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Could a robot do what a slave does?

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X3S	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:31:00 - [1] Edited by: X3S on 03/01/2007 12:39:34 Robots could easily replace human slaves; we have the technology. However, when a religion claims its followers are superior to all others then slavery is just a means to compensate for their own insecurity.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:34:00 - [2] The difference between robots and slaves is that slaves can be enlightened while robots can't. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:34:00 - [3] According the Amarr religion, the point of slavery it is not the labor, it is the "enlightenment" of the slaves. They indeed would not need the slaves for their technology and standard of living; other nations are doing the same without slave labour. You cannot reason with a religion like that. As long as the religion exists, slavery will. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now.
X3S	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:50:00 - [4] Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference between robots and slaves is that slaves can be enlightened while robots can't. Would those same slaves choose your religion if they had a choice? Its seems to me that Amarr has a convert or die policy. I wonder what the enlighted to dead ratio is?
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:55:00 - [5] The idea is not only to convert the slaves, the idea is to breed the slave race so that after generations it is more suitable to slavery. I doubt they care about the dead ratio, then, it's just collateral damage. I must point out though that with the Matari race, their track record on that breedign program is not exactly stellar. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now.
IzzyChan Harvest System	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:01:00 - [6] Sure a robot can do what a slave does, if it's programmed and built right. But to be completely honest, once you see what True Slaves can do, you never wanna go back to the boring 'ol 'regular' slave guys. --------------------
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:15:00 - [7] Originally by: X3S Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference between robots and slaves is that slaves can be enlightened while robots can't. Would those same slaves choose your religion if they had a choice? Its seems to me that Amarr has a convert or die policy. I wonder what the enlighted to dead ratio is? It's more of a convert or remain in slavery policy. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
X3S	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:06:00 - [8] Edited by: X3S on 03/01/2007 14:06:16 A life of slavery is worse then death.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:08:00 - [9] Originally by: X3S Edited by: X3S on 03/01/2007 14:06:16 A life of slavery is worse then death. I don't see many slaves committing suicide. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Enterral Adun Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:28:00 - [10] Originally by: Rodj Blake I don't see many slaves committing suicide. Thank God for Vitoc.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 18:04:00 - [11] Originally by: Enterral Adun Originally by: Rodj Blake I don't see many slaves committing suicide. Thank God for Vitoc. Thank God for delusional Fractionites. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of slaves within the Empire are not subject to Vitoc. Or, at least you would, if you would do an ounce of research before running your mouth. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
El Sayal Caldari Chaos and Order	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:40:00 - [12] robots are more expensive? Death is certain, Life isn't.
Johannis	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:36:00 - [13] Edited by: Johannis on 03/01/2007 20:36:27 Actually, getting rid of the slaves would be quite a trouble. When thinking about the Amarr, remember that the Empire does not think in the scale of days. Not even years. It might be possible to free most of the slaves within a decade, but then again, what would you do with them? Send to the Republic, and thus collapse their economical system, causing massive immigration to the Gallente, who are already having their problems with the immigration, and thus collapse the Gallente economy as well? The path to Paradise is long, no matter what road is taken. Personally, I do not keep slaves, but instead employ a number of freemen (former slaves of my family, or their descendants). This is possible because as scholars we never employed many. In a greater scale, there can be nothing worse the Amarr do to the Minmatar than abolish slavery. And then, you ask why shouldn't we take care of the freed slaves ourselves? In this, I see bare lack of knowledge. The position of slaves has much improved during the last years, to the point it is not mentionably worse than the lowest class of commoners. Of course, the Empire is not the monolith some people seem to believe, but there are regional differences. Freeing the slaves and then employing them would but collapse the price of labour and thus cast them to poverty. It might be possible to combine the two solutions, but as far as I can see, this is happening right now. Slowly, but it is happening. The Empire was built during many millenia, and it has constantly developed, step by step towards Paradise, but the road is still long. Under the guidance of God we shall succeed. The position of our servants do improve. We reclaimed the Ni-Kunni and Minmatar peoples during the late 225th century (according to our own calendar), and as it is, the Ni-Kunni are Imperial subjects. Not as close to Amarr as the peoples from Amarr Prime (the Udorians and the Khanid), but very few of them are slaves. (Edit for spelling.)
X3S	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:46:00 - [14] How bout you do this, let three representatives from the Amarr/Minmatar/Gallante empires record a holoreel. On this holoreel, those 3 could have the chance to explain they're views on slaves and slavery. Take this un-edited version and show it to all the slaves in universe, then have them vote on their freedom.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari eXin Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:54:00 - [15] Originally by: X3S Edited by: X3S on 03/01/2007 12:39:34 Robots could easily replace human slaves; we have the technology. However, when a religion claims its followers are superior to all others then slavery is just a means to compensate for their own insecurity. The question isn't whether or not the Amarr could find something else to do the work of slaves slaves. The question is, "Why can't the Amarr do the work themselves?" _ Do Unto Others.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:59:00 - [16] There is no question that slave labor is vastly inferoior to the use of robotics in their place. You can fix a robot that breaks in half, you can't do the same for a person. Also, one person can keep dozens of the machines running, while one machine will not be able to do the same. I do not know about others, but on my ships I prefer to use machines where possible, with skilled engineers to keep them running smoothly. The initial costs are high, but in the long run it is worth it. Machines will work in conditions that people cannot without special training and/or specialized equipment, further raising their costs. And this a comparison between machines and ship crew who are no doubt better in health and skill than a slave would be. Slavery on a whole just seems pointless. The Amarr have their reasons for it, none of them make economic sense, but they're not in it for the economic reasons. Military reasons perhaps, but I would prefer a business with a skilled crew of 100 working and helping maintain 900 automations, than one where slaves do the work. Such effectiveness is perfect for us as well. The State's population is quite small compared to others, however when one person is able to use technology to do the work of several, it is work well done. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:01:00 - [17] Originally by: X3S How bout you do this, let three representatives from the Amarr/Minmatar/Gallante empires record a holoreel. On this holoreel, those 3 could have the chance to explain they're views on slaves and slavery. Take this un-edited version and show it to all the slaves in universe, then have them vote on their freedom. And the opinions of the State are worthless in such a discussion because...? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Devilish Ledoux Caldari eXin Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:17:00 - [18] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia Originally by: X3S How bout you do this, let three representatives from the Amarr/Minmatar/Gallante empires record a holoreel. On this holoreel, those 3 could have the chance to explain they're views on slaves and slavery. Take this un-edited version and show it to all the slaves in universe, then have them vote on their freedom. And the opinions of the State are worthless in such a discussion because...? ... because the State would make and sell the robots, probably. Or possibly because the State doesn't have many Matari citizens. _ Do Unto Others.
Lucius Lefebvre Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:23:00 - [19] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia And the opinions of the State are worthless in such a discussion because...? Because the Amarr would preach about the virtues of conversion; the Gallente would make an impassioned plea for liberte; the Matari a clarion call for freedom and retribution; whilst the Caldari produces an in-depth analysis on production efficiency... I suspect it has nothing to do with the ratings and everything to do with the average slave's lack of exposure to spreadsheets. Either that, or it was a simple oversight. Personally, I found your description of shipboard systems quite enlightening. I may have to invest in some modifications myself.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.03 22:28:00 - [20] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Enterral Adun Originally by: Rodj Blake I don't see many slaves committing suicide. Thank God for Vitoc. Thank God for delusional Fractionites. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of slaves within the Empire are not subject to Vitoc. Or, at least you would, if you would do an ounce of research before running your mouth. Please point out where my comrade refers to all slaves. Today's family of vitoc drugs have well-known disincentives for commiting suicide, certainly if one cares to peruse the literature this is advertised as one of the side benefits of the control method. Furthermore, the paramilitary Blake is a well-known ship captain and presumably sees slaves aboard ships more often than anywhere else. Vitoc is a prominent slave-control method in ship and other space-related environments. So perhaps you should not be too hasty yourself in 'running your mouth'. Originally by: Rodj Blake It's more of a convert or remain in slavery policy. Are you suggesting that every slave that converts is released? This will be news to many. The reality is that the devout can be enslaved, or remain in slavery, just as much as those who are 'unenlightened'. The determining factor is the convenience of the Holder, not some vague religious duty. The notion that slavery is a road to enlightenment is simply a fairy-tale constructed for propaganda purposes. The Amarrian practice of slavery is justified by their mad superstitions but is largely a grotesque mixture of Holder pride, sweat economics and government by fear. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Recruitment
X3S	Posted - 2007.01.03 23:29:00 - [21] Edited by: X3S on 03/01/2007 23:29:24 Originally by: Devilish Ledoux The question isn't whether or not the Amarr could find something else to do the work of slaves slaves. The question is, "Why can't the Amarr do the work themselves?" They can't because compared to a brutor male, amarrians are weak and have small bone structure. Of course this is from generations from breeding amarrians to be dependant on slaves, so who is the real slave in this situation
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:26:00 - [22] Originally by: The Cosmopolite Please point out where my comrade refers to all slaves. Today's family of vitoc drugs have well-known disincentives for commiting suicide, certainly if one cares to peruse the literature this is advertised as one of the side benefits of the control method. Furthermore, the paramilitary Blake is a well-known ship captain and presumably sees slaves aboard ships more often than anywhere else. Vitoc is a prominent slave-control method in ship and other space-related environments. So perhaps you should not be too hasty yourself in 'running your mouth'. Whether it was haste or just Matari intellect at work, your comrade seems to be far less verbose than yourself, and you now seem to be left twisting words to try and spin your comrade's nonsensical statement into something meaningful. The topic at hand is slavery in general; not 'slavery, specifically on starships'. As such, a snide remark about Vitoc is little more than an attempt to spread propaganda - again, the majority of slaves controlled by the Empire are not subject to Vitoc. As for the Admiral's experience, I dare say that any citizen of the Empire knows far more about the conditions of our slaves than the lot of you. The fact remains, terrorists keep going on about how death is preferable to a life of slavery, yet the numbers don't seem to support them in the slightest. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Devilish Ledoux Caldari eXin Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:26:00 - [23] Originally by: X3S so who is the real slave in this situation Which was my first reason for disdaining the practice of slavery. It weakens the slaveholder, who should be able to do things for himself. It wasn't until later that the moral arguments against slavery came home to me (literally). _ Do Unto Others.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:44:00 - [24] Originally by: Anatolius Whether it was haste or just Matari intellect at work, your comrade seems to be far less verbose than yourself, and you now seem to be left twisting words to try and spin your comrade's nonsensical statement into something meaningful. The topic at hand is slavery in general; not 'slavery, specifically on starships'. As such, a snide remark about Vitoc is little more than an attempt to spread propaganda - again, the majority of slaves controlled by the Empire are not subject to Vitoc. You are the one twisting words: Blake brought up the subject of suicide and Blake referred to his experience with slaves. It is perfectly fair comment to reference a well-known method of control that has suicide-deterring properties and which is in use on spacecraft and other facilities that capsuleer paramilitaries would have experience of. There is no disputing that vitoc is used by the Empire to control a significant proportion of slaves and no disputing that it deters suicide due to the horrible manner in which it kills those who do not take the regular dose of counter-agent, for whatever reason. It's therefore entirely relevant to any discussion of slavery in the Empire and the suicide, or lack of it, of slaves. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Recruitment
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:28:00 - [25] Originally by: The Cosmopolite There is no disputing that vitoc is used by the Empire to control a significant proportion of slaves and no disputing that it deters suicide due to the horrible manner in which it kills those who do not take the regular dose of counter-agent, for whatever reason. It's therefore entirely relevant to any discussion of slavery in the Empire and the suicide, or lack of it, of slaves. The Cosmopolite I don't care much for slavery, so perhaps I've missed notes that explain how Vitoc deters suicide, but your statement I have highlighted sounds as if you think a slave's only means of suicide is to stop taking the counter-agent. There's no reason what so ever to believe such a thing. Vitoc's horrible withdrawal effects would not stop a slave from hanging them self, or jumping off a tall building or cliff. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Yoshito Sanders Amarr Yazata Spenta Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:40:00 - [26] Vitoc can't stop a slave from hanging himself, slitting his wrists, or doing a thousand other things to commit suicide. So your claim is moot.
Scragg Caldari Tyrell Corp	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:10:00 - [27] We call them replicants. They are more human than human.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Yo**o Sanders Vitoc can't stop a slave from hanging himself, slitting his wrists, or doing a thousand other things to commit suicide. So your claim is moot. Not at all. Modern Vitoc generates a euphoric effect which does much to bind the the slave to his master and the slave's life. This, combined with the evil effects of ceasing to take the drug as a means of suicide plus the lack of ready opportunities for suicide û you're surely not telling me that slaves are daily presented with such opportunities? û would tend to reduce the prevalence of suicide amongst the slave population controlled with the Vitoc drug. Under its effects that hesitation which surely afflicts any rational being seeking to take their own life would no doubt be magnified into a tendency to not even attempt the act. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Recruitment
Doc Extropy Gallente Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.04 03:26:00 - [29] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux Originally by: X3S Edited by: X3S on 03/01/2007 12:39:34 Robots could easily replace human slaves; we have the technology. However, when a religion claims its followers are superior to all others then slavery is just a means to compensate for their own insecurity. The question isn't whether or not the Amarr could find something else to do the work of slaves slaves. The question is, "Why can't the Amarr do the work themselves?" Because they are lazy, wicked racists. Originally by: Fortior Good things come to those who persevere.
Aran Cole Minmatar Xerxes Enterprises Aegis Militia	Posted - 2007.01.04 04:50:00 - [30] "[insert any race here] are racist." Racist much? _______________________

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