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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:34:00 -
[1]
Chaos now has updated version of Targeting Speed, as explained before in a Dev Blogg on how these changes will affect current gameplay. Here are details on how this will work:
All ships get a new attribute which is called "Scan Resolution" ("Targeting Speed" will be removed), it then takes "Signature Radius" of the object in to count when targeting. Meaning the smaller the object, the longer time it takes to get a target on it.
Battleships will need much longer base time to get a target on cruisers and frigates than cruisers or frigates would.
Addon feature for this is a new bar next to the target that counts down from start of targeting to the finish, it also shows in seconds.
The formula used for the calculations is 10000/scan resolution/asinh(signature radius)
Examples:
Target: Slasher (20 Signature Radius)
Targeting Ship: Slasher (1000 Scan resolution) = 2,7104 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Kestrel (700 Scan Resolution) = 3,872 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Stabber (325 Scan Resolution) = 8,3 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Caracal (255 Scan Resolution) = 10,6 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Typhoon (150 Scan Resolution) = 18 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Raven (110 Scan Resolution) = 24,6 base targeting time
Target: Rupture (165 Signature Radius)
Targeting Ship: Slasher (1000 Scan resolution) = 1,7244 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Kestrel (700 Scan Resolution) = 2,4634 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Stabber (325 Scan Resolution) = 5,3 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Caracal (255 Scan Resolution) = 6,76 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Typhoon (150 Scan Resolution) = 11,49 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Raven (110 Scan Resolution) = 15,67 base targeting time
Target: Megathron (450 Signature Radius)
Targeting Ship: Slasher (1000 Scan resolution) = 1,4701 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Kestrel (700 Scan Resolution) = 2,1001 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Stabber (325 Scan Resolution) = 4,5 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Caracal (255 Scan Resolution) = 5,76 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Typhoon (150 Scan Resolution) = 9,8 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Raven (110 Scan Resolution) = 13,36 base targeting time
This is testable now on Chaos but is not fully tuned, more changes will happen to these example numbers I'm giving out.
You may dislike these changes, if you do so, flame some where else.
Please test this out and leave behind comments and bugs if you find them.
"Where is my hat?" |
Leitari
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:37:00 -
[2]
Nice, but what will happen to the Targeting speed boosting modules? Low and midslots???
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:40:00 -
[3]
Industrials.
Wouldn't large industrials like the Mammoth be somewhat penalized by these changes? IE, easier to target and go pop?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
TomB
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:41:00 -
[4]
 Quote:
Nice, but what will happen to the Targeting speed boosting modules? Low and midslots???
They will be changed into affecting the scan resolution - they will most likely be broke today, I'll get them fixed asap.
"Where is my hat?" |
Merdekka Radaen
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:42:00 -
[5]
Will test this ASAP, just wanted to say that I've been waiting for this since it was first suggested and those numbers look great to me. Finally a genuine reason for mixed fleet combat, this is a HUGE change to pvp and one I welcome greatly. |
Parity
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:43:00 -
[6]
this is nice and all that .. but what about my skills ? i have lvl 5 signature analasis .. is that just crap now ?
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Kalki Nibiru on 01/12/2003 18:51:06
Great change, hopefully this will even up combat with the ship classes.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=45025
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:47:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Jarjar on 01/12/2003 18:48:34
Umm, battleship vs battleship etc needs to get *fixed* IMHO.
This is indeed a PvP NERF.
A raven camping will need 5,5 seconds to target a megathron, with sig analysis 5, and a F-90 sensor booster (best). In that time, you'll have plenty of time to get out even without invulnerability time... 
Of course, one might say that "campers" need to use frigates; which don't have enough cap to run 2 20km warp scramblers for too long. :/
(Not a flame! Just suggestions, and my thoughts. I might change my mind when chaos is up  )
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think this is a step in the right direction, but a bit extreme.
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Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:50:00 -
[9]
Quote:
this is nice and all that .. but what about my skills ? i have lvl 5 signature analasis .. is that just crap now ?
Nah, it will become level 5 scan resolution
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Leitari
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:50:00 -
[10]
This is so nice, at last my fleet of Griffins will have some meaning!!!
Here, Only the silent survive.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:50:00 -
[11]
TomB; I'm generally for this idea - but won't this take things a little out of hand?
Assume I am a gatecamper (just assume now ) in a Typhoon. Assume a Rupture warps in. First I have to worry about the invulnerability timer, then about the plus 17 seconds targetting time.
This will effectivively kill piracy. It will make it impossible to hunt in belts / at stations also, since the great targetting time will allow them to warp out unless AFK...
Unless of course you want to see that pirates all go in cruisers and lower, in which I have nothing to say :/
/Nightfang
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Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:51:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Vel Kyri on 01/12/2003 20:55:45
TOMB!!
great sounds wonderful..
JarJar - that is what is good about battleships . they take out other battleships well.
i dont think its a bad thing...
what i would love to know is do frigates target battleships really fast now??
(oops - after reading again and the next post - i am blind...  )
-----
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: j0sephine on 01/12/2003 18:56:07
"what i would love to know is do frigates target battleships really fast now??"
"Target: Megathron (450 Signature Radius)
Targeting Ship: Slasher = 1,4701 base targeting time
Targeting Ship: Kestrel = 2,1001 base targeting time"
... Don't know the Slasher, but 2.1 secs for Kestrel is much faster than the 'default' base lock speed... (4 secs)
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Gyrn Fzirth
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Posted - 2003.12.01 18:55:00 -
[14]
Quote:
Unless of course you want to see that pirates all go in cruisers and lower, in which I have nothing to say :/
/Nightfang
Well, he's trying to make cruisers and frigates (shuttles?) viable ships again. As it is, everyone that can flies a battleship because, well, there's no downside to doing so. This creates a believable downside to flying a bs, so I'm all for it.
However, as I noted in my little entry under the blog that announced this, I'd _much_ rather see existing bugs fixed before introducing changes that could in turn introduce more bugs. Bug fixes first, then balancing, plz.
===============
Killboard: http://www.celeskills.com
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sutty
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:10:00 -
[15]
invun timer needs to go now. or be changed, could have it like this, when your invun you cant dock or warp, then the invun has done his job you are loaded then you are in control. giving you a fighting chance of a lock
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Herophant
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:17:00 -
[16]
Thumbs up
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Steini OFSI
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:21:00 -
[17]
Now capsules cannot be destructed with battleships, because they will never be able to lock on them?
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Ana Khouri
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:28:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ana Khouri on 01/12/2003 19:29:54
Piracy should be still possible, you just need some people in frigates who will do the initial scrambling. Sure, they cannot hold the target long, but long enough until a BS has targeted it.
Still, the targeting speed of BS vs BS is too long IMO.
Raven vs Frig: 34 sec
Raven vs Cruiser: 22 sec (~66% of vs Frig)
Raven vs BS: 18 sec (~50% of vs Frig)
It should rather be around 10-12 sec.
Killing pods is still possible with a BS, just fire one cruise/torp too much ;) You'll likely loose the cargo then, too, of cource.
free speech not allowed here |
Agent Shield
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:30:00 -
[19]
Quote:
invun timer needs to go now.
I would like to know if the invulnerability timer is now going to be a thing of the past.
From the example given, a Raven locking a Megathron will take 18 seconds (with no skills I assume), so will the 18 seconds come after the 10 second invulnerability timer or is the timer beling eliminated?
Agent Shield |
Brukhai Khan
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:31:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Brukhai Khan on 01/12/2003 19:34:18
interesting, but some of the issues JarJar has mentioned need to be addressed as well or these changes will put pirates out of business.
i think a viable path might be through sensor linking (which nobody uses these days anyways) - to allow two ships to link their sensors in order to achieve faster locks (i.e. a smaller ship lets the bigger ship piggy-back on his sensor signal, effectively replacing his lock-on time. if the ship who has the lock is destroyed or loses the lock, the other ship loses lock as well).
in effect that might lead to battleships teaming up with smaller ships in order to achieve faster target locks.
also, the numbers for battleships locking cruisers look a bit high to me, this might seem ok when regarding a fleet battle, but what this might cause is that we just see more ravens out there loaded to the brim with FoF missiles.
so I guess there need to be modules which allow battleships to at least cut their lock-on times in half (because in order for the new system to be fun for everyone there need to be people still flying around in battleships, or all the cruiser pilots wonŠt really have targets).
also, IŠd get rid of the "scan resolution" variable and just add a constant to modify signature radius in the equasion. that way the upwards curve wonŠt look so bad for the battleships, and you can always adjust the targetting speed variable to balance things out.
edit: the above posters approach seems to make more sense, leave the targetting speed and make signature radius more important.
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:31:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Golgrath on 01/12/2003 19:34:43
+ Brings more diversity in fleets
+ Promotes teamwork
- Pretty much the end for 'lonely' pirates at gates and jips
- 1 vs 1 bs and cruiser pvp also dead
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Lex Luger
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:31:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Battleships will need much longer base time to get a target on cruisers and frigates than cruisers or frigates would.
I dont quite understand the logic behind this.
It makes sense that it should be easier for any ship to get a lock on battleship than on a frigate. Frigate is much smaller than battleship so it makes sense that its harder to get a lock on the frigate.
What TomB is saying is that if a frigate and a battleship try to lock another frigate at the same time, the frigate will get a lock much faster then the battleship. Why? What makes it possible for the frigate to get a lock so much faster then the battleship. They are locking the same ship. I mean i can understand a small diference like it is now, but the difference shoud not be this huge.
Like I said, it should be harder for any ship to get a lock on a frigate than on a battleship due to the difference in their size.
But if a frigate and battleship try to lock another frigate at the same time than the difference in lock time should not be this big. After all it would only make sense that a battleship will have more powerfull scanners than a small frigate.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:38:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Of course, one might say that "campers" need to use frigates; which don't have enough cap to run 2 20km warp scramblers for too long. :/
I think the idea is that campgroups simply not be all battleships, is all.. or all frigates... or all anything. This was supposed to be mixed-fleet PvP all along, and we disproved that theory; now it's getting fixed.
all the dedicated pvp groups have blackbirds out the wazoo anyway, right? Heck, you might even start seeing vigils again... now where'd i leave mine...
Quote:
Addon feature for this is a new bar next to the target that counts down from start of targeting to the finish, it also shows in seconds.
Wahey!
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:38:00 -
[24]
This does not count for everybody but...
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE THINK ABOUT WHATS BEING SAID HERE BEFORE POLLUTING OUR EYES WITH YOUR SHEER IDIOCY!
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Novo DuPont
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:43:00 -
[25]
Tomb:
While I like this idea I see a somewhat annoying problem turning into a major problem in relation to sensor boosters used on BlackBirds and Scorpions.
Sensor boosters will give those ships 1 second lock times with enough of them on. The good thing atm is that BS's without them and just signature analyisis skill can get 6 to 7 second locks. So atm its not a big issue for combat, just gate camping.
Here is the problem:
Now with targeting times of upto 18 seconds base, between BS's, A Scorpion with 4 sensor boosters, assuming you are keeping the bonus ratios the same, will be getting around 3 to 4 second locks while a BS without boosters might get 14 to 15 second locks. That means that Scorpions and Blackbirds will now have even MORE of a advantage and be able close distances with a mwd and be at web stasis range before the other BS's can even target them, and thats at 30 km ranges.
I am hoping that the bonus ratios will be reduced quite a bit. In all reality if the sensor booster's bonuses had been cut in half it would of made a good balance as well without having to implement a new system.
BUT I DO LIKE THIS NEW IDEA :)
just some of the modules need a major rethink either on bonuses, or better yet make a move to Hi Slots , even better :) (seeing that boosting scanning range SHOULD use up alot of power).
"To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
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Valeria
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Posted - 2003.12.01 19:59:00 -
[26]
My corp consists of me and a friend. I have played since Beta 2, I have been in both small and large corporations. I weep for this change, as it may very well force me to either join a big corporation or hire 20 noobs in frigates just to kill a shuttle carrying 1000 megacyte at a gate. But I don't want that, I like it just fine with 2 members. Maybe some day it'll be 3. Or 1. But never more.
And knowing CCP, you'll keep the invulnerability timer aswell. Even though you fix so that ships do not appear until they are loaded.
Please... I really want to keep playing.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.01 20:07:00 -
[27]
Seriously, I know the changes are good. But the industrials like the mk V and Mammoth are huge.
The change will have a decided effect on their usability, which may not be appropriate given the training time invested in the larger industrials. Short version, a Hoarder is more likely to escape a battleship while a Mammoth is a sitting duck.
The larger industrials might need some tuning to upgrade their survivability. Pure speed isn't enough once you're locked.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Antimater
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Posted - 2003.12.01 20:23:00 -
[28]
Fantastic...this really just might encourage the market again to buy those useless frig BP's and start producing again...the oppertunities are endless...muhhhhahahh
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Tyria Evenstar
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Posted - 2003.12.01 20:35:00 -
[29]
A step in the right direction. Still an issue or two to make frigates a viable option to use.
If the targeting battleship or crusier has a mwd installed, they can easily stay out of a frigate's optimal range, and stay in their own optimal range. So when the ship (in this case a frigate) eventually becomes targetted, they will destroy it quickly.
Frigate's speed needs to be drastically increased and mwd's need much bigger power and cpu requirements to fit on battleships. Also there should be a limit to only one mwd per ship.
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TomB
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Posted - 2003.12.01 20:38:00 -
[30]
Quote:
Here is the problem:
Now with targeting times of upto 18 seconds base, between BS's, A Scorpion with 4 sensor boosters, assuming you are keeping the bonus ratios the same, will be getting around 3 to 4 second locks while a BS without boosters might get 14 to 15 second locks. That means that Scorpions and Blackbirds will now have even MORE of a advantage and be able close distances with a mwd and be at web stasis range before the other BS's can even target them, and thats at 30 km ranges.
Modules affecting Scan Speed have always been affected by the "stacking nerf", changing "Sensor Booster I" to affect Scan Resolution.
Scorpion Base Scan Resolution: 75
Targeting Megathron: 19,6009 seconds
Scorpion Scan Resolution with 4 Sensor Booster I: 236,1144449
Targeting Megathron: 6,226091982 seconds
You sacrifice 4 medium slots to get this timer, still a frigate would be much faster in targeting the megathron to warp scramble and stasis webify (Merlin would for example target the Megathron in 1,896864842 seconds base time). Could rather fit your Scorpion for jamming to keep the frigate out of damage from the Megathron
"Where is my hat?" |
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