to neut hictors pointing them no matter what. Before, you needed a meta 15+ officer neut to be able to reliably neut out a hictor (for the range.) Now, you can at least add some cap pressure to a hictor tackling you at any range.
I guess Capital Energy Neutralizers would have done that too. Maybe. I'm assuming they'd have longer range than Heavies. Capital neuts should have a very long cycle time, and neut resistance modules (like the capacitor battery) should protect a small amount of capacitor at the bottom of the pool.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Musashibou Benkei
Combined Imperial Fleet Darwinism.
62
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Posted - 2015.11.06 10:20:08 -
[98] - Quote
Why does CCP insist on homogenizing all the faction variants? They really ought to take a lesson from the shield extender and armor plate playbook and given different properties to different faction nos' and neuts. Blood raider ones should obviously nos/neut the most at the cost of increase powergrid etc etc.
There are plenty of other modules which are completely ignored because they are identical to a cheaper variant. Differentiation will re-invigorate disenfranchised faction mods. |
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
314
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:28:10 -
[99] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:- Added Effectiveness Falloff
- This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
is this will work at those percentages, or will apply at those percentages? in other words at 100% optimal + 100% falloff will it have a 50% chance to hit, or will it hit for 50% of transfer amount?
50% Effectiveness, or 50% Transfer. Not a chance-to-hit.
Game Designer | Team Five-0 | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
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CCP Larrikin
C C P C C P Alliance
314
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:28:48 -
[100] - Quote
Lijhal wrote: does that mean nos&neuts are going to have reduced effectivness when NOT at optimal range or will they always have 100% effectivness as long they are in optimal range ?
If they are within optimal range they will be 100% effective.
Game Designer | Team Five-0 | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
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Cristl
257
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Posted - 2015.11.06 12:58:45 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:- Added Effectiveness Falloff
- This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
is this will work at those percentages, or will apply at those percentages? in other words at 100% optimal + 100% falloff will it have a 50% chance to hit, or will it hit for 50% of transfer amount? 50% Effectiveness, or 50% Transfer. Not a chance-to-hit. A quick question: why don't mods such as tracking disruptors use this? Why are they chance to hit based? Simpler server calcs? |
Fourteen Maken
Omega Industry Inc. The Ditanian Alliance
242
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Posted - 2015.11.06 13:12:35 -
[102] - Quote
Small neuts can be effective even on cruisers, the only thing that justifies the fitting cost of medium neuts is the range.
Support a fairer loyalty point market for faction war:
The sinews of war; infinite money.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
907
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Posted - 2015.11.06 13:34:34 -
[103] - Quote
Cristl wrote:A quick question: why don't mods such as tracking disruptors use this? Why are they chance to hit based? Simpler server calcs?
While valid, a question can neither ne quick or slow but long or short.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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To mare
Advanced Technology
426
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Posted - 2015.11.06 14:02:16 -
[104] - Quote
this is one of the changes i`m having a hard time deciding if it`s a buff or a nerf, i guess time will tell. |
Cristl
257
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Posted - 2015.11.06 14:29:31 -
[105] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Cristl wrote:A quick question: why don't mods such as tracking disruptors use this? Why are they chance to hit based? Simpler server calcs? While valid, a question can neither ne quick or slow but long or short. Keep up Charles Dickens. Here's a graph showing the relative frequencies of quick/short/brief/small question. 'quick question' pulled ahead in 1990 and hasn't looked back, mate.
My apologies, I can't make the link work. This is a copy of the url:
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=quick+question%2Cshort+question%2Csmall+question%2Cbrief+question&year_start=1800&year_end=2015&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cquick%20question%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cshort%20question%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Csmall%20question%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cbrief%20question%3B%2Cc0
I'm aware frequency isn't necessarily the best metric, but saying 'quick question' is incorrect is positively Jurassic.
edit: I think the link works! |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2817
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Posted - 2015.11.06 15:09:00 -
[106] - Quote
Cristl wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:- Added Effectiveness Falloff
- This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
is this will work at those percentages, or will apply at those percentages? in other words at 100% optimal + 100% falloff will it have a 50% chance to hit, or will it hit for 50% of transfer amount? 50% Effectiveness, or 50% Transfer. Not a chance-to-hit. A quick question: why don't mods such as tracking disruptors use this? Why are they chance to hit based? Simpler server calcs? Tracking disruptors are chance to hit based? Or the turrets they disrupt? |
imnotangry
CORPSE COLLECTORS LTD
0
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Posted - 2015.11.06 15:15:42 -
[107] - Quote
Alexander McKeon wrote:It definitely seems like officer neuts are getting hit rather hard here; both in terms of effective neuting capability at current ranges where they're an important defensive tool for capitals and relative to the (presumably) far more prevalent deadspace variants. Is there any possibility of a decreased cycle time or something to distinguish the officer modules? 10 less CPU and 9% more neut power seem like a very small benefit over other variants as compared to that enjoyed smartbombs or tackle modules over their non-officer counterparts.
Yeah this is my point i made earlier.. they really kind need to give officer versions something else.. they should have lower fitting requirements or more neut power the higher you go on the meta scale like a chelms neut having 900 neut power or something.. or giving them their old range back + fall off i mean like its meta17?? it should have a edge over a deadspace counterpart |
Cristl
257
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Posted - 2015.11.06 15:19:42 -
[108] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Cristl wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote:- Added Effectiveness Falloff
- This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula
at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
is this will work at those percentages, or will apply at those percentages? in other words at 100% optimal + 100% falloff will it have a 50% chance to hit, or will it hit for 50% of transfer amount? 50% Effectiveness, or 50% Transfer. Not a chance-to-hit. A quick question: why don't mods such as tracking disruptors use this? Why are they chance to hit based? Simpler server calcs? Tracking disruptors are chance to hit based? Or the turrets they disrupt? At optimal + falloff there is a roughly 50% chance that the tracking disruptor effect (whether range or tracking) gets applied.
I just want to know why the magnitude of the penalties aren't reduced to about 50% of their value instead. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
343
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:48:38 -
[109] - Quote
so just to clarify, they will be 0% effective at optimal +2x falloff?
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Harumi Akiga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:55:49 -
[110] - Quote
More buffs for already vastly overpowered sentinel and curse ... well played CCP. |
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Harumi Akiga
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2015.11.06 17:57:03 -
[111] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:so just to clarify, they will be 0% effective at optimal +2x falloff?
Opposite its still gonna neut you there just for small amounts , but yeah i can clarify opposite to what you said. Read first post in the thread again. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2709
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Posted - 2015.11.06 18:24:38 -
[112] - Quote
Cristl wrote:A quick question: why don't mods such as tracking disruptors use this? Why are they chance to hit based? Simpler server calcs? Older server calcs. If CCP built them today, they would use the modern system they are using for neutralizers. Likely they will update the other modules to do it this way as well.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1429
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Posted - 2015.11.06 18:26:25 -
[113] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote: Changes [list] Added Effectiveness Falloff This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
So I if I am neuting someone at 100% optimal and 100% falloff do I still lose all of my cap even though the neut is only 50% effective?
If so then this combined with the reduced falloff seem like a nerf.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
303
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Posted - 2015.11.06 19:06:09 -
[114] - Quote
Cearain wrote:CCP Larrikin wrote: Changes [list] Added Effectiveness Falloff This works by reducing the effectivness of the module when in falloff. Formula is the same as gun falloff formula at 100% Optimal + 0% Falloff = 100% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 100% Falloff = 50% Effectivness (approx figures only) at 100% Optimal + 200% Falloff = 6% Effectivness (approx figures only)
So I if I am neuting someone at 100% optimal and 100% falloff do I still lose all of my cap even though the neut is only 50% effective? If so then this combined with the reduced falloff seem like a nerf. This is a small nerf, slightly more so to ships which have a bonus to nuet / nos range.
Most people would be using the unstable power fluctuator which is getting a range and nuet amount nerf. The range nerf is slightly less if you use the scoped version although that uses extra CPU which will make it unviable for a lot of current fits.
To keep things pretty much as they are you now need to use the T2 version which uses quite a bit of extra PG and CPU which again will make it unviable for a lot of current fits.
Ships with bonuses will be getting a very small extra nerf as they will have half the bonus to the falloff range although this is quite insignificant as falloff is only a small part of the total range.
On the other hand being able to activate the Nos/Nuet when outside of range is a big advantage and being able to have the option to Nos/Neut when a ship is at falloff or beyond is again a big advantage particularly for heavy versions which are still going to be effective against smaller ships.
All in all these are good changes, although I think the scoped versions should have the same range as the T2 versions as they need more of a benefit over the compact version for the extra PG and CPU. T2 will still be preferred due to the extra nuet amount.
(Also please have a look again at T2 MWDs, I said it before that they were going to be useless compared to the Quad-Lif versions, and as of yet I have not had any reason to use a T2 MWD on any of my fits over the Quad-Lif)
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
303
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Posted - 2015.11.06 19:13:22 -
[115] - Quote
Harumi Akiga wrote:More buffs for already vastly overpowered sentinel and curse ... well played CCP. Read my post above. This is a nerf and more so for ships with bonuses. Being able to activate outside of range is a quality of life improvement, but in terms of raw performance they will take a small hit.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1429
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Posted - 2015.11.06 19:51:13 -
[116] - Quote
Its interesting that the goal portion of the op was left blank.
I'm not sure I understand the goal other than:
1) Nerf tech one mods.
2) Help larger ships deal with smaller kiting ships.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Lyron-Baktos
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
489
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Posted - 2015.11.06 23:56:14 -
[117] - Quote
Deadspace neut Bhaalgorn :) |
Jus'not N'miFace
Sheep Teet Industries
2
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Posted - 2015.11.07 00:44:16 -
[118] - Quote
the optimal should stay the same its not as if neuts are over powered -1 |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
307
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Posted - 2015.11.07 00:55:58 -
[119] - Quote
Jus'not N'miFace wrote:the optimal should stay the same its not as if neuts are over powered -1
Oh they will be overpowered soon enough. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
2886
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Posted - 2015.11.07 01:00:43 -
[120] - Quote
This is awesomesauce. Heavy neuts are going to be the deadliest part of BS arsenals now - 24 +12 for normal, and 38 + 18 for a Geddon at 50% effectiveness is going to make some mid-range cruisers really, really sore in the pants zone.
The deadspace Nos/neuts are going to be deadly on the Sentinel, curse and Bhaal. Yus.
Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob
We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA
~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
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