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Yoshito Sanders
Amarr
Yazata Spenta
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2007.01.04 06:45:00 -
[31]
Maybe Vitoc's tranquilizing side effects would cause those slaves using Vitoc to not want to commit suicide. However, because suicide is not a significant cause of death among slaves NOT treated with Vitoc, the old justification of the terrorists that "slaves are better dead than slaves" obviously isn't something that the slaves believe themselves. For groups that believe in "freedom" and "rights" so much, it seems kinda hypocritical to deny people who have done nothing wrong other than be born to the "wrong" mother and father the right to decide if they want to live or not.
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Occasus Vim
Minmatar
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.04 09:30:00 -
[32]
The will of the Matari people to live on and perhaps one day be free from their hell is not evidence that they are content with their life's circumstances.
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Octavinus Augustus
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Posted - 2007.01.04 10:41:00 -
[33]
There's no end to the delusions of these Minmatar rebels.
It seems the they need to believe that the Amarr simply wish to enslave the other races inhabiting our galaxy - noone knows for what reasons we would wish do this.
What none of them seem to be willing to face are historical facts.
- When first the Amarr encountered the Ni-Kunni they were indeed held against their will for a short while. Much like a child is forced to go to school for his own good - even if he dislikes the experience. Now the promising Ni-Kunni has grown up and found its place next to their Amarr family - trusted, free and acknowledged.
- Likewise with the Ammatar. When the deluded Minmatar rebelled (much like teenagers rebel against the authority of their parents) the Ammatar took up their place as friends and allies of Amarr. Today they are proud and free - not at all the slaves portrayed by the Minmatar rebels
However, this is a sidetrack from the original topic question. Could robots replace slaves?
We Amarr would have much less trouble with rebels and terrorists if we did replace them, and we might well achieve a much higher standard of workachievement. But that is not the point. If we did this replacement we would deny the stray children their chance to grown up to enlightenment, prosperity and service to GOD. That would be a cruel thing to do indeed.
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X3S
Minmatar
SYOID
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:49:00 -
[34]
Edited by: X3S on 05/01/2007 10:50:13
Rascism, Hardly. I hate slavers and most slavers happen to be from Amarr. If I came across anyone involved with making isk off slaves, I would pod kill them regardless of race.
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Darina Rea
Harvest System
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Posted - 2007.01.05 16:50:00 -
[35]
It's still a good question.
Could slave replace robots? Or robots slaves? I'd say you'd have to look closer to the weak point of the two to make a decision. A human for example can do any work, with sufficient training and education ofcourse, and is able to be flexible about it. On the other side a human is prone to errors and slower working then a robot. A robot can do any work it has a program for. It cannot go outside the program but will neither make any errors within the program unless the parameters change to much for the program to compensate.
Hence slaves are best used where flexibility and adabtability are paramount, such as being a waiter or servant, and robots are best in fixed situations where precision is paramount, such as a construction line.
The best ofcourse is a human robots. The precision and flexibility both in one. It has been tried alot the programming way, rather desastrous - rogue drones were the result and it has been done the biological way, I don't think I need to elaborate on the result either. It works.
_________
Time is on our side. |
Jalmari Vaara
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Posted - 2007.01.05 17:48:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Enterral Adun
Originally by: Rodj Blake
I don't see many slaves committing suicide.
Thank God for Vitoc.
Vitoc is not direct mind control, anyone under it's influence is perfectly free to kill themselves, if they found death prefereable to serving.
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Derran
Minmatar
Khumatari Holdings
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:46:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Anatolius
Whether it was haste or just Matari intellect at work, your comrade seems to be far less verbose than yourself, and you now seem to be left twisting words to try and spin your comrade's nonsensical statement into something meaningful.
This is comical coming from you since very often CVA, PIE, etc., do the same thing to sidetrack all the unpleasant facts lest it paint them in unkind light.
Originally by: Octavinus Augustus
There's no end to the delusions of these Minmatar rebels.
It seems the they need to believe that the Amarr simply wish to enslave the other races inhabiting our galaxy - noone knows for what reasons we would wish do this.
What none of them seem to be willing to face are historical facts.
- When first the Amarr encountered the Ni-Kunni they were indeed held against their will for a short while. Much like a child is forced to go to school for his own good - even if he dislikes the experience. Now the promising Ni-Kunni has grown up and found its place next to their Amarr family - trusted, free and acknowledged.
- Likewise with the Ammatar. When the deluded Minmatar rebelled (much like teenagers rebel against the authority of their parents) the Ammatar took up their place as friends and allies of Amarr. Today they are proud and free - not at all the slaves portrayed by the Minmatar rebels
Those two you just mentioned are still treated as second class citizens and will never achieve a position of power. Have you or will you see a Ni-Kunni or Ammatar become Emperor, for instance? Never going to happen.
And let us not forget how the Amarr don't even discriminate in who they enslave either. They enslave Gallente and even their own people. Their justice system will use it as a penalty. So much for doing it in the cause of 'enlightenment'.
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Raelin Krens
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Posted - 2007.01.06 07:49:00 -
[38]
I must admit I have had a slave commit suicide under my watch. It was tragic, but there was nothing I could do. He refused almost all of my commands. I had so much trouble with him, I contacted the one who sold him to me, who shall remain nameless, and demanded a refund.
He referred me to the terms I signed upon my purchase of said slave, which stated, in short, that there would be no refunds. As the slave was of no use to me, I went to him and told him that I had decided to drop him off at the border of Amarr space, as a free man. I allowed him to board my ship and we set off. A fraction of the way there is when it happened. He somehow jettisoned himself from my ship and then accidentally got run over. I was shocked by this tragedy, and still mourn his loss to this day.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.06 13:21:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 06/01/2007 13:20:10
Could a robot do what a slave does?
The Amarr could not excercise their twisted sadism on robots.
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Lion El'Johnson
Minmatar
Lion's Emporium
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Posted - 2007.01.06 14:01:00 -
[40]
All this rhetoric about slaves commiting suicide and vitoc this that and the other is pointless.
What does spring to mind is this question. If the slave population in the Amarr empire is so stable then why the need to cross into Republic space for more. We all know that you have breeding programs in place to upkeep your slave populations and the amount you take is quite horrendous.
There is possibly two reasons for the need of more slaves. Suicide is quite popular or profit.
Now Either way you are failing in your God bothering tasks of your precious book. Profit is not thought highly of when it comes to helping people to "enlightenment" and suicide, well that just fails outright.
So what we have here is yet another reason as to why the amarr fail at pretty much everything. You preach all this crap to people whom pretty much laugh in your faces. You try to teach slave labour all this god bothering nonesense and they commit suicide. The only people who really take much notice of your are weak willed, pathetic individuals who don't seem to be able to think for themselves. Namely your average amarr citizen.
This level of religious servitude in an empire as large as the amarr is just baffling. Your religion is restrictive and, quite frankly, backwards progressive.
Now I know the god botherers will jump on here and try to say "Your a matari terrorist. What would you know" bull crap. But honestly give me the reasons for following this faith so blindly. Please do not reply with the good old "heaven awaits the followers of god" tired old rethoric.
Following a faith blindly towards that goal does not give a reason. Heaven is a magical place made up in the minds of weak, sad, hoplessly lost individuals. Give us a real reason. One we can empathise with. Then we might be able to take our opinion of you to the great hieghts of Idiot instead of weak willed, insecure, inbred, facist, mindless automitons.
Infact bring the Archbishop before us here in Gal-net. He has been rather quiet these past few days. Rather strange for him. Come Archbishop teach us all about why we should follow this faith of your so blindly.
In response to the OP. Yes robots can do the job of a slave it is just the amarr have the need to oppress the weaker people of the universe to give themselves that fuzzy feeling inside.
It makes them feel all special and also increases their social standings within their own empire.
Proper Regards,
Lion El'Johnson,
CEO
Lion's Emporium Corporation.
"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word,
which means more to me than any other.
That word is ENGLAND."
...Winston Churchill. |
Dau Imperius
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.06 15:55:00 -
[41]
(OOC: Archbishop is too busy with PoTBS-beta, smart bloke)
Hmm, I'm one to agree with um..X3S is it? What and odd name. Anyways, First you need to remove the backwards and outdated Religion my people still use. Then there's no need for enlightenment that way, because they'll be more enlightened without some 'God' that doesn't exist telling them what to do.
No need for slaves then, as there shouldn't be anyways. As uch as I destest the Minmatars ways as well, at least they have a valid point: Slavery is useless. One can be enlightened without the choke hold of a slave collar. It takes a better Amarrian to see that, then anyone quoting rubbish from a book.
Robots as a replacement though? hmm. All these rogue drones however make me weary of that prospect.
No, I coudl see them doing the work, but what if they achieve sentience? Are they then not their own masters as well? Simply yes, artifical life is still life, therefore I could not see them used as slaves either.
Perhaps someday we'll see another race in this galalxy of ours. That of a robotic nature. Interesting times we'd see then. I wonder how many of you shallow 'races' would automatically fear them? if one brigth side it might actually unite a few of our races together, in defiance. Good cause for the wrong reasons though.
*sighs* I suppose I've put more in here then your feeble minds could philosophise with. My apologies. Go back to your shoot everything you see mode.
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Devilish Ledoux
Caldari
eXin Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.06 16:02:00 -
[42]
Well, what do you know: An ethical Amarrian. What a novelty. It's like meeting a talking furrier.
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Do Unto Others. |
Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.06 16:09:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Derran
Those two you just mentioned are still treated as second class citizens and will never achieve a position of power. Have you or will you see a Ni-Kunni or Ammatar become Emperor, for instance? Never going to happen.
Never is such a strong word. It will probably take quite a while, but we've already seen a Udorian on the throne.
Still, as the galaxy forgot their duty toward God, He appointed the True Amarr to be the guardians and pathfinders, to lead the galaxy towards enlightenment.
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Nachshon
Caldari
Tyrfing Securities
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Posted - 2007.01.07 23:42:00 -
[44]
If you have been given the duty of enlightening the galaxy, then you have failed. Miserably. If you had been working for a Caldari corporation and failed this badly on a project, you would have been fired.
It is not your goal that is wrong, but your method - slavery. I have heard the justifications a thousand times. Now, I ask you, did it work? Have the Minmatar slaves accepted the Amarr religion?
You might point to the Ammatars. However, they were never enslaved. They were a Minmatar tribe before, and they collaborated with you. They willingly accepted your religion.
Meanwhile, your practice of slavery has turned the galaxy against you. The Minmatar despise the Amarr religion as the root of all evil. The Gallente have no love for you either. The Caldari are only your allies as long as it is economically sensible to do so.
Perhaps if you had tried missionizing and evangelism you might have succeeded. You could have attracted converts based on the merits of your faith. Instead, you have permanently tarred your religion with the stain of slavery. You have even alienated some of your own people - I see more Amarr who fight against the Empire than non-Amarr who join it.
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Ottom Ephesianos
Amarr
Freelance Unincorporated
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.01.08 06:31:00 -
[45]
Lets see, can robots replace human slaves? No, machinery is meant to help human activity. The completely artificial intelligences are insane for robots. There are no computer chips or nano robots that I know of capable of those degrees of processes. They burn out but the hardware doesnÆt. ThatÆs what weÆve managed to gather from the Sansha correct me if IÆm wrong hereà
No they couldnÆt be replaced by robots because slaves are humans. IÆm counting souls as human since a pod pilot is close to being completely artificial save for having an accounted and patterned soul from a living body recorded somewhere and put into Concords data base.
---------------------------------
"Trust me I've done this before."
Elite R. Ephesianos
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Father Abel
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:24:00 -
[46]
While I am not a scholar in the ways of my Amarrian allies, I believe this conversation arose from a fundamentally flawed question. It is mistaken to compare and contrast robots and slaves as economic models. Robots cannot replace slaves, because they do not serve the same function.
The robot works. The slave is worked upon. While the slave does indeed do work as well, it is only a function in the larger process that our Amarrian allies call enlightenment. We Caldari use machine labor for its efficiency. Our workers are merely a means. Our Amarrian allies, however, seem to view their workers as an end. The true product is not produced by the worker, but is the worker himself.
For that reason, it is pointless to argue economics and question why the Amarr have an insatiable need for Matari slaves.
_____________________
Father Abel - Lieutenant
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
"Private property makes a free man a free man." |
Alassra Eventide
Veldspar Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:49:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Alassra Eventide on 08/01/2007 17:47:11
Originally by: Father Abel
For that reason, it is pointless to argue economics and question why the Amarr have an insatiable need for Matari slaves.
Indeed, it is pointless. Why else would anyone have an insatiable need for Matari "Slaves" like me?
I'm going to wait until someone finally understands the context and sarcasm I meant that in.
Besides, robots can only perform so well compared to a living body.
((Edit: Spelling))
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Kaleigh Doyle
Bloodveil
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:52:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Kaleigh Doyle on 08/01/2007 17:49:19
One could argue the economics of reclaiming lesser races at the cost of the lives of their own people, which are allegedly God's chosen. Whether it be noble sacrifice or masochistic tradition, it seems rather foolish from either standpoint.
(edit for spelling)
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Alassra Eventide
Veldspar Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.08 19:02:00 -
[49]
Ms. Doyle, you say that like there is something wrong about noble masochism.
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