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The ME slots issue yet again!

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ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.07 22:21:00 - [1] Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:18:42 Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:17:43 You know the drill ME slots have not been increased in proportion to the population increase as we yet again break a new player record. Community comebacks will be, get a pos set up a lab more slots will just get filled instantly responses to those points are not everyone that wants to research is able to setup a pos, it is the research veterans that are using most of the ME slots most of those have the ability to setup pos labs but don't due to the fact they only have 1 slot per function per lab. It would be nice if they lead by example and move over to pos research but ain't gonna happen. to the more slots will just get filled instantly.... if that was truly the case all the ME slots would have been filled constantly when the population was 10k we all know that wasn't the case so anyone with that kinda come back is talking complete bs. some options for solving the situation pick and mix between them. 1. Change the research and manufacturing slot system completely introduce an algorithm such that it takes the peak weekly population of a region and increases the number of slots available in proportion to that value until it reaches a max threshold point at which point it stops generating slots, this prevents everyone blobbing together in one region for research and encourages a natural spread but still compensates for high population regions. 2. Overhaul POS based research, firstly increase the base number of slots per pos not by many but enough to be realistic for corp usage but drop the time bonus. Second introduce an advanced mobile lab structure, with the time bonus and double the number of slots that are found on the new normal mobile lab. Also as a minor tag on idea find some way to allow slots to be rented publicly. 3. Introduce a CORP standing requirement (similar to jump clone requirement) to use more than 1 slot at a time. 4. Introduce an age limiter on the number of slots you can use so the older a player you are the fewer station slots you can use. This system favours someone just getting into research. There ya go feel free to jump in an suggest idea's Oh and people will flame, most of those are people that have the research system in their pocket already and don't want people cutting into their profits. Tough it happens. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.07 22:28:00 - [2] Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:25:24 Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:25:04 Originally by: Samirol or go to low sec, there are ME slots there dude i live in lowsec in one of the most under populated regions in eve thats not 0.0, and theres not 1 free ME slot in the entire region Provide me with screenies of 10 independent locations in empire where there is 1 free ME slot and I'll start beliving ya Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.07 22:47:00 - [3] Edited by: ToxicFire on 07/01/2007 22:46:00 Will people please stop going check lowsec.... people that are saying that seriously havent looked at the interface for science and industry lately it lists all ME slots in an entire region so its easy to check and there are very few to no ME slots available in any empire region. If you can't offer proof via screen shots simply saying theres some in low sec makes your opinion totally invalid. And again to the guy who brought up the point of pos researching cus the fuel only costs 50 mil.... go back and read the original post because you clearly didn't read more than the first 5 or so lines, this entire thing is about people new to research new to the game just getting into it who aren't going to have 50 mil a week to fork out on pos fuel. Oh and alot of queues now are in excess of a week, so again we come back to this issue of some newbie researcher that has his first set of bpo's that he wants to do some ME research should only take him a couple of hours... looks at the ME slots and see's it will take him a couple of weeks before they even start, newbie gives up been a researcher and becomes a pirate preying on you. :P Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.07 23:33:00 - [4] Originally by: Sovy Kurosei Originally by: ToxicFire Oh and alot of queues now are in excess of a week, so again we come back to this issue of some newbie researcher that has his first set of bpo's that he wants to do some ME research should only take him a couple of hours... looks at the ME slots and see's it will take him a couple of weeks before they even start, newbie gives up been a researcher and becomes a pirate preying on you. :P The newbie should join a corp that can offer him the service of using a starbase laboratory to do ME research. Or go into trading, buying low and selling high while his BPOs are being researched to get a good understanding of the market before jumping into production. Thought one of the BIG THINGs about EVE was that it didn't force you down any route. ;) Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.08 00:17:00 - [5] Just did a quick survey of caldari space. No ME slot free, minimum wait is over 2 weeks averaging at 17 days Have screenies of every ME facility for proof aswell :) Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.08 00:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 08/01/2007 00:24:54 First off, your info about POS labs is plain wrong, as others have already said. Second, why don't you already have access to POS labs? It's not like you're a newbie. Third, you can rent labs from plenty of seemingly trustworthy corps. OK that idea sucks really cos I don't trust anyone, so see first and second again. Info about pos labs slightly wrong but my point still stands on other points Second tisn't about me tis about new players coming into research and not be able to do even the most basic bp's ME research without the kinda time needed to research some of the more advanced bp's Third trustworthy corps yuh right oh wait you agree with me on that. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Just don't allow BPs to be researched past perfect ME efficiency. Rofl that really doesn't mean a thing because everyone researchs under perfect ME anyway bcause perfect ME on alot of things takes over a year to acheive on higher stuff its even into insane figures for example The Raven assuming you have production efficiency 5 perfect ME is 1515526 With Metallurgy 5 thats just a little over 355201 Days... Roughly 972 and a half years (seriously who the heck thought these figures up it smacks of everything time based in eve never really intended to be completed to its full extent) Thats a slightly ridiculous example but it was to prove a point most people don't research past perfect ME efficieny. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Eponine Astarte lab slots and T2 prices are both related problems. They both came out with a certain number of players in Eve. Yet as the population exploded suddenly lab slots and T2 modules/ships became rarer/higher priced due to increased demand but fixed supply. CCP has deemed it appropriate to fix T2 prices through invention and a reseeding of the lottery in order to bring supply more in line with what demand used to be. I don't see why logically they should not do the same with station lab slots That has to be the most logical well put thought out post this evening you deserve a medal for hitting the nail on the head Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.08 01:24:00 - [9] Edited by: ToxicFire on 08/01/2007 01:21:46 Originally by: Trem Sinval This has got to be the stupidest argument I have EVER heard. Witness: One Two Three This is in ONE REGION, fer peanut butter's sake. Waaa, instant gratification isn't available to me. Waaa, I have to click around for a couple of minutes to find what I need. Waaa, I can't have what I want right now. PEBKAC. Rofl flame, come back when you actually read what this threads about... this isn't about me its about the state of empire ME slots... I friggen have a pos lab access available to me when I want it. So it isn't an issue for me. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:30:00 - [10] Bringing topic to the surface again. Yesterday did an entire empire survey of ME slots... not a single free one at all minimum average que length 10 days im gonna rumble through the db later and come back with the facts of number of slots per person now and number of slots per person a year ago. Im guessing its gonna be intresting Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:05:00 - [11] Originally by: Jas Dor Originally by: Samirol or go to low sec, there are ME slots there No there aren't. The shortest wait time in the low sec regions which I play is seven days and quickly heading to nine. Pre-Kail there were free ME slots, not anymore. To be clear I included low sec stations in the survey infact I included every station in the region tis fairly easy to check these days using the sience and industry setup you goto installations click current region click material research and if your lazy click toggle full list it will show you the first available free slot, in the case of an empty slot you'll get a nice big green now showing in the case of none been available you'll see the first one to become free. But that never will because someone will que on it. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:41:00 - [12] Edited by: ToxicFire on 11/01/2007 16:42:08 And the figures are in after plodding through the db for a short while i had the info I wanted In empire there are 440 stations with labs. Thats 20 slots a lab total of 8800 slots in empire In 0.0 there are 49 stations with labs 33 of these are player built outposts and using the stats from Outpost Alert and tombs outpost devblog Those 33 player built stations is equivalent to 3 Caldari Research Outposts 3x20slots = 60 slots 9 Gallente Administrative Outpost 9x4slots = 36 Slots 21 Ammar Factory Outposts 21x2slots = 42 slots 60 + 36 + 42 = 138 Slots from player built stations Add to that 16x20slots = 320 slots for the conquerable stations Gives us a grand total of 458 slots in 0.0 Though that figure may be slightly off as this is based on the data that was current at the time of the revelations export. So empire + 0.0 is 9258 slots in the entirety of eve assuming that everyone had access to every station with slots which isn't totally true because of docking rights on outposts. So a year ago when the daily population was around 10k it would have been roughly 1 slot per person (rember there are actually alot more outposts now than there were a year ago) Thats roughly 3 slots to every 11 players, or for the lazy 1 slot shared between 3.6recuring people. Now in reality you also have account for the fact that skills allow you to have more than one slot on the go at a time with a max of 11 slots so you multiply that by the peak daily population. 11x34000=374000 Possible simultaneous slot usages at any one time assuming everyone has lab op 5 and adv lab op 5 and the pop peak is 34000. As you can see an insane number compared to the number of slots i don't even need to do a ratio to show that. Though roughly if everyone used 11 slots simultaneously eve's slottage could be taken up by just 842 people Rember though the true pop is alot higher than 34000 not everyones active at the same time. Thats something you can't really account for accurately hence why im basing these figures on peak population to show you the tip of the iceberg rather than the full extent. In short 9258 maximum available slots using stations. Which is rather alarming, I'd love to work in pos labs to this figure aswell but no one has accurate data on the number of active pos labs at the moment... looks at oveur pleadingly cmon you've got the stats we know you do. Enjoy Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:41:00 - [13] Edited by: ToxicFire on 11/01/2007 16:42:08 And the figures are in after plodding through the db for a short while i had the info I wanted In empire there are 440 stations with labs. Thats 20 slots a lab total of 8800 slots in empire In 0.0 there are 49 stations with labs 33 of these are player built outposts and using the stats from Outpost Alert and tombs outpost devblog Those 33 player built stations is equivalent to 3 Caldari Research Outposts 3x20slots = 60 slots 9 Gallente Administrative Outpost 9x4slots = 36 Slots 21 Ammar Factory Outposts 21x2slots = 42 slots 60 + 36 + 42 = 138 Slots from player built stations Add to that 16x20slots = 320 slots for the conquerable stations Gives us a grand total of 458 slots in 0.0 Though that figure may be slightly off as this is based on the data that was current at the time of the revelations export. So empire + 0.0 is 9258 slots in the entirety of eve assuming that everyone had access to every station with slots which isn't totally true because of docking rights on outposts. So a year ago when the daily population was around 10k it would have been roughly 1 slot per person (rember there are actually alot more outposts now than there were a year ago) Thats roughly 3 slots to every 11 players, or for the lazy 1 slot shared between 3.6recuring people. Now in reality you also have account for the fact that skills allow you to have more than one slot on the go at a time with a max of 11 slots so you multiply that by the peak daily population. 11x34000=374000 Possible simultaneous slot usages at any one time assuming everyone has lab op 5 and adv lab op 5 and the pop peak is 34000. As you can see an insane number compared to the number of slots i don't even need to do a ratio to show that. Though roughly if everyone used 11 slots simultaneously eve's slottage could be taken up by just 842 people Rember though the true pop is alot higher than 34000 not everyones active at the same time. Thats something you can't really account for accurately hence why im basing these figures on peak population to show you the tip of the iceberg rather than the full extent. In short 9258 maximum available slots using stations. Which is rather alarming, I'd love to work in pos labs to this figure aswell but no one has accurate data on the number of active pos labs at the moment... looks at oveur pleadingly cmon you've got the stats we know you do. Enjoy Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:52:00 - [14] Edited by: ToxicFire on 11/01/2007 16:49:13 Originally by: Quutar this also allows for more player driven business... People who have the ability can setup POS labs... and rent them out. Don't advertise please Meh it was in your sig well ok then Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Quutar Originally by: ToxicFire Don't advertise please that was my sig (disabling the sig for this comment only, mainly to be nice) ... I was actually trying to contribute to the conversation... the current ME shortage does allow for more player driven businesses, since it takes some work to be able to setup and maintain a high sec pos, it gives those that do an additional way to make money. this is true but im mainly highlighting the proportion change with the figures pos research is always good but its no real substitute for even having a ratio of 1 slot per 2 people better Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.11 17:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Kaaii Id like to know what your aversion is to using player run labs as opposed to the "state" run facilities....? Running numbers on just half the equation, is not very accurate, and miss-leading. There are 10's if not hundreds of pos owners out there with lab slots available.... So its not a question of supply, but desire to work with others that keeps you from your research... Go back and read the part of the post that explains why pos's aren't included in the figures. Just posting like that proves you didn't read the entire post Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:36:00 - [17] Think of it like any drive-thru if their customer base suddenly trippled would they stick with using one service window to serve the increased ammount of customers... now before you knew it builders would be round putting in new service windows and the company would hire more staff. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.12 12:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Wild Rho It's not so much an issue as somthing you personally don't like. People who want to research straight away have the options laid out infront of them. Faster research with no queues, the challenge is that it's expensive (relatively speaking). Those that don't have the isk or are not willing to spend it can still research, they just have to accept they need to wait. Things are not always meant to be convienient or readily available. It's part of the overall challenge. Also a good comeback to this is if thats the case why is it that a year ago you could quite easily get a ME slot :P Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.12 19:15:00 - [19] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Vasiliyan I can also see a case for creating "rapid turnaround" public labs, which can only be used for jobs shorter than 24 hours. Unfortunately, a period like 24-hours is just right for people to just put in another level every day. Queues would soon build up in those too. They wouldn't be as long as in the "full" slots, but they would probably get to around 4-5 days easily. An alternative solution in the same vein would be "junior researcher" lab slots, which could only research the first X levels of a print (with X being somewhere around 5). The majority of the benefit of research is gained in those first levels anyway, so these would let people get a foot in the door while the longer jobs of the experienced researchers (and the potentially pointless ME100+ jobs) stayed in the "senior researcher" slots. Of course, a more radical extention of that would be to apply a level cap on all NPC slots to force people to use POS labs for higher level research. Though that's not something I think is particularly desirable. As an aside, there is also a question around the number of slots in each type of lab. Not so much NPC labs, which were set like that for a reason, but POS labs. Lets face it, very few people set up a POS lab array for the 3 PE slots it gives. I suspect that in the majority of POS, labs are set up the 3 ME slots get constant use, the copying slot gets run to defray some of the POS operating cost, and the PE slots are very rarely used. This means that many 1-researcher lab POS's are actually running 21 slots, of which only 9 are really desired. One way to make POS labs more flexible, and desirable, would be to allow more choice over which types of slot are provided. Whether this means making the mobile lab configurable, or just breaking it out into different arrays for each lab type, I'm not sure. This would allow much nicer ME-only POS's based on a small tower. The concept of a configurable lab for pos's is quite an intresting once which could provide an intresting solution the question is would the ability to configure the lab cost you something extra, say something similar to reaction blue prints define what takes place within a reactor could some form of research controler bp or modification control how many lab slots a lab has and of what type perhaps even time bonuses. Have a variety of these types of "research controllers" on the market at a variety of costs, this provides CCP with another isk sink in exchange for allowing a little more flexibility in pos reseach. Alternative to that is the more simplistic approach of just allowing the number of slots to be divided how the user wants from the total number of slots. Yet another alternative same as the above just have a simple UI that allows you to change the slot make up but depending on how many of a certain slot is used changes the fuel use of the pos. Push em all into ME slots and your gonna incur and extra cost in terms of fuel. Or back to the most simple solution just scrap the existing mobile lab and break down the slot types into there own individual structures allowing you to mix and match. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/
ToxicFire Warlords Corp The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:55:00 - [20] Edited by: ToxicFire on 18/01/2007 22:51:37 Originally by: Carter Burke Originally by: ToxicFire Bumpity this issue isn't going to go away if its ignored Both POS public rental slots and the number of station ME slots needs to be sorted Bumpity I just felt it necessary to point out what a tard you appear to be, as you can't seem to wait ten days to get a job going. Whahhh. Dude, I've waited forty days for a slot. You remind me of the folks begging to halve training times. CB Biatchslap Go read the entirity of the thread before you attempt to say that cus u'll soon realise what a jackass u look like because of the multiple times i've said i've got access to a pos lab so its not an issue that affects me directly. Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/

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