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Guide to Resistance Rig and Resistance Module Stacking Panelties.

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Pistonbroke D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.20 20:56:00 - [31] Not useless. Last night I was made primary in a fleet engagement. - I was in a jamming scorpion whose only resistances came from a named Damage control and from rigs. As we had only just warped in I still had to align when the overview lit up. With 20 or so ships hitting me, the additional resistance I had meant that when I warped, although I was into hull, my shields had kept me alive, and by that I mean the additional resistances that the rigs provided. I think I paid between 10 and 14 mill per rig. Absolute bargain.
Hyperforce99 Gallente Strike Force I Omega Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.21 22:16:00 - [32] Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 21/01/2007 22:14:22 Originally by: Zoe Sedai That's really much less than I was hoping for, especially at the cost of 1/3 my speed. Can anyone confirm these numbers are correct? the EANM II's have more resistance bonus than your rig, meaning that after your Exp. Hardener and your EANM II your Expl. Rig with 15% is 3de in line, the DC II is 4th in line and therefor nearly useless for the Exp. bonus.
Luthair StoneDog Gallente Turbulent Subversion	Posted - 2007.01.24 05:17:00 - [33] I find it extremely useful to install a rig to increase resistance on a damage type I am not tanking with a module. For example, most armour tankers will not actively tank EM. This can often mean that EM is actually the lowest resist, as if you buy a faction hardener, it'll generally be explosive. If you install an Anti-EM pump, you'll greatly reduce the need for an EANM, leaving a low slot open for a damage mod or cap module.
Duke Silas UK1 Zero Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.25 13:38:00 - [34] The point about adding a rig to free up a mid slot is very important for smaller ships (AFs). I add an anti-kinetic rig to my Jaguar Assualt frigates to increase its lowest resist. This gives resists of 91/60/68/62 (with skills). With an active hardner such as the M-15 braced (25% bonus to each resist) the Jaguar becomes a very effective T2 tackler. The extra resist gives a little more time to get the tackler into scram/web range, but more importantly frees up that extra mid slot for fitting an extra scram/webber.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2007.01.29 00:18:00 - [35] I find the following info to be useful when working out stacking stuff. 1st mod = 100% bonus (IE an EANM with full skills gives 25% to everything) 2nd mod = approx 80% bonus (EANM gives 20%) 3rd mod = approx 50% bonus (EANM gives 12.5%) 4th mod = less than 20% bonus (EANM gives 5%) Anything more than 3 mods that affect the same attribute is therefore fairly useless, unless you're at 980dps and want that shiny 4th digit. From this, anybody with a brain can work out that although 3 EANMIIs or 3 Invul IIs looks pretty cool, you will actually get a much better (rig) tank out of using one of each hardner and then one of each rig. Has the added benifit of being cheaper. The only module not affected by the stacking penalty (including gang mods - denerf please?) is the damage control. The info in this post is vague, approximate, rough, and nice and easy to understand for people who like pew pewing more than long and complicated maths. sgb
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm X-PACT	Posted - 2007.02.01 21:53:00 - [36] Originally by: Hyperforce99 the EANM II's have more resistance bonus than your rig, meaning that after your Exp. Hardener and your EANM II your Expl. Rig with 15% is 3de in line, the DC II is 4th in line and therefor nearly useless for the Exp. bonus. This is not true. For a single resist, an EANM II adds 25% with max compensation skill, the rig adds 30%. Also a DCU is NOT stacking nerfed.
LordKain The Scope	Posted - 2007.02.05 10:44:00 - [37] I just made a few tuner data interfaces and I 've produced some qty of t2 rigs bpc like armor and shield mainly. Nobody wants to buy it :((( The essential reasons are: 1. price per unit 2. calibration 3. small differents between t1 rigs ad1 cost of effective inventing and manufacturing is still too much ad2 400 calibration max (BS) has excluded to fit more than 2pcs of rigs t2, so many ppl want to fit 3x t1 rigs ad3 stats of t2 rigs between stats of t1 rigs are more less 5%, mainly. Many of them are penaltied. Conclusion: Nobody is interested in purchasing any t2 rigs, unless hacking or archeology t2 rigs, because of 40% bonus per one (2x more than t1). Thus rigs are worth this price. So I wanna ask CCP for considering new better features of t2 rigs. Who signes?
no1knowsWho Diplomatic Disruption	Posted - 2007.02.08 10:37:00 - [38] Edited by: no1knowsWho on 08/02/2007 10:43:30 great post. appreciate effort one thing: Originally by: Hyperforce99 Explosive Armor Compensation (lvl3) (Boosts armor resistance on (in) Active Hardeners by 5% per Level) (actual) hardeners when they are not active get 3%. 5% applies to passive tanking equipment (energized and resistance plating). now, im not sure what happens with (actual) hardeners bonus once they are activated: do they still get 3% per comp skill level or 5% or maybe it's neglected due to their regular, active bonus. it's not clearly stated in comp skill discription. so you may want adjust your calculations. feel free to correct me. anyways thanks for posting.
Neuromandis EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.02.08 12:25:00 - [39] Originally by: no1knowsWho now, im not sure what happens with (actual) hardeners bonus once they are activated: do they still get 3% per comp skill level or 5% or maybe it's neglected due to their regular, active bonus. it's not clearly stated in comp skill discription. so you may want adjust your calculations. feel free to correct me. Nothing happens. Unless you are nossed dry and they deactivate, active hardeners get nothing. Zilch. That's why unless you make passive fits, shield compensations are nothing. Even when passive, the bonus is not all that great (15%? come on...)
no1knowsWho Diplomatic Disruption	Posted - 2007.02.08 13:33:00 - [40] Edited by: no1knowsWho on 08/02/2007 13:30:57 Originally by: Neuromandis (...), shield compensations are nothing.(...) we are talking about armor comp skills unless the same rules and bonuses apply to shield comp skills (never shield tanked before)
Panzer Goddess Friendly Hostility	Posted - 2007.02.09 17:20:00 - [41] Originally by: Zoe Sedai Awesome post! You did leave me with a few questions however. Did you try using 3 x Anti-Explosive Rigs with 3 EANM II's and possibly a DCU II to see what your total resists are? I'm wondering if the overall resists across the board wouldn't be higher with that setup than with 1 each of the Kin/Therm/Exp rigs, 1 each of the Kin/Therm/Exp hardeners and a DCU II. EM would certainly be through the roof, but I'm not sure how the stacking would be on the rest. Thanks again for the informative post in reply for your question. On a gallente mega, hyb with 10% starting explosive resists. 2 anti explosive rigs + 1 EANM II and 1 DC 2 will give you over 80% resist if you have lvl 4 on your explosive comp.
Zaphroid Eulthran Minmatar Imperial Visions	Posted - 2007.02.18 17:37:00 - [42] How does this affect shield tanks? All the posts so far seem to concern Armour. The compensation skills do not affect the active shield hardeners, So I assume it is best to fit a rig for resistances you do not fit modules for? Does the Invun field stack with a rig or is it different? Warning, sig starts here, Imperial Visions, Now 524885 seconds since our last fatality
Athlonman Amarr O.E.C	Posted - 2007.02.25 01:10:00 - [43] Edited by: Athlonman on 25/02/2007 01:07:22 Ok, not sure if this is a bug or not but it looks like you get RIG OR SHIP resistance increase, but not both. I installed an Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I and an Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I on my Hulk. Well, the rig resists took precidence over the Hulk's resists for Mining Barge 5...37.5% EM Base (46.88% MB5) 50% Thermal Base (57.5% MB5). With both rigs on, only get 56.25% EM (Base + Rig Bonus, NO MB5 Bonus) and 65% Thermal (Base + Rig Bonus, NO MB5 Bonus). Is this correct? I was expecting to get 62.81% EM and 70.25% Thermal...oh well...
Lucius Amarriantis Amarr Ordo Occultus Deus THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.03.01 10:09:00 - [44] Can anyone advise on how stacking is going to apply to this setup as im just not getting what half of yoiu are on about sorry, plus the minute youi mention shields yoiuve lost me - never trained a shield skill in meh life. Resists boosts are as follows 2 x True Sansha EANM 1 x True Sansha Armor Explosive Hardener 1 x True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener 1 x True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener 1 x Anti-Kinetic Pump 1 x Anti-Thermal Pump 1 x Anti-Explosive Pump From what I can read the second EANM is nerfed to the point of pointless? Or am i wrong? Just loking for some clarification Cheers Lucius
sweetheart Black Reign FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.01 14:36:00 - [45] How about a Megathron with : 1 x Kinetic Rig 1 x Thermal Rig 1 x 55% Active Explosive Hardner 1 x T2 EANM 1 x T2 Damage Control With all Armour Compensation Skills @ lvl 4 .. do the compensation skills work on Rigs etc ? Whats wasted on this set-up , and what isn't . I am looking for an answer please in lehmans terms TY . .............................................. To Win is Everything
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.03.02 14:38:00 - [46] I think I may be misunderstanding something. I thought single resistance boosters did not stack with or agenst multi resistance boosters. Do RIGs walk outside of this law or is my understanding of this law incorrect.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.07 17:41:00 - [47] If I'm understanding this right, my explosive resist on my Tempest should go from 59.5% to just under 72%? This is with t1 Exp Hardener, Exp Rig, and DCU. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Dash43 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.03.09 02:22:00 - [48] To be totally honest I think everyone here is missing the point of rigs. A previous poster did suggest, and I agree, that rigs are designed to free up that extra slot. Certainly there will be occasion where the combination of rigs and mods of the same group will be effective, but bottom line is, I believe rigs are designed to compliment a ships strength/weakness. For example....Amarr ships weakness is definately thier ability to run hardners and reps continuously, so therefore cap rigs are the obvious choice. This is not saying that all other rigs become redundant, but I do think its a case of mix and match for different situations. In other words to put all ya eggs in one basket (resistence 4tw ) may very well negate another area of your ship fitting that would benefit you more. I personally run an Absolution for lvl4 mission running and have a mix of resistence and rep coupled with rigs that give me an extra mid slot (cap relay) but also gives the equivelant of running a duel t2 rep.....the point being run rigs as a compliment to your setup.....think outside the box. /Dash
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.03.09 06:02:00 - [49] Originally by: Thor Xian If I'm understanding this right, my explosive resist on my Tempest should go from 59.5% to just under 72%? This is with t1 Exp Hardener, Exp Rig, and DCU. Put the rig in, and this is indeed the case. _________________________ ~Thor Xian, Material Defender Got Corp?
Armin Novastorm Gallente I-Omniscient-I	Posted - 2007.03.10 06:58:00 - [50] Well the answers to all your questions are in the guides penned by the CCP staff... now if I could just locate them... (Note the above is complete sarcasm)
TacCom	Posted - 2007.03.12 05:16:00 - [51] Originally by: no1knowsWho Edited by: no1knowsWho on 08/02/2007 13:30:57 Originally by: Neuromandis (...), shield compensations are nothing.(...) we are talking about armor comp skills unless the same rules and bonuses apply to shield comp skills (never shield tanked before) Same rules apply last I checked.
Lusian	Posted - 2007.04.06 06:16:00 - [52] What ever rigs i put on my ships i apply it to the resistance my ship has the least of. that way i know i am getting my rigs worth then just ading toa resistance that will be greatly nerfed around 10% and further nerfed from there. Hardeners work great in areas where you have the least resistance. If you take an active hardener to a resistance that has none then your automatically get 50 % or 32 % or what ever it is because that will be the base resistance. Good odd i think. then i just add energized resistance from there when i go pvping and killing off incoming bandits that want to ruin me and my ally's day because they want a good gank. so my rigs and active mods work great together. never had any problems, inface it leave me with ectra moduels thati would have never been able to use in the past. So yes rigs are not useless infact they might safe ur ship, or even better, (your pod).
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.02 14:49:00 - [53] Originally by: Gaogan Also a DCU is NOT stacking nerfed. Unfortunately that is no longer true; a DCU is stacking nerfed.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.05.02 16:27:00 - [54] I mean this with no offence to the original poster of this thread but.. why did this get stickied? It's not a guide, it's just a set of statistics and flawed arguments/ideas interspersed with lines filled with dashes and text that is hard to follow and read. He ignores the fact that other rigs such as the repair amount rig or shield booster cap use rig can be used instead of resistance rigs and therefore concludes that they're good to use with one or two hardeners active. He makes comparisons based on actual resistance value when he should be using DPS tanked per unit repaired because that increases exponentially with increasing linear resistance. It leads to his comparisons being a lot less useful. He has even apparantly gotten basic concepts wrong like stacking penalty. Bonuses added to one resistance which are to be stacking penalised are arranged from largest to smallest. The first bonus is not penalised, the second is 86.91% effective (I usually abbreviate to 87%), the third is 57.06% effective, the fourth 28.3%, the fifth 10.6%, the sixth 3%, the seventh 0.64% and the eighth 0.1%. Using these values produces different results than are published in this post. Normally I wouldn't be one to complain about someone else's thread but it's spreading misinformation about tanking. I've become increasingly annoyed with people telling me resistance rigs are the bee's knees when they are next to useless compared to other rigs that use just as many components to build. Very few people have called him on it or challenged his posts because someone felt the need to sticky it but the majority of his posts are wrong or irrelevant. And don't get me started on this "(in)active hardener" stuff. Can we please get this unstickied? Or would I have to write my own guide for the forum before that could be done? Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.02 17:51:00 - [55] Edited by: Trishan on 02/05/2007 17:51:12 Edited by: Trishan on 02/05/2007 17:48:46 Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Trishan Originally by: Gaogan Also a DCU is NOT stacking nerfed. Unfortunately that is no longer true; a DCU is stacking nerfed. That's not true at all. Damage Control Units are still not stacking nerfed. Why would you post that without even checking? I have checked. Today. And that's why I'm posting. Note that by that I mean that if a ship has explosive resistance 60%, a DCU will give you 63% and not 67%.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.05.02 18:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Trishan I have checked. Today. And that's why I'm posting. Note that by that I mean that if a ship has explosive resistance 60%, a DCU will give you 63% and not 67%. So the poster that said the DCU would be useless as a 4th module would be right and the bonus that would give you would be laughable. I logged in and checked before posting, it's working just fine and isn't stacking penalised. If your ship has 60% explosive resist and you use a T2 damage control, you'll get 15% to all armour resistances, giving you a new explosive resistance of exactly 66. Anything other than that is a bug. I know for a fact that the DCU is not meant to be stacking penalised and I physically tested it today and it wasn't penalised. Tell me exactly what ship you're using, what rigs, what modules and what your resistance is after activating all hardeners except the DCU, then your resistance after activating the DCU. Without that, I can't confirm if it's being stacking penalised. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.02 22:17:00 - [57] Nyphur, from my previous post and your reply I believe we are looking at the same thing at two different angles. I am looking at the fact that it stacks over other resistances, and you are looking at the fact that there's no accumulated penalty. And that is why you find people who say DCU is stacking nerfed. Because the resistance bonuses are not sumed to the existing values, but applied as a percent.
Nyphur Pillowsoft	Posted - 2007.05.03 09:29:00 - [58] Originally by: Trishan Nyphur, from my previous post and your reply I believe we are looking at the same thing at two different angles. I am looking at the fact that it stacks over other resistances, and you are looking at the fact that there's no accumulated penalty. And that is why you find people who say DCU is stacking nerfed. Because the resistance bonuses are not sumed to the existing values, but applied as a percent. Resistances are always applied as a percentage bonus of the remaining difference between the current resistance and 100%. The reason for this is simple. If you have 0% resistance and you add a 50% hardener, you get a resistance of 50%, which halves incoming damage. If you have a starting resistance of 50% and add a 50% hardener, you get 50% of the difference between the current resistance and 100, which is 25. So you get a resistance of 75%. You might THINK that this hardener has given less of a bonus but it hasn't, because with 75% resistance compared to 50% resistance, you take half damage just as you dd between 0% and 50%. This isn't stacking penalty. Stacking penalty is when a module has its actual bonus reduced. An example is if you have two 50% EM shield hardeners. Common sense would tell us that you start with 0%, so the first puts you at 50% and the second brings you up to 75%. In reality, the second hardener gets stacking penalised and is only 87% effective, making the two hardeners applied 50% and 43.5%. The final resistance is 71.75%. Bonuses added to one resistance which are to be stacking penalised are arranged from largest to smallest. The first bonus is not penalised, the second is 86.91% effective (I usually abbreviate to 87%), the third is 57.06% effective, the fourth 28.3%, the fifth 10.6%, the sixth 3%, the seventh 0.64% and the eighth 0.1%. Damage Control Units and gang modules are exempt from this stacking penalty. Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.17 11:49:00 - [59] The biggest problem I see on this is that although people throw numbers about, they don't say how it relates to the real game. First of all: As the last poster said, resistances are applied as percentages. Also remember, the more important thing is not what percent is resisted, but what percent of damage is taken, which is 100%-resisted % That means that for each bonus (discounting stacking penalties), the formula for percent damage taken equals [1-A][1-B][1-C] etc. Second: The more important thing is how it converts to life. You take the inverse of your end percent damage taken (after converting it to a decimal), and that tells you how much more effective 1 point of armor/shields/hull is. Third: Resistance rigs probably are useless, since there are other rigs which will take care of, say, a capacitor recharger, allowing you to fit a resistance mod, and thus are more effective. Fourth: DCU, DCU, DCU. These things do NOT suffer from the stacking penalty (though the bonuses are still multiplied, not added), they take only 1 cap per 30 seconds, and increase shield and armor resists by from about 10-15% (depending on DCU quality), and increases all hull resistances by 50-60%. Stats on a DCU II are 12.5% shield resists, 15% armor, and 60% hull. These modules are sort of a poor man's DCU/invuln field, and serve great as "oh **" modules, as is they will double the amount of time your hull survives, allowing you more time to get the ** outta there (you are warping already, aren't you?) ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Jim Hsu Teeth Of The Hydra R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.24 03:39:00 - [60] Edited by: Jim Hsu on 24/05/2007 03:40:48 Edited by: Jim Hsu on 24/05/2007 03:39:47 Edited by: Jim Hsu on 24/05/2007 03:37:48 Before talking anymore about stacking, please see my post from a while back or better yet use Evegeek's calculator (http://www.evegeek.com/). Resistance rigs are simply treated as additional hardeners. As can be seen from a simple graph, the "inflection point" of the stacking graph is 3 ... in other words, you get the greatest penalties after the applying any more modules after the 3rd one. (I worked out the stupid math so that other people don't have to.) -- If you're a math wizard, help me here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=255750&page=1 :)

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