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Jhonen Senraedi
Minmatar Decimus Corp Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.10 15:41:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi
As an addendum..Nice to see you admit that you carry such illegal cargoes having denied through many of the discussions here...that such acts are perpetrated.
Please point out these alleged denials that we from time to time transport slaves that have been legally procured.
Mister Blake...There are no "Legally Procured Slaves"...In Matar space...nor should there be anywhere else in the Galaxy.....aBut in Matari space....what you try to disguise as lawful...is very much illegal. As far as breaking laws in Amarr space...I can only speak for myself,as I am but a humble pilot and have no right of sanction over the free will of others...but,I have never entered into combat in Amarr space. Of course circumstance may change the whole shape of what we are forced to do to support and win freedom for our brothers and sisters held against their will by a corrupt and decadent society that is beginning to show renewed signs of Imperial grasping and greed. Many more shows of illegal activity and aggression within the borders of Free Matari space will only spur the peoples of Matar and all who think your practices abhorrent...into stronger resistance...Either on our home soil and space or wherever we must fly to make you abolish the foul practice of slavery.
These are my own views,views,no doubt shared by many...but I can only speak for myself...and not as a representing voice for My Corporation or Alliance.
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.10 16:03:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 10/01/2007 16:01:38
Quote:
As far as breaking laws in Amarr space...I can only speak for myself,as I am but a humble pilot and have no right of sanction over the free will of others...but,I have never entered into combat in Amarr space.
No... you merely are in an alliance which is actively supporting an alliance who has not just broken laws but committed outright acts of war against Amarr.
Groups like NMTZ supporting warmongers such as EM now seem to be brings us all closer to catastrophic war on a grand scale as you are putting your false concepts of freedom above the peace of this universe, and the very survival of your republic.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.01.10 16:18:00 -
[63]
Many more shows of illegal activity and aggression within the borders of Free Matari holy Amarr space will only spur the peoples of Matar Amarr and all who think your practices abhorrent...into stronger resistance...Either on our home soil and space or wherever we must fly to make you abolish the foul practice of slavery 'freeing' legally aquired slaves and wantonly destroying Amarr property.
These are my own views,views,no doubt shared by many...but I can only speak for myself...and not as a representing voice for My Corporation or Alliance.
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Maybe that helps you to see that two worlds are colliding here and that you best stay on your side of the border, where your laws are valid.
Not that it will all matter much once the Minmatar province has been reintergrated into the Empire. Things will be so much easier then - one set of laws for all of us.
Now recruiting!
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Nachshon
Caldari Tyrfing Securities
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:45:00 -
[64]
May I make a proposal? Both sides must IMMEDIATELY withdraw to their respective nations, and remain there for 48 hours. After that, negotiations may be held.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.13 00:15:00 -
[65]
If you get PIE Inc and their allies to agree to that, Caldari, I will do my damnest to talk my side over to it too.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Jack Malus
Gallente Phoenix Wing Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.01.13 00:55:00 -
[66]
From my vantage point PIE Inc. are the aggressors so they need to either withdrawal under their own will or be driven back.
Until then, I'll just have to enjoy my stay in Minmatar space. Man it's tough to find reasonably priced blasters around here.
---
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Tharrn
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.01.13 01:56:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jack Malus From my vantage point PIE Inc. are the aggressors so they need to either withdrawal under their own will or be driven back.
Until then, I'll just have to enjoy my stay in Minmatar space. Man it's tough to find reasonably priced blasters around here.
Repeating it over and over again won't make it right - EM joined forces with the Brutor Freedom Front to attack two convoys of the Amarr Human Resources corporation in the Bleak Lands - that makes THEM the aggressors and pirates on top of that.
Now recruiting!
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.13 02:42:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 13/01/2007 02:42:12
The peace conditions are quite clear.
Quote: Should the Electus Matari expel those members involved in illegal attacks upon the Amarr Empire, and should EM issue an apology for their pilots' acts of war against Amarr and a reimbursement to the Imperial Human Resources for all damages caused by said pilots, then PIE Inc. would be glad to discuss a return to neutral standing for the EM.
As for NMTZ, should they condemn all acts of war committed against the Amarrian Empire, then I believe we might have enough common ground to start negotiations as to their status.
We will not, however, let the acts of EM that started this war be treated as anything short of what they are: Piratical acts of war against the Holy Amarrian Empire.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Nachshon
Caldari Tyrfing Securities
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Posted - 2007.01.14 02:01:00 -
[69]
These are matters for negotiations. First, you show that you are willing to negotiate by accepting the cease-fire. The Electus Matari show their willingness to negotiate by reciprocating. Then you sit down at a negotiating table and THEN you give your demands. Not before.
If you truly wish peace, then you will withdraw from Minmatar space. If the Electus Matari truly wish peace, then THEY will withdraw from Amarr and Ammatar space. Do not make negotiations contingent on key demands. Make PEACE contingent on key demands.
Incidentally, I am afraid that I must decline any offers to fill the role of mediator. As Eslebeth is probably aware, I may soon join Namtz'aar K'in, which would put me on the Minmatar side of this debate.
Perhaps CAIN could become our mediator? True, they are at war with Electus Matari, however their intentions seem to be even-handed. Assuming, of course, that EM withdraws their war declaration, I feel that they would be excellent mediators - and enforcers of the future peace accords.
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Svetlana Scarlet
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.14 02:12:00 -
[70]
I would be more than happy to act as a mediator for any sort of peace negotiations -- as I and other Reserve officers have stated, our goal in this matter is only peace. However, until both sides agree to a ceasefire, and show some willingness to budge from their opposite perches, it seems that such negotiations are unlikely.
If Electus Matari does not feel we are sufficiently neutral, I am sure we would support any other neutral third party that both sides would accept as mediators; should both sides agree to a ceasefire, the Reserve will stand down as well. -- CAPT Svetlana Scarlet CAIN Chief of Diplomatic Staff
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Elsebeth Rhiannon
Minmatar Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.14 02:23:00 -
[71]
I have repeatedly offered the same, pilot Scarlet; either to mediate myself, or, if I am not found neutral enough, to find someone who is found such.
PIE Inc has shown no signs of willingness to talk, however, and as long as they do not, it is a moot point.
-- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient now. |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.14 03:36:00 -
[72]
Before we even considered war we made a point of clarifying with EM that this was not just some big mistake on their part.
Instead, we have Meklon pridefully admitting that EM was involved in the actions against Imperial Human Resources, which took place in Amarrian space.
Quote: It was requested that they drop the slaves they had within their cargo bay and as I previously said, one of the more trigger happy pilots who were assisting the Brutor Freedom Front unfortunatly let loose his turrets - resulting in the unfortunate destruction of the vessel.
The justification for this murder, which had EM pilots figuring prominently among those 'more trigger happy pilots' pouring hostile fire upon Amarrian ships, was that the convoy was carrying republic citizens.
Yet we have from the Imperial Human Resources this statement:
Quote: I can assure you that none of the slaves being transported that day were "Republic citizens" or anything of the sort. Imperial Human Resources abides by the Yoiul Conventions to the letter, and does not traffic in slaves illegal acquired. All IHR slaves are home bred and trained, from birth to adulthood. I have certificates of authenticity to prove this fact.
These attacks against my corporation are illegal and unlawful acts of terrorism. Anyone assisting in the attacks are terrorists themselves.
When Meklon was asked for his proof that the 'republic citizens' were anything of the sort... he repeatedly evaded the question. It seems that the only proof they had were the rumors that led them to attack the convoy in Amarrian space.
Of course, even had their beliefs been true, which the lack of proof suggests is not the case, then the peaceful and lawful way to handle the issue would have been to go through Imperial Authorities as the convoy in question was in Amarrian Space and under Amarrian law.
So tell me, what do you call a 'neutral' party destroying a convoy owned by an Amarrian corporation in Amarrian space? I would suggest that it is a declaration that they no longer wish to be neutral, and the recent focus EM's propaganda has had on freeing slaves by force would suggest that I am right.
Our quarrel is not with the republic, it is not with NMTZ, it is only with those who would breach the peace of the Amarrian Empire and bring death to God's people. This is not about the republic and Empire, it is about the piratical actions of a single organization who have decided to follow the footsteps of the U'K.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Nachshon
Caldari Tyrfing Securities
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Posted - 2007.01.14 03:44:00 -
[73]
They are not neutral. Neither are you. The dispute that I am trying to end is between the Amarr (specifically, CVA and PIE) and EM. Tell me, would you accept the ceasefire if EM did?
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.14 04:05:00 -
[74]
I personally see no signs that EM has any desire to work for peace between the republic and the Empire. I cannot personally support any ceasefire between PIE and a self-proclaimed 'freedom fighting' organization unless I see some guarantee that the ceasefire would be in good faith. Though, as their acts of war against Amarr were committed without warning or provocation, I must admit I find the prospect of Meklon in particular negotiating in good faith to be rather unlikely.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Nachshon
Caldari Tyrfing Securities
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Posted - 2007.01.14 05:18:00 -
[75]
Yes, yes, we know that you do not trust EM. However, were they to accept such a ceasefire, would you reciprocate?
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.14 21:24:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 14/01/2007 21:21:40 I believe I have made myself quite clear, unless EM proves that they are interested in reverting to republic supporters rather than terrorists I cannot personally support any halt of hostilities. As is, any such move by Meklon would be, in my personal opinion, little more than a play for time.
NMTZ on the other hand, I would personally be quite willing to negotiate with.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Meklon
Caldari Minmatar United Freedom Front Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.01.14 21:37:00 -
[77]
Gaven, it is almost upsetting to hear you say that any move of mine towards a peaceful resolution of the conflict would be a play for time.
I do find the current situation somewhat out of hand considerint the events that have led us here. However, if there was a legitimate table for possible peace-talks with no rediculous demands orchastrated by a neutral third party, then I would be more than happy to commit myself to such negotiations.
The only reason for continued hostilities on the part of Electus Matari and her active allies, is merely due to the increasing presence of Amarrian and Caldari fleets within Republic space.
However, if these incursion continue, we will see no alternative then to begin counter strikes into Amarrian territory once more and increase the levels of warfare that are currently in action.
Personally, and I am sure the pilots of the Electus agree with me, we would rather see a peaceful end to this over-grown war, but we are not willing to sit on our hands and cave in to rediculous demands. -=======- -=======- -=======- -=======-
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.14 23:18:00 -
[78]
Statements such as the above merely reinforce my belief that you would truly honor any such ceasefire, at least not until it no longer suited your bleeding alliance's interests.
Quote:
However, if these incursion continue, we will see no alternative then to begin counter strikes into Amarrian territory once more and increase the levels of warfare that are currently in action.
Your operations against Amarrian assets have not ceased, as the loud proclamations on this very forum by one of your pilots have made utterly clear over the past weeks, so how could you 'begin' counter strikes?
Then you have the load of nonsense about the war being related to Amarrian incursions into Matari space. I am sure that is what you are telling your allies as you dupe them into a war they do not belong in, yet it is another outright lie.
The fact remains that this war is, and always has been, about the acts of war committed by your pilots in Amarrian space, acts which were committed dishonorably by an entity that had up to that point claimed to be neutral.
So tell me, how am I to trust that EM would be negotiating in good faith... when all I hear from Meklon's statement is yet more lies and mis-truths to join the myriad of other such dishonest statements and actions on the part of EM that have brought this bloodshed about.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Mordenkainan
Caldari Lone Gunmen
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Posted - 2007.01.15 00:09:00 -
[79]
From your own Archbishop (but be warned the quote is old)
With the recent increase in the number of top quality slaves available in the Minmatar marketplace and the limited numbers of slaver transports available a crisis is developing in the warehousing and training of the livestock.
With that in mind a fleet of SPCS Bestowers recently set out on an ambitious project. The development of a new Slave Receiving Facility (SRF) aptly named Port Enlightenment. The first Amarrian slave processing station on the border Minmatar occupied space. This receiving and distribution station will cut an estimate 25% off the processing time of the average unit of livestock and allow a seamless flow of slavesfrom Minmatar occupied territory to our glourious empire undefined
(bold is mine)
Nough said - nothing has changed.
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Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 01:49:00 -
[80]
You fail to understand what SPCS was doing there.
Archbishop was transferring slaves who for one reason or another hand been stranded in Matari space and were either being returned by their owners, who had left them in Matari space for some reason, or were returning to the Amarrian fold by their own power.
This base was, however, in Amarrian territory and under Amarrian law and while some of the people bringing slaves to the outpost would have been guilty of smuggling under republic law... that is hardly the equivalent of the acts of war that have brought us to this point.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
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Nachshon
Caldari Gradient Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.01.15 17:57:00 -
[81]
Slavery does not exist within the Minmatar Republic. Any slave who enters the Republic, under Republic laws, automatically gains freedom. As for the owner, tough luck for him.
Bringing slaves back, regardless of their place of origin, is in fact a capital crime. Should I catch you doing this, you will be on the recieving end of my missiles.
__________________________________________ What I say should not be taken as the position of Gradient or NMTZ. |
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