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Virile Vinny	Posted - 2007.01.10 13:40:00 - [1] Pardon this potentially repetitive question, but as someone who has yet to delve into missiles I wonder what are some of the significant differences between the two when used in L4 missions. Many of the Raven set-ups seem to favor the use of cruise missiles, but both seem to have similar attributes. In fact, some set-ups use more torpedo launchers. Could someone clarify why the preference of one over another? Thanks!
Draco Mortis MOONSTAR INC. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:01:00 - [2] Read this topic http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=298423
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:02:00 - [3] Torpedoes: Better against battleships. Cruise missiles: Better against everything else, easier to fit. Questions to ask yourself: Are the battleships your largest problem or is it the other ships? Can you break the BS tank with cruise? Can you fit the tank you want with torpedoes. Choose depending on your answers to the above. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
MrBadidea Caldari The Children of Lilith	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:04:00 - [4] Cruise missiles have a much longer effective range that torpedos thanks to their speed; waiting 20+ seconds for a torpedo to reach its target can be a serious pain. Cruise missiles do less damage than Torpedo's, but have the advantage that they can do more damage to smaller targets. Cruise missile launchers, possibly most importantly, use less fitting than Torpedo's, and so its easier to fit a Raven with a full set of T2 gear when using T2 Cruise Missile launchers; its very difficult to pull it off with T2 Torpedo Launchers, and usually you'll find you'll need at least some faction gear combined with maxed out fitting skills (Electronics 5, Engineering 5, Weapon Upgrades 5, Advanced Weapon Upgrades 5, Electronics Upgrades 5...) and then you're still very limited in what you can fit (I can't fit a T2 X-Large shield booster on my Raven thanks to the fitting that T2 Siege takes). Torpedo's really do eat through the battleships in missions, but most Level 4 missions have very few battleships; most of the time you're up against 2-3 Battleships and upto 20 Cruisers in some cases. Its faster to eat through everything using Cruise than it is to chew out the Battleships using Torps before moving on to the cruisers. Personally I prefer Torpedo's, mainly because I never bothered to train Cruise Missiles, I have T2 Siege Launchers and I have T2 drones. I consider the extra time it takes to kill cruisers with Torpedo's outweight's using cruise to kill battleships. --- Sig removed, please keep it within 400x120 pixels, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:08:00 - [5] OK, I'll take a shot at this. Cruise launchers give you more space for a better tank. Cruise missiles hit cruisers more effectively, and hit frigates MUCH more effectively. They also have slightly better range than torps. However, torps do more damage to battleships. So; if you are going to be facing hordes of frigs and cruisers use cruise; if you are fighting mostly BS and guns/batteries use torps. For some missions (Vengeance comes to mind) you might find it worthwhile to leave, refit and come back. (The Vengeance end boss has a mean tank - you may well need all the help you can get.) If you are going to blow up a structure then torps really score there. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." ----------------------------------------------
Zixxa	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:08:00 - [6] Torpedo in Kali just suxx. There is no reason to use torpedoes instead of the cruise. Just forget about torpedoes and be happy. --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
Nardon Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:14:00 - [7] Edited by: Nardon on 10/01/2007 15:11:39 I prefer torpedos because they can't be killed by NPC defenders. Watching 4 out of 6 missiles disappear is not funny. Of course the npc got lucky then but again - not funny. Especially since every npc could fire defenders even though the ship should not be able to fit missile launchers. That aside I actually like the looks. Torpedos move gracefully towards the target and the explosion seems big. After all you are flying a battle ship. ;)
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:16:00 - [8] Actually you need a whole lot of cruisers to justify the use of cruise missiles over torps for damage purposes due to the high battleship HPs and resistances. Example: Hypotectical 6 Launcher Raven with damage/Rof values of 750/9 (500 DPS) for torps and 500/8.25 (364 DPS) for cruises, exp radii of 400m for torps and 170m for cruise missiles (3 rigor rigs and GMP at 4), and the optional use of two target painters with sig analysis at 4. NPCs: Top end Guristas ones BB: Guristas Usurper Shield: 6750 hp @ 49% weakest resistance Armor: 4230 HP @ 49% resistance Hull: 4750 HP Effective total HP: 26279 Tank: 103 effective HP/s Sig radius: 410m Painted sig radius: 732m Torp effective DPS on unpainted and painted NPC: 397 Cruise effective DPS on unpainted and painted NPC: 261 Time to kill the ship with torps: 66.2 sec Time to kill the ship with cruise: 100.7 sec Torps = 52% better Time difference: 34.5 secs CA: Guristas Eraser Shield: 1800 hp @ 28% Armor: 1150 @ 28% Hull: 1200 Effective total HP: 5297 Tank: 13.3 effective HP/s Sig radius: 155m Painted sig radius: 277m Torp effective DPS on unpainted NPC: 181 Cruise effective DPS on unpainted NPC: 318 Time to kill the unpainted ship with torps: 29.3 secs Time to kill the unpainted ship with cruise: 16.7 sec Cruise = 76% better Time difference: 12.6 secs Torp effective DPS on painted NPC: 333 Cruise effective DPS on painted NPC: 351 Time to kill the painted ship with torps: 15.9 secs Time to kill the painted ship with cruise: 15.1 sec Cruise = 5.4% better Time difference: 0.8 secs So even if you do not use painters, you need to kill almost three cruisers for each battleship to be better off using cruises. If you DO use 2 painters, you need to kill 43 cruisers for each battleship :D This is adjusted in favor of cruise by missile velocity and in favor of torps by NPC MWD use (I know they are supposed to be ABs now but NPC sig is still increased by it for whatever reason) so I will consider these effects canceling each other out. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
cyberamarr	Posted - 2007.01.10 15:57:00 - [9] Cruise Missile's are better! mkay? and i wonder if someone really reads the posts of this guy over me
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:06:00 - [10] Originally by: cyberamarr Cruise Missile's are better! mkay? and i wonder if someone really reads the posts of this guy over me yes. some people actually use their brains. and i, for my part, rather read up on some numbers that are provided to backup a statement, than just believe your single-sentence-statement, without any reasoning or proof whatsoever.

Esaka Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 10/01/2007 15:17:32 Example: Hypotectical 6 Launcher Raven with damage/Rof values of 750/9 (500 DPS) for torps and 500/8.25 (364 DPS) for cruises, exp radii of 400m for torps and 170m for cruise missiles (3 rigor rigs and GMP at 4), and the optional use of two target painters with sig analysis at 4. Shouldn't that be 147m for cruise (300m0.80.85¦)? Guess it wont change much of your calculation though. I guess what would also shift the scenario a bit towards cruise would be Blood Raider instead of Guristas as enemy. Also how does it look if we're not talking about normal cruisers, but hacs with their 74%+ resistance? Originally by: Leandro Salazar This is adjusted in favor of cruise by missile velocity and in favor of torps by NPC MWD use (I know they are supposed to be ABs now but NPC sig is still increased by it for whatever reason) so I will consider these effects canceling each other out. I've been using tech1 torps pretty long, then tech2 torps and atm i'm back to cruise. What i can't stand is that they take so long until they reach their target, so you often need to either micro-manage or waste a round(s) of missiles (and time). Obviously thats also a problem with cruise at a certain distance, but to a much lesser extend. Originally by: Leandro Salazar As for defenders, torps DO get destroyed by them due to low velocity. But with three missile velocity rigs, that can be countered pretty well. Hm, I don't know but I don't think that the speed is really an issues. I got the impression that although they get hit by defenders they just tank it and move on. I've never done a real test though, the only rat where i noticed that it kills my torps was the 2m vengeance rat. I'd be interested to see if somebody has done a full test on how speed influences the rate. -------------------------------------- Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com Evewide Market-Info: http://eve-central.com/
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 16:30:00 - [12] i suggest you train up drones V and drone interfacing III or IV. Drones cut through frigs wicked fast with a few drone interfacing levels, and even cruisers to a lesser extent. With the frigs/cruisers taken care of by the drones that leaves you with torpeados as the best option for crushing the BS spawns. __________________________ Why babelfish is bad mmm k "which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside"
Harotak Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:19:00 - [13] In most missions there aren't very many cruisers, but instead a ton of battlecruisers. And with one painter on a battlecruiser you are doing full damage with torps. I can kill most BCs with one and a half salvos (I split the second salvo between two targets and cycle the painter after the first salvo hits). My corpmate in his CNR can one shot the same BCs using 7 torp launchers.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:31:00 - [14] Originally by: Zixxa Torpedo in Kali just suxx. There is no reason to use torpedoes instead of the cruise. Just forget about torpedoes and be happy. Ah, I was wondering when everyone's favorite brainless little troll would pop up and contribute nothing. As for torps v. cruise, stick with torps. Cruise missiles have their place, and that place is crunching swarms of not-battleships. If you go PvPing in a place that has a load of Bship pilots, like ratters, then pack the big guns. If you like picking off support, load up cruises. Also, drones work wonderfully against just about anything (my heavy drones cut up NPC frigates like they weren't there, even). ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Frater Perdurabo Amarr The Ancient Illuminated Seers of Bavaria	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:39:00 - [15] Funny how the only people saying 'torps suck' are alts with no proof Having just started running missions in a raven myself, ive had a few goes on various missions with t1 cruise and torps to see how they fare. My conclusion is torps ftw. (Thats with all missile skills at lvl4 and t2 med drones for the frigs) ----------------------------------- If my post has offended you in any way, please send me an evemail, i like to keep replies so i can laugh at them again and again...
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:44:00 - [16] Edited by: tiller on 10/01/2007 17:40:59 I timed all sorts of missions and on average t1 cruise were faster with MAXED cruise skills. But a officer tanked / fitted CNR with torps and 2-3 painters might do alot better I suspect.
Auria Ronin	Posted - 2007.01.10 17:57:00 - [17] Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 10/01/2007 17:40:59 I timed all sorts of missions and on average t1 cruise were faster with MAXED cruise skills. But a officer tanked / fitted CNR with torps and 2-3 painters might do alot better I suspect. Yes, you are right. I use officer siege + 2x painters. Do mission a lot faster than officer cruise launcher.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Esaka Shouldn't that be 147m for cruise (300m0.80.85¦)? Guess it wont change much of your calculation though. Warhead Rigor Rig gets stacking penalty, so its roughly 0.85 * 0.87 * 0.91, not 0.85¦. Originally by: Esaka Also how does it look if we're not talking about normal cruisers, but hacs with their 74%+ resistance? Those would indeed shift it quite a bit in favor of cruise missiles, but those HACs are few and far between in most missions. Originally by: Esaka Hm, I don't know but I don't think that the speed is really an issues. I got the impression that although they get hit by defenders they just tank it and move on. I've never done a real test though, the only rat where i noticed that it kills my torps was the 2m vengeance rat. I'd be interested to see if somebody has done a full test on how speed influences the rate. Well Republic Fleet Tempests have a defender rate of 0.4. And they did shoot down about 40% of my T1 torps back when, while they shot down hardly any Jav torps. And the only thing Javs got over T1 is missile velocity, so I would guess it matters. But I could be wrong too. And even if, the velo rigs are still great coz my torps go 3500ish now, with the potential of almost 4000 with better skills and implants. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.01.10 21:21:00 - [19] DPS arent the most accurate way to measure mission times, it's only accurate when you are dealing a continus stream of damage, which could be cut off and instantly reinintialized on the next target. With torps or cruises, each volly deals a fixed amount of damage, if there's only 10 health left on a target it will still take a whole volly to take it down. While you can reduce this effect by launching missiles one by one instead of a volly and time everything in the mission perfectly, there is still the effect of NPC tanking, which makes the time to cut off launcher unpredictable, if you miss killing one NPC you could have wasted the last 2 vollys. Also note that it takes 2 defenders to kill a torpdo and 1 for the cruise missile, if you are shooting enemies with torpedos they can shoot down at most 1 before it reaches target, if you are shooting cruises they could destroy as much as half your volly. From my experience torpedos do better than cruises (BC gets 2 volly by both cruise and torps, but difference in battleship time using cruise vs torps far offset the bc times) The only reason to use cruise imo is for the better tanking and for missions with mostly cruisers Also note that if you do mostly angle missions, their battleships are FAR weaker than Gurista battleships, making cruises more worthwhile.
Esaka Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.10 22:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Originally by: Esaka Shouldn't that be 147m for cruise (300m0.80.85¦)? Guess it wont change much of your calculation though. Warhead Rigor Rig gets stacking penalty, so its roughly 0.85 * 0.87 * 0.91, not 0.85¦. Hm nope, they aren't stack nerfed. I just tried it on test-server to verify. You get the full bonus from each module. -------------------------------------- Agent & Mission-Info: http://www.eveinfo.com Evewide Market-Info: http://eve-central.com/

Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.10 23:43:00 - [21] Hmm I could swear they were stacking nerfed when I last checked them. The velo rigs are stacking nerfed for sure. If the exp radius are not that would make them even more overpowered... Oh well. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Benedita Salvatore	Posted - 2007.01.11 00:18:00 - [22] I remember reading somewhere here in forum that if a missile goes over 7500m/s then defenders from NPC¦s won¦t hit them. Is this true? Does when a NPC defender destroys a missile shows up on the log as it being destroyed or only way to know is count our own missiles hitting? Thanks.
Hotice	Posted - 2007.01.11 00:44:00 - [23] Edited by: Hotice on 11/01/2007 00:41:57 There are only 2 missions torps could out perform cruise, those are blockad and vegeance. In every other missions, cruise missile will do better due to large number of cruisers. Drones are good for frigates. To kill cruisers quickly, you will need heavy drones. Even with drone specilization 4, t2 medium drones still kill cruisers slower than using missiles. So over all, I say cruise missile is the best choice. Once you get below 15km range, npc defender wouldn't be able to kill off your missiles. It is no log that shows if your missiles got killed by npc defenders. You can see it though.
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.11 01:29:00 - [24] Originally by: Hotice There are only 2 missions torps could out perform cruise, those are blockad and vegeance. There are 'a few' more... Like Enemies Abound 1, 3, 4, 5, Duo of Death, Worlds Collide, The XXX Spies... Pretty much all of the ones with good isk/time ratios. And if you use two painters, torps outperform cruise in pretty much EVERY mission that has a battleship in it. Read above for some numbers supporting my claim. Not to mention torps being better not just against BBs but also against BCs. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.11 01:52:00 - [25] what about with no painters? if you cant fit faction and cnr and stuff it can be hard to fit 2 painters
Auria Ronin	Posted - 2007.01.11 03:32:00 - [26] Edited by: Auria Ronin on 11/01/2007 03:28:45 I use 7x siege 1x L smartbomb 2x painter Gist x xl sb 2x invul field 1x cap recharger 3x BCU 1x PDU 1x co-processer 3x cap rigs All top officer modules.
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.11 03:34:00 - [27] Edited by: subvert on 11/01/2007 03:30:40 wow that looks like a nice fit. just curious but does that smartbomb blow up wrecks and your drones too?
Auria Ronin	Posted - 2007.01.11 04:05:00 - [28] Originally by: subvert Edited by: subvert on 11/01/2007 03:30:40 wow that looks like a nice fit. just curious but does that smartbomb blow up wrecks and your drones too? I never use drones, only have missile skills. Use the smartbomb for frig, only problem is destroyer, they are out of smartbomb range, have to use trop, but just 4 torp without painter, w/ 2x painters => 2 torp :D
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.11 06:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Auria Ronin Edited by: Auria Ronin on 11/01/2007 03:28:45 I use 7x siege 1x L smartbomb 2x painter Gist x xl sb 2x invul field 1x cap recharger 3x BCU 1x PDU 1x co-processer 3x cap rigs All top officer modules. I spotted your time for vengeance in mission speed thread and you shaved like over 10mins off my cruise raven time. Dam impressive!
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.11 07:13:00 - [30] Originally by: Auria Ronin I never use drones, only have missile skills. Use the smartbomb for frig, only problem is destroyer, they are out of smartbomb range, have to use trop, but just 4 torp without painter, w/ 2x painters => 2 torp :D cool. Ive never gotten a chance to use SB. I have tech 2 drone skills though and I wouldnt want to harm my little friends

fischsemmel AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:06:00 - [31] Originally by: Benedita Salvatore I remember reading somewhere here in forum that if a missile goes over 7500m/s then defenders from NPC¦s won¦t hit them. Is this true? Does when a NPC defender destroys a missile shows up on the log as it being destroyed or only way to know is count our own missiles hitting? Thanks. My cruises are over 7800 m/s and are regularly destroyed by defenders (if I'm more than 30k away, usually). I think you have to count the number of hits.
Egil Kolsto Caldari Collwood Collective	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:09:00 - [32] Assuming the NPC using said defenders have skill 1, then yeah 7500 is the number to break. However: "Skill with anti-missile missiles.Special: 5% bonus to defender missile max velocity per skill level." 7500 -> 9,375 max...so your cruise will not be safe yet...
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:30:00 - [33] Originally by: Auria Ronin Edited by: Auria Ronin on 11/01/2007 03:28:45 I use 7x siege 1x L smartbomb 2x painter Gist x xl sb 2x invul field 1x cap recharger 3x BCU 1x PDU 1x co-processer 3x cap rigs All top officer modules. And people wonder why we probe mission runners... ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.01.18 17:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Auria Ronin Edited by: Auria Ronin on 11/01/2007 03:28:45 I use 7x siege 1x L smartbomb 2x painter Gist x xl sb 2x invul field 1x cap recharger 3x BCU 1x PDU 1x co-processer 3x cap rigs All top officer modules. And people wonder why we probe mission runners... Hope you plan to take on a ship like that with a small gang. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Crellion Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.18 18:33:00 - [35] Originally by: Majin82 Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Auria Ronin Edited by: Auria Ronin on 11/01/2007 03:28:45 I use 7x siege 1x L smartbomb 2x painter Gist x xl sb 2x invul field 1x cap recharger 3x BCU 1x PDU 1x co-processer 3x cap rigs All top officer modules. And people wonder why we probe mission runners... Hope you plan to take on a ship like that with a small gang. I hope you do it solo in Geddon (well and a cov ops)... so there is a challenge (well limited but still a challenge). Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.18 19:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Crellion Originally by: Majin82 Originally by: Nicocat Originally by: Auria Ronin Edited by: Auria Ronin on 11/01/2007 03:28:45 I use 7x siege 1x L smartbomb 2x painter Gist x xl sb 2x invul field 1x cap recharger 3x BCU 1x PDU 1x co-processer 3x cap rigs All top officer modules. And people wonder why we probe mission runners... Hope you plan to take on a ship like that with a small gang. I hope you do it solo in Geddon (well and a cov ops)... so there is a challenge (well limited but still a challenge). I dunno. They're officer siege missiles, so they fire normal torps. I think I could take it in my Nanophoon with EM sentry drones ;) Smartbombs sting. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Egil Kolsto Caldari Collwood Collective	Posted - 2007.01.18 20:08:00 - [37] The myth about Defenders versus Cruise: In a Raven you cap out at 50% Velocity bonus From Missile Projection another 50% Hardwiring slot 7 - 5% Even if we give optimal stacking of our cruise missile velocity: 3,750 * 1.5 * 1.5 *1.05 =8,859.38 m/s NOT enough to beat Defender level V (npc) speed of 9,375 m/s. To get back to OPs question, the main reason you see so many cruise setups is prob cost of the extreme officer setup to match a similiar mission completion time as a cruise setup would give.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:52:00 - [38] The people backing torps are listing setups that cost in the multiple billions of ISK. So basically it seems to me that Cruise missiles are the way to go for 95-99% of players. Being able to fit 2 target painters is not something most regular players can do, they will get torn to shreds without those extremely expensive officer mods. Even a single painter is hard to fit tanking wise... I know a lot of people who have trouble tanking level 4's in a raven with all their mids going towards tanking and most of their lows (except a few BCS). So trying to say you can give up 3-4 lows for BCS and 2 mids for painters is not something most can do. All that being said I think cruise missiles make more sense overall. The increased speed means long range targets will get hit by the missiles faster, meaning they will die sooner and you will waste less extra volleys. The decrease in wasted volleys is a direct increase in usable dps. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Hindenburg LZ129 Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:31:00 - [39] Originally by: Shadarle The people backing torps are listing setups that cost in the multiple billions of ISK. So basically it seems to me that Cruise missiles are the way to go for 95-99% of players. ... All that being said I think cruise missiles make more sense overall. The increased speed means long range targets will get hit by the missiles faster, meaning they will die sooner and you will waste less extra volleys. The decrease in wasted volleys is a direct increase in usable dps. 1. You can fit a Standard t2 tank with Torps if you leave two highs empty and it's viable for lvl4 missions. Just drop the NOS. However this faction gear is fairly easily afforded by a dedicated lvl4 mission runner. 2. Because the torps do more damage per hit it is easier to accurately gauge how many torps/per target. A mission runner will know how many torps are needed for the ship/distance. Cruisers should be no threat to your Raven anyway. Here's how it goes - warp to deadspace and target the BSs. Kill them with torps. Aggro the rest of the level, launch drones/turn on smartbombs, turn on shield booster, and go make a cup of coffee. If you've just had a coffee sit and direct your drones and target some of the cruisers. Cruise specialization is a bit of a career mistake. It takes longer to train and you end up with a more mediocre, jack-of-all-trades warship. The torp Raven is specialized, and that comes at a price, but that it is a better ship against BS's is not trivial. If you are going to accept the missions with a lot of cruisers/frigs you might prefer to use a Drake or Cerberus anyway. Respectfuly, Hindenburg
AFTRUNX Caldari Human Liberty Syndicate G.U.A.R.D.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:29:00 - [40] the RAVEN is a lot easier to fit with cruise... and you have also enough CPU for 2 damage rigs... fitted my CNR as follow... 7x T2 Siege (normal Torps for SB in range, Javelin Torps for Cruisers and long range ships) 1x Gist X-Type Large 1x SB Amplifier 3x Hardeners 1x Phased Target Painter (with Signature Focusing lvl4) 3x BCS II 2x PDS II 5x Med T2 drones 3x Cap Rigs Work perfect for all lvl4 missions It's great to be a Caldari....

Dragon Lord Caldari research inc	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:18:00 - [41] hmm interesting thread, been getting pretty fast times with my faction fitted cnr, got quite a few entrys on tillers lp farming thread that havent been beaten. With the exception of vengence. However i still have a fair few skills to max and better officer gear to fit so it would be interesting to see what a max pimped cruise cnr could do on a mission vs's a max pimped torp cnr. Btw whats the actual fit u have for getting through vengence so fast?
Solid Prefekt	Posted - 2007.05.30 01:58:00 - [42] Having both Torps and Cruise missiles trained, my personal experience is I complete lvl 4 missions faster with Cruise missiles. When you take into account Guided Missile Precision skill the Cruise missile is even better. Another problem with Torps are they are so slow you have 2-3 volleys in the air before your first volley hits. So, you either have to micro manage or you waste a lot of missile volleys.
Graalum Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.30 04:02:00 - [43] you need much better cruise skills to break bs tanks, but as your skills get better, fittings get better, etc, that time margin falls. In my experience the mass of cruisers are more dangerous than the BS, and always kill frigs and cruisers first.
Brikks	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:17:00 - [44] I have read through this entire post. I have looked at the missile guide a number of times. I have come to the conclusion for me that Cruise are for me and here's why. First off I really only want to pick one. I'm a fairly new player and only want to focus on two ships. One is the Inty which is primarily PvP and the other is of course a Raven battleship. Using my Inty for PvP I also want to be able at time to use my Raven for PvP as well, while also doing PvE missions. With that in mind it's really critical that I pick a launcher type that serves well in both PvE and PvP. From everyone's posts it seems that it's really a toss up between torps and cruises in PvE. The main point is that torps tear through battleships faster. However all missions that I have been on have a large number of frigs and cruisers. Needless to say my drone skills aren't up to par so that's not a real viable option to destroy those. Anyhow bottomline for me I'm going with Cruisers for the versatility in both PvP and mission running. So it takes me a bit longer to kill some battleships, at least I don't have to worry about being jumped by 5 frigs, scramed and picked away to death. I'll get my drone and missile skills up in time, but I think the selling point for me really comes down to the versatility. Oh on a side note I'm talking about small gang PvP and not large scale fleet battles in which I'm sure Torps would be the best option.


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