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Banana BoatRider	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:32:00 - [31] from one of the few people who flys a mother it may be hard to kill us but it isnt imposible try bumping it or bringing drones or wrecks in the way. My wyvern gets stuck on everything. Then to killing it one Danel Jackson in siege mode would have been able to take me out easly if he would have been able to scramble me. And for how much work you have to do to get a mothership on tq or sis is ridiculus.
Zakru Anul Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 13:15:00 - [32] One thing i do think needs a change is the whole point that it is guarded from EW, now when i check the market a cloaking system was EW. so why can a mother ship or a titan cloak? 1 there HUGE ships. something that large cloaked or not would show up on some type of scanner. 2. there EW systems. what poeple say about that?
Cosmic Flame Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.22 15:31:00 - [33] Originally by: The Armin 20 ish battleships nanoed up with a mwd and heavy neutralizers should do it, oh and a couple of dreads to do the dmg.. Bumpmobiles ftw, run off with the cap so he can't jump ;P So then you are saying it would also be ok for 2-3 cheaply fitted tech 1 frigates to kill an expensive Tier 3 Battleship, for example? Hmmm.... Motherships don't need nerfing. Tbh, from what i've heard/read, they need/needed fixing as some of their game mechanics are/were broken and not working right.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.01.22 17:27:00 - [34] Yes a Mothership is immune to EW, but remember one thing, it is a drone ship only. It can not attack back unless it uses drones/fighters so here's something, don't want it running then use a nos ship to make it so you use up what, the 15% they have and use the rest of your forces to pop fighters and use light drones to pop his drones and frigs to pop his light drones. Wow, now you have a ship with no guns, and no drones worth close to hald a Outpost that you can just wait for the tank to run out, from you nosin no real cap regin, and let the dreads seige mode letting the frigs ram into it so he can't move, as you know seige dreads can't hit **** if it moves.
Deva Blackfire Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.22 22:49:00 - [35] Originally by: Abathur You answered your own question - there is nothing 'normal' about Motherships. So-called Super Capital ships are purposefully designed to be statements of power. Flying them should reward the effort put into building them. Not a problem if there are 3-5 "supercapitals" in game. Problems start when every corp has one - and 30 bil price tag is NOT much for decently sized corp.
Fuujin Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.01.23 00:39:00 - [36] To the poster above: You must be thinking titans if you only want a handfull in game, not motherships. And come on be a little realistic. While yes, a medium sized corp won't have much trouble funding one, it still doesn't make it feasible or a great idea. 30 bil is still 30 bil and that's for a single ship.
Ozzman Cometh Amarr AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.04.21 06:43:00 - [37] Edited by: Ozzman Cometh on 21/04/2007 06:41:26 Edited by: Ozzman Cometh on 21/04/2007 06:40:34 Originally by: MrRx7 I think its pretty clear you've never flown one, They have this feature for a reason....we're talking about a 25b+mods expense here, its bad enought you can only refit in systems with capital maintence arrays. I see no point in gimping them in this mannor. Well, clearly you have never been system camped by a single ship, when there your best chance to make him leave is to try to scare it away, let alone kill it. These things have to have a realistic way to be taken down. Think about it, if a small-to-medium alliance manages to **** off a good sized-alliance with a couple motherships, there is little chance they will be able to kill it without like ten or fifteen dreads and a LOT of people to throw at it.
DeadRow Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.04.21 10:20:00 - [38] Originally by: CCP Abathur There are plans in the works to update the propulsion jamming system to something a bit saner but I seriously doubt that it will alter this aspect of Motherships and Titans. They can be killed but it would require a plan. I imagine such a plan would involve lots of Interdictors, NOS and bringing in a few cap ships of your own to take it out. You say dictors, but the OP is talking about low sec, where (afaik at least) dictors are useless. Unless theres a plan in the works to allow them in low/hi sec?.. /DeadRow snip - signature removed, please email us with a link if you wish to know why. -Ivan K
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.04.21 15:02:00 - [39] Right now using: 3x Heavy diminishing, 1x heavy unstable, 1x medium diminishing and 1x medium instable will drain 72cap a sec. Which would Drain 25% in roughly 5min if no cap regenerated. From cap regin being close to 100cap a second you would need three ships to do it in a timly mannor. Using a simulator 216 cap drained per second would reduce a Aeon[using 3x t2 cap rechargers + 2x t2 cap power replays] to 74% capacity in about 71 seconds. Effectivly do take out a MS then you would need 4 of these ships, I used a Domi as the base ship for these nos from it's drone capabilities to assist in the destrution of fighters or use use of five heavy repairers on the fighters to the fellow nos ships. 5 T2 Ogre from a domi dorne pilot with max skills can kill a average fighter in 30 seconds after drones make contact, THdmg being the weakest Fighter resistance.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.04.21 19:57:00 - [40] Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 21/04/2007 19:54:15 Originally by: TomParad0x Why should a simple, cheap mod be able to basically royally screw a very very expensive ship? Have to agree with this sentiment, even as it applies to battleships. Bring back the idea of mag pulse or whatever it was. -AS
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Captain Morgan Society Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.22 06:08:00 - [41] Quote: Right now using: 3x Heavy diminishing, 1x heavy unstable, 1x medium diminishing and 1x medium instable will drain 72cap a sec. Which would Drain 25% in roughly 5min if no cap regenerated. From cap regin being close to 100cap a second you would need three ships to do it in a timly mannor. Using a simulator 216 cap drained per second would reduce a Aeon[using 3x t2 cap rechargers + 2x t2 cap power replays] to 74% capacity in about 71 seconds. The reality is far more sickening than this. If the pilot was determined to be invulnerable and invested in the best cap equipment money could buy, they could get a Nyx to 12.27 s recharge. That's a peak of about 17,000 energy per second (albeit best-case) they could get. It would take 1700 heavy nos to deplete the mothership's cap (that's a little shy [283.3] of 300 battleships each with 6 heavy nos) to keep its cap toast. It would take maybe 600-800 heavy nos to prevent it from being able to reach the cap necessary for a jump, a "more reasonable" 100 bs fitted with best named heavy nos, or "only" 240 heavy neuts for a total of 40 neut bs. Then you need to get through its impressive hitpoints while taking a beating from its fighters and smartbombs. And oh yeah, you can't scramble it and your interdictors can't hold it down because it smartbombs their bubbles. Enjoy! P.S. I think there's a Ragnarok pilot out there somewhere that's doing this, or so rumor says. It doesn't even have to smartbomb the bubbles, since it can jump right out of the bubble anyway!
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.04.22 18:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Quote: Right now using: 3x Heavy diminishing, 1x heavy unstable, 1x medium diminishing and 1x medium instable will drain 72cap a sec. Which would Drain 25% in roughly 5min if no cap regenerated. From cap regin being close to 100cap a second you would need three ships to do it in a timly mannor. Using a simulator 216 cap drained per second would reduce a Aeon[using 3x t2 cap rechargers + 2x t2 cap power replays] to 74% capacity in about 71 seconds. The reality is far more sickening than this. If the pilot was determined to be invulnerable and invested in the best cap equipment money could buy, they could get a Nyx to 12.27 s recharge. That's a peak of about 17,000 energy per second (albeit best-case) they could get. It would take 1700 heavy nos to deplete the mothership's cap (that's a little shy [283.3] of 300 battleships each with 6 heavy nos) to keep its cap toast. It would take maybe 600-800 heavy nos to prevent it from being able to reach the cap necessary for a jump, a "more reasonable" 100 bs fitted with best named heavy nos, or "only" 240 heavy neuts for a total of 40 neut bs. Then you need to get through its impressive hitpoints while taking a beating from its fighters and smartbombs. And oh yeah, you can't scramble it and your interdictors can't hold it down because it smartbombs their bubbles. Enjoy! P.S. I think there's a Ragnarok pilot out there somewhere that's doing this, or so rumor says. It doesn't even have to smartbomb the bubbles, since it can jump right out of the bubble anyway! Umm the purpose was to get it below 75% so it can just leave system. As for killing missiles ships in align ships as well as ramming it. As for fighters I said the nos ships would help take out fighters quickly but tht is the job for the gank ships and would uave other ships sending remote rep to them as they are key give it a moment after the end of fighter zerg befor drone zerg, don't kill MS untill fighters/drones are dead then focus on it heavly, as some said dreads but i wounder about their aim on seige if the missile and ramming would keep it still enough.
Vmir Gallahasen Gallente Captain Morgan Society Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.22 19:42:00 - [43] Quote: Umm the purpose was to get it below 75% so it can just leave system. As for killing missiles ships in align ships as well as ramming it. That's right, you need approximately 600 heavy nos give or take to prevent it from reaching 75% cap. You would need a little less than 1700 heavy nos to break its peak recharge rate at 33% cap roughly, and you need to destroy 25% of its total cap in the amount of time it takes their alt to open a cyno and the mom pilot to select jump... Also, the main problem really isn't the fighters. A good mothership pilot will send out waves and waves and WAVES of heavy drones or webber drones to stop those from ramming him (which is actually pretty difficult to do btw, especially when everybody's client gets desync'ed) and the smartbombs will take care of any interdiction spheres. About the dreads, I'm not sure. We've never been able to hold down a mothership long enough to try.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.04.22 19:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Vmir Gallahasen Quote: Umm the purpose was to get it below 75% so it can just leave system. As for killing missiles ships in align ships as well as ramming it. That's right, you need approximately 600 heavy nos give or take to prevent it from reaching 75% cap. You would need a little less than 1700 heavy nos to break its peak recharge rate at 33% cap roughly, and you need to destroy 25% of its total cap in the amount of time it takes their alt to open a cyno and the mom pilot to select jump... Also, the main problem really isn't the fighters. A good mothership pilot will send out waves and waves and WAVES of heavy drones or webber drones to stop those from ramming him (which is actually pretty difficult to do btw, especially when everybody's client gets desync'ed) and the smartbombs will take care of any interdiction spheres. About the dreads, I'm not sure. We've never been able to hold down a mothership long enough to try. show such a set up where it is needed
Ikar Kaltin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.22 20:18:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Abathur There are plans in the works to update the propulsion jamming system to something a bit saner but I seriously doubt that it will alter this aspect of Motherships and Titans. They can be killed but it would require a plan. I imagine such a plan would involve lots of Interdictors, NOS and bringing in a few cap ships of your own to take it out. Quote: scramblers works whit points, anny normal ships have 1 point You answered your own question - there is nothing 'normal' about Motherships. So-called Super Capital ships are purposefully designed to be statements of power. Flying them should reward the effort put into building them. Yes motherships are killable with a plan. In 0.0 . This is not possible in low sec, which is what annoys so many people. It makes motherships the "I WIN" button of low sec piracy. There needs to be something done which allows motherships to be held down in low sec, or not allowed in low sec altogether.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.04.22 21:05:00 - [46] Originally by: Ikar Kaltin Originally by: CCP Abathur There are plans in the works to update the propulsion jamming system to something a bit saner but I seriously doubt that it will alter this aspect of Motherships and Titans. They can be killed but it would require a plan. I imagine such a plan would involve lots of Interdictors, NOS and bringing in a few cap ships of your own to take it out. Quote: scramblers works whit points, anny normal ships have 1 point You answered your own question - there is nothing 'normal' about Motherships. So-called Super Capital ships are purposefully designed to be statements of power. Flying them should reward the effort put into building them. Yes motherships are killable with a plan. In 0.0 . This is not possible in low sec, which is what annoys so many people. It makes motherships the "I WIN" button of low sec piracy. There needs to be something done which allows motherships to be held down in low sec, or not allowed in low sec altogether. Quick question, why are MS allowed in low sec in the first place when titans are not?
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.04.22 21:54:00 - [47] Originally by: Vincent Almasy Quick question, why are MS allowed in low sec in the first place when titans are not? Titans can enter lowsec, they just cannot fire the doomsday.
iqplayer Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.04.22 22:53:00 - [48] Edited by: iqplayer on 22/04/2007 22:52:13 Originally by: CCP Abathur There are plans in the works to update the propulsion jamming system to something a bit saner but I seriously doubt that it will alter this aspect of Motherships and Titans. They can be killed but it would require a plan. I imagine such a plan would involve lots of Interdictors, NOS and bringing in a few cap ships of your own to take it out. Quote: scramblers works whit points, anny normal ships have 1 point You answered your own question - there is nothing 'normal' about Motherships. So-called Super Capital ships are purposefully designed to be statements of power. Flying them should reward the effort put into building them. My biggest problem with this is two fold - I first totally disagree about Motherships being normal. They are a Tech 1 item that anyone can build with the appropriate amount of effort. I keep seeing people quote a 'price' of 25-30 Billion, but that's simply not true; the base mineral cost is about 13 billion, and the requirements to build them highly favor building them inside an allinace. The build cost is not high enough to serve as an unusual barrier, they don't require extra skils, and the buildup of MS already on TQ should help prove this. Since they are so difficult to kill, how long will it be before half of Eve is piloting one? Now, I have no problem with them being difficult to kill. Nor with needing a plan to kill. I do have a problem with the deck being stacked completely against the fleet that is trying to plan to kill a MS. MS receive complete invulnerability against Jamming and Dampening. Complete immunity against webbing. Nearly complete immunity against scrambling, with the only thing that can scramble them being a warp disruption probe - well, assuming that the MS didn't hit warp before the probe was launched. All it takes is one second of lapse for a MS to hit warp, and any plan is nullified. Where are it's disadvantages? It can carry all sizes of drones, so it can take on anything from frigates to battleships. Other ships have tradeoffs to their exceptional abilities and 'invulnerabilities', like the Dread's inability to move while it gets a damage bonus and EW immunity. But the best proof I can come up with that MS in particular, and Titans to an extent, are out of whack is the way that they are used. It has become popular and widely publicized to use a solo MS to take on multiple enemy ships. Even large fleets with well setup plans struggle to take down a MS. It's the very survival rate of these ships used in such situations that should make it very obvious that there is a problem. Supercapitals should require a supporting fleet! I'm not calling for them to be nerfed into oblivion, I'm calling for them to be brought into line with the rest of Eve.
Icome4u IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.04.23 03:14:00 - [49] Originally by: iqplayer Edited by: iqplayer on 22/04/2007 22:52:13 bla bla bla... Hmm clearly you haven't looked into buying a MS. If you don't have sovereignty you can't even build one. The mats + resources to actualy buy one is huge, easily over 20 billion isk. Now if you don't have a place to build one, you have to ask a Alliance to make you one. They charge between 10-15 billion isk, JUST to build you one. Then add the mats, so thats roughly 25-30 billion isk to build one. 20 billion is considered cheap for a MS. THEN add all the officer gear you will use on it... Yeah MS are extremely hard/expensive to build. Oh and you need a carrier/capital array to be able to fit/rig it. So NO not even half or 1/10th of EVE will EVER own a MS. They are very rare, very expensive, a pain in the ass to kill and they were ment to be like that. Just b/c something is very powerful it doesn't mean it needs to be nerfed. The DDD is what just it is, mass pwnage, the MS is what it is, a MOTHERSHIP, supercapital ship that was MENT to be a huge pain to kill. MS doesn't need to be nerf, if anything boost them/fighters to help MS and carriers.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.04.23 07:09:00 - [50] Bumping Battleships and bubbles and NOS+Neut hold motherships down. A pain, but can't be helped. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Hawk Fireblade	Posted - 2007.04.23 12:38:00 - [51] TBH I find the arguments for nerfing rather ridiculous. Like many here have stated first go forth purchase all the bpo's get all the minerals and build the compo's, spend a good year training to be really good in one, go fly it in combat then come back and say it needs nerfing. To say the effort to make these monsters is astronomical is a grave understatement. Am I for the idea that a 10mil crusier can warp scram a ship costing 10's of billions of isk and thousands of man hours to gain, erm nope sorry uh uh, no way. Like the man said use a plan. :)
SumYungGai	Posted - 2007.04.23 15:32:00 - [52] I really, honestly, do not give to flying spits how much it costs or how long you spent training for them. ships should be strong in their bailiwick, and weak somewhere else. anywhere. pick something. give the damn things *A* weakness.
iqplayer Caldari Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:25:00 - [53] To the guy who states I must never have looked into buying one - 1) You have no idea what my experience is, and 2) I think it's quite plain that game mechanics prefer them to be built as opposed to bought. They do require some planning and effort to build - ie, teamwork. But is that really a justification for making them a solo gank ship, just because they required planning to build? Why should the fleet trying to kill the MS be the only side needing a plan? Why doesn't the MS pilot need to put some effort into organizing things? Supercapitals should be fleet ships. Using them without a support fleet should leave them vulnerable. In their current incarnation, they don't - and all you have to do is look at a few killboards and alliance forum posts to see that. I don't object to them being powerful, or having special abilities. I just think that their special abilities should be balanced by something else. Part of the beauty of Eve is that everything is vulnerable. Why should supercapitals be any different?
gordon cain Minmatar x13 Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.23 16:27:00 - [54] Then at least make sure it cant go to low-sec area. Not being able to do anything against a MS in low-sec is just stupid. Gordon cain

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