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Red Khalmer Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 56	Posted - 2015.11.21 13:48:18 - [1] - Quote *STATE OF ALERT - WARZONE RISKANALYSIS* *SECURED TRANSMISSION UPLINK* Hello Capsuleers. This comes as a security message for all people in following regions. The Bleak Lands Heimatar Devoid Sinq laison Metropolis The Minmatar-Amarr Warzone has been under heavy fighting as of late as we the matari are pushing out the slavers system by system. But during this time we in the Secret service has noticed drastic changes just over the last month's in the Amarr militia. We have now been able to spot multiple Blood Raider ships and Blood raider skins inside fleets we encounter against the Amarr. Their terminology has also changed. They no longer use the "Amarr Victor" to the extent they used before and we have noted some even saying "BLOOD FOR THE RED GOD" in local system communications. The majority of ones we have been able to identify flying these ships have been apart of the Alliance "Habitual Chaos". Those are also the main battleforce of the 24th with most often being half of the active slaver fleets. On further looking at the people inside their Alliance we see that "Amarrian Battlemonks" is apart of the corporation lineup. Which we have identified them (along with others) to be an active Blood Raider entity. This whole ordeal was left unconfirmed until we got intel that some of the people in Habitual Chaos are indeed supporters of the blood cult. What we are suprised over is how fast the conversion over to the red faith has been. We can only speculate on what is the cause but from what it seems is that the influence of Edeity and his kin has converted some Amarrians into the red faith. We now estimates that percentages to 15% up all the way up to 50% of the active Amarrian Pilots in the warzone are either Blood Raider supporters or active Blood Raiders. This does not bode well for those captured by Amarrian ships out in the warzone and I recommend if you are captured to fight to the last man rather than surrender to the slavers. As shackles might not be the only thing that can happen to those that do get captured.
Foley Aberas Jones Huogikku Corporation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 587	Posted - 2015.11.21 13:53:17 - [2] - Quote Dis gon be gud
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 556	Posted - 2015.11.21 14:50:17 - [3] - Quote The Golden Age, the age of the Amarr Empire, is coming to an end. A new Blood Age is beginning. This Habitual Chaos alliance is doubtless the vanguard of a new wave of Amarr-Blood Raider religious syncretism, syncretism that will culminate in the rise of a new Amarr Blood Raider-Empire Covenant before which all the cluster will be brought to heel. May it come soon. Lead us to glory and victory, Habitual Chaos. Amen. Amarr Victor.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 767	Posted - 2015.11.21 15:04:13 - [4] - Quote If they were captured by proper Amarr combatants they would be more than likely enslaved. Which is worse? A life of servitude or death? I'm not saying death by Sani Sabik is a worthy death, I'm more so saying fighting to the last man should be a given no matter who the 24IC can scrape together. If you don't mind me asking what's ROMSS' stance on groups such as Sanguis Inceptum, a Sani Sabik aligned corporation led by Kalo Askold, currently enlisted in the Matari Militia? While I can't say I don't know their corporation's inner workings I will say I have flown in combat numerous times and can attest to their loyalty to our cause.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 767	Posted - 2015.11.21 15:05:34 - [5] - Quote Nauplius wrote: The Golden Age, the age of the Amarr Empire, is coming to an end. A new Blood Age is beginning. This Habitual Chaos alliance is doubtless the vanguard of a new wave of Amarr-Blood Raider religious syncretism, syncretism that will culminate in the rise of a new Amarr Blood Raider-Empire Covenant before which all the cluster will be brought to heel. May it come soon. Lead us to glory and victory, Habitual Chaos. Amen. Amarr Victor. Haven't they shot at you along with PIE?
Tamiroth 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 148	Posted - 2015.11.21 18:36:55 - [6] - Quote Nauplius wrote: The Golden Age, the age of the Amarr Empire, is coming to an end. A new Blood Age is beginning. This Habitual Chaos alliance is doubtless the vanguard of a new wave of Amarr-Blood Raider religious syncretism, syncretism that will culminate in the rise of a new Amarr Blood Raider-Empire Covenant before which all the cluster will be brought to heel. The rumors are that CONCORD has finally revoked Funk's capsuleer license for the untold numbers of crimes she committed. Beware, Nauplius, instead of the coming of a "Blood Age", you may as well be the next in line.
Mitara Newelle PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 273	Posted - 2015.11.21 18:45:37 - [7] - Quote You would do the cluster a favor by naming the heretics and listing their offenses.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1639	Posted - 2015.11.21 19:49:26 - [8] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: If they were captured by proper Amarr combatants they would be more than likely enslaved. Which is worse? A life of servitude or death? You can escape or be rescued from one of those.
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 556	Posted - 2015.11.21 21:28:08 - [9] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Nauplius wrote: The Golden Age, the age of the Amarr Empire, is coming to an end. A new Blood Age is beginning. This Habitual Chaos alliance is doubtless the vanguard of a new wave of Amarr-Blood Raider religious syncretism, syncretism that will culminate in the rise of a new Amarr Blood Raider-Empire Covenant before which all the cluster will be brought to heel. May it come soon. Lead us to glory and victory, Habitual Chaos. Amen. Amarr Victor. Haven't they shot at you along with PIE? The turning of the Age from the Golden Age to the Blood Age is a process not yet complete. In these confusing times, loyalties are in transition.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 767	Posted - 2015.11.21 21:36:43 - [10] - Quote Nauplius wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Nauplius wrote: The Golden Age, the age of the Amarr Empire, is coming to an end. A new Blood Age is beginning. This Habitual Chaos alliance is doubtless the vanguard of a new wave of Amarr-Blood Raider religious syncretism, syncretism that will culminate in the rise of a new Amarr Blood Raider-Empire Covenant before which all the cluster will be brought to heel. May it come soon. Lead us to glory and victory, Habitual Chaos. Amen. Amarr Victor. Haven't they shot at you along with PIE? The turning of the Age from the Golden Age to the Blood Age is a process not yet complete. In these confusing times, loyalties are in transition. Hmm.... Ya I guess that makes sense.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 767	Posted - 2015.11.21 21:38:02 - [11] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: If they were captured by proper Amarr combatants they would be more than likely enslaved. Which is worse? A life of servitude or death? You can escape or be rescued from one of those. Escaping from Sani Sabik combatants is possible too. Both however are unlikely....
Red Khalmer Minmatar Secret Service Ushra'Khan 59	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:24:20 - [12] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: If they were captured by proper Amarr combatants they would be more than likely enslaved. Which is worse? A life of servitude or death? I'm not saying death by Sani Sabik is a worthy death, I'm more so saying fighting to the last man should be a given no matter who the 24IC can scrape together. If you don't mind me asking what's ROMSS' stance on groups such as Sanguis Inceptum, a Sani Sabik aligned corporation led by Kalo Askold, currently enlisted in the Matari Militia? While I can't say I don't know their corporation's inner workings I will say I have flown in combat numerous times and can attest to their loyalty to our cause. I agree and I would rather fight to my last breath than be captured by the 24IC. But not all matari are capsuleers, and not all the matari has the same resolve as you and I have. We are well aware of Sanguis Inceptum and the Sani Sabik. They are less than >1% of the active pilots and have no real impact on the Tribal liberation force or our operations. From what we have seen they are passive in their faith and our kin are left unaffected by their presence. These people have also not grown in numbers for the past year. In their current form they pose no major threat to the Minmatar people or the TLF. If necessary actions should ever be made against the Sani Sabik. Those discussions will be in private conversations and not here on IGS.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 767	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:35:48 - [13] - Quote Red Khalmer wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: If they were captured by proper Amarr combatants they would be more than likely enslaved. Which is worse? A life of servitude or death? I'm not saying death by Sani Sabik is a worthy death, I'm more so saying fighting to the last man should be a given no matter who the 24IC can scrape together. If you don't mind me asking what's ROMSS' stance on groups such as Sanguis Inceptum, a Sani Sabik aligned corporation led by Kalo Askold, currently enlisted in the Matari Militia? While I can't say I don't know their corporation's inner workings I will say I have flown in combat numerous times and can attest to their loyalty to our cause. I agree and I would rather fight to my last breath than be captured by the 24IC. But not all matari are capsuleers, and not all the matari has the same resolve as you and I have. We are well aware of Sanguis Inceptum and the Sani Sabik. They are less than >1% of the active pilots and have no real impact on the Tribal liberation force or our operations. From what we have seen they are passive in their faith and our kin are left unaffected by their presence. These people have also not grown in numbers for the past year. In their current form they pose no major threat to the Minmatar people or the TLF. If necessary actions should ever be made against the Sani Sabik. Those discussions will be in private conversations and not here on IGS. I'm glad to hear they aren't getting any real negativity thrown at them. Like I said before, religious zealotry aside they do seem to fight for us instead of just for the blooders. Matari Victor!
Valerie Valate Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 1105	Posted - 2015.11.22 09:04:49 - [14] - Quote Long, cryptic post littered with Scripture quotes, that demonstrates why the Minmatar are Wrong, the 24 IC are Wrong, and the importance of distinguishing between Covenant and non-Covenant ships. Short, humorous addendum, something something, Blood Raiders didn't seem to bother the Minmatar before, when they attacked Imperial planets, and the Republic made an alliance offer to them in return for Insorum, something something. It's not like you people would have read it anyway. SO THERE ! Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2232	Posted - 2015.11.22 12:29:37 - [15] - Quote And I see Minmatar rhetoric hasn't changed. Instead of attacking real slavers - Sansha Nation, who enslave to kill and turn into flesh puppets anyone they encounter, the Tribals attack peaceful Empire citizens, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1639	Posted - 2015.11.22 13:59:51 - [16] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: And I see Minmatar rhetoric hasn't changed. Instead of attacking real slavers - Sansha Nation, who enslave to kill and turn into flesh puppets anyone they encounter, the Tribals attack peaceful Empire citizens, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war. And the innocent children of any slave, no matter how many generations back you have to go to find those 'criminals and prisoners of war'.
Darkon Gatland The Ashen Lion Syndicate 22	Posted - 2015.11.22 14:57:57 - [17] - Quote The Blood Raiders are heretics, their filth will be wiped away from our Empire.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2234	Posted - 2015.11.22 15:22:24 - [18] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: And I see Minmatar rhetoric hasn't changed. Instead of attacking real slavers - Sansha Nation, who enslave to kill and turn into flesh puppets anyone they encounter, the Tribals attack peaceful Empire citizens, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war. And the innocent children of any slave, no matter how many generations back you have to go to find those 'criminals and prisoners of war'. Arrendis, you are really breaking all limits of stupidity. They were BORN slaves, not enslaved. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1641	Posted - 2015.11.22 16:04:02 - [19] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: And I see Minmatar rhetoric hasn't changed. Instead of attacking real slavers - Sansha Nation, who enslave to kill and turn into flesh puppets anyone they encounter, the Tribals attack peaceful Empire citizens, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war. And the innocent children of any slave, no matter how many generations back you have to go to find those 'criminals and prisoners of war'. Arrendis, you are really breaking all limits of stupidity. They were BORN slaves, not enslaved. No-one is born a slave. They are enslaved when the paperwork is processed.
Cain Aloga Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 153	Posted - 2015.11.22 16:06:32 - [20] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Arrendis wrote: Diana Kim wrote: And I see Minmatar rhetoric hasn't changed. Instead of attacking real slavers - Sansha Nation, who enslave to kill and turn into flesh puppets anyone they encounter, the Tribals attack peaceful Empire citizens, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war. And the innocent children of any slave, no matter how many generations back you have to go to find those 'criminals and prisoners of war'. Arrendis, you are really breaking all limits of stupidity. They were BORN slaves, not enslaved. What will you do Miss Kim, when they come to enslave you? While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 768	Posted - 2015.11.22 16:14:51 - [21] - Quote Valerie Valate wrote: Long, cryptic post littered with Scripture quotes, that demonstrates why the Minmatar are Wrong, the 24 IC are Wrong, and the importance of distinguishing between Covenant and non-Covenant ships. Short, humorous addendum, something something, Blood Raiders didn't seem to bother the Minmatar before, when they attacked Imperial planets, and the Republic made an alliance offer to them in return for Insorum, something something. It's not like you people would have read it anyway. SO THERE ! Would it be bad if I said minus the annoying scripture quotes I would kinda like to read that? What can I say, I like hearing the "other sides" opinions. Perspective and all that....
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 768	Posted - 2015.11.22 16:45:43 - [22] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: And I see Minmatar rhetoric hasn't changed. Instead of attacking real slavers - Sansha Nation, who enslave to kill and turn into flesh puppets anyone they encounter, the Tribals attack peaceful Empire citizens, who enslave only criminals and prisoners of war. And I see Kim's irrelevant opinion about Matari and/or Amarrian affairs still hasn't changed Instead of seeing the glass for what it is, sees the world as part of it. It's not like we haven't joined forces against the "real enslavers" with our former enslavers before. DON'T BE SILLY!!! Cain Aloga wrote: What will you do Miss Kim, when they come to enslave you? Or will you willing convert and forsake you allegiance to the Caldari, for ultimately that is your allies goal. Spin it into "a brave fight in the caldari spirit" "Being adaptable to any situation is the mark of a true caldari," "Heth would approve of it," or "It would improve Caldari/Amarr relations if we all shared a religion." She would have some brave sounding spin on it to cover up their mistake in trusting the reclaiming empire. Deitra Vess's Message to the Amarr Empire wrote: PLEASE Amarr!!! Not the rest of the caldari but just enslave Diana Kim!!!!!!! Please?? I'll convert myself peacefully for the greater good of all the Cluster if you just enslave her and stick her on a mining colony in the middle of nowhere. With or without: Vitoxin, Chip, or any other control device you can think of used on her. As long as she has no way to communicate anymore...
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2235	Posted - 2015.11.22 16:48:32 - [23] - Quote Cain Aloga wrote: What will you do Miss Kim, when they come to enslave you? Or will you willing convert and forsake you allegiance to the Caldari, for ultimately that is your allies goal. How dare you assume me, a Caldari Officer, would be a criminal or would be fighting against our allies?! Your insolence is appaling and beyond any civility standards. Shame on you. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5792	Posted - 2015.11.22 19:14:20 - [24] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Cain Aloga wrote: What will you do Miss Kim, when they come to enslave you? Or will you willing convert and forsake you allegiance to the Caldari, for ultimately that is your allies goal. How dare you assume me, a Caldari Officer, would be a criminal or would be fighting against our allies?! Your insolence is appaling and beyond any civility standards. Shame on you. The man asked you what you would do if the Amarrians expanded the active part of the 24th Imperial Crusade to include Caldari space, Commander Kim. He asked what you would do if they started reclaiming Caldari citizens by force, instead of through soft power, as they do now. I'd like to hear your answer to that question, too. It shouldn't be a difficult question to answer. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2235	Posted - 2015.11.22 19:56:38 - [25] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: The man asked you what you would do if the Amarrians expanded the active part of the 24th Imperial Crusade to include Caldari space, Commander Kim. He asked what you would do if they started reclaiming Caldari citizens by force, instead of through soft power, as they do now. I'd like to hear your answer to that question, too. It shouldn't be a difficult question to answer. They would get none. We aren't weak minmatars, honorable Caldari prefers death to coward surrender to enemy to serve them as slaves. Have you noticed that between all four major nations only Caldari hasn't participated in slave relations? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Goldfinch Order of Jamyl 572	Posted - 2015.11.22 23:37:04 - [26] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: The man asked you what you would do if the Amarrians expanded the active part of the 24th Imperial Crusade to include Caldari space, Commander Kim. He asked what you would do if they started reclaiming Caldari citizens by force, instead of through soft power, as they do now. I'd like to hear your answer to that question, too. It shouldn't be a difficult question to answer. We find it surprising that a true-to-form soldier such as yourself would resort to baseless speculation. Why, tell us more about the assumptions you'd like to make about Amarr today based on stories you've read in the history books. Officer Kim respects her allies enough not to fall into that trap. As for "soft power", if a man chooses to surrender to God of his own will that act should be taken in perspective. Amarr Holderships change their practices to profit from Caldari Corporate efficiencies. The Amarr adopt your clothing, consume your television shows, and drink your sodas. There is no nefarious game of "soft power" afoot. Two cultures joined together as allies do as friends do. They adopt each other's ways and at the same time they fight to keep their uniqueness and individuality. It seems like a shame you have to paint this cultural exchange as a Caldari net loss or an Amarr net gain. \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on eve-backstage)
Cain Aloga Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 153	Posted - 2015.11.23 01:58:14 - [27] - Quote Goldfinch wrote: We find it surprising that a true-to-form soldier such as yourself would resort to baseless speculation. Why, tell us more about the assumptions you'd like to make about Amarr today based on stories you've read in the history books. Officer Kim respects her allies enough not to fall into that trap. As for "soft power", if a man chooses to surrender to God of his own will that act should be taken in perspective. Amarr Holderships change their practices to profit from Caldari Corporate efficiencies. The Amarr adopt your clothing, consume your television shows, and drink your sodas. There is no nefarious game of "soft power" afoot. Two cultures joined together as allies do as friends do. They adopt each other's ways and at the same time they fight to keep their uniqueness and individuality. It seems like a shame you have to paint this cultural exchange as a Caldari net loss or an Amarr net gain. Is the reclamation not a central tenant of your Faith? Were you not commanded by your god to bring all peoples to his faith? While the method of the reclamation may evolve over time and be subject to debate, The Amarr Empire has always held the reclamation as one its goals. While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5797	Posted - 2015.11.23 03:15:30 - [28] - Quote Goldfinch wrote: Pieter Tuulinen wrote: The man asked you what you would do if the Amarrians expanded the active part of the 24th Imperial Crusade to include Caldari space, Commander Kim. He asked what you would do if they started reclaiming Caldari citizens by force, instead of through soft power, as they do now. I'd like to hear your answer to that question, too. It shouldn't be a difficult question to answer. We find it surprising that a true-to-form soldier such as yourself would resort to baseless speculation. Why, tell us more about the assumptions you'd like to make about Amarr today based on stories you've read in the history books. Officer Kim respects her allies enough not to fall into that trap. It is axiomatic that a soldier should be polite, should be punctual and should have a plan to kill everyone he meets. Just because I believe that it is highly unlikely that the Empire will turn on the State any time soon, that doesn't mean that I believe it is impossible that they ever should do so. Commander Kim-haani and I are similar in that we have both served for lengthy periods on the Amarr warfront - I hope you would not weigh my desire to defend my home over concrete actions taken in the defence of your Empire? Goldfinch wrote: As for "soft power", if a man chooses to surrender to God of his own will that act should be taken in perspective. Amarr Holderships change their practices to profit from Caldari Corporate efficiencies. The Amarr adopt your clothing, consume your television shows, and drink your sodas. There is no nefarious game of "soft power" afoot. Two cultures joined together as allies do as friends do. They adopt each other's ways and at the same time they fight to keep their uniqueness and individuality. It seems like a shame you have to paint this cultural exchange as a Caldari net loss or an Amarr net gain. You must excuse me, ma'am, but I have Amarrian friends and colleagues and I know that the Empire has the goal of converting all of humanity to their Faith. That goal is fundamentally and intrinsically apposite to The State's goal of protecting it's culture and remaining independent. If a Caldari citizen is convinced to surrender to God of his own will then that act is due to "soft power" and I do not hold the Empire in any way culpable for it - that is taking the act in the proper perspective. If the Empire were to invade, imprison and enslave Caldari and subject them to forced conversion through generational slavery then this would be through "hard power" and it would invoke a very dissimilar response. Please understand, however, that just because I term the peaceful route as "soft power" it doesn't mean that I view it as a nefarious game. It is your faith. It is your culture. It is you being authentically you, so as to speak, and I do not hold your culture or your faith against you. In fact, should you convert the Caldari to your faith through that route, I would say that you simply came out best in the Marketplace of Ideas. I was interested merely in Commander Kim's reaction and only because she seemed to misunderstand the question. She has now answered - that she would fight to the death. As would I. As would many, many Caldari. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Cain Aloga Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 154	Posted - 2015.11.23 03:19:50 - [29] - Quote Pieter Tuulinen wrote: In fact, should you convert the Caldari to your faith through that route, I would say that you simply came out best in the Marketplace of Ideas. This is perhaps, the most Caldari thing I have ever heard. While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2235	Posted - 2015.11.23 03:51:24 - [30] - Quote Also, I would like to point out that questions like that are insinuations against honor of our allies, Amarr Empire. Unlike dishonorable Minmatar Republic and Gallente Federation, who were known to backstab multiple of times, the Amarr Empire is honorable ally, and discussing possibilities of their attack on us is an insult to their honor, as well as dishonoring those, who make such insinuations, since they are made on the basis of pure imagination and not facts, that would affect honor of our allies. Asking questions like that is unbecoming to an honorable officer. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 872	Posted - 2015.11.23 04:07:55 - [31] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Also, I would like to point out that questions like that are insinuations against honor of our allies, Amarr Empire. Unlike dishonorable Minmatar Republic and Gallente Federation, who were known to backstab multiple of times, the Amarr Empire is honorable ally, and discussing possibilities of their attack on us is an insult to their honor, as well as dishonoring those, who make such insinuations, since they are made on the basis of pure imagination and not facts, that would affect honor of our allies. Asking questions like that is unbecoming to an honorable officer. I am friends with that guy so I am going to completely overlook that huge pile of smelly laundry that's he hasn't gotten around to attending the past centuries. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Goldfinch Order of Jamyl 575	Posted - 2015.11.23 06:06:47 - [32] - Quote We are satisfied with your response, Mr. Tuulinen and we hope you do not take insult from our words. We value your present and past service. But as much as we value it, we also feel it necessary to attack any insinuation of Amarr treachery and oppression when none is committed. This bird is perhaps overzealous in her defense of Empire, but perhaps as a Patriot you would understand that reaction. Cain Aloga wrote: Is the reclamation not a central tenant of your Faith? Were you not commanded by your god to bring all peoples to his faith? While the method of the reclamation may evolve over time and be subject to debate, The Amarr Empire has always held the reclamation as one its goals. Were you suddenly of the Amarr Faith and we are misunderstanding? We don't ever recall lecturing you on the tenets of your faith, or what we stereotype the central beliefs of your culture to be. You've never met us, or taken the time to understand who we are and what our motivations could be. Of course we would be happy to sit down and discuss philosophy and life and war and peace with you. But this sort of blanket statement? Comfort yourself with it if you'd like. What you're doing here is the same thing the Matari accuse the Amarr of doing time and again. \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on eve-backstage)
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2237	Posted - 2015.11.23 07:07:26 - [33] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: I am friends with that guy so I am going to completely overlook that huge pile of smelly laundry that's he hasn't gotten around to attending the past centuries. Except that huge pile of smelly laundry exists only inside your head, gallentean lapdog. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Nick Bete The Scope Gallente Federation 375	Posted - 2015.11.23 08:42:32 - [34] - Quote Why do you people continue to address Kim? She's completely irrational, incapable of holding a logical discussion, a bigot, advocate of mass murder of civilians, sociopath and bad IGS poster. If you keep feeding this troll it will just continue to froth at the mouth and vomit its vile message all over the IGS. For the sake of all things good and decent please do not continue to feed this troll! Let her argue with herself and soon enough it will grow bored and go away.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2238	Posted - 2015.11.23 10:09:48 - [35] - Quote Nick Bete wrote: Why do you people continue to address Kim? She's completely irrational Said a gallentean idiot, who started insults as replies on rational ideas. Nick Bete wrote: incapable of holding a logical discussion Said a gallentean idiot, beginning discussion with insults and his marasmic assumptions about Caldari officer. Nick Bete wrote: a bigot, advocate of mass murder of civilians, sociopath and bad IGS poster. And thus Nick Bete continued imagining himself as a complete lying moron. Nick Bete wrote: For the sake of all things good and decent please do not continue to feed this troll! Let her argue with herself and soon enough it will grow bored and go away. Yes, now you see that Nick Bete's replies are nothing but lies, insults and trolling, thus please don't pay attention to his posts. Thanks. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Skyweir Kinnison Coldhammer Harvest LLC 144	Posted - 2015.11.23 10:13:04 - [36] - Quote Nick Bete wrote: Why do you people continue to address Kim? She's completely irrational, incapable of holding a logical discussion, a bigot, advocate of mass murder of civilians, sociopath and bad IGS poster. If you keep feeding this troll it will just continue to froth at the mouth and vomit its vile message all over the IGS. For the sake of all things good and decent please do not continue to feed this troll! Let her argue with herself and soon enough it will grow bored and go away. I respectfully disagree. Whilst the endless baiting is tiresome, Commander Kim is remarkably consistent, and rational within her own terms of reference. Liberty demands that we see all points of view. We should suppress nothing, least of all that which displeases us. Liberty also provides us with the choice to ignore the tiresome, or to engage further with it. Commander Kim is important to this forum because she reminds us of what the State can become if left unchecked by humanity. Most of the Caldari here are eminently reasonable, to the extent that the State is widely viewed as the best 'partner' for all sides, something to which to aspire. Without Kim and her occasional acolytes, they would enjoy a very powerful propaganda advantage, one that affords the mega-corporations immense leverage in trade deals and thus power. The Commander's rhetoric serves a very useful counter-balance, revealing the real face behind the smiling mask. She also serves a similar purpose for the Federation, though I suspect it would pain her to hear me say this. Demagoguery and the demonisation of the 'other' is easy to see in opponents, and yet horribly enchanting when it comes from one's own. Duvalier and Heth are two sides of the same coin - both offering easy, black and white solutions where thinking is not encouraged, and Liberty roughly shut in a cell using 'emergency powers'. There, I asserted the unthinkable. Diana Kim is the conscience of the Federation. Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1470	Posted - 2015.11.23 12:28:06 - [37] - Quote The Reclaming being a central part in Amarr doctrines, seen through the lens of History, often results in a two way process: the cultural assimilation of the target civilization, and the counter cultural effect that tends to stem from the assimilated cultures. Most historical cases seem to point towards it: the Udorian legacy is now intricately part of the Amarr, as well as ni-kunni in many parts of the Empire. It may be the most obvious in the Mandate, where many cultures tend to co-exist, and I am not necessarily referring to the related Cultural Recess. Of course, the more dissimilar both cultures prove to be in terms of scale, the less one will have an impact on the other.
Cain Aloga Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 157	Posted - 2015.11.23 14:15:46 - [38] - Quote Goldfinch wrote: We are satisfied with your response, Mr. Tuulinen and we hope you do not take insult from our words. We value your present and past service. But as much as we value it, we also feel it necessary to attack any insinuation of Amarr treachery and oppression when none is committed. This bird is perhaps overzealous in her defense of Empire, but perhaps as a Patriot you would understand that reaction. Cain Aloga wrote: Is the reclamation not a central tenant of your Faith? Were you not commanded by your god to bring all peoples to his faith? While the method of the reclamation may evolve over time and be subject to debate, The Amarr Empire has always held the reclamation as one its goals. Were you suddenly of the Amarr Faith and we are misunderstanding? We don't ever recall lecturing you on the tenets of your faith, or what we stereotype the central beliefs of your culture to be. You've never met us, or taken the time to understand who we are and what our motivations could be. But this sort of blanket statement? Comfort yourself with it if you'd like. What you're doing here is the same thing the Matari accuse the Amarr of doing time and again. I am not now, nor ever will be a member of your faith. As such I do not hope to lecture you on the nuances of your ideology. I am merely repeating to you the Message the Amarr Empire has has been broadcasting to my people for centuries. If I am mistaken, and the Reclamation, the effort to convert all people to your faith has been abandoned, and shall never again be taken up, please correct my mistake. There is no shame in being corrected by one who is more knowledgeable. goldfinch wrote: Of course we would be happy to sit down and discuss philosophy and life and war and peace with you. Should you wish to engage in such a discussion with me, I shall gladly accept. While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Aldur Vaako PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1	Posted - 2015.11.23 14:31:09 - [39] - Quote Need I remind everyone here that the Amarr Empire considers the Blood Raiders Terrorists and a Pirate Organisation? The Amarr Empire's Golden Age will go from strength to strength and will never devolve into worship of the Red God that they worship. The Blood Raiders are severely deluded if they believe that they will be able to defeat the faithful. I would appeal for all Corporations that support the Amarr Empire and God to send these heretics the hell where they belong. To the supporters of the Blood Raiders and to the Blood Raiders themselves Judgement is coming and none will be able to escape it. I will be there to deliver His Judgement upon Nauplius and his ilk. You do have the option of surrender but i hope to fight to the bitter end.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2238	Posted - 2015.11.23 14:35:18 - [40] - Quote Skyweir Kinnison wrote: She also serves a similar purpose for the Federation, though I suspect it would pain her to hear me say this. Demagoguery and the demonisation of the 'other' is easy to see in opponents, and yet horribly enchanting when it comes from one's own. Duvalier and Heth are two sides of the same coin - both offering easy, black and white solutions where thinking is not encouraged, and Liberty roughly shut in a cell using 'emergency powers'. Filthy gallentean swine! How dare you compare your inhuman fascist and occupant Duvalier to the greatest Caldari Hero, who has liberated our Homeworld from 200 years of gallente occupation and oppression?! And you dare to say it after he DID sign treaty with your dishonorable Federation, which you have obviously violated anyway just to try to occupy our homeworld again. Shame on you, gallentean. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2239	Posted - 2015.11.23 14:51:20 - [41] - Quote Aldur Vaako wrote: Need I remind everyone here that the Amarr Empire considers the Blood Raiders Terrorists and a Pirate Organisation? Yes, I have seen latest Omir's action that was clearly a terror act. However, if used to describe them as enemies or criminal, why add word terrorist at all? Terrorism is just a poor man's war. To show that they are pity and incapable fighters? Honestly, I would have expected them being called Cultists and Pirates, or Heretics and Pirates instead. Maybe I am mistaken, but I think both being cultist or heretic in the Empire is rather a criminal offense, no? Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Tamiroth Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 154	Posted - 2015.11.23 15:56:13 - [42] - Quote Honestly, I don't even know what is the purpose of this thread. There's probably one actual open Blood Raider in the Amarr militia - Nauplius. But I hope that everyone here is also well aware that: - All, and I mean all, militias are full of mercenaries, privateers, profiteers, simply pirates and criminals of every possible sort. - Independent pilots in general don't take anything seriously, but love to annoy the opposition and consider unfunny jokes a form of art, as well as taunting enemies in local. So, before anyone begins to summon the Theology council, Speakers of Truth, discuss the relative downsides of being simply enslaved or bled to death, it would be wise to assume that if a militia pilot screams random things at you in local, it has like a 90% chance of having no relevance to reality whatsoever, and if you wasted even a second of your time reading his taunts, it means that he achieved his goal.
Aldur Vaako PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3	Posted - 2015.11.23 15:57:22 - [43] - Quote A core tenet of our faith is redemption. God's Light shines upon us all you just need to open your eyes to it and accept it. Not all cultists are above redemption it isn't for us to grant it to them. so whilst it's true being a cultist is a criminal offense if they come back to God's teachings then there is a chance they may be saved in Heaven. Heretic's are beyond saving however as they continually debase God and themselves. Hell is the only place for them. A Cultist's redemption can only happen if they are captured alive which doesn't happen very often.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2239	Posted - 2015.11.23 16:00:49 - [44] - Quote Lady Azaph, I would though recommend to not level militia officers to some sort of null security alliance, who just spam local. They might be rough soldiers, but they aren't goons. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Goldfinch Order of Jamyl 577	Posted - 2015.11.23 16:40:27 - [45] - Quote Cain Aloga wrote: I am not now, nor ever will be a member of your faith. As such I do not hope to lecture you on the nuances of your ideology. I am merely repeating to you the Message the Amarr Empire has has been broadcasting to my people for centuries. If I am mistaken, and the Reclamation, the effort to convert all people to your faith has been abandoned, and shall never again be taken up, please correct my mistake. There is no shame in being corrected by one who is more knowledgeable. The discussion of Reclaiming thus far in this thread has characterized it as an act of war, and a driving force which will attempt to crush all Caldari culture under its boot. We disagree with this characterization of Empire at the present, though we will not deny the history we have with Matari. Whether or not conversion to the Faith is a central mandate isn't the point. All cultures assimilate, and all cultures judge things they do not understand. To this point, even the Federation is not immune. What is important is that the Empire adheres to the treaties and agreements of CONCORD. The Empire follows these rules moreso than certain other members of CONCORD who have resorted to accord-breaking warfare to satisfy their own cultural mandates. Our adherence to CONCORD is so extreme that we even allow contraband in our markets. You can laugh at what we've said so far, but there is no organized Amarr military effort to Reclaim your people or any others. The limited and encircled war zones that exist are systems where aggression is open to all. If you're going to judge Amarr war acts in these systems, then the same yardstick should be applied to Minmatar and Gallente war acts, too. Quote: Should you wish to engage in such a discussion with me, I shall gladly accept. We thank you for your offer. An EVE Mail will be sent shortly so we may decide on a time and place. \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on eve-backstage)
Anabella Rella Gradient 2087	Posted - 2015.11.23 21:00:20 - [46] - Quote Goldfinch wrote: ...What is important is that the Empire adheres to the treaties and agreements of CONCORD. The Empire follows these rules moreso than certain other members of CONCORD who have resorted to accord-breaking warfare to satisfy their own cultural mandates]... Oh great, yet another slaver sympathizer comes onto the IGS and attempts to portray the imperials as victims. I would remind said sympathizer that had the Amarr not invaded and systematically committed genocide and kidnapping on a planetary scale that the Elder Fleet would have never existed. We'd have left the Amarrians alone because we'd have had no reason to attack them. Sorry but, none of the other modern empires has invaded and attempted to convert at gunpoint another EXCEPT THE AMARR. And not only did you do it to us Minmatar you also tried it on the Jove so, you can't say your behavior was an aberration. It's a central tenet of your religion, philosophy and culture. You and your masters, as the cluster's original aggressors, have no right to lecture anyone about the rule of law or play the aggrieved party. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Johanes Beaumonte Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 86	Posted - 2015.11.23 21:19:24 - [47] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: Goldfinch wrote: ...What is important is that the Empire adheres to the treaties and agreements of CONCORD. The Empire follows these rules moreso than certain other members of CONCORD who have resorted to accord-breaking warfare to satisfy their own cultural mandates]... Oh great, yet another slaver sympathizer comes onto the IGS and attempts to portray the imperials as victims. I would remind said sympathizer that had the Amarr not invaded and systematically committed genocide and kidnapping on a planetary scale that the Elder Fleet would have never existed. We'd have left the Amarrians alone because we'd have had no reason to attack them. Sorry but, none of the other modern empires has invaded and attempted to convert at gunpoint another EXCEPT THE AMARR. And not only did you do it to us Minmatar you also tried it on the Jove so, you can't say your behavior was an aberration. It's a central tenet of your religion, philosophy and culture. You and your masters, as the cluster's original aggressors, have no right to lecture anyone about the rule of law or play the aggrieved party. You make the year 22480 it sound like it was yesterday instead of nearly 900 years ago. You hold grudges worse than my wife!
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 43	Posted - 2015.11.23 21:33:35 - [48] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: You and your masters, as the cluster's original aggressors, have no right to lecture anyone about the rule of law or play the aggrieved party. And yet we were the aggrieved. Unlike in times prior to the formation of CONCORD there were bindng agreements in place that Emperor Heideran committed the Amarr to following. Slave taking for all intents and purpose ceased as it was made illegal, a relative peace was instituted, and even begrudgingly the sovereignty... or I suppose the formalisation of the Republic was recognised. Yet some how the Elder's were simply able to flout modern laws and agreements through minor and baseless interpretations of their making and despite this no punishment or injunctions were levelled against the guilty parties.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 769	Posted - 2015.11.23 21:41:58 - [49] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Yet some how the Elder's were simply able to flout modern laws and agreements through minor and baseless interpretations of their making and despite this no punishment or injunctions were levelled against the guilty parties. Yes, a group not sanctioned or supported by the republic attacked you. We're obviously to blame right? Just because they're Matari doesn't make them the republic. Does this mean we can blame the empire for whatever the Khanid did back when they were more independent?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1649	Posted - 2015.11.23 22:04:05 - [50] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Yet some how the Elder's were simply able to flout modern laws and agreements through minor and baseless interpretations of their making and despite this no punishment or injunctions were levelled against the guilty parties. You mean the Elders who weren't part of the Republic, but built and staged their fleet in the Thukker-held Great Wildlands, where none of the 'binding agreements' held sway? Very good, sir. I assume, based on your logic, that when the Blood Raiders attack a ship, you consider that ship to have come under fire from the Amarr Empire, then?
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2578	Posted - 2015.11.24 01:48:27 - [51] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: There's probably one actual open Blood Raider in the Amarr militia - Nauplius. If only that were so. Anabella Rella wrote: You and your masters, as the cluster's original aggressors, have no right to lecture anyone about the rule of law or play the aggrieved party. No treaties existed between Amarr and the Minmatar during our first invasion. No law was broken. Quote: Sorry but, none of the other modern empires has invaded and attempted to convert at gunpoint another EXCEPT THE AMARR. And the Federation, and the Republic, and the State. For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord He shall be taken into the arms of God And forever consecrated will he be. -Amarr-Askura 2:3
Cain Aloga Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 158	Posted - 2015.11.24 01:59:46 - [52] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: Quote: Sorry but, none of the other modern empires has invaded and attempted to convert at gunpoint another EXCEPT THE AMARR. And the Federation, and the Republic, and the State. I see the point you make, but if you'll allow me to nitpic at semantics, the argument in question is in regards to conversion. Let us use a rather general definition; the adoption of the ideological beliefs of others. In this regard, one could argue that at most TWO empires have done so through military means; the Amarr Empire and the Galante Federation. While the Republic and the State have engaged in military aggression, the express purpose is not conversion. While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 44	Posted - 2015.11.24 02:07:37 - [53] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Kador Ouryon wrote: Yet some how the Elder's were simply able to flout modern laws and agreements through minor and baseless interpretations of their making and despite this no punishment or injunctions were levelled against the guilty parties. Yes, a group not sanctioned or supported by the republic attacked you. We're obviously to blame right? Just because they're Matari doesn't make them the republic. Does this mean we can blame the empire for whatever the Khanid did back when they were more independent? I'm not necessarily levelling any particular grievance against the Republic itself. More so remarking.... or responding to Ms Rella's statement. It was my understanding of her statement that she seemed to infer that somehow because of and act of aggression in keeping with the Amarr Faith's goal of Reclamation that we could not or should not claim to be victimised. I'm not so much blaming anyone though, it wouldn't achieve anything nor would it point the dialogue in this thread in a positive or constructive direction. Where our representatives had though they might have brokered some modicum of peace or perhaps a cold conflict with the Matari people as a whole the Elder's proved us wrong and made us subject to an unlawful attack. That CONCORD itself took no punitive action, nor the Republic itself was as I have said aggrieving enough. Amusingly enough though yourself and other capsuleers more closely aligned with the Matari people seem altogether too keen to jump to the Elder's defence despite their actions mirroring those of the Empire despite the representative and supposedly governing body of the Republic holding agreements with the CONCORD signatory members.
Cain Aloga Re-Awakened Technologies Inc The 11th Hour Alliance 159	Posted - 2015.11.24 02:17:25 - [54] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Where our representatives had though they might have brokered some modicum of peace or perhaps a cold conflict with the Matari people as a whole the Elder's proved us wrong and made us subject to an unlawful attack. That CONCORD itself took no punitive action, nor the Republic itself was as I have said aggrieving enough. Amusingly enough though yourself and other capsuleers more closely aligned with the Matari people seem altogether too keen to jump to the Elder's defence despite their actions mirroring those of the Empire despite the representative and supposedly governing body of the Republic did hold agreements with the CONCORD signatory members. Again, I shall point to technicalities. When the Elder Fleet attacked the Amarr Empire, NO LAW OR TREATY WAS BROKEN. The Elders and the Thukkers who comprised that force were not members of any sovereign empire, nor were they themselves signatories of any treaty or accord. They were a foreign power. Concord could not take punitive action against any one because there was no one to take action against. Now, that there was no action taken within the Republic should not be surprising. We did after all cheer them on. While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 211	Posted - 2015.11.24 02:41:00 - [55] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Amusingly enough though yourself and other capsuleers more closely aligned with the Matari people seem altogether too keen to jump to the Elder's [sic] defence [sic] despite their actions mirroring those of the Empire... While I have maintained that the Elder invasion was the most foolish act of humanity since the Amarr tried to reclaim the Jove, such a comparison is hardly fair. The Elder invasion was launched to free and restore enslaved peoples and crush all opposition. Last time I checked, that wasn't exactly the aim of the Amarr reclaiming fleets, but that was 900 years ago. Anyways, the Elder stunt engulfed the cluster into war again and poisoned any hope for of diplomatic resolution regarding the Amarr slave situation for the next ten years--noble, kind of effective, but idiotic. I would invite everybody to forget about it and try working together again, but like hell will that ever happen. In the meantime we keep pushing the warzone back and forth while the Amarr still own our families. Talk, mutually beneficial talk, is the only way to fix the steaming pile of **** we were served, but since nobody's interested in that, I'll just keep making money off the war. Sometimes I consider it a shame I'm not nearly Practical enough to join the Amarr Militia, I hear their LP is worth a lot. Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1651	Posted - 2015.11.24 02:47:44 - [56] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Where our representatives had though they might have brokered some modicum of peace or perhaps a cold conflict with the Matari people as a whole the Elder's proved us wrong and made us subject to an unlawful attack. That CONCORD itself took no punitive action, nor the Republic itself was as I have said aggrieving enough. Precisely what 'punitive action' would you like CONCORD to have taken in an area where, according to the Yulai accords that created it, CONCORD has no power to enact punitive action? Similarly, what punitive action would you like the Republic to have taken on dead men, considering the Elder Fleet was destroyed? Or would you have had the Minmatar Republic attack nomadic Thukker bands in the Great Wildlands, with no indications who actually constructed those ships? After all, the Amarr never undertook reprisals against the Thukkers, despite having every piece of physical evidence available to any of the Empires? Quote: Amusingly enough though yourself and other capsuleers more closely aligned with the Matari people seem altogether too keen to jump to the Elder's defence despite their actions mirroring those of the Empire despite the representative and supposedly governing body of the Republic holding agreements with the CONCORD signatory members. The Elders were not represented by the governing body of the Republic. They did not live in the Republic. They were not affiliated with the Republic. Let's play a game of 'what if...?' What If.... Asher Elias, a member of Goonswarm, kidnaps your child. You vow to get your child back. Three years later, Alizabeth Vea and I make a deal that says I won't attack her, and she won't attack me. Neither one of us claims to speak for anyone but ourselves. Are you now prohibited from seeking to free and recover your child, because 'goons' and 'amarr' have a legally-binding agreement? Because that's roughly what you're complaining about.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 772	Posted - 2015.11.24 02:48:03 - [57] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: I'm not necessarily levelling any particular grievance against the Republic itself. More so remarking.... or responding to Ms Rella's statement. It was my understanding of her statement that she seemed to infer that somehow because of and act of aggression in keeping with the Amarr Faith's goal of Reclamation that we could not or should not claim to be victimised. ... (addressed Separate) ... Where our representatives had though they might have brokered some modicum of peace or perhaps a cold conflict with the Matari people as a whole the Elder's proved us wrong and made us subject to an unlawful attack. That CONCORD itself took no punitive action, nor the Republic itself was as I have said aggrieving enough. Amusingly enough though yourself and other capsuleers more closely aligned with the Matari people seem altogether too keen to jump to the Elder's defence despite their actions mirroring those of the Empire despite the representative and supposedly governing body of the Republic holding agreements with the CONCORD signatory members. My apologies for mistaking the point you were making. As far as the last part of the quote: Speaking for myself, The invasion happened around the same time I was starting classes in the RMS after returning to the republic from Annages. At the time it was happening I was attending classes daydreaming about working on Electus Matari combat ships sitting in a class full of republic fleet trainees. I don't think I have to say that in an environment like that it was looked at more favorably rather than negatively. At that time I supported it and didn't like the fact the republic didn't do anything but sit on their thumbs. We can support our republic without agreeing with everything blindly. Faith isn't blind in the Republic.I hope that clears your little... observations.... up. Kador Ouryon wrote: ... I'm not so much blaming anyone though, it wouldn't achieve anything nor would it point the dialogue in this thread in a positive or constructive direction. ... To that I couldn't agree more, this little tanget is irrelevant to blood raiders in the 24ic. Not to mention throwing blame on history is rather pointless is it not? Fact is fact and semantics are well......
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 45	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:15:09 - [58] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Faith isn't blind in the Republic. Nor is it in the Empire. Everyone has a reason to hope though can't say whether you or your kin might see those reasons as valid. However we are getting off on a tangents and as you said this is not the place for another theological debate. All I have to say regarding this matter is that it is beyond my station and more suited to older and wiser minds than my own. I trust them to do the right thing in that regard for the Empire. I must make it clear that this is not intended as meek acceptance just an understanding of my place.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 211	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:19:31 - [59] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Faith isn't blind in the Republic. Nor is it in the Empire. Everyone has a reason to hope though can't say whether you or your kin might see those reasons as valid. However we are getting off on a tangents and as you said this is not the place for another theological debate. All I have to say regarding this matter is that it is beyond my station and more suited to older and wiser minds than my own. I trust them to do the right thing in that regard for the Empire. I must make it clear that this is not intended as meek acceptance just an understanding of my place. An honorable position. To turn the conversation back to the matter at hand, do you believe that the Empire should allow professing Blooders to represent it? Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 772	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:31:08 - [60] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Faith isn't blind in the Republic. Nor is it in the Empire. Everyone has a reason to hope though can't say whether you or your kin might see those reasons as valid. However we are getting off on a tangents and as you said this is not the place for another theological debate. All I have to say regarding this matter is that it is beyond my station and more suited to older and wiser minds than my own. I trust them to do the right thing in that regard for the Empire. I must make it clear that this is not intended as meek acceptance just an understanding of my place. Nothing meek about it.
Kador Ouryon Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 45	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:31:41 - [61] - Quote Neph wrote: The Elder invasion was launched to free and restore enslaved peoples and crush all opposition. Last time I checked, that wasn't exactly the aim of the Amarr reclaiming fleets, but that was 900 years ago. Not to provoke any additional verbal jousting where it not needed but I suppose that statement adequately surmises the cultural differences between the modern Empire and Republic. The Amarr simply don't look at the Reclamation like that. Neph wrote: Talk, mutually beneficial talk, is the only way to fix the steaming pile of **** we were served, but since nobody's interested in that, I'll just keep making money off the war and shittalking in local. Sometimes I consider it a shame I'm not nearly Practical enough to join the Amarr Militia, I hear their LP is worth a lot. I for the most part agree. I'd like to believe the future of the Reclaming does not have to lie in an era of bitter and internicine war and that with a more politically moderate Emperor or Empress set to assuming the Throne that this might not be the case. Until then however like many others I'll fight for what I believe in.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 211	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:39:36 - [62] - Quote Kador Ouryon wrote: Neph wrote: The Elder invasion was launched to free and restore enslaved peoples and crush all opposition. Last time I checked, that wasn't exactly the aim of the Amarr reclaiming fleets, but that was 900 years ago. Not to provoke any additional verbal jousting where it not needed but I suppose that statement adequately surmises the cultural differences between the modern Empire and Republic. The Amarr simply don't look at the Reclamation like that. Hmm. If anything, I think it's better understood as a call to reflection upon the cultural differences between the modern Empire and the Empire a millennia ago. Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2578	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:40:52 - [63] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Similarly, what punitive action would you like the Republic to have taken on dead men, considering the Elder Fleet was destroyed? Or would you have had the Minmatar Republic attack nomadic Thukker bands in the Great Wildlands, with no indications who actually constructed those ships? The Elder Fleet wasn't destroyed. A third of it retreated back to Republic space, where it was given sanctuary by the Republic despite orders from CONCORD to apprehend them. Quote: The Elders were not represented by the governing body of the Republic. They did not live in the Republic. They were not affiliated with the Republic. There were Republic ships with the Elder Fleet. It is well known that many Republic Fleet vessels abandoned their posts to join the Elder Fleet, and the Republic protected the Elders when they retreated from Amarr. The only evidence we have of the Republic not being involved was a statement by Midular's government... which was deposed shortly after. For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord He shall be taken into the arms of God And forever consecrated will he be. -Amarr-Askura 2:3
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2578	Posted - 2015.11.24 03:42:37 - [64] - Quote Neph wrote: An honorable position. To turn the conversation back to the matter at hand, do you believe that the Empire should allow professing Blooders to represent it? Absolutely not. For whosoever shall lay his life down for his Lord He shall be taken into the arms of God And forever consecrated will he be. -Amarr-Askura 2:3
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2240	Posted - 2015.11.24 07:15:34 - [65] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: Oh great, yet another slaver sympathizer comes onto the IGS and attempts to portray the imperials as victims. I would remind said sympathizer that had the Amarr not invaded and systematically committed genocide and kidnapping on a planetary scale that the Elder Fleet would have never existed. We'd have left the Amarrians alone because we'd have had no reason to attack them. There is basically no valid reason for Minmatars attacking Amarrians, yet they do it, calling "slavers" or "slaver sympathizers", just because it is internal Amarr Empire politics, not external. For hundreds of years the Amarr Empire didn't enslave anyone, except criminals and prisoners of war. Of course, there were illegal slavers, but if you would look into same republic, they have even whole illegal slave cartel, that might get way more slaves than independant criminal slavers from the Empire. But on the other hand, taking into account it is Anabella Rella, even logic won't make her stiff brains work. Anabella Rella wrote: Sorry but, none of the other modern empires has invaded and attempted to convert at gunpoint another EXCEPT THE AMARR. It is funny to see that some primitives haven't heard about existence of Gallente Federation. Because the Amarr Empire stopped doing it quite long ago, while the Federation was doing it merely 200 years ago. Anabella Rella wrote: You and your masters, as the cluster's original aggressors, have no right to lecture anyone about the rule of law or play the aggrieved party. Said supporter of tribals and gallentes, who have started both war with Empire and the State. Wow. Just wow. Ignorance overload. Now question: what does have Rella in her head? Wood splinters instead of brains? The conclusion: Anabella Rella must be reenslaved, kept in chains and shouldn't be allowed to speak as she fails to use logic anyway. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 772	Posted - 2015.11.24 13:08:38 - [66] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Anabella Rella wrote: Oh great, yet another slaver sympathizer comes onto the IGS and attempts to portray the imperials as victims. I would remind said sympathizer that had the Amarr not invaded and systematically committed genocide and kidnapping on a planetary scale that the Elder Fleet would have never existed. We'd have left the Amarrians alone because we'd have had no reason to attack them. There is basically no valid reason for Minmatars attacking Amarrians, yet they do it, calling "slavers" or "slaver sympathizers", just because it is internal Amarr Empire politics, not external. For hundreds of years the Amarr Empire didn't enslave anyone, except criminals and prisoners of war. Of course, there were illegal slavers, but if you would look into same republic, they have even whole illegal slave cartel, that might get way more slaves than independant criminal slavers from the Empire. But on the other hand, taking into account it is Anabella Rella, even logic won't make her stiff brains work. Anabella Rella wrote: Sorry but, none of the other modern empires has invaded and attempted to convert at gunpoint another EXCEPT THE AMARR. It is funny to see that some primitives haven't heard about existence of Gallente Federation. Because the Amarr Empire stopped doing it quite long ago, while the Federation was doing it merely 200 years ago. Anabella Rella wrote: You and your masters, as the cluster's original aggressors, have no right to lecture anyone about the rule of law or play the aggrieved party. Said supporter of tribals and gallentes, who have started both war with Empire and the State. Wow. Just wow. Ignorance overload. Now question: what does have Rella in her head? Wood splinters instead of brains? The conclusion: Anabella Rella must be reenslaved, kept in chains and shouldn't be allowed to speak as she fails to use logic anyway. So what's your opinion on blood raiders in the 24ic? Are they either detrimental or helpful to the 24ic war machine? More of a threat to the TLF?
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 330	Posted - 2015.11.24 14:29:04 - [67] - Quote Tamiroth wrote: Honestly, I don't even know what is the purpose of this thread. There's probably one actual open Blood Raider in the Amarr militia - Nauplius. But I hope that everyone here is also well aware that: - All, and I mean all, militias are full of mercenaries, privateers, profiteers, simply pirates and criminals of every possible sort. - Independent pilots in general don't take anything seriously, but love to annoy the opposition and consider unfunny jokes a form of art, as well as taunting enemies in local. So, before anyone begins to summon the Theology council, Speakers of Truth, discuss the relative downsides of being simply enslaved or bled to death, it would be wise to assume that if a militia pilot screams random things at you in local, it has like a 90% chance of having no relevance to reality whatsoever, and if you wasted even a second of your time reading his taunts, it means that he achieved his goal. Nauplius is not a Blood Raider. Are you Nauplius? Speak up! Are you a Blood Raider, Nauplius? Let us all know! Are you ashamed?! Do you hide?! Or do you give your own blood to the covenant? Do you give life to those who need it most? Do you make the pilgrimage to Blood Reach? Do you believe in the, Ammatar, Saint Kalorr Makur? I've seen him with my own two camera drones! He even yellow boxed me! Nauplius is not a Blood Raider! How can one be a Blood Raider and not visit the holiest of holies, Blood Reach? Or think that just because someone is born Minmatar, like Saint Kalorr Makur, that they are to be given up to destruction! Saint Kalorr Makur is alive! Just like all of god's chosen!
ValentinaDLM Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 818	Posted - 2015.11.24 17:48:04 - [68] - Quote Amusing how much of the conversation Diana seems to be trying to insert herself into. While it isn't my place so much to comment on internal politics in the 24th imperial crusade as a former member of it I can certainly say there are groups, such as holy Amarrian battlemonk, blood fountain massacre, and individuals that profess support for the "red God". How serious they are is something that the Ministry of Internal order ought to investigate. I have had quite a few friends who were Sani Sabik, and I wouldn't paint them all with the same brush as the Blood Raiders. I also would like to point out I have no issue with Kalo Askold's organization, which strikes very often into the heart of Amarrian providence, why should I care what her religious views are if she isn't trying to convert or enslave us. As far as the reclaiming goes, I find it intriguing some have decided to put the Empire on such a pedestal with their words, knowing the Caldari as I do, I am certain that if the Empire starts taking direct steps to harm the State that pragmatic voices will prevail and Caldari culture and sovereignty will be protected. The Caldari are strong like us, they would never let another power dominate them, they would always fight, always do what it takes to survive. The Amarr paint themselves as victims all too often which makes me wonder if they have ever really expierenced adversity as a culture.
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2241	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:29:54 - [69] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: So what's your opinion on blood raiders in the 24ic? Are they either detrimental or helpful to the 24ic war machine? More of a threat to the TLF? Pirates are criminals and must be dealt with like criminals. However, while they are killing TLF they might be left alone. As soon as the TLF will be defeated they should follow. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 214	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:32:07 - [70] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: So what's your opinion on blood raiders in the 24ic? Are they either detrimental or helpful to the 24ic war machine? More of a threat to the TLF? Pirates are criminals and must be dealt with like criminals. However, while they are killing TLF they might be left alone. As soon as the TLF will be defeated they should follow. Would you support Guristas and Sansha in the Protectorate? At least, until the Gallente are done. Then we can deal with them. Our peoples have stared extinction in the eye; but we have spat in that eye and stood to fight with valor and undying loyalty to our culture and our kin. Our struggle is as one, so let us struggle together.
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 775	Posted - 2015.11.24 18:39:32 - [71] - Quote Diana Kim wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: So what's your opinion on blood raiders in the 24ic? Are they either detrimental or helpful to the 24ic war machine? More of a threat to the TLF? Pirates are criminals and must be dealt with like criminals. However, while they are killing TLF they might be left alone. As soon as the TLF will be defeated they should follow. But at the same time they are heretics to your allies, and unless I'm mistaken heretics are seen as worse to them. I'm not trying to twist your words or anything (I'm sure to you it seems like I am) I'm honestly curious, wouldn't that make them a bigger target for you when supporting your allies? You've seen how they've gone as far as to ignore wartargets to attack nauplius' towers. I more so say that since it sure seems like that would be a bigger target to them than even the TLF (as it should be, and something I would ignore the 24ic to combat as well).
Pieter Tuulinen Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 5804	Posted - 2015.11.24 21:18:18 - [72] - Quote Neph wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: So what's your opinion on blood raiders in the 24ic? Are they either detrimental or helpful to the 24ic war machine? More of a threat to the TLF? Pirates are criminals and must be dealt with like criminals. However, while they are killing TLF they might be left alone. As soon as the TLF will be defeated they should follow. Would you support Guristas and Sansha in the Protectorate? At least, until the Gallente are done. Then we can deal with them. Given the rules for joining the State Protectorate your question is a moot point. There are assuredly already members of both in the State Protectorate and under the rules of engagement, you can't legally shoot them. "Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
Deitra Vess Khushakor Clan Of Questionable Repute 775	Posted - 2015.11.25 00:26:17 - [73] - Quote ValentinaDLM wrote: I also would like to point out I have no issue with Kalo Askold's organization, which strikes very often into the heart of Amarrian providence...... Ohhh I can wait for the next raid there! I want more free geckos!!! What? I'm sure they have have Intel channels, they should know better than to ignore them..... Or fly paladins during a raid that had been going on for a few hours, they had to know our fleet comp.... No excuses!
Diana Kim State Protectorate Caldari State 2242	Posted - 2015.11.25 05:46:27 - [74] - Quote Neph wrote: Diana Kim wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: So what's your opinion on blood raiders in the 24ic? Are they either detrimental or helpful to the 24ic war machine? More of a threat to the TLF? Pirates are criminals and must be dealt with like criminals. However, while they are killing TLF they might be left alone. As soon as the TLF will be defeated they should follow. Would you support Guristas and Sansha in the Protectorate? At least, until the Gallente are done. Then we can deal with them. Sansha aren't humans at all. They are to be exterminated. Only complete morons would support Sansha, because Sansha doesn't just take people under his command. He turns them into brainless zombies, following his will without questioning. They are like rogue drones, but made from flesh instead of metals. Guristas are filth and disgusting scum. I have been fighting them way before the Federation started the war with us again, and way before I realized that gallentes were such swines. I hate and despise gurista, as I saw with my own eyes how depraved and filthy these low-life scum are. However, I wouldn't mind to use them as a meat shield and cannon fodder to fight against gallentean menace. Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us. In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
edeity Holy Amarrian Battlemonk Habitual Chaos 82	Posted - 2015.11.26 21:13:24 - [75] - Quote Blood Raiders ate my Victory Medal. Thats all I read here. Ridiculous.
Anyanka Funk Hematology Advancement Program Sani-Sabik 334	Posted - 2015.11.27 00:02:47 - [76] - Quote Accusations. I don't see any Blood Raiders in the crusade. I see a bunch of fake Sani Sabik, trying to be fashionable. Blood Raiders don't have Amarrian masters.

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