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Corp thieves should be flagged by Corp Directors (reference system)

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Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.11 15:45:00 - [1] I think with all these thefts being done, a system of Director flagging of individuals should be done. Something to the effect of a tab for references. You could have good references and people who would like an eve-mail from anyone wanting to recruit you. Then indeed - your crimes will be punished. Further, the Alliance leaders should have their reference show up first and Directors second, and then commoners last since anything done with them was a one on one scam situation. Then at least you would have a history behind someone who tried to steal your isk instead of earning it. Punishment needs to fit the crime better and be more - well - personal. Join Today!
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:05:00 - [2] Originally by: Katrina Kirellii I think with all these thefts being done, a system of Director flagging of individuals should be done. Something to the effect of a tab for references. You could have good references and people who would like an eve-mail from anyone wanting to recruit you. Then indeed - your crimes will be punished. Further, the Alliance leaders should have their reference show up first and Directors second, and then commoners last since anything done with them was a one on one scam situation. Then at least you would have a history behind someone who tried to steal your isk instead of earning it. Punishment needs to fit the crime better and be more - well - personal. So you would want CCP to do the work for the recruitment officer for him/her so that he should be done in a few clicks. Or would you like system in which the CEO/Director has too much power, as you're system reminds me of the one used by e-bay for the rating of they're users. Just let it be formed a nice little club of ppl who can boost the references of one another. I dislike corp thieves, i can't stand them, but the system you are suggesting is just stupid, especially considering that in most of the latest cases was around some guy who did it before, and who could have been identified by a simple search on the forums or by contacting his former CEO's. I'm sorry but God gave you intelligence to use it, not to ask someone else do stuff for you. -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
Private Iron Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:08:00 - [3] No. Directors should take the time to do various checks to see if someone is a corp thief. -----
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2007.01.11 16:22:00 - [4] they are already flagged. they have a corp history. Go through the history and ask the previous corps.
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Setana Manoro So you would want CCP to do the work for the recruitment officer for him/her so that he should be done in a few clicks. Or would you like a system in which the CEO/Director has too much power, as you're system reminds me of the one used by e-bay for the rating of they're users. Just let a nice little club of ppl who can boost the references of one another be formed. Yes on both counts. Being Caldari does have a few benefits. I indeed side with the Alliance leaders and Corp Directors. Just as your employment history shows corps, I would like a reference list. Since corporations change hands, I would like to know from the person who was REALLY there and not have to necessarily bug someone who is there now. I suppose you would have to have the ability to remove reference "stickies" on people you no longer cared about. That would be nice too. Not everyone who is Corp Thief uses the forums or gets listed in these forums. See? For instance, I would like to tell anyone interested that Strangey has confided in me his desire to just randomly kill things without thinking of profit or motive. It just seems that such tendencies and of course my truthfulness should be taken into account anytime he is seeking recruitment. You wouldn't want someone in your Alliance who does not pay attention to who is BLUE would you? Join Today!
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Private Iron No. Directors should take the time to do various checks to see if someone is a corp thief. This is exactly what I am advocating. A list of people who would like to be contacted about said individual. Thanks for agreeing in a slightly off manner. Join Today!
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.11 18:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Mira deVorsha they are already flagged. they have a corp history. Go through the history and ask the previous corps. Yes, and this should also be maintained. Thanks for the support - in part. Join Today!
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.11 19:24:00 - [8] You are probably the biggest carebear i ever saw. Like i said, i don't like corp thieves but i am glad that CCP will never give in to such an ideea. You already have at you're disposal a great set of tools to track the corp thief, it's not CCP's fault that you don't know how to use them - like probably many others; you just want to be handed all on a silver platern. Although the ability to detect a scammer or corp thief would thrill me, it would soon get boring for me, as there would be simply no risk. EVE would turn for many in a carebearish game, the kind for children between the ages of 9 and 12 like. Take this as a prediction : 1 - you will get flamed 2 - at 4-5 pages the threads will be closed for lack of constructing comment 3 - because you lack maturity to understand that a closed subject is a closed subject you will make another thread 4 - while this goes on you will troll the threads of others 5 - 6 months from now someone will do thread necromancy and the forum warriors will again mock you PS: Try making a community website that shows profesionalism and make it popular, you will have more succes; i know this will never happen as you do want everything to be given to you on a silver platern. -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.12 00:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Setana Manoro You are probably the biggest carebear i ever saw. Like i said, i don't like corp thieves but i am glad that CCP will never give in to such an ideea. You already have at you're disposal a great set of tools to track the corp thief, it's not CCP's fault that you don't know how to use them - like probably many others; you just want to be handed all on a silver platern. Although the ability to detect a scammer or corp thief would thrill me, it would soon get boring for me, as there would be simply no risk. EVE would turn for many in a carebearish game, the kind for children between the ages of 9 and 12 like. Take this as a prediction : 1 - you will get flamed 2 - at 4-5 pages the threads will be closed for lack of constructing comment 3 - because you lack maturity to understand that a closed subject is a closed subject you will make another thread 4 - while this goes on you will troll the threads of others 5 - 6 months from now someone will do thread necromancy and the forum warriors will again mock you PS: Try making a community website that shows profesionalism and make it popular, you will have more succes; i know this will never happen as you do want everything to be given to you on a silver platern. Your comment was not very constructive in you did not mention any tools for finding corp thieves though you said there are great tools. Then you seen to argue the other point of you wish you yourself could figure out who was a corp thief. So... I understand your fear that Eve would become easier than it is now to play. However, I doubt you are against there being a tutorial or online manual. This is my opinion of what I think you think of the tutorial. Your list is off point and just pokes fun at the Eve Community's ability to discuss a topic. This may or may not happen in full or in part as you describe. Making a website has nothing to do with identifying corp thieves unless you want to create a reporting database for everyone to use. That would be similar to using the ingame tools I suggested. So... I don't really follow where you are not supporting my idea. I am now leaning more towards the idea that only corp directors who have been in charge of a corp for a year be allowed to report such thieves if it were limited to such. In addition, maybe instead of a name wishing to be contacted - a short statement like: "I recommend him as a PvP pilot" "I don't think he is a team player" "Really fun in chat" "Stole my corp blind" would be sufficient. Not everyone posts to forums, be it perpetrator or victim, so searching the Forums is not a very good idea. Just guessing about someone based upon length of play, skills, or employment history is probably bad. I would think that being in a good corp like VETO, MC, or BoB for a long time would be a positive in general. Hmmm - also - some forums are private - so that really does not work... Searching on Google would probably not yield any results. Looking for secure cans talking about someone would probably not be productive. Asking in the chats would only hit players who are currently logged into the system and then you have rumors. So overall - the best tool - might be your gut. However, since a large percentage of conversation takes place through body language - really - you don't see the whole thing. So given the current set of tools... I am thinking that only never trusting anyone would be foolproof. Now - thinking of this from a Corporate view, it is hard to grow and do good things if nobody is ever trusted. So you see the delimna now perhaps. Getting past the emotion still leaves me with the original question... What does the community think is a good way of detailing a characters past so that Punishment follows the Crime? It is easy to just call someone a name, harder to discuss. Thanks for participating in the discussion. Join Today!
Stakhanov Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:07:00 - [10] This kind of suggestion is doomed to fail - I think the vast majority of corp theft is done by alts , and people are quick to sell their character after they've done something big and grew infamous. Thus , it only serves to punish dedicated scammers for having style , pride or consistency.
Devian 666 KAIZEN BROTHERHOOD	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:16:00 - [11] Basically the system as proposed wouldn't work and would only be used as a malicious tool by a ceo annoyed with a corp member. I'd rather use my own judgement to make a decision on whether or not to accept someone, and if you make a mistake that's just the way it is. Cool an orange sig
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.12 02:47:00 - [12] The problem with this is that someone could, just to be a ****, flag you when you didn't steal anything. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.12 03:43:00 - [13] Okay - agreed. The idea is flawed by the alt problem. Thanks for constructive criticism. So other ideas about tracking the money flow through the game might be better - although I hate that idea... Thanks for the input. Join Today!
Monde Gallente Praetorian Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.12 04:05:00 - [14] I am very surprised at the amount of negativity in this thread. Why this idea may or may not be a good idea it is still an idea and should be treated us such. Carebear comments and posts attempting to flame are stupid IMHO. Just because someone has an idea that you do not like does not make it idiotic or them a carebear. Be constructive (positively or negatively) or don't bother posting. The idea is sound. Pretty much the same as a Credit Rating or Black Listing system. The only problems I see is as has already been mentioned: You could get listed by a Director who does not like you. Alt's also are a problem. Then again: What who you ahve to do to get off such a list? What kind of retribution would there be if you were listed incorrectly?
Zardenim	Posted - 2007.01.12 05:19:00 - [15] Dark Shikari had a good point there. It might be solvable by providing a screenshot of the corp wallets transaction list (even if it were just that one line) which shows the sum of money stolen, or of the log for a hangar or container out of which had something stolen. That way, it would be foolproof. I would however not recomend positive notes because people change. Ex-corps who gave him positive comments which were used by another corp to judge a recruits viability would suffer lots of controversy over their comments if said recruit went and stole from his new corp. Just my .02 ISK on the matter. You've got my respect if that means anything. I could see all this going horribly awry with the comments and flames you've had to put up with so far.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2007.01.12 07:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Zardenim Dark Shikari had a good point there. It might be solvable by providing a screenshot of the corp wallets transaction list (even if it were just that one line) which shows the sum of money stolen, or of the log for a hangar or container out of which had something stolen. See, the problem is the container/wallet wasn't hacked. The CEO/director/whoever gave the thief permission to take it. So you can't prove that it was stolen, and a spiteful CEO could just list a legitimate removal as "theft". And that's the reason we'll never see something like this. It's too easy to exploit and screw up someone's applications and reputation.
Sexual Chocolate Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.12 07:40:00 - [17] Originally by: Katrina Kirellii I think with all these thefts being done, a system of Director flagging of individuals should be done. Something to the effect of a tab for references. You could have good references and people who would like an eve-mail from anyone wanting to recruit you. Then indeed - your crimes will be punished. Further, the Alliance leaders should have their reference show up first and Directors second, and then commoners last since anything done with them was a one on one scam situation. Then at least you would have a history behind someone who tried to steal your isk instead of earning it. Punishment needs to fit the crime better and be more - well - personal. What exactly is to stop malicious use of this by unscrupulous ceo's?
spongebobbb	Posted - 2007.01.12 07:48:00 - [18] Personally id rather see the dumb directors who have been victems of corp thefts flagged. So people will know if a director is dumb and not to give him any of ure stuff to hold. if u get scammed u have noone to blame but ureself.
Zardenim	Posted - 2007.01.12 08:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Zardenim Dark Shikari had a good point there. It might be solvable by providing a screenshot of the corp wallets transaction list (even if it were just that one line) which shows the sum of money stolen, or of the log for a hangar or container out of which had something stolen. See, the problem is the container/wallet wasn't hacked. The CEO/director/whoever gave the thief permission to take it. So you can't prove that it was stolen, and a spiteful CEO could just list a legitimate removal as "theft". And that's the reason we'll never see something like this. It's too easy to exploit and screw up someone's applications and reputation. True, so like irl it would have to be bogged down by beaurocracy to run properly, but no one wants that in a game. (Like if there was a corp vote for every single wallet use...)
El'Niaga	Posted - 2007.01.12 11:29:00 - [20] Currently lets face it there is little to no tools available to find corp thieves. Yes you can try to contact former CEOs, however if the CEO currently in charge of a corp isn't the same as when the person was there they might not remember them. They might not remember them anyway. Most corp theft is also done with alts or purchased characters. The alts are often recycled afterwards or the character sold. That's the reason I feel that corp theft in itself needs to be outlawed. There is no risk involved if the person takes even the smallest amount of precautions. No Risk should mean no reward. Your idea would perhaps help only a little bit and only in those cases where an alt is not used. In the case of a sold character it might have a bad impact on someone other than the guilty party since it might not be the same person. Even if you allowed a bounty to be placed on their head it wouldn't matter to most of them that do them since they get rid of the character as quick as possible.
Setana Manoro Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2007.01.12 11:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Katrina Kirellii Your comment was not very constructive in you did not mention any tools for finding corp thieves though you said there are great tools. Then you seen to argue the other point of you wish you yourself could figure out who was a corp thief. Your list is off point and just pokes fun at the Eve Community's ability to discuss a topic. This may or may not happen in full or in part as you describe. Making a website has nothing to do with identifying corp thieves unless you want to create a reporting database for everyone to use. That would be similar to using the ingame tools I suggested. So... I don't really follow where you are not supporting my idea. So given the current set of tools... I am thinking that only never trusting anyone would be foolproof. Now - thinking of this from a Corporate view, it is hard to grow and do good things if nobody is ever trusted. So you see the delimna now perhaps. It is easy to just call someone a name, harder to discuss. Thanks for participating in the discussion. I mentioned the best tool to identify a corp thief, and that is not "guts", but intelligence and using that intelligence. You are asking for a easy to use, foolproof system that relies on the opinions of a small group of ppl, who have absolutely no obligations other they're own morality to not abuse the system. Such a system would give a lot of power in they're hands and i am willing to bet that within days of the implementation you would see forum posts about CEO's abusing it. Even more annoying is the fact that this system will not affect career corp thieves who will just make another alt and discard the account after 3 alts - alt recycling is bad m'kay, while the corp thieves that use the same character over and over again - like Adsterine for instance, will continue to charm they're way into you're wallet and POS because you are too stupid to use the search function on the forums. So in the end who does this system serve : 1 - you; it may make you feel better about yourself 2 - CEO's and directors who would abuse the system 3 - other MMORPG's as this would annoy some players who would go for other games This is why this system will not pass, this is why i think you are a big carebear who wants everything given to him on a silver plattern, this is why i used the kind of tone i used. PS: Just because you can write nice and construct ideeas to back up a point doesn't mean that the point is valid. :) -------------------------------------------------- Always look on the bright side of life. :)
R0ME0	Posted - 2007.01.12 14:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Katrina Kirellii I think with all these thefts being done, a system of Director flagging of individuals should be done. Something to the effect of a tab for references. You could have good references and people who would like an eve-mail from anyone wanting to recruit you. Then indeed - your crimes will be punished. Further, the Alliance leaders should have their reference show up first and Directors second, and then commoners last since anything done with them was a one on one scam situation. Then at least you would have a history behind someone who tried to steal your isk instead of earning it. Punishment needs to fit the crime better and be more - well - personal. This is quiet pathetic really. If corps didnt stop ****ing around recruiting left right and centre just so they can have the biggest corp, corp thieft wouldnt be as much as a problem. At any time you can hit the recuit channel, CRY OUT "RECRUIT ME" and 20 pivate convos popup, hay you dont have the SP required, then LIE.. wow your in the corp. And 99.9% of the time, no one in your new corp will do a background check, well more fool them, if so many of you want to compair RL to GAME (sad) then would you employ someone at your company with out refferences? i think not. Asking for hanger rights straight away is your best time really, and more often than not your given it... wow another invite to come steal. If corps actually excersided there gray matter they where born with, they wouldnt be on here crying like little babys. My Eve Blog
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.14 05:22:00 - [23] Originally by: R0ME0 This is quiet pathetic really. If corps didnt stop ****ing around recruiting left right and centre just so they can have the biggest corp, corp thieft wouldnt be as much as a problem. At any time you can hit the recuit channel, CRY OUT "RECRUIT ME" and 20 pivate convos popup, hay you dont have the SP required, then LIE.. wow your in the corp. And 99.9% of the time, no one in your new corp will do a background check, well more fool them, if so many of you want to compair RL to GAME (sad) then would you employ someone at your company with out refferences? i think not. Asking for hanger rights straight away is your best time really, and more often than not your given it... wow another invite to come steal. If corps actually excersided there gray matter they where born with, they wouldnt be on here crying like little babys. Good points ROMEO. Straight forward and logical. Yeah - preventing crime is real hard to do and many don't know how. Punishing is not much better. So maybe the Security for corps needs to be easier to manage. Maybe some people could use popups like entering low sec saying "HEY - if you give hangar rights to this person with under a year of playtime - you could be asking for corp theft!" I know the wording and example are loose, but you get the idea. Not everyone is of sound mind. There is not a good way of learning the Security and workings of corporate life. I think you hit it on the head ROMEO - lots of small corps are asking for it and BIG CORPS have their own problems when everyone is not in favor of following the vision or the one communicated. Join Today!
R0ME0	Posted - 2007.01.14 16:21:00 - [24] the fact that one of my alts, joined a corp in 0.0 space where most of there operations where done from a pos, the above is just how i got in. I was recrited no real questions, and within 2 days i was given enough roles to access there entire ship array at there pos.. I actually went back to empire and learnt as many ship skills i could so i could take as many ships as possibe. Dam, if i had a carrier skills they would of been screwed, i could of loaded half of there T2 fleet. They used 2 ship arrays, which is more dum, one should be for new members period and the other for higher ranking members.. you then store the ships accordingly. But still you dont give full acces on the first week. They even left around 50 ish secure cans in a pos bubble with no password on... , with mods and skill books over 50mill in value.. This case they truely deserved everthing they got. My Eve Blog

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