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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr
Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:16:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: shhmee eeeeee
Originally by: Kalamurii Izanthor
Edited by: Kalamurii Izanthor on 11/01/2007 05:04:52
Honestly, THE ONLY people that argue against this are exploiters that use this exploit themselves..
Exactly mate this post was started because i had the unfortunate Experience of a mega logging at the sight of my huggin and an eso after a 6 jump chase by 1 of are tacklers (he even had a stab fitted) or he would have been tackled to start with!
He then logs an alt on in the same sys and explains how he is not ashamed of logging when he knows heÆs out gunned! I am truly saddened by this increasing trend where people find this kind of thing acceptable.
Well, to be honest, it just as sad to see people not able to take on a fair fight. To many will only fight if they are sure to win. That is also a sad trend and even an older trend.
Not that i condone the logoff tactic, but do look at your own tactics.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: kenny smith
Sadly people in the game feel the need to waist my time and many others by logging off when still cloaked!
Im pretty sure the people logging off on you feel the same about your gate camps. 
You intend to spoil their fun by killing their ships and they counter by spoiling your fun with a log off.
Anyone argueing to keep the system as it is will get flamed anyway no matter what...
And yes i will use the tactic anytime i want to avoid combat because my cargo is to expensiv to throw it away or i simply aint see any chances to win. 
I certainly dont see a point in risking my hard earned stuff to such a nuisance as a gate camp.
-------------------------------------------------------
Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that. 
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Daelise Seryu
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Posted - 2007.02.27 22:03:00 -
[33]
For any legitimate online gaming problem there becomes those who will attempt to use it as a tactic. Logging off to save one's hide is one of the oldest ones, even in games where PVP isn't possible. Both sides are of this argument hold similar arguments, too: waste of time and effort. But as long as there is the possibility of disconnection from power outage, network crash, server transfer (yeah, changing sessions in CCP's servers can sometimes lead to disconnects), virus/spyware activation (network bandwidth overload), or the myriad other possibilities - there simply won't be the possibility of camping out at a stargate to just pick on a cargo-hauler flawlessly.
The best solution to this is to actually utilize more npcs doing the same thing the players are doing. Sure, there's no 'joy' of blasting a player, but there is still the chance of getting some good cargo to pawn from them utilizing the shoot first and trade later tactic. After all npcs CAN'T LOG OFF, they'll never evade capture through system exploits or coincidental accidents. So try petitioning more npc activity and less on an argument that just isn't going to be won. You may actually begin to get some better play value the way you want, just not exactly the way you want. And maybe once gate campers start seeing npcs as a viable alternative to spending their time, maybe then players moving freight won't feel that it's all just some bullying tactic and there won't be as much of the problem of logging off to escape.
Granted, another fact to take into consideration is that most PVPers aren't just willing to fire on a pod, they're anxious to do it. This behavior clearly works against the arguments that it's being done to get some good loot. With the exception of collecting player bounties, the only reason to shoot down a pod is to intentionally wipe out implants on a character. Expensive loss, plus the loss in training times... No, I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to lose training time just because some nut with a gun's got a jonesing for grief-play. Bounties equals ISK, no bounty equals jerk, plain and simple.
Sorry if this all comes off as rude or inconsolable, but the internet is what it is and my opinion's based on evaluation of gameplay motivation. Neither one's going to change regardless of the arguments given.
Hopefully some middle-ground or alternative can be found, because what you're asking for just doesn't seem plausible. |
Qolde
Minmatar
Rising Knights
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:13:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Miss Mickey
Ok, how about something better, rather than changing logoff mechanics,
When you jump into a system, you spawn 1AU randomly from the gate.
Best solution so far, but I think 1 au is WAYYY too much. I'd say 500 km at most since that would give anyone a 25% chance of being outside of sniper BS range. I know some interdictor griefers will complain, but maybe if this is implemented, CCP could allow bubbles in low sec empire instead of just 0.0. I'm cool with gambling my ship at each jump, but I am NOT cool with going up against a sure loss as most gate camps tend to be for someone not looking for a fight. I use my alt to avoid them now. No matter what griefers do, the general population will do whatever they can to counter it, if you look at the history. They will complain NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. They complained about indies with MWDs, instas, log off tactics(this is the only one that is moderately lame IMO, depending on the circumstance). Whatever nerf they beg CCP for this time will make matters worse again, so griefers should just learn to keep it quiet unless they can't get any kills. In my opinion, most logoffski tactics are fair. If you would rather not play than lose a ship, and you haven't been aggressed, by all means log off. This includes jumping into a gate camp. But if you get scrammed, in my opinion you probably have commited to battle either of the wits(trying to escape anyway) or brawn(shooting), and your ship shouldn't just warp off if you log.
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VoYvod
Amarr
Pirates of Destruction Union
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.28 00:14:00 -
[35]
i think some of yous are missing the point, if you probe them out - scram them - start shooting them , they sometimes dissapear, they just vanish if you don't kill it fast enough (got like 30 seconds to kill them) , happens to me all the time and i'm quite sick of it aswell 
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Nim9i5
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Posted - 2007.02.28 03:31:00 -
[36]
all this means is smash alliance is trying to gank noobs who dont want a fight 
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Reina Rashar
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Posted - 2007.02.28 17:16:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Kalamurii Izanthor
Edited by: Kalamurii Izanthor on 11/01/2007 05:04:52
Honestly, THE ONLY people that argue against this are exploiters that use this exploit themselves..
There is a very simple fix to this whole thing that everyone is overlooking. Stop camping gates for easy kills because you guys don't have the skill to hunt someone down and kill them like real honorable players. So what if you have to chase someone across ten systems, that should be part of the fun. Now that I know this can be done I will start using this as a get away tactic for all gate camps. If you don't have the motivation to actively hunt then you shouldn't get credit for kills.
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Ahz
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Posted - 2007.03.19 20:44:00 -
[38]
Starcraft keeps track of a player's wins / losses / disconnects. Maybe one way to address the problem would be to for the server to log all disconnects under combat conditions. This could then become a feature of the charactor's info (like their security status). It won't stop the behavior but it will shame the person who does it.
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Sirenia Daptari
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Posted - 2007.03.20 12:26:00 -
[39]
I'm a 56k modem gamer (I know, but whatever) so once every few days I'll have a random disconnect... I disconnected in a mission deadspace once and when I reconnected again I saw it warping me in from a large distance, giving me ample time for the computer to process everything. Was very nice, especially for my slow connection. :) Just hoping that CCP doesn't penalize those of us with cruddy connections. ;)
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Gridan
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Posted - 2007.03.20 13:27:00 -
[40]
Nerf logoffs but more importantly, nerf lame gate-camps. Im talking the ones where 5-10 people sit there waiting for their noble "hard-earned" 10v1 vs some semi-afk innocent traveler in his shuttle. |
Mabek Xia
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Posted - 2007.03.20 22:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gridan
Nerf logoffs but more importantly, nerf lame gate-camps. Im talking the ones where 5-10 people sit there waiting for their noble "hard-earned" 10v1 vs some semi-afk innocent traveler in his shuttle.
Agreed. Sitting at a chokepoint where you have a gauranteed win sounds pretty lame. And yes logging off is lame but I do it to avoid gatecamps. why? Because gatecamp = 100% chance of losing for a noob like me. Logging = good chance noone loses anything I think.
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.03.20 23:15:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Mabek Xia
Originally by: Gridan
Nerf logoffs but more importantly, nerf lame gate-camps. Im talking the ones where 5-10 people sit there waiting for their noble "hard-earned" 10v1 vs some semi-afk innocent traveler in his shuttle.
Agreed. Sitting at a chokepoint where you have a gauranteed win sounds pretty lame. And yes logging off is lame but I do it to avoid gatecamps. why? Because gatecamp = 100% chance of losing for a noob like me. Logging = good chance noone loses anything I think.
Boo hoo.
Lets speak some truth here before the lamer comes.
1. Gate camps can only take place in 0.4 or below:
Avoiding a gate camp is easier than breathing, DON'T GO INTO LOW SEC.
2. Gate camps frequently end in your death:
Don't jump into low sec, ITS CALLED LOW-SECURITY SPACE FOR A REASON.
3. Logging off while cloaked when encountering a gate camp:
Wrong. YOU decided to leap into a LOW SECURITY SYSTEM, YOU should pay the price.
Solution:
Player jumps.
Player encounters Gate Camp (GC)
Player logs. (Timer starts, 60 seconds)
Player decloaks and attempts to warp off. (50 seconds)
GC starts shooting player (TIMER RESET, 15 MINUTES COMBAT TIMER ACTIVATES).
Player loses ship to GC.
That is the only acceptable solution.
n.b. This new system would ONLY apply to Gates, as anyone logging off in combat anywhere else isn't cloaked and is probably going to die anyway.
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Mabek Xia
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
Boo hoo.
Lets speak some truth here before the lamer comes.
1. Gate camps can only take place in 0.4 or below:
Avoiding a gate camp is easier than breathing, DON'T GO INTO LOW SEC.
2. Gate camps frequently end in your death:
Don't jump into low sec, ITS CALLED LOW-SECURITY SPACE FOR A REASON.
3. Logging off while cloaked when encountering a gate camp:
Wrong. YOU decided to leap into a LOW SECURITY SYSTEM, YOU should pay the price.
Solution:
Player jumps.
Player encounters Gate Camp (GC)
Player logs. (Timer starts, 60 seconds)
Player decloaks and attempts to warp off. (50 seconds)
GC starts shooting player (TIMER RESET, 15 MINUTES COMBAT TIMER ACTIVATES).
Player loses ship to GC.
That is the only acceptable solution.
n.b. This new system would ONLY apply to Gates, as anyone logging off in combat anywhere else isn't cloaked and is probably going to die anyway.
Under that reasoning why doest the whole community just camp gates in all 0.4 and less space. No travel . No trade. No game.
Risk in travel is part of the game, totally understandable and as it should be. But there should be some form of risks for GC's.
"Boo Hoo" you wasted you time sitting at a gate perfectly safe then cried when you got nothing out of it.
If you are gaurding a gate for control of the system well then heck ask your corp pay you for boring gaurd duty.
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Mabek Xia
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Posted - 2007.03.21 04:31:00 -
[44]
Just an idea. I think a simple solution would be to have ships pulverized if destoyed near stargates. None of thier modules/cargo are conserved. This way gatecamps will go on but theyll be more inclined to behave like a toll booth rather then whatever the heck it is they do atm.
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Kitiara Armitage
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Posted - 2007.03.21 08:45:00 -
[45]
sorry but I have to disagree, it would completely defeat the purpose of the emergency warp out, and people crash while in space far more often than they log out to escape you, sorry. :P
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.03.21 13:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Mabek Xia
Under that reasoning why doest the whole community just camp gates in all 0.4 and less space. No travel . No trade. No game.
Risk in travel is part of the game, totally understandable and as it should be. But there should be some form of risks for GC's.
"Boo Hoo" you wasted you time sitting at a gate perfectly safe then cried when you got nothing out of it.
If you are gaurding a gate for control of the system well then heck ask your corp pay you for boring gaurd duty.
The reason people go Low sec is for the better isk yields the NPC trades bring or to ferry in mods/ships/ammo for the low-sec'ers or the missions.
And Gate camping isn't entirely without risk, another load of GC'ers could come through and try and pop you. Or the anti-pies. You can't say GC is totally without risk.
And sorry, but Logging Off when you encounter gate camps is BLATENT EXPLOIT, avoiding combat BY EXTERNAL MEASURES. CCP MUST fix this bloody exploit.
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Randolf Sightblinder
Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.03.21 16:55:00 -
[47]
With Local and alts gatecamping IS nearly riskless.
1. Pirates don't lose enough in being pirates, there's are reason you people are called gankbears.
2. It is to easy to communicate with a caracter outside your corp. If you have someone in a covops on the other side of the gate or gates sitting there cloaked and warning you fine. But being able to setup a noob corp alt to watch the gate that can't be decked or killed (in high sec and most camps are either high to low, or on mission systems almost no where else). You are one person thats all you should be in game as well and yes I know due to nat and similar you can't really regulate logins.
3. And with 2 it should be easier to see who someone is ganged with and maybe even communicating with after all the ftl coms everyone uses all go through a central network. And I'm sure that 0.0 people would love knowing about the spies and alts running around in unaligned corps.
With some of the recent patch changes I've seen I think its close to a good balance. People should ewarp when they lose connection but not if scrammed or bubbled by players (npcs yes but not players). However nothing that happens after a player logs should change the timers that player has on him. He should go "LD" and then leave as if he had logged in space. No shooting a disconnected player should not give them a 15 minute timer but if you can kill him in the time it takes for his ship to go he's popped.
What I will say is that if you have people who regularly "crash" when they jump into your camp or do the logon logoff trick to get farther and farther away then it IS an exploit and should be petitioned as such.
Randlof
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Chruker
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:33:00 -
[48]
Didn't you guys read the patch notes?
The emergency warp (when logging off) no longer works inside warp bubbles.
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CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks. Edit: On the test server you can now salvage wrecks with loot. After a succesfull salvage the loot is left in a jetcan. |
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