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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.03 20:59:00 -
[1]
I'm just going to get straight to the point. I don't really like the current state of salvaging in several respects so here's some simple changes that I feel might improve it overall.
Cycles and times... First of all I honestly don't get what the point of a chance based success rate with salvaging is supposed to accomplish. There have been too many roll-of-the dice chance based additions to Eve and recent times and this one really doesn't make any sense no matter how I look at it. So first of all change it to a fixed cycle time of say 2 minutes per cycle, at the end of said cycle the wreck has been salvaged (think of how mining lasers work right now).
The cycle time is reduced by the survey skill; at level 5 the time is reduced to say, 40 seconds (I'm just throwing this figure out as an example, feel free to debate the time).
Yields... This section comes in two sub parts.
First is the salvaging skill increases the yields of salvage components per level (max of 50 to 100% more components at level 5 - again, another figure off the top of my head). Named and t2 salvage mods could then be added that give more yields, or better cycle times etc. It is still possible some wrecks won't contain salvage components but those that do at least give better yields to truly dedicated salvagers.
The second part concerns loot. Currently if you are just after salvage, loot can be a nuisance - especially with bulky items. So instead make it possible that if you salvage a wreck with loot inside it gives more components than an empty wreck (before the salvage skill calcs come into play). If a pilot wants the loot to either use, sell or melt down for minerals then that's up to them and sorting the loot from wreckage etc would be an issue they should have to deal with. If a pilot is looking for pure salvage components they can simply salvage the wreck with loot inside for bigger yields and less hassle hauling mods.
My own view is that rigs should be cheap and common; as someone said a while back, they are basically junk that's thrown together to "hotwire" a ships systems to improve performance (at a cost). The effort involved in obtaining components for rigs seem to be one of the main limitations that keep prices up. Also as I stated at the start, the whole chance based system seems to be fairly pointless and silly when you get right down to it.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Gummi
The Short Bus Squad The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:09:00 -
[2]
Such a clear and logical idea. Makes sense to me.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:39:00 -
[3]
Wow lots of words there...
Seriously tho, I actually read it all and you make some good points. I too feel that the 'junk cobbled together to improve performance' shouldnt be so expensive and hard to find. As it stands now I have just written off rigs, as I cant be arsed to train the skills/spend the time to make my own, and am too cheap to buy at the current prices. If they tweaked the system a bit more to make them a little easier to obtain, then Ill start using them. -=^=-
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Static Ga'lraith
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:44:00 -
[4]
F Rho. ----------------
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Bastogne
Caldari Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:45:00 -
[5]
/signed
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xeom
Veto.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:47:00 -
[6]
Rho for president. ---
"Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
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Ficti0n
FireTech Imperium Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:50:00 -
[7]
/signed
Put it in your sig or someting so CCP notice the idea.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Even the Matrix had glitches. Spoon, Lag, whats the difference... Neo had to fight for an entire movie to learn how to stop time. We do it every day in Jita.
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Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.03 21:59:00 -
[8]
I endorse this product and/or service.
(There's nothing like spending ten minutes to get one component, and then getting 10 components off another wreck in a single cycle. )
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Detavi Kade
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Posted - 2007.01.03 22:08:00 -
[9]
I like most of it. The only thing is...Right now, loot inside of the wreck belongs to someone, per concord. The wreck itself doesn't belong to anyone.
If someone can salvage a wreck, with loot inside of it, is that "stealing" per concord?
Again, I'm not against your proposal, but I would like clarification on this.
Originally by: oveur
EVE is primarily a PVP game
from the following dev post |
Caedicus
Minmatar Einherjar Rising Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:26:00 -
[10]
/signed
I made a thread requesting the exact same thing. However, most people berated me and said salvaging was fun, ROFL.
There is just absolutely no reason why salvaging should be chanced based. Seriously, can anyone one think of an advantage that chanced based salvaging have over time based?
The only purpose I see to chanced base salvaging is that, it allows using multiple salvagers on a single wreck will (on average) increase the time to salving that wreck. There are easy work arounds to have the same effect on time base salvaging.
Salvaging takes too long. It maybe a profession but it doesn't have to a boring, time consuming profession. Skinning in WoW took about 5 seconds to skin a mob or less, would it benefit anything to make it longer? No.
Evolution in Eve:
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Eralus
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:26:00 -
[11]
I agree that the quality/amount of salvage should go up as your salvaging skill goes up. This only makes sense. Higher salvage skill gets you more intact armor plates than damaged armor plates, etc.
Disagree on the loot thing. Loot is loot. Having some ammo in a wreck shouldn't increase your chances of getting salvageable components. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:46:00 -
[12]
Roger that.
Also I'd add that the scan group Scrap be enabled to show wrecks.
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Maj Woodcock
Minmatar United Space Aillance USA
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Posted - 2007.01.03 23:56:00 -
[13]
/signed
too bad CCP won't even give this a "look see". of course I have been wrong before, but not often. "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands,hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H. L. Mencken [yellow]PROMISES MADE > PROMISES KEPT [ye |
KillerLU
VakAtioth
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Posted - 2007.01.04 00:54:00 -
[14]
That's exactly what I tought salvaging would be. Except the loot inside thing. Hope CCP will have a look at salvaging again, besides invention. -------------- Recruiting: Check our Recruitement thread or our HP |
DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.01.04 00:56:00 -
[15]
All good ideas IMO...
The "failed to salvage this time" serves no damn purpose except to **** me off...
Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead |
Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.04 01:36:00 -
[16]
Sounds like some good ideas to me.
Make it so Number 1!
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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xOm3gAx
Caldari Stain of Mind
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Posted - 2007.01.04 01:58:00 -
[17]
/signed ---------------------------------------- "Mercinaries never die, we just go to hell to regroup." -xOm3gAx '99
Currently Accepting Contracts contact xOm3gAx ingame. |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.01.04 02:05:00 -
[18]
moooh... the biggest concern i have with scavenging isn't covered here =( those no-loot-no-salvage wrecks are teh 3v1l! and with longer cycle times (whatever this suggestion will bring in the end) it'll be even more of a nuisance - not just some minor one to stretch the whole concept time-wise. (yes, i understand i could just ignore npc frigate wrecks for a start - but the professional scavenger spends quite some time cursing atm) - dont spawn a wreck if there's nothing in it ("your boomstick completely vaporized blahblah" upon annihiltion) - pop the wreck if looted and there'll be no components (in any possible way)
and now for something completely different: the salvage tackle rig - like the skill, it currently just improves the "if", no? in your system, it'd support the amount?
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subvert
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Posted - 2007.01.04 02:46:00 -
[19]
Edited by: subvert on 04/01/2007 02:46:03 2 minutes per cycle on salvaging? are you crazy? I salvage most wrecks in 10 seconds as it is now. NO NO NO NO NO!!!
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Sanzorz
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.01.04 04:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: subvert Edited by: subvert on 04/01/2007 02:46:03 2 minutes per cycle on salvaging? are you crazy? I salvage most wrecks in 10 seconds as it is now. NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Yes, but not all of us decide to bring salvage up alot. In my case I just want to learn it to bring in the stuff, so perhaps a friend can make it later.
The amount it takes to get one rig is more annoying than having a longer yet 100% loot chance salvage duration.
--- Currently flying a PvE geared Crusader.. |
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Running Feet
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Posted - 2007.01.04 04:30:00 -
[21]
/signed
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Enders Vaal
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.04 05:29:00 -
[22]
le /signed
-------------------------------------------------------
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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.04 09:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Detavi Kade I like most of it. The only thing is...Right now, loot inside of the wreck belongs to someone, per concord. The wreck itself doesn't belong to anyone.
If someone can salvage a wreck, with loot inside of it, is that "stealing" per concord?
Again, I'm not against your proposal, but I would like clarification on this.
Fair point and it wasn't somthing I considered. My own view is that wreckage and salvage doesn't really belong to anyone and is so up for grabs by whatever vultures get there first. Of course some will disagree, but I don't have a straight forward solution that wouldn't be overcomplicated.
Originally by: Caedicus
The only purpose I see to chanced base salvaging is that, it allows using multiple salvagers on a single wreck will (on average) increase the time to salving that wreck. There are easy work arounds to have the same effect on time base salvaging.
True but with the idea I propose you can still use multiple salvagers on one wreck, it's just a waste of time since the first cycle to finish will consume the wreck. However with some tractor beams you can have a ship working on several wrecks at the same time with less messing about waiting for a good "roll of the dice". Like you I just don't get the point of this chance based salvaging.
Originally by: Eralus
Disagree on the loot thing. Loot is loot. Having some ammo in a wreck shouldn't increase your chances of getting salvageable components.
Fair enough. I just see loot as still functional salvagable components as opposed to the remains of destroyed modules and systems (if that makes sense) and so the salvage mod can break these down into rig components. It also opens the possibility for more diverse components based on what was fitted (i.e. laser weapons in loot being salvaged give a small amount of components suitable for energy weapon rigs) making player wrecks give more varied wreckage.
Originally by: subvert Edited by: subvert on 04/01/2007 02:46:03 2 minutes per cycle on salvaging? are you crazy? I salvage most wrecks in 10 seconds as it is now. NO NO NO NO NO!!!
First, the 2 minutes was just a figure I threw out off the top of my head for an example, not a figure I intended to be quoted on with any degree of seriousness. Second, even if it was I stated it would be the base time, that would be significantly reduced by the survey skill (the pre req alot of people spent time training to 5 in preperation for when salvaging first came out). This was to provide some benefit for those who had invested the training time into a skill that's often ignored.
Cheers for the feedback.
PS: F Static
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar RevoLution Of DarkNess
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Posted - 2007.01.05 08:44:00 -
[24]
This is a great idea. Chance based systems simply suck.
It would be nice to salvage unlooted wrecks without removing the loot nor get criminal flagging. Either have the modules end up in a can after the wreck is gone or simply have them vanish in the salvage process. If the loot vanish it isn't technically stolen either.
Now if the salvaging will be skill based and not chance based it would be great with some advanced salvaging skills introduced to improve speed and yeild not to mention dedicated salvaging ships with strip salvagers.
Hopefully salvaging can turn into a proper specialized profession similar to mining.
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Phyrr
Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab
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Posted - 2007.01.05 09:09:00 -
[25]
I agree with everything except the looting bit just jet can what you can't carry. I mean how do you know the salvagable bits aren't under the loot in the wreck:P
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Sin Xiang
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Posted - 2007.01.05 09:16:00 -
[26]
while i for one would love to see cheaper rig mods, given the state of the Eve economy both before and after Revelations i seriously doubt taht even when salvage becomes more commonplace rigs will take a drop of anything greater than 35-40% the desireble ones will probably always be 40Mil + and theres a very simple reason for it, its the same reason that +4 implants arent 400k and that Arblest Launchers are so dang pricey. players are willing to spend a LOT of ISK of the extra edge. the rigs do a signifigant level of improovment, and unless theres somthing i've totally missed i dont believe theres any stacking penalty either. so would you pay 50Mil to have a cepter thats 20% faster? i'm sure theres PvPers who'd line up from 0.0 to Jita to get 2 Auxillary Thruster I's for anyhting less tahn 50Mil and being as you wont ever be able to get rigs from wrecks, they're already at a much higher market saturation tahn most people think. i seriously doubt the supply will ever be anywhere near an equilibrium. i dont particularly care for the state of the salvage industry myself, but its a very delicate thing to fine tune and i think their current method of slowly increasing the ammount of salvage in wrecks untill things are a little less volitile is the best way to go.
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subvert
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Posted - 2007.01.05 09:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: subvert on 05/01/2007 09:27:00
Originally by: Wild Rho
First, the 2 minutes was just a figure I threw out off the top of my head for an example, not a figure I intended to be quoted on with any degree of seriousness. Second, even if it was I stated it would be the base time, that would be significantly reduced by the survey skill (the pre req alot of people spent time training to 5 in preperation for when salvaging first came out). This was to provide some benefit for those who had invested the training time into a skill that's often ignored.
theres still no point ito that. you come off as being very inexperienced with salvaging. if I have to gues you fit 1 salvager on a battleship. anyone who flies a real salvage ship like destroyer knows that most wrecks salvage on first cycle even with just salvage level 3. thats 10 seconds. what do you want to do reduce it to 1 second? you usually need the 10 seconds anyways to tractor in or fly to more wrecks.
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Wild Rho
Amarr Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.01.05 09:48:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 05/01/2007 09:49:02
Originally by: subvert
theres still no point ito that. you come off as being very inexperienced with salvaging. if I have to gues you fit 1 salvager on a battleship. anyone who flies a real salvage ship like destroyer knows that most wrecks salvage on first cycle even with just salvage level 3. thats 10 seconds. what do you want to do reduce it to 1 second? you usually need the 10 seconds anyways to tractor in or fly to more wrecks.
I've done my fair share of salvaging and built a few rigs from it. I prefer to use a geddon with 4 salvage mods, tractor beams and cargo expanders in the lows.
Personally I'd rather see a fixed time capable of being reduced by the survey skill (an otherwise barely used skill that people put the time in to train to level 5 in preparation for salvaging). As you said yourself, at level 3 the salvager works fairly relaibly on the first cycle. This is further evidence the chance based system is pointless.
You want cycle times to stay as short as they currently are, I'd prefer to see them extended in combination with the removal of the chanced based system and having the survey skill be useful by reducing cycle times to somthing close to what they are now. At the end that comes down to personal prefernce and there's little point in arguing it further since neither of us are likely to change our minds.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.05 10:03:00 -
[29]
The thing is, because of how salvaging works I have to fly some missions with three ships now:
1. Combat (whatever) 2. Salvage (destroyer, needs at least 4 Salvagers!) 3. Loot (hauler - optional when I need minerals)
I also don't get why the Salvagers have a range of 5kms when you need to cozy up to 1500ms first to empty the wrecks - even with another 4 tractor beams that's still a nuisance, since sometimes wrecks get stuck on each other, and sometimes the damn tractors refuse to pull them in closer than 1500ms.
Just one Salvager module with a guaranteed return on a reduced cycle time would be great - that could fit on a hauler next to a tractor beam.
This may kill the mini-profession of "Salvation Specialist", but see, if "Looting Specialist" was meant to be a mini-profession and you'd have to hire folks to do it for you there'd be a scream of bloody murder.
--
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000Hunter000
Gallente The Lookers
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Posted - 2007.01.05 11:00:00 -
[30]
Not sure if this has been posted or not, but i would like to see 1 simple change.
If a ship doesn't have salvage it does not drop a wreck but a can (if it has loot that is, if it has nothing it doesn't drop anything)
Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
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