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Yarek Balear
The Initiative
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Posted - 2007.01.11 09:11:00 -
[31]
I have to say that, on a personal level, while pirating I thought that the Pirate Coalition was a great idea. It should not, imo, have dictated any centre of operations because by definition pirates want to be free to do what they want to do.
The idea of solo piracy is nice, but lets face it - it's extremely hard to do in any profitable way, which is what pirates are after - profit. The one thing a pirate alliance could provide would be if there were other similar pirates following the same code in the same area is some assistance when the anti-pies got frisky, or to take down bigger loot. This should be done by agreement between the pirates and not have any edict brought upon them by someone with an agenda - that's when it ceases to be a pirate alliance and becomes a PVP alliance.
Just my tuppence..
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50freefly
Caldari Purify
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:25:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Yarek Balear I have to say that, on a personal level, while pirating I thought that the Pirate Coalition was a great idea. It should not, imo, have dictated any centre of operations because by definition pirates want to be free to do what they want to do.
The idea of solo piracy is nice, but lets face it - it's extremely hard to do in any profitable way, which is what pirates are after - profit. The one thing a pirate alliance could provide would be if there were other similar pirates following the same code in the same area is some assistance when the anti-pies got frisky, or to take down bigger loot. This should be done by agreement between the pirates and not have any edict brought upon them by someone with an agenda - that's when it ceases to be a pirate alliance and becomes a PVP alliance.
Just my tuppence..
Wrong thread.
Oh, and try solo ANTI-pirating. Talk about non profit...
Originally by: Eight Ace For reasons that have been lost in the mists of time all caldari ships are designed by two people. One does the left hand side and the other does the right.
And they never meet.
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Malcanis
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:35:00 -
[33]
"1. Historically, Pirates did not go out of their way to hunt each other. They were mainly interested in merchant shipping, capturing it's cargo and if time and conditions permitted, the ship itself as a 'prize'.
It almost seemed as if there were an unspoken rule about engaging each other."
Yeah the rule being: don't attack ships as heavily armed as yourself and likely with even less loot.
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PCaBoo
Newbies On Xstacy
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Posted - 2007.01.11 11:42:00 -
[34]
but it's flashing red, begging to be attacked!
________________________________ Caldari's are the Chosen people! |
Rufless
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Posted - 2007.01.11 12:47:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Rufless on 11/01/2007 12:45:55 What about "No honor among thieves"?
What about pirates squabbling over the booty they got?
Pirating is the least trustworthy profession. It follows no rules or ethics of civilized society. The only leaders of a pirate gang are the people who are most feared (feared enough to stop the other pirates from mutiny). They respect only strength in their leadership and any show of weakness is exploited.
Historically, pirates would tend to attack the fat cats (merchant ships) to get the best bounty. But they would eliminate any obstacle to their personal wealth gain that presented itself be it a crewmate or a pirate competitor.
I mean all of that as a compliment by the way as it is an interesting addition to the Eve Universe. Not as an affront to Eve pirates.
To be honest, I think that there should be more turmoil within the ranks of the pirate organizations that exist in Eve right now. A healthy injection of skullduggery would be a pretty exciting thing to see. Pirates may need each other to take down targets but they each should consider the ways that they can profit over their compatriots.
I think in terms of the meanness to their victims, they have embraced the spirit of pirating on the high stars but not in their relations to other pirates.
I did read the PC thing but that was more of a Alliance type of story rather than a Pirate type of story.
Edit: To give an example. A pirate that rebels against the leader of the group in any way, shape or form should be shot out of the sky to make an example of him to other pirates considering the same route. If the leader doesn't, a mutiny would be in order to replace the leader with a stronger one.
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RavenofAzerath
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.01.11 13:49:00 -
[36]
When encountering another pirate, or anyone else really, I usually stay quiet in local. Lets face it I dont want to attract unwanted intervention, but if its just me and him/her/it I might engage in a converstation about anything really. Or we might decide to have a scrim or something.
Either way nothing usually happens unless the pirate concerned is just looking for a fight not money :) --------------------------- I'm not a pirate. Yarr!
If in doubt spam ECM |
Zafriel
TunDraGon
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Posted - 2007.01.11 13:55:00 -
[37]
Firstly, I believe that pirates did infact go out of their way to kill each other, there was really never any need for two pirates to hook up unless they were going to raid the coast, and it only takes one pirate to attach a merchant vessel.
I do believe that pirates would not go to war on the sea, as someone else mentioned...what would be the point of attacking another heavily armed ship with your own, it was more of cut throats, mutiny inspired by other captains and ships boarded in the middle of the night with crews slain and the ship 'purchased' in the pirate way.
true, pirates did group up for raiding costs and ports, history is full of these incidents, but these pirates did not stay allied to one another for long...maybe some strong relationships were forged between some captains, but Im sure if it were ever to come loot then even brothers would have a face off...which would have been instigated by the crewe as they are the ones who chose the captain.
Now, as for eve. I personally dont go out of my way to kill pirates, but if i see one sniping or one gets on my overview then Im going to attack.
With my alt though I tend to hunt with other random pirates, usually nooby pirates as my alt is only newish with about 1.4mil sp. I think I go type fighting with other people on my alt because I figure I have less to lose and actually dont mind losing a ship or two, but with Tenacha Im a bit more careful and like to hunt with only people in my corp or the good friends Ive made outside the corp.
I have a bob sig^^ |
Rihannah
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.11 14:55:00 -
[38]
In short and to sum up
A KILL is a KILL
I prefer fighting other pirates, better fights usually
************************* 5 Seconds means 5 Seconds
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:06:00 -
[39]
Ethics and morality is null and void in EVE as a pirate.
You kill to make money, you do it together with some friends to be able to engage juicier targets.
That's about how far it goes, you don't betray your own. Everyone else if fair game.
[OMG! SMASH!] |
Subotai Doom
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Posted - 2007.01.11 15:06:00 -
[40]
Ok I didn't read all the thread cause well it was to repeatitive.
Historically Pirates choose thier targets based on risk vs reward and the good captains usually lent an ear to thier crews regarding it.
In Eve-Online you really don't have a crew to speak of. We have gotten so far advanced that 1 person can fly a Titan for god's sake. So we don't have a lot of people to help us keep our moral compasses in line.
As to the question of should pirate attack pirate? Well in the old days it was not worth the risk hence why it did not happen. In Eve-Online you have to consider several things: 1> Is what he MIGHT have for modules and/or cargo worth loosing your ship over? 2> Is he better skilled both in game and tactically than you? 3> Does he have friends close by and just playing possem or is he solo? 4> Are there better fatter targets a short time away that can be worth more?
Honestly that is how I would look at it. I would then way the pro's vs the con's and make my decision at that point.
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Jenna Culthaire
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:16:00 -
[41]
There should be no honour among thieves. The question is always about whether its in your interest to.
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Plaetean
Remnants of Times olde
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:19:00 -
[42]
I don't think ethics have much to do with it.
The only difference is you don't get a sec hit for killing the outlaw.
I need a sig |
Jenna Culthaire
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:34:00 -
[43]
Clasical Pirates tended to get along, provided they weren't interested in the same prize. Pirates by necessity tended to be quite democratic, and had much more control over the ship than their counterparts. Whilst Pirate justice and authority was brutal, the return was pretty good in terms of share of the loot (one share per crew, one and half share for the staff and double shares for the captain).
Pragmatism is the pirates rule of thumb, the balance between crew and staff is one based on personal interest and return. Also crew are hard to come by and replace, captains much easier.... Keeping control of a legal ship was difficult, but when everyone on your crew is essentially a profiteering killer....
Pirates came and went, and it was all about the money. Pirates personal freedom was probably better than the career sailors, though the risks higher. Piracy paid very well compared to the navy. Certain types of people (Escaped Slaves and Blacks found pirate crews to be more tolerant than their previous life, and had little in the way of options.
Pirates however were fairly ruthless, and most of their havens and safe ports were largely lawless - *****and murder a way of life. Pirates fighting pirates on the high sea wasn't common, but robbery and murder on land another matter.
However the era of classical piracy lasted about a generation, and was largely made up from crews from Navys and privateer vessels.
Pirates usually went for fast small vessels, rather than slow heavily armed ships, with bording being preferable to cannon fire. Although that may simply be a case of practicality (small ships are easier to steal) and fast ships easier to catch fleeing vessels).
In Eve Piracy is largely about the kill, rather than the money - thats a secondary thing.
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LaCoHa
The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 16:47:00 -
[44]
Originally by: tiller If my grandmother took up piracy in a velator and popped over to my home system for tea and biscuits I'd...
Smack her about in local abit (real grandmothers pvp in 0.0 etc etc) Gank her at station with dread Pod her Loot wreck Sleep with corpse over night War dec her corp
I like your style. :)
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Plim
Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lodhi Pirates dropps good loot often. Answer enought i think
You said it first you bugger -----------------
Originally by: BoB forum PR Toxic sludge is good for you.
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Katrina Kirellii
Caldari Escorts of Eve
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:28:00 -
[46]
Given that the person with -10 sec status may not be a pirate but a pirate hunter...
I would say treat everyone the same unless you know them is a good rule of thumb.
I am all for pirates killing pirates. I am not a strong supporter of Privateers killing Privateers unless they are representing different fighting entities who are at war. Basically, I look at Privateers as extensions of official navies for which they are working. I do wish they would specify WHO they are working for more to be honest.
In 0.0 - I have absolutely NO COMMENT. That is rule by the strongest and ALLIANCE out there.
Join Today! |
Dionisius
Gallente Vagabundos THE H0RDE
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:05:00 -
[47]
Most people are not pirates, as pirates would prefer to shoot merchant ships as said, while most corps are in the trade of random shooting and area controlling.
In old day piracy you roam trough an area more or less wide and you prey on the defensless ships that appear or if given no other choice pirates would engage against warships.
The targets are the ship itself preferably, looted and sold after or used for piracy if apropriate.
Most pirates used fast ships, rarely slow ships.
And there was a code of honor for pirates amongst themselves yes, the trade itself was hard and deadly enough, ocasionaly pirates would shoot each other but only on serious our highly profitable matter, and even so the later would be considered un-honorable pirates.
In eve, seems that things have evolved and work either on "fashion" or displays of power with very few piracy involved, ransoming, looting, stealing the prey ship, very rarely does that work.
Maybe its evolution, maybe it isn't.
What we have here is total lack of respect for the law... |
Subotai Doom
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Posted - 2007.01.11 20:22:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Katrina Kirellii Given that the person with -10 sec status may not be a pirate but a pirate hunter...
I would say treat everyone the same unless you know them is a good rule of thumb.
I am all for pirates killing pirates. I am not a strong supporter of Privateers killing Privateers unless they are representing different fighting entities who are at war. Basically, I look at Privateers as extensions of official navies for which they are working. I do wish they would specify WHO they are working for more to be honest.
In 0.0 - I have absolutely NO COMMENT. That is rule by the strongest and ALLIANCE out there.
A Privateer is usually someone who received a Letter of Marque to work as an extension. They were legalized pirates and allowed long as they did not violate the Marque which was basically do not attack this nations ships and we will provide a safe port for you against our enemies.
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Romale
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2007.01.11 20:45:00 -
[49]
i have a hard enough time not shooting people in my own corp,not out of hatred but out of the desire for loot, you can forget other corps
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Katrina Kirellii
Caldari Escorts of Eve
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Posted - 2007.01.11 23:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Dionisius Most people are not pirates, as pirates would prefer to shoot merchant ships as said, while most corps are in the trade of random shooting and area controlling.
In old day piracy you roam trough an area more or less wide and you prey on the defensless ships that appear or if given no other choice pirates would engage against warships.
The targets are the ship itself preferably, looted and sold after or used for piracy if apropriate.
Most pirates used fast ships, rarely slow ships.
And there was a code of honor for pirates amongst themselves yes, the trade itself was hard and deadly enough, ocasionaly pirates would shoot each other but only on serious our highly profitable matter, and even so the later would be considered un-honorable pirates.
In eve, seems that things have evolved and work either on "fashion" or displays of power with very few piracy involved, ransoming, looting, stealing the prey ship, very rarely does that work.
Maybe its evolution, maybe it isn't.
Yes - you have the right of it. People are pirating more for the easy money and the "fashion" than anything else. Your sig which said what we have here is a total lack of respect for the law really hits it...
There are very few "pirates" in Eve.
There are lots of people who are rogue who pass through this stage of learning the trade on random folks. They justify everything they do with "I am a Pirate".
It is this *grey* area of justification I would like to stamp out. Join a Pirate Corp and like a mob - provide protection of an area. Gate Camp and ransom by all means. Anything goes in 0.0 of course. Don't put out a can in front of a newb and shoot him when he picks it up. Don't snipe people you don't know in pods just for a killmail.
I would say don't steal ore too.
I guess that is about it. There just needs to be a thing that says - *popup* hey what you are about to do is lame - are you sure?
Join Today! |
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Kazire
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:02:00 -
[51]
Pirates in eve are not killing for the isk. If they get isk from it, that is all good. Pirates in eve kill for the sake of killing. It is a hunter and prey relationship, and there is a rush about being the hunter coming down on your prey. That is what piracy is about in eve, and piracy might not even be the right term. So to the op, the hunters will hunt the hunters, becuase that is where the rush is. However, poeple tend to think we dont hunt each other, becuase pirates know how to stalk and remain hidden, so they are much much much harder to catch and hence not much combat happens between us. We do however like to chat in local with each other on occasion, but that only happens, after we have tried stalking the other's ship.
You want to learn to avoid us, become one of us, and you will learn. Otherwise, you are just simply "prey".
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Katrina Kirellii
Caldari Escorts of Eve
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kazire Pirates in eve are not killing for the isk. If they get isk from it, that is all good. Pirates in eve kill for the sake of killing. It is a hunter and prey relationship, and there is a rush about being the hunter coming down on your prey. That is what piracy is about in eve, and piracy might not even be the right term. So to the op, the hunters will hunt the hunters, becuase that is where the rush is. However, poeple tend to think we dont hunt each other, becuase pirates know how to stalk and remain hidden, so they are much much much harder to catch and hence not much combat happens between us. We do however like to chat in local with each other on occasion, but that only happens, after we have tried stalking the other's ship.
You want to learn to avoid us, become one of us, and you will learn. Otherwise, you are just simply "prey".
Yeah - this is the point I was making too. For some, it is just about the Hunter and Prey relationship. These are not pirates nor anti-pirates. A true *killer* is just bad news. I just did not get into the thrill aspect. That is kinda the darkest of dark sides.
Join Today! |
Emennt
Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.12 12:07:00 -
[53]
Look at it as eliminating the competition Q.S. |
Rufless
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Ethics and morality is null and void in EVE as a pirate.
You kill to make money, you do it together with some friends to be able to engage juicier targets.
That's about how far it goes, you don't betray your own. Everyone else if fair game.
But you do betray your own... That is the life of the pirate. You only work together so long as it benefits you. If it benefits you to betray your own, you do. At least in the real life days of piracy. That is what I think Eve piracy is lacking.
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Rufless
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Posted - 2007.01.12 16:33:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kazire Pirates in eve are not killing for the isk. If they get isk from it, that is all good. Pirates in eve kill for the sake of killing. It is a hunter and prey relationship, and there is a rush about being the hunter coming down on your prey. That is what piracy is about in eve, and piracy might not even be the right term. So to the op, the hunters will hunt the hunters, becuase that is where the rush is. However, poeple tend to think we dont hunt each other, becuase pirates know how to stalk and remain hidden, so they are much much much harder to catch and hence not much combat happens between us. We do however like to chat in local with each other on occasion, but that only happens, after we have tried stalking the other's ship.
You want to learn to avoid us, become one of us, and you will learn. Otherwise, you are just simply "prey".
Maybe piracy is not the right term to decribe Eve pirates. You may be right about that. ;)
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Riho
Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:16:00 -
[56]
both ppl are criminals.... and if u have the chance to take hes stuff... whats the problem :P
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:29:00 -
[57]
-5 pew pew at the gates -4.9 and above pew pew in a belt either way I refine ships into salvage Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar 54th Knights Templar
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Posted - 2007.01.12 18:30:00 -
[58]
Well, pirates tend to fight people who are ratting or mining (ie aren't fitted for, or capable of, pvp combat) so they tend to shy away from other pirates, as they can be certain they are fitted for combat. I tend to take pride in that I hunt people who are geared and seeking pvp rather than people who want nothing more than to kill trivial npcs, but to each their own I guess.
Ideally pirates would have some sort of brotherhood feeling with each other, and while many would, there are enough who wouldn't out there to make it a serious security risk to not attack on sight, handing over the advantage of initiative.
So yea, its in your best interest to attack other pirates that you're not familiar with.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 18:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Well, pirates tend to fight people who are ratting or mining (ie aren't fitted for, or capable of, pvp combat) so they tend to shy away from other pirates, as they can be certain they are fitted for combat. I tend to take pride in that I hunt people who are geared and seeking pvp rather than people who want nothing more than to kill trivial npcs, but to each their own I guess.
Stereotyping For The Lose. Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Horatio Nately
Caldari Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad
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Posted - 2007.01.12 19:30:00 -
[60]
ethics < piracy. --------------------------------------- My Posts Represent My Opinion, Not Those of my Corp or Alliance. |
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