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John Hades
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.08 14:34:00 -
[1]
This is dumb perhaps, but i'm curious...
Hypothetical Scenario:
I attack/kill someone in high sec, i get flagged and Concord are on the way. Then i eject from my ship.
What happens now when Concord shows up? Does Concord kill my empty ship? Kill my pod? Or sit there and twiddle their thumbs?
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"The dumber that people think you are... the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them" |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.08 14:35:00 -
[2]
They'll kill the ship.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.08 14:49:00 -
[3]
a) they still blow up the ship
b) discussing how to commit exploits on the forums is not advisable
DE
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2007.01.08 14:53:00 -
[4]
Is there any proof that beating concord is an exploit. Everybody likes to say it is, but exactly where is the officially official evidence?
If 'they' wanted concord to be unbeatable, they would be unbeatable. Seeing as they are not unbeatable, and the means to overcoming the concord problem are quite wide ranging, requiring zero hax, zero 3rd party programs and zero meta gaming, one must presume that concord avoidance, through careful planning, was deliberate.
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John Hades
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.08 14:58:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: DarkElf
b) discussing how to commit exploits on the forums is not advisable
Of course, not considering this as a potential exploit, i was merely curious as to what would happen...
But actually thinking about it, of course Concord would destroy the ship, otherwise there would be gank squads over-running high sec killing people and ejecting to save their ships :)
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"The dumber that people think you are... the more surprised they're going to be when you kill them" |
Stakhanov
Gallente
Newbies On Xstacy
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Posted - 2007.01.08 15:10:00 -
[6]
A more interesting question is : what happens if you leave your ship to board another ? Do Concord ships shoot both ships at once (therefore lower their overall DPS , more time to tank them) or do they call in reinforcements as if it were a different pirate ?
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Beowulf Scheafer
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.08 15:15:00 -
[7]
an even better question: what happens, if a m8 (not gangm8) of you take your ship before concord finished blowing it up ? ...
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Shandling
Minmatar
Disband
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Posted - 2007.01.08 15:17:00 -
[8]
If you eject out of your ship before it blows, it doesn't get blown up...
However, anybody who enters your ship will reactivate the flag and the ship will get blown up by concord... As far as I know, and the player who enters doesn't get a sec hit or a flag on them, it just wastes the ship.
I could be wrong.
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.08 15:21:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Is there any proof that beating concord is an exploit. Everybody likes to say it is, but exactly where is the officially official evidence?
If 'they' wanted concord to be unbeatable, they would be unbeatable. Seeing as they are not unbeatable, and the means to overcoming the concord problem are quite wide ranging, requiring zero hax, zero 3rd party programs and zero meta gaming, one must presume that concord avoidance, through careful planning, was deliberate.
have a look at the EULA, it says quite clearly in there that it is a classified exploit.
but yeah i have wondered exactly how that works tbh. seems everyone isn't quite 100% on it.
DE
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2007.01.08 15:36:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Tiny Tove on 08/01/2007 15:33:59
Originally by: DarkElf
have a look at the EULA, it says quite clearly in there that it is a classified exploit.
but yeah i have wondered exactly how that works tbh. seems everyone isn't quite 100% on it.
DE
See a lot of people say that. But I DID look and I did read it. and i DID copy the text into a text editor and I did search for CONCORD in case I missed it.
And I DIDN'T see any mention of what CCP will do to you if you do it.
But I did read "The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods."
How obvious, it's an EULA, not a contract. I look forward to the day that cars and other goods sold come with an EULA that say 'are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind.'
It's disgusting that software suppliers are allowed to supply goods of unmerchantable quality, circumventing prevailing laws by "not allowing" players who would complain about it to use the software.
I derailed the thread :(
But you brought up the EULA! Can we shut up about it now? Because I'm starting to hate the world again, and my therapist is not cheap.
EDIT:
My EULA attached to my client is dated:-
Updated January 19, 2005
Which could explain why it is missing. CCP's EULA. IF they don't update the one on my client, they can still enforce conditions they didn't tell me about! LOL!
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Sinlare
Gallente
Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.01.08 15:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Which could explain why it is missing. CCP's EULA. IF they don't update the one on my client, they can still enforce conditions they didn't tell me about! LOL!
No they can't and EULA's aren't above any law. |
ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.08 16:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
Edited by: Tiny Tove on 08/01/2007 15:33:59
Originally by: DarkElf
have a look at the EULA, it says quite clearly in there that it is a classified exploit.
It's not in the EULA. The FAQ's define an exploit.
Dev's have stated if you are naughty in highsec you MUST lose your ship.
Since an exploit is worming your way out of intended game mechanics being naughty and not losing ur ship is considered an exploit.
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.08 16:37:00 -
[13]
ok as i said i'm not sure if it's in there or not. guess it isn't so you'll just have to trust us that devs have said it on many occasions that it is an exploit.
DE
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Saint Bubba
Minmatar
S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.
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Posted - 2007.01.08 16:42:00 -
[14]
Originally by: DarkElf
ok as i said i'm not sure if it's in there or not. guess it isn't so you'll just have to trust us that devs have said it on many occasions that it is an exploit.
DE
I hate it when people do what you just did, seriously. Saying its "quite clearly in their" To saying "As I said im not sure if its in there or not". Just admit you provided bs :P
Sorry for this off topic post but am bored and getting really annoyed at growing number of people who do things like this.
Originally by: Sakura Nihil
That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels  .
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2007.01.08 16:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
It's not in the EULA. The FAQ's define an exploit.
Dev's have stated if you are naughty in highsec you MUST lose your ship.
Since an exploit is worming your way out of intended game mechanics being naughty and not losing ur ship is considered an exploit.
I did find the bit that says it is the players responsibility to ensure that they know what is and what is not an exploit.
I did not find anything about avoiding CONCORD in the faq.
I did not find anything about how to ensure that I know where to look for information as to what is and what is not an exploit.
I didn't see anything in the EULA about looking in the FAQ to know that I am supposed to "magic information from thin air about what is and what is not an exploit".
It's no surprise that nobody seems able to clearly prove one way or another whether concord avoidance is an exploit. But that doesn't stop them perpetuating the rumour that it is.
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Merdaneth
Amarr
Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:07:00 -
[16]
Evading Concord attacks cannot be a direct reason for a ban, otherwise CCP must mention it specifically in the EULA or some other official documentation, which it isn't. There is however official documentation about exploits, which evading Concord *might* fall under:
Originally by: CCP
The common definition of an exploit is "to use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players."
If you are about attacked by a superior force, running away is a perfectly acceptable tactic and intended use of game mechanics, regardless if the superior force is Concord or not. However, if you use it for the purpose of gaining "an unfair advantage" then you might be bannable.
Go ahead and shoot at player ships that are more than twice beyond your falloff and then evade Concord, you won't get banned, since you haven't gained an "unfair advantage", you haven't even gained *any* advantage. If you find a way to escape Concord justice while profiting from it/hurting other players, then you might get hit by the ban stick based on the general exploit definition.
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Merdaneth
Go ahead and shoot at player ships that are more than twice beyond your falloff and then evade Concord, you won't get banned, since you haven't gained an "unfair advantage", you haven't even gained *any* advantage. If you find a way to escape Concord justice while profiting from it/hurting other players, then you might get hit by the ban stick based on the general exploit definition.
Actually being able to protect your ship from a concord attack is an exploit. The purpose of the attack is to punish you for breaking the law in empire space.
If it was possible to avoid legally it would be like 0.0 in empire space. I mean there are certainly a number of times people have done it (there are even YT videos in some cases). For example people used to get suppport boosts from other players to stop concord, ccp changed it so support boosts flag the booster as well.
But to give an example. Suicide camps normally use a raven. When they attack if they were able to save that ship then the level of people getting killed would increase tenfold instead of the really expensive targets being hit in empire.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:19:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tiny Tove
It's no surprise that nobody seems able to clearly prove one way or another whether concord avoidance is an exploit. But that doesn't stop them perpetuating the rumour that it is.
The common definition of an exploit is ôto use the game mechanics in such a way as they were not intended for the purpose of gaining an unfair advantage over other players.ö Due to the ever-changing dynamics involved with maintaining a virtual, persistent world, it can sometimes be difficult or confusing to determine what might be considered an exploit.
The last part of this explains why you will never see a full list of exploits (Add to that you'd have people going out of their way to exploit)
The other nice thing about the last part of the above is that it is a pretty effective "catch-all" statement. Consider it a rumour if you like. I consider it an iron clad fact. If you aggress somebody illegally in highsec and don't die to Concord you are exploiting. If somebody petitions you then you will be punished. Not maybe / can be punished but will be punsihed.
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DarkElf
Caldari
DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:26:00 -
[19]
ok jees bubba take a frickin chill pill ffs i meant to put that i wasn't sure and forgot to type it that's all. blimey.
And this argument is very annoying. just trust what ppl are telling u. it is an exploit. it says somewhere that it is and you have been told here it is and devs are constantly saying that if u commit a crime in high sec and do not lose ur ship for it then you are exploiting. we're not just carebears lying to u so u don't come to jita and gank our barges.
can a dev pls come in here and provide them with the clarification they so desire
DE
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Mira deVorsha
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
The last part of this explains why you will never see a full list of exploits (Add to that you'd have people going out of their way to exploit)
If in doubt page a GM and ask them beforehand.
Quote:
Consider it a rumour if you like. I consider it an iron clad fact. If you aggress somebody illegally in highsec and don't die to Concord you are exploiting.
Its not a rumour, searching on the forums will find ccp/isd mention it as well as people complaining about being threatened/banned for doing it.
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Tiny Tove
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:35:00 -
[21]
Exactly Merdaneth.
Additionally, in a suicide gank, the cost of the ships is a written off cost because you expect to lose them. But those costs are usually less than 1% of your expected gain from losing it. One can afford to fail dozens of ganks from a single successful gank
With that in mind, if it does not matter if you lose, then it can not matter if you keep it, you still have not gained an unfair advantage.
The chances of beating concord, and the range of ships that could do it, and the circumstances required to pull it off, are so remote, I'd rather suspect you get a congratulatory email from CCP rather than a ban.
Then they'd fix the loop hole.
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Paari Cuman
World Order
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:40:00 -
[22]
My mom always used to say, "Don't run from the COPS, even if you did something bad, or they'll shoot you." I don't think that applies here.
But if yer a fast lil frigate, you can run away from CONCORD depending on the lag and system. But eventually it will catch up with you and you can't really dock or leave system or goto a safespot (because the turrets will get you or they'll show up at the safespot.)
What kind of probes they got? Can I have some?
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC.
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:40:00 -
[23]
Exploit, bannable offense.
I direct your attention to this thread.
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Sean Dillon
Caldari
FM Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:40:00 -
[24]
When you eject from your ship its still marked as your own ship. For that reason when you kill an empty shutle somewhere in low sec or in 0.0 you still get a killmail from the guy that left it their. For that same reason, the ejected ship is still yours when your criminal flagged so it pops.
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Tirg
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.01.08 17:44:00 -
[25]
If you remember, we had a problem with an exploit a few months ago, wherein players would warp away from CONCORD until CONCORD lost interest. It was clasified an exploit, and fixed. What you are asking is indeed an exploit ( if it were possible, that is). *click*. If you have any further questions, please email us at ccpgames.com.
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