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sukio
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Posted - 2007.01.11 18:27:00 -
[1]
you still wondering why the core systems are massivly over crouded?? still wondering why 0,0 space is still so empty??
thats because you still cant grasp that you do a very good job of making 80% of space unpaletable for the non PVPer
you may win every award out there but because of this you will never be anything more than a small nitch game!
you guys get all excited about 30k people when its NOTHING in the gaming world when MILLIONS could enjoy playing if it was more user friendly.
ever thought about haulers and mining barge people that are effectivly baned from lowsec space???
ever consider some non-pvp indipendant faction?
I would haul or mine in 0,0 in a second if i didnt get my DEFENCELESS hauler BLOWN UP every time I go there and get pod killed just so someone else can feel superior.
if you STILL havent figured this out you guys are dence or narrowminded.
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Kella DelRae
Freedom United
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:01:00 -
[2]
It's been said before and again. There are great riches to be had if you can tough it out and adapt. Problem one is "defenceless hauler" If you're out draggin 30k m3 in an expanded m5, you'll die. You could be a bobbit and probably still die (though I doubt that mistake would be made)
If you want to haul, and you're not scouting/being escorted you need to protect that hauler. This means blockade runners or transport ship, fit a full rack of multispecs in the mids or extenders hardeners and mwd. Be aware of your surroundings, use the map. See the kills? It's a buble camp dont go there, just a couple kills, likely rovers mwd away, or jam and jump.
It ceases to be 0.0 if there is no pvp in it, there would be no differnece than empire except maybe bigger belt rats.... arkonor and crok in empire... : sigh :
Although it would be fnny to see ppl complain that they tried to jump from a gate but got webbed/scrammed by the NPCs and then blown to hell by a trple 1.5 spawn :-p Maybe it will be Estamel...
I originally didn't want to respond, but I felt compelled for some reason.
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sukio
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:20:00 -
[3]
its not PVP its griefer vs inocent bystander and its cripling this game.
its like a M1 abrams vs a baby stroller and it wouldnt suprise me at all that the people that enjoy this are sociopaths probably killing or maiming little animals and working their way up. same type of punks that do drivebys with paintball guns with no reguard to the pain and suffering they cause to others.
its simpler NOT to go into 0,0 and be someones target practice at least until I get bored and fustrated and take my money elsewhere like so many others have done.
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Xxara
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:38:00 -
[4]
LOL, I think you need to take a break from MMOs.
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:54:00 -
[5]
Sukio, I agree with you for the most part. Our corp are mostly not PvPers and we have been able to live in 0.0, but it has been very difficult and only feasible after 1 year or more of skill training and ISK accumulation. Not everyone cares to spend that much time struggling in the overcrowded, overnerfed empire systems, waiting until they can fly the elite ships needed to prosper in 0.0.
A note of pessimism too about recent political events in EVE ... the defeat of ASCN by BoB, and the capture of ISS outposts by D2 and IAC. With losses by these two indutrially-oriented alliances, militarism is in vogue. Many EVE players, especially PvP veterans, have long said that "carebears" have no place in 0.0 except perhaps as their vassals. Recent victories would seem to support that view. Since serfdom to another player is not exactly fun for many of us, expect even more players to stay in empire. The roids and rats are crap, but at least you can play with autonomy and self-respect.
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Jounin Tradoc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.11 19:55:00 -
[6]
Well...she has a point.
Alliances and such may have fun in 0.0; but very few others really do...that is why they stay in high sec space (lets not even mention low-sec here, that dog has been beaten to death).
Call them carebears or whatever you think would hurt their pride, and feel free to think yourselves so much better for it; but the fact remains that griefers and pirates seriously fustrate people who are just trying to play the game.
It's not your place to question why they do what they do, and rather pompous of many to simply say 'Go play another game'. Eve is fun for many reasons, and it obviously isn't because of low sec.
There either has to be serious incentive for people to get into pvp (such as NOT losing everything in a fight), or, should people be 'forced' into low-sec; expect to hear complaints of cleaver workarounds and logging like you wouldn't believe.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:25:00 -
[7]
0.0 is all about natural selection. The fittest survive, and as it stands the fittest are the ones with capital ships, five active accounts and the opportunity and willingness to spend fourteen hours a day camping a gate, even on holidays.
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Nnam Pir
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.12 00:58:00 -
[8]
If you want to mine in 0.0 space, you'll need protection. Join a corp in 0.0 that operates within a couple systems, or join one of the alliances. The big alliances in 0.0 are successful not just because they PvP, but because they do things in groups. Being solo and expecting to be left alone in 0.0 is naive.
In the world of EVE the potential for vast riches and the danger of death come hand in hand. It is as it was intended from the beginning. It should never change. This game isn't meant for those who wanna sit and farm the best stuff in the game to their heart's content without fear of attack. It was never meant to be. |
shhmee eeeeee
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Posted - 2007.01.12 01:48:00 -
[9]
Very well said Nnam pir! was going to add to that but you said it so well!
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Jounin Tradoc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.12 02:03:00 -
[10]
You can't be serious if you think the miners in alliance space are under constant threat and fear of attack.
Pirating is a unique aspect of Eve, but if you think that it single-handedly makes this game what it is...well, the numbers obviously speak differently.
If that's the way you want low sec/0.0 to operate (essentially, exactly as the Stoneloader has spoken), then don't complain of low population and people that would sooner not play (i.e. logoff) than bother to fight you.
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Norrinas
Gallente
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.12 11:55:00 -
[11]
This IS a nitch game.
It has PVP areas 0.0-0.4 unless you get wardec'd. This is one of the common uses of pvp in many mmorpgs. Don't want to pvp stay out of these areas just like ANY other mmo out there with pvp areas. /duel mmmmmmm riiiight.
Unlike 95%? of the market of mmo's eve has 2 servers chinese & tranquility.
You want 0.0 access learn to travel or join a group, because this game boils down to Risk vs. Reward. It seems you want to be rid of all the risk involved with the reward 0.0 is risky due to the player factions that placed themselves there, and they protect it because of the reward.
As for your haulers and pods, travel with friends, have fun with it, get in a good corp/alliance. Have more fun with it, fly a frig on PVP ops fit a warp scram OMG PVP have fun with it.
The big picture is you will mostly fail trying to compete and trying to win eve solo. Get mad, bored or quit. Don't want to see you quit just get with a group of people in an alliance/corp, that does what you want or helps you get there.
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Jounin Tradoc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:20:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jounin Tradoc on 12/01/2007 17:18:42
Edit: Html
Stop with this 'Risk vs Reward' BS. The logic behind that concept has been twisted beyond all sense. and has been used to support notions that are absolutely moronic.
Players have to choose between realism and game mechanic balance...because they can't have both.
Not every reward or harmless action in Eve need boil down to 'open opportunity for pirate ganking' (the consensus definition of 'risk' - Sorry, but a person cloaked in a far off corner in space shouldn't be easily found by senseless gimmicks fitted for kill-hungry pirates and/or griefers).
T2 is a serious problem that affects game balance(this is one of the worst issues with the "player run" economy); Broken drone AI kills the Gallente niche; the assinine Minmitar setup gives them little to nothing unique; and the Amarr...hell, the entire Amarr concept falls to shreds they currently suck so hardcore. The Caldari? They need a niche to stick with instead of random, senseless boosts (The Rokh) to keep them at the top of the food chain.
Finding a profitable trade route in high sec that earns more money than gatecamp ganking doesnt mean that the trade route needs to be nerfed. It means that sitting in lowsec for hours on end accomplishing nothing is a very poor means of mitigating the risk of being in lowsec. Visiting 0.0 shouldn't earn you big pay for putting in little effort, simply because you're at "risk".
It shouldn't be "Risk vs Reward"; it should be "Effort vs Reward", and risk should be a multiplying factor for reward.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:22:00 -
[13]
 Originally by: sukio
its not PVP its griefer vs inocent bystander and its cripling this game.
its like a M1 abrams vs a baby stroller and it wouldnt suprise me at all that the people that enjoy this are sociopaths probably killing or maiming little animals and working their way up. same type of punks that do drivebys with paintball guns with no reguard to the pain and suffering they cause to others.
its simpler NOT to go into 0,0 and be someones target practice at least until I get bored and fustrated and take my money elsewhere like so many others have done.
Don't call me a griefer just becase you fly a space pinata and I choose to be the one to swing the stick
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Haas Tabris
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Posted - 2007.01.12 17:54:00 -
[14]
To the OP:
You can solo 0.0 but it's not easy. Best bet is round up a few empire corpmates and start making limitted runs. One person goes through the camping gate in a shuttle. If they get podded, you come back later and try again. If it's clear, go go go.
If it is just you. Dock, shuttle, check gate, then decide.
Hauler in 0.0? Nano's and warp core stabs. Period. Make two trips, or buy a transport ship. Personally I use a Sigil for running 3,000 m3 in and out of 0.0.
You don't have to haul much out there. Learn to rig your combat ship for travel (again wc stabs and nano's or inertial stabs), put your damage mods and tanking gear in the hold. ECM in the mids. You're not going to fight, you're going to run like hell or die trying. Once you're through the camping system and a few jumps into nowhereland, dock, refit, go rat or mine or whatever.
What you will not be doing is hauling a 20,000 m3 hauler full of all sorts of random **** to a station in 0.0. That's just stupid. You can do that when you make a move in empire. 0.0 is different.
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Ithildin
Gallente
The Corporation
Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.01.12 18:05:00 -
[15]
Bah! The one and only problem with 0.0 is that 90% of the solar systems are ****e.
Non-NPC sovereign systems should ALL be bumped up to between -0.7 and -1.0. Currently it's between -0.0 to -1.0.
In systems below -0.7 there simply isn't enough good ore to be had, making the valuable systems very very crowded.
That, and removed forcefields so people will have to use the CORPORATE HANGARS for what they are intended.
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EVE is sick. |
sukio
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Posted - 2007.01.12 20:16:00 -
[16]
Don't want to pvp stay out of these areas just like ANY other mmo out there with pvp areas.
you guys keep talking about PVP which is player vs player
im talking about PVV player vs victim or what i call griefers
a griefer is someone that walks into a school and starts shooting at everyone
a griefer walks into a game company and shoots its unarmed developers
AH but even this isnt quite right BECAUSE police will come and arrest them not so in 0,0
PVP is BAD when the looser feels like they have been raped
in most games ive played I refuse PVP mainly because my playstyle is not a PVP template so I have no chance to win
I tend to do just about everything except PVP so my skill base is very wide and not all that high and for the most part I like it that way.
what I DO NOT like is being baned from a mijority of the game by predators whos goal in life is to causeother players to sufer and drive players out of the game.
if every time you went to go to the park and got raped and beaten how long would it be before you didnt go to the park any more? and how long till you complain to the city to do something about it?
PVPers and gankers are usually 2 different animals
I play eve to have fun.. not to spoil others fun
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Hitomi Suzuka
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.01.12 20:26:00 -
[17]
Originally by: sukio
a griefer is someone that walks into a school and starts shooting at everyone a griefer walks into a game company and shoots its unarmed developers
tasteless, all i have to say to that
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I'm For Sale! |
Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.12 20:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: sukio
...what I DO NOT like is being baned from a mijority of the game by predators whos goal in life is to causeother players to sufer and drive players out of the game...
There are a few bad apples in EVE who fit this "griefer" profile, who get a charge out of ruining another player's game. However, IMO true griefers are a small minority of the people who will shoot at you in 0.0. Here are some guesses as to what DOES motivate pilots in 0.0 to behave as predators:
1) Killboards -- the de factor scoreboard for EVE is the killboard, where pilots generally score points according to the number and value of ships they blow up. Killboard wh*res don't really care if they make you suffer, they just want to score a kill.
2) Boredom -- in many parts of 0.0, local alliances in some regions are bound by diplomatic agreements not to attack each other (a.k.a. "overNAP'ed"). Thus the only nearby opportunities for PvP are the occasional hostile or neutral intruder.
3) Territorialism -- an alliance's prestige rises when it controls more space. In 0.0 culture, "control" of space usually means destroying anyone who goes there without your permission. There is also financial incentive to enforce this policy, as players allowed to use controlled space can be charged rent/tax by the alliance.
4) Piracy -- true pirates just want to profit by collecting loot from the wreckage of your ship, or ransom for letting you keep it, it's nothing personal. This is the classic 'risk vs. reward' scenario.
All of these discourage players, especially newer players, from venturing into 0.0. While piracy is an integral part of the game design, killboards, overNAP'ed regions and NBSI territorialism are player inventions. Maybe it's time to uninvent some of these traditions, or at least tone it down.
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
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Posted - 2007.01.12 21:03:00 -
[19]
0.0 is all about teamwork and the rewards good co-operation can give.
You can enjoy the benefits of 0.0 under the protection of a strong pvp corp or an alliance, usually for a nominal fee, or active participation in corporation ops. 0.0 can be much more profitable, and safer, than empire low sec, but players must work to achieve that profit and safety.
The beauty of eve is, that anyone can contribute to pvp efforts. A single damp, ECM, TD, whatever in a frigate or cruiser can be the thing that changes the balance of a fight to your advantage. Very few players actually can compete in the dps game, but there are other things that you can use for your advantage.
But, anyways. Teamwork. That is key.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
arutha
Infinite Improbability Inc
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.12 21:57:00 -
[20]
you seem a very angry lady =/
i have alittle sympathey in that if you love sci-fi and love to be in space flying a ship there are not alot off options atm in the mmorpg world . i too got abit tired of the sword and sorcery stuff and have been here now for awile .
you do understand i hope that in 0.0 many alliances created stuff such as outposts etc at a great deal expense and effort and have every right too defend them ?
with the dangers off 0.0 you do get a very pack animal mind in the groups out there . there is very little trust between strangers .the alliances are constantly manovouring for position too stay strong and for every 100 innecent neautrals you might have 10 off them are spys and can hurt your efforts hard if un checked . i know its a ***** but the best way atm too prevent infiltration by hostiles wether open or covert is too bubble up choke points going into 0.0 . thats not the alliances fault . ccp made the game maps not players .
eve is and allways be a combat allowed game .with the death off enb that pretty much ended the space adventures for pve exclusive players . reading the posts you need to get a break from eve . you are boiling over with frustration that you cant get into the deep areas off space in what im guessing is a very nice close nit friendly corp you have . i know the standard answere is no to alliance applications for small corps .
i know it must seem sucky for u and others . and at the moment 0.0 is very very hostile . im not sure what to say im not going to give the standard go play wow answere .
im sorry that you feel 0.0 alliances are all grieffers and villans . the truth is theres an awefull lot off nice people out there . but they like everyone will defend there home . every person in my alliance as an example had to fight for the right to be there and still do .u think they should just hand over everything they built to just anyone who saunters by ?.
it dosent solve your problem of aspiring too get abit off 0.0 for yourself . a corp merger into 1 already in an alliance might be the answere . but honestly you cant expect the people who fought for there home just accept a corp wandering into there back garden and picking there vegetables .
arutha
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Jounin Tradoc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.12 22:48:00 -
[21]
The problem there is that there is very little of 0.0 that is unclaimed; and what little there is...well, it is near impossible to get to because of passing through sovereign space or having to take the long route through low sec (either of which are bad...very bad).
To the OP, I say screw it. Sure, there is some opportunity in 0.0; however, it seems that you haven't quite understood the reason for the hideously low population in those areas.
It isn't worth it.
In terms of Effort vs Reward, alot of effort goes into little reward. Why so little reward? Because there is an extremely high risk of losing everything to mere chance and circumstance.
There is more fun to be had, and good money to be made in high sec; and it isn't hard to figure out. Granted, the high-end minerals are a bit hard to get; but the profit from selling low-end minerals, plus the high-end availability from exploration spots in empire makes it completely pointless to risk anything in low sec/0.0 if you aren't a fan of being on the butt-end of every pirate and griefer's gatecamping joke.
If that is the way that they want to play, then let them play it by themselves.
I find it hillarious every time I hear a complaint about low populations in low sec/0.0, and the equally assinine ideas of how to lure people through.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.12 23:13:00 -
[22]
The problems have all been stated. Here's my advice:
Redistribute resources so that 0.1 is a profitable as -0.5, and have 0.0 range in quality from about -0.8 to -1.0. A 0.0 system with cruiser rats and nothing better than Hemorphite in the belts is all the risk and none of the reward, and that's lame.
There are very clear tiers of risk with low-sec and 0.0, but the reward increase is less dramatic. 0.5 to 0.4 is almost no different, except for a few hundred units of Jaspet and the odd cruiser rat. Similarly, 0.0 is almost indistinguishable from 0.1 in terms of opportunity.
Going from 0.5 to 0.4 should be a revelation of wealth, with asteroid belts full of hemorphite and hedbergite and spodumain. The jump to 0.0 should bring with it limitless opportunities for earning.
Ramp up the amount you can make just living out there. Sure, you can build or buy a battleship every week, but you'll lose them just as fast.
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Matarinnea
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Posted - 2007.01.13 00:44:00 -
[23]
Arutha says it all. Translated this toon means that this is a game by elites for elites and if you want to become an elite than shelve your goals and join one of our elite organizations where we can let you be a drone for our elitest benefit. (Did I use the word "elite too much, like some persons use overworn concepts born of the frustration of not being able to create a goal?"
Sucky. Such an elegant word for the elites of EVE
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Cythe Oman
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Posted - 2007.01.13 01:05:00 -
[24]
A word to every person "living" in .4 and lower. "You diddent build sh!t." The asteroids the stations, nothing save a few POS stations. Some people are forced into low security systems for something as simple as a levle two mission this risk vs reward BS is broken. The gank squads just keep getting larger forcing players to remain in "nerf space" untill they can afford massively powerfull ships to even concider taking them into a lower security area.
Yes other MMO's have pvp areas. but they dont close off all decent money making opertunitys to them. Hell halve the "macro miners" are probly bored empire players that are just tring to make an unmolested living. As it stands now the universe is just plain stupid. if the materials for manufactureing are only found in certin systems wouldent it make sence that one empire or another would secure a few of them? Suposedly system scanning and probs were going to change this but they havent in the slightest.
This is no new lesson here, every mmo that allows unrestricted PVP (as it's main focus) fails. And the trend of "move to 0.0 or starve" is wareing thin fast.
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Spei Prodetor
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Posted - 2007.01.13 02:46:00 -
[25]
I think this really boils down to 1 thing Risk Vs Reward most ores in 0.0 ( the good ones anyway ) yeild an isk per hour rating of about 30-40m. High risk high reward... but at the same time... Most of the space is unpopulated etc... Not to mention that the major alliances with real pvp backbone have great control over their vast space vs empire players is due to the few choke points. I think the most logical way to solve the 0.0 issue would be to double the number of gates leading into 0.0. This would basicly force People to condence down a tad to better control their space while at the same time allowing for more players to enter 0.0 I personally don't think it should be easily feesable for an alliance of 2000 ppl to control 200+ systems. Even with enough for 10 people per system a fleet of 50 guys could easily lock one down so this would force more centralization for alliances in 0.0 to prevent them from claiming such vast regions of space and giving more people the oportunity to enter it and use it.
I'm sorry for the ramble and I'm sure the whole block is run together somehow but i've not slept in days...
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Nathanial Victor
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Posted - 2007.01.13 02:53:00 -
[26]
cant stand the heat, stay outta the kitchen
no need to go all 'emo' about it. go play another game if you dont like it! you wont be missed.
CCP doesn't force you to play this game, plenty of us like it the way it is.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.13 03:05:00 -
[27]
The real problem, in my opinion, is the fact that it's so easy to get rich without any risk at all. I have a second character that I originally started as a hauler but has deviated from my main and now they have almost no contact with one another except to send money back and forth depending on who's poorer.
My 0.0 experience has been very straightforward and even pleasant. It's a fairly small community of mostly friendly folks. Even in fights, you know a lot of guys on both sides and can enjoy the game and the company. Everyone out there earns their money either ratting or running mining alts (Except me, the doofus with the mining main) and they all have the same complaints about not being able to pay the bills.
Empire's a miserable place. Every third low-sec system is packed with pirates who don't deserve that title. Month-old newbs are flying Ravens and Rokhs that they have no business being in, and it seems that everyone and their brother is getting isk injections. Whether it's from EULA violations or rich alts in other places, the fact is that nobody in empire seems to be pulling their own weight.
I do, by mining and building most of my gear myself, and sticking to T1 unnamed hardware. It's not hard to survive on a small budget and have a good time, particularly in PvP. Nobody does, though. There's something fundamentally broken when such a large cross-section of the populace is neither willing to go where money comes easily nor willing to earn it the hard way in the safe zones. The artifical subsidies are rampant. It hurts the economy (except the economy for high-end named loot. Honestly, why would a three-week character have six Arbalest cruise launchers on his Raven?), it hurts the game, and it further exacerbates the inability of honest, hard-working players to compete in this galaxy.
It's crap, and something needs to be done about it. High-sec is for newbies and macrominers. 0.0 is for gank fleets and alliances. Low-sec empire is the hope of EvE. Boost it, make it so that you can make ten times more there with a mining barge than you can with a combat ship, and make it so you can get pirated three times a week and still turn a profit. Make carebearing the easy way to play EvE, not the hard way, and you'll see a thriving economy, a happy player base and a target-rich environment for pirates.
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Mathsage
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Posted - 2007.01.13 03:34:00 -
[28]
If you're throwing the future of Eve into low sec...you're gambling big with the dice here. However, I will agree with you on at least one thing.
If the formula of [Effort = Reward x Risk] is to hold true, then low sec is where the most profitable ventures need to be.
However, before any real migration begins, several significant things need to change (and fortunately, some of these changes are already in effect or are just beyond the horizon).
- The increase in difficulty for mission/complex ganking was a good start. Now, the missions and complexes need to be geared more toward fighting a select few powerful opponents as a pose to a mass of one-pop-shot easykill rats. This will leave mission and complex runners better equipped to face an actual pirate threat that might intervene.
- Increased support for exploration in low-sec. Players inside of exploration zones shouldn't show on scanners unless the scanner can also pick up the exploration site the player is in.
- Increased support for non-corporate gangs. This is being done with gang missions, however small-scale support in other areas would be welcome also.
- More, and larger high-end and high-yield ores between .4 and .1. As it stands, these systems aren't mined anywhere near as much or as often as the ores in 0.0. This is where the new opportunities need to be presented, instead of 0.0 space where only the alliances and the already well-off will be the only ones to capitalize (though then again, this seems to be the one thing the Devs are reluctant to change).
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.13 03:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mathsage
missions and complexes need to be geared more toward fighting a select few powerful opponents as a pose to a mass of one-pop-shot easykill rats.
Yes. This change has been a long time coming. It increases the stakes in missions, allows EW to serve a role in PvE (which makes wingmen useful for more than just added damage and encourages gang mission running) and makes it possible for a mission runner's setup to stand a chance against a PvP setup. It also leads to fewer rats spawning, which reduces server load. Everyone wins.
Originally by: Mathsage
0.0 space where only the alliances and the already well-off will be the only ones to capitalize (though then again, this seems to be the one thing the Devs are reluctant to change).
Right on the money. The elite of EvE are coddled by CCP, given new content and opportunities that magnify or multiply their earning power while the plebs toil away at the same fruitless enterprises that were available when the first Omen built was a great achievement.
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sukio
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Posted - 2007.01.13 06:09:00 -
[30]
they have a whole team to warn me not to troll on the forums but they wont address the "trolling" ive been complaining about in 0,0 which is far worse
good priorities.
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sukio
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Posted - 2007.01.13 06:14:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dutarro
Originally by: sukio
...what I DO NOT like is being baned from a mijority of the game by predators whos goal in life is to causeother players to sufer and drive players out of the game...
There are a few bad apples in EVE who fit this "griefer" profile, who get a charge out of ruining another player's game. However, IMO true griefers are a small minority of the people who will shoot at you in 0.0. Here are some guesses as to what DOES motivate pilots in 0.0 to behave as predators:
1) Killboards -- the de factor scoreboard for EVE is the killboard, where pilots generally score points according to the number and value of ships they blow up. Killboard wh*res don't really care if they make you suffer, they just want to score a kill.
2) Boredom -- in many parts of 0.0, local alliances in some regions are bound by diplomatic agreements not to attack each other (a.k.a. "overNAP'ed"). Thus the only nearby opportunities for PvP are the occasional hostile or neutral intruder.
3) Territorialism -- an alliance's prestige rises when it controls more space. In 0.0 culture, "control" of space usually means destroying anyone who goes there without your permission. There is also financial incentive to enforce this policy, as players allowed to use controlled space can be charged rent/tax by the alliance.
4) Piracy -- true pirates just want to profit by collecting loot from the wreckage of your ship, or ransom for letting you keep it, it's nothing personal. This is the classic 'risk vs. reward' scenario.
All of these discourage players, especially newer players, from venturing into 0.0. While piracy is an integral part of the game design, killboards, overNAP'ed regions and NBSI territorialism are player inventions. Maybe it's time to uninvent some of these traditions, or at least tone it down.
excelent and informative post i didnt even know about the killboards. ya there has to be a change maby a neutral class haulers could be suplying their guild for instance.
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sukio
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Posted - 2007.01.13 06:24:00 -
[32]
Originally by: arutha
you seem a very angry lady =/
thank you for not giving me the "dont like it leave" line as its just inflamatory
all i really want to do is
1. explore the universe
2. do some mining and refining better than omber
3. haul comodities and maby player goods
and doing so without an armada or getting blown up 10x a day I cant afford ships costing millions of isk every day
or paying millions a day in protection money
ive even been traped in 0,0 because no body else was online so I had to log out
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CrestoftheStars
Deviance Inc
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.13 06:25:00 -
[33]
well considering that 60-80% of the universe is low or 0.0 sec and that all 0.0 sec is almost never visited by anything but big alliance (that hang around a few systems with stations) or a bunch of gate champers that hang around the gate from low to 0.0.
i would say you guys ccp, are doing such a good job making pvping and all that have with 0.0 sec to do totally out of the questions of 90% of the eve population.
i mean, as a pvper you get nothing out of 0.0. yer you can blob war other blobs, and maybe you win and so what?! there is no where to go with the loot, you get no reward or bounty or insurance value of isk for the ships you destroyed, so you gained Nothing at all, beside the risk of losing X-million isk (depending on your ship).
for farmers and miners... yer i don't really need to say that, no stations for the public means no where to put the mined minerals and therefore no miners out there.
And with the 1% chance of getting in and out to 0.0 in a barger and mining for lets just say 2 hours, no one takes that chanceą
So the 0.0 have been the place for those few big alliance out there, which only occupies a few systems, because systems without a station arenĘt worth much to have.
So I would say you fail really big with your blob war place.
And the 0.0 outlaw place (well with the rules as it is and the GmĘs and staff not giving a **** about what people do in high sec, as suicide killing bargers and haulers, bargers for fun haulers for the exspensive mat they may be carryingą yer people are even blockading the exist of stations so they have time to scan the cargo and see if it is worth suicide killingą smacktalking like in no other game, harassing people and corporations especially in warą it seems like when you are in war in eve itĘs okey to do whatever it takes to annoy the other part, stealing, cheating, fraud, smacktalk, forum and ts/vent infiltrating. Etcą what are your GMĘs doing? I mean seriously in Any other mmo things like this is what the freaking GmĘs are their to prevent, and they have the authority to bring a consequences to those that does this, hereby discouraging this kind of behaviour.
But it seems like all you do is encourage this kind of extremely bad behaviourą
Your forums are one big whine, people constantly complaining about others taking advantage of loopholes and still you do nothing to discourage such behaviour.
If people arenĘt whining about how other people are misusing the mechanics for own benefits (and single enjoyment on the cost of others) then they are whining about them not being powerful enoughą
I mean how many post do you see whit people trying to balance it, nerf themselves for the good of the whole universe? Not many I most sayą
You made a race that was so overpowered that though every major patch you have nerfed it, and itæs still overpower all other races in a 1v1 with same ship class same tier class t1/t2 fitted.
The primary reasoną it always hits and no other can do anything like thisą should be easy to fix, just let all weapons hit, but make the dmg penalty depending on that tracking and signatureą
Well this was actually just an example because, yes I am thinking about every one and not just me. I am playing caldari and I know for a fact that the missiles that always hits, is just an unfair advantage, which means they will win any fight 1v1 same ship class, tier, t1/t2 and sp.
And no it doesnĘt work to nerf the missiles, this will just come to a point where they are so weak that they are almost useless and too easy to get aroundą (besides why not let all races have this feature? Nothing bad about it as I seeą)
Wow I got totally of track here heheą
The whole issue should be the 0.0 and the eve world unfriendly for people that likes to gain a little by pvping and for the majority to be able or at least willing to get to 0.0 (stations in all 0.0 systems for the public to use, let sentry guns protect the stations so that you can undock without being gangedą only let a few stations, the same as now, be player owned in 0.0 and maybe let 3-5 systems around those be without stations at emą)
Yer a bit of topic at some point, just let myself get ripped along, you know how it is when there is something that you see such a potential in, but your kind of sad by how it is ruined by small failures in the designą
___________________________________________
come on..
stop thinking about YOU.
and start thinking about All of us... how do we get a more fun and enjoyable game for all of us. |
Norrinas
Gallente
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.13 12:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jounin Tradoc
Stop with this 'Risk vs Reward' BS. The logic behind that concept has been twisted beyond all sense. and has been used to support notions that are absolutely moronic.
The game mechanics created the game, I'll agree that there are some out there that gank for the fact of ganking, being tarts.
But the way it is, am I going to RISK having a npc/hostile alt come into a system where my corp/alliance pos, station, mining operation is going on? NO not today tomorrow next week... my corp/alliance has worked to attain what they have. They will reap the REWARD of what they worked for playing the game and access to the areas where they mine, npc, mission run. And IF YOU DONT defend it someone WILL come take it from you.
Again, 0.4>0.0 is full on balls to the wall PVP always has been, and unless CCP changes it always will be, so the mentality of some to kill others for fun. Roleplaying pirates whatever. OR the mentality of protecting what others have built and are profiting from. Either way you look at it is risk vs reward in its pure definition.
CCP has alot of good ideas in development I only hope they can make it into game. Just like corp theft, you give someone rights to a hanger, you take a risk based on the judgement of character. The reward is having a good pilot that uses the modules/ships/ammo/bp's to benefit himself and the corp in general.
The only other alternative I see is fluffility, non pvp server. And to many games have this already.
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Jounin Tradoc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.13 13:37:00 -
[35]
For all of the effort that goes into coordinating the defense of allied space, the reward is a relatively safe haven for friendly logistics to operate, forever mitigated by the risk associated with the people who coordinate to an equal or greater degree to take it from you.
Thanks for proving the point.
Alternatively, solo miners go through great effort to tap into the relatively richer resources of low sec/0.0 (reward). Mitigated by the extremely high risk of walking away with NOTHING if not LESS than what they started with for the effort they have put into obtaining their reward; the risk makes it not worthwhile. Thus, people avoid low sec/0.0.
The point is, in order for Eve to actually exist for most players outside of high-sec empire space, I see the game's future hanging upon successful dispersion of the population via increase in gaming experience and enjoyment.
The only way people will bother with lowsec is if the factors of effort, risk, and reward are modified to let people accomplish something despite the existing threat.
Increasing the reward (make low sec not suck), and mitigating the risk (i.e. group missions, non-corp gang support, tweaked exploration) are the only practical solutions. Simply telling people to put more effort into it will have them taking the easy, and turning profits in high sec - Where Effort = Reward, with little risk to detract from it.
There are plenty willing to accept reasonable risk in order to turn a better profit...but so long as the reward isn't worth the effort; the balance of Eve will eventually collapse upon itself, and it will ultimately fail...just as others have before it.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.14 19:34:00 -
[36]
Ok, I will shamelessy link a thread I have started and see almost no one is considering:
an alternate route for low sec developement
To sum it up: I feel that 0.0 is right as it is; the space for alleances and their fights, building new empires.
The weak point is low sec. That should be the territory of the corporations, the adventurous players and the pirates, but currently his structure make the 3th group the dominant almost without opposition.
I try to suggest some alternate idea. Would like some comment.
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Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.01.14 21:16:00 -
[37]
Jesus, cry more?
0.0 is empty because its a harsh place, but its harsh because its got some sweet goodies.
If you want the belts, you got to take it from the people who have it right now, get a fleet and do it.
/end
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jbob2000
Gallente
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.14 22:05:00 -
[38]
0.0 is definitely not empty. I don't know what anyone in this thread is talking about. The issue in 0.0 is that 90% of the systems are absolutely useless. Useless meaning the ore is crap, the rats are crap/not enough belts, the moons are crap, and there isn't a complex. I've been in some major alliances and 0.0 is quite crowded.
0.0 isn't really a harsh place. You can survive just fine if you have your wits about you and have a basic knowledge of the game. 0.0 is only harsh when people don't want to defend themselves, when they just want to run.
New Eve UI |
Jargo Stonecutter
Gallente
Confederation of Red Moon
Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.15 10:02:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jargo Stonecutter on 15/01/2007 10:10:44
Cant really say that 0.0 is empty.
Ok, theres quite a few system with horribly bad belts/roids/rats that pretty much never attract ppl because its just not worth it but there are also quite a few outpost that (from my pov) are overcrowded. Way too many ppl for the few good systems around that are actually worth the trouble.
If CCP really wanted to populate 0.0 more they just need to do 4 things:
1. Increase the number of gates towards 0.0 by 10x (at least) so that its impossible to camp them all, for better access
2. Increase the number of regions to make it possible for new players to find their own niche without being molested by big alliances
3. Setup 1-2 systems within a region as 0.5 so that there cant be PvP without wardec, this will attract new ppl for sure
4. and most importantly: destroy most of the gates that interconnect 0.0 regions, just keep 2-3 regions interconnected but without access to the next region-cluster like it was befor Exodus(?).
I know it wont happen as CCP wants alliance-warfare to be a big part of EVE which makes the interconnection of regions a necessary thing.
May you live in interresting times. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.15 10:27:00 -
[40]
The reply "0.0 is no empty, we have some crowed systems" is like "empire is no crowed, there are systems with 1 person i local".
Both true, but averaging the popolation in 0.0 we have a low number for system, averaging them in empire we have a high number (only CCP know the effective data).
The "worthless" 0.0 system are not worth using from a Alliance point of wiew, but poorer corporations could find them interesting, but for the usual reasons linked to soveregnity and security the access there is blocked.
The new 0.0 systems are useful only for alliances as there aren't NPC stations to provide support and a corporation can't build an outpost.
I feel that currently we need an increase in the number of low security system, to give a expansion space to corporations not linked to alliances.
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2007.01.15 11:46:00 -
[41]
Whoever said group missions - that's a pretty nice idea actually. It'd be good to see some missions explicitly designed to require more group interaction, with their rewards tweaked as such.
Then again, if more exploration deadspaces would drop, and actually drop some decent loot, I've heard they're quite the challenge.
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VIctoria Ballentyne
Minmatar
Pale Riders Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.01.15 15:36:00 -
[42]
Personally I think most carebears need to grow a set and get into low sec. If your corp knows what it's doing you're not going to get hassled. The rats are bigger, the roids are more shiny.
Problem I've found with 0.0 alliances, even ones I'm on friendly terms with is the pure arrogance and the ridiculous terms for access to their space. Things in 0.0 are never going to change because the trigger happy loons in 0.0 dont' want things to change....
Let them stay in 0.0 and blow each other up.
"Forbid a man to think for himself or to act for himself and you may add the joy of piracy and the zest of smuggling to his life"
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.15 16:04:00 -
[43]
There are currently about 70.000 characters in alliances. Let's assume that there's about 10-15% more alliance-member related caracters not in those alliances but effectively part of the alliance population anyway. Let's say we make it a round 80.000 characters then.
Theres about 120.000 paying accounts, which adds up to about 200.000 (?) characters with some skilltraining in Eve. Since you don't put your trial alt nor your noobie alt in your alliance corp, that means that of the 200.000 paid for and trained up characters in Eve there'd be a good 40% within alliance corporations.
How exactly does 90% of Eve consist of empire mission runners that don't want nothing to do with allainces and their stupid pvp again ?
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh
Naz: John is a realist
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Mathsage
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Posted - 2007.01.15 18:07:00 -
[44]
In Alliance =/= In 0.0
If what you were saying is true, the effect we see in game (with Empire crowded, and 0.0 being....well, not so crowded) would be just the opposite.
If the population density weren't a problem, the Devs wouldn't express their desire to move people to low sec/0.0
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Jessamine
Freedom United
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Posted - 2007.01.15 19:57:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Don't call me a griefer just becase you fly a space pinata and I choose to be the one to swing the stick
/sigged
Yazoul Samaiel [BNC] <BoB>: i hate over priced T2 ****
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Don't call me a griefer just becase you fly a space pinata and I choose to be the one to swing the stick
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.15 21:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jessamine
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Don't call me a griefer just becase you fly a space pinata and I choose to be the one to swing the stick
/sigged
I made it to some ones sig finally see it pays off to be a forum who-re 
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Jounin Tradoc
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.01.16 00:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Don't call me a griefer just becase you fly a space pinata and I choose to be the one to swing the stick
Then don't ***ch when you can't hit it, or when one of them turns around, kicks your ass, then breaks your stick.
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 00:52:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jounin Tradoc
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Don't call me a griefer just becase you fly a space pinata and I choose to be the one to swing the stick
Then don't ***ch when you can't hit it, or when one of them turns around, kicks your ass, then breaks your stick.
The day a hauler kills me first wait actually that isn't gonna happen anytime soon I'm pretty sure I could pop most haulers before they even lock me
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Athren Soulsteal
Gallente
Intergalaxy Salvage And Repair
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Posted - 2007.01.16 22:02:00 -
[49]
This has been discussed for ages, there are three (3) simple steps to getting players down to lowsec but CCP refuses to end the Prat welfare program.
1.Move all the ore types back into empire and return it back to 2003 standards including the massive belts then hide half of them.
2.Start treating criminals as criminals; you take a sec hit for breaking the law. Remove the ability for criminals to buy, dock or deal with any empire station especially those corps they are negative to.
3.Remove the ability to gate camp even in 0.0 space. Alliances should guard the resources not the gates. If they want to claim a systemĘs resources then they should be forced to actually guard the resources not an artificial bottleneck.
ThatĘs it, thatĘs all it would take. But lets examine the points.
1.CCP moved all the rare ores out to 0.0 for no storyline reason, in fact the only reason was to try and force players out to the (at the time) PVP zones. When that did not work the lessened the effect of becoming a criminal and in acted what became know as the Prat welfare program. Back to the ore, storyline wise there has never been any explanation why, if all the rare ore had dried up in empire, none of the five empires have moved to claim it. Heck the amarr should be capturing every system along their border why would the let such vital resources go unchallenged (or any of the races). The only reason 0.0 should exist is for players that want to build their own empires but the resources sould be no better than that in empire control.
2.CCP has forgotten why it originally instituted criminal flagging. It did so because there was a legal way to kill other players, wardqs or in 0.0 space. They need to go back to the original plan on how to treat criminal, kick them out of empire space. Yes there was a point in time before the Prat welfare program where the Prats had to consider Risk vrs Reward, Risk=loosing access to empire resources vrs reward=easy kills
3.There used to be a lot more access points to 0.0 space but those in 0.0 had complained that it was to hard to chase down players (ok there were only about 3000 logged on a day) so CCP removed a lot of the gates and removed the highways system to make choke points. While that could have been an argued necessity back in 04 it does not apply today with 30k+/- players logging in. CCP needs to remove all the choke points by adding 10x the number of access point to all 0.0 areas. This will force anyone that wants to claim a system to actually patrol and protect the system. Also 0.0 was never intended to be the end-up place for all players, it was supposed to be (and should be) the place to go to create your own little empire. Most players should be able live in empire space 1-0 to 0.1 happily signing NAPs or fighting wars without interference for the outcasts in 0.0 (which is what was originally pitched (intended) back in 2002/2003).
Quote:
Think about the people that did fight you fairly. Think.... that were honorable and helped you out in times of need. Those are the real heroes of EVE.
I wish I could fit all the Quote |
Mathsage
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Posted - 2007.01.17 06:12:00 -
[50]
YES!!!
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Vincent Almasy
Gallente
The Underground
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Posted - 2007.01.19 14:46:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Athren Soulsteal
This has been discussed for ages, there are three (3) simple steps to getting players down to lowsec but CCP refuses to end the Prat welfare program.
1.Move all the ore types back into empire and return it back to 2003 standards including the massive belts then hide half of them.
2.Start treating criminals as criminals; you take a sec hit for breaking the law. Remove the ability for criminals to buy, dock or deal with any empire station especially those corps they are negative to.
3.Remove the ability to gate camp even in 0.0 space. Alliances should guard the resources not the gates. If they want to claim a systemĘs resources then they should be forced to actually guard the resources not an artificial bottleneck.
Question i ask you then is what point is it then to go into 0.0 if you can just si tin empire and get all you need? The idea was the minerals were striped mine fully our of the systems to build the current empire in empire space if you didn't know. rarer ore is in low sec as it's not a empire down there and no reason to get the minerals from it with no protection, this is also the reason for mid rare or in low sec as less police forces there and only stations and sentry guns.
I'd agree for the corporations fefurse docking if -5.0. the season for -5 is it's the same as concord shooting you when you enter .5. but you can not refuse buying and selling as it would then affect the sellers and buys who could care less about another player's strandings.
If you can't gate camp then make alliances to have their down sentury guards at gates then as it would be too damn much to protect and it would be pointless to try and protect everything efficently to make it safe without using all resources, if you haven't notices most pleases are only in those bottle necked areas. If you don't like the bottle neck camping get a titan and make your own path into their capital.
Putting in those changes would make for much less pvp as people won't be able to dock and so will get bored, the or proces will bottem out as it's never any risk to mine now. less mission running and only up to BS class ships and BPOs needed no need for caps then either. This goes agenst what EVE is and what CCP openly says it wants. EVE is a mostly PVP game and CCP wants more people out of empire space.
PS: On a side note, I hope they never fix Jita, people just need to learn to spread their **** out into the next system maybe what had only those 5 people in it, makes getting to it and shoping there much better and much quicker.
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Nadar
Minmatar
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.01.19 17:57:00 -
[52]
Originally by: sukio
you guys get all excited about 30k people when its NOTHING in the gaming world when MILLIONS could enjoy playing if it was more user friendly.
If CCP had the same resources as Blizzard does, I guess we'd see a lot more people here aswell. Also remember that EVE is a rather complex game compared to WoW and the likes. WoW attracts kids while EVE attracts more mature people.
Also #2: Please show me another MMORPG that can have over 30k users on ONE server? WoW can only have like 5-10k before it gets laggy as feck itself 
---
What I write are my own opinions and it does not reflect my corp or alliance opinions, so kindly bugger off.
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Hubbins
Species 5618
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.19 19:19:00 -
[53]
If you want 0.0 with little risk then go pay BOB. I hear they have a few new regions stocked with outposts   
And this BS about not being able to travel to 0.0 is just that. All the paths to 0.0 go through low sec as it should be. Its not easy and isn't supposed to be.
I have been blown up plenty of time losing tens to hundreds of millions isks worth of gear, you don't hear me whining. You need find a time to go when you know it isn't camped and look at the map for ships blown up and number of jumps in the past hour. It can be done solo but needs luck and some brains.
And if you didn't know, CCP wants to make this a PvP game.
PS I am not a PvPer, I mine and rat.
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Ashlii
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Posted - 2007.01.20 21:21:00 -
[54]
That isn't exactly a proud point. It takes more computers per server to run the Eve online game then it does to run the WoW game. And Eve plays a bit better because most of the "characters" are static meshes, not flexible characters that have to be re-figured and redrawn from near scratch on each frame.
Where The boast is that Eve has up to 35k of players on one server, Most other MMOs have scores of servers that can handle 10k or so each.
Here have been the biggest complaints of my friends who really do like Sci-Fi but will not play Eve.
1.) I can never catch up to the older players.
2.) I like to see my character rather then the outside of a ship.
3.) I don't like PvP.
4.) Takes too long to skill up.
But I bet I could get about a dozen friends to play if #2 and #3 were fixed. If I can get that many more to play by myself, we could easilly double, or more the players playing.
This was one of the reasons I opened up a post discussing player rented servers. CCP could make double their income as they do now if they opened up the ability for players to run and possibly modify the content of a server of CCPs ownership.
Ashlii
Originally by: Nadar
Originally by: sukio
you guys get all excited about 30k people when its NOTHING in the gaming world when MILLIONS could enjoy playing if it was more user friendly.
If CCP had the same resources as Blizzard does, I guess we'd see a lot more people here aswell. Also remember that EVE is a rather complex game compared to WoW and the likes. WoW attracts kids while EVE attracts more mature people.
Also #2: Please show me another MMORPG that can have over 30k users on ONE server? WoW can only have like 5-10k before it gets laggy as feck itself
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Stardragon999
Amarr
Prox XII
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:04:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ashlii
3.) I don't like PvP.
But I bet I could get about a dozen friends to play if #2 and #3 were fixed. If I can get that many more to play by myself, we could easilly double, or more the players playing.
That statement implys that them not liking pvp is something that the developers need to fix in their PVP oriented game which is about as far from the truth as possible. If CCP wants EVE to be a PVP game than its a PVP game and they are not going to "FIX (which also implys that PVP is a broken game mechanic or something when its the backbone for the game) PVP just so more people will play.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:18:00 -
[56]
Yeah, if you don't like PvP and you don't like the training system and you don't like spaceships, go play something else, where you can grind all day to surpass other players without ever having to compete with them except to compare the fruits of your grinding.
That's not something CCP has to fix, any more than they have to make an option to turn all the Guristas into Orcs. That's not their target audience, and those people can get bent. EvE isn't for them. Go away.
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Ashlii
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Posted - 2007.01.20 22:24:00 -
[57]
Not liking PvP is a problem for CCP if they want a broader player base. There are not enough ways to punish PvP rats. Theoretically, once you start getting a bad status, you can no longer come in to empire. But I've seen some pretty bad ones in semi-safe space, in shuttles no less, because Concord will protect 100m bountied rats from bounty hunters.
As for Being able to see their character, I mean at least part of the time. The Fix with the space station movement will be good enough to attract those nay-sayers.
Ashlii
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TheDevilsJury
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 01:27:00 -
[58]
I've often flown a defenseless unescorted (and sometimes cargo expanded) hauler through hostile 0.0 or a warzone.
I've been killed while travelling two times that I can remember. One time I was in a region without instas (this was before warp to zero). One time I died to an MC force recon gang that I did not think was at the gate.
If you believe that haulers and barges are banned from low-sec then you fail at this game. You would die just the same no matter what ship you flew - interceptor, HAC, battleship, hauler, it's all the same when you get shot and don't know what you're doing.
^^^^ You can hide, but you can't run. ^^^^ |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 02:40:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Ithildin
Bah! The one and only problem with 0.0 is that 90% of the solar systems are ****e.
Non-NPC sovereign systems should ALL be bumped up to between -0.7 and -1.0. Currently it's between -0.0 to -1.0.
In systems below -0.7 there simply isn't enough good ore to be had, making the valuable systems very very crowded.
That, and removed forcefields so people will have to use the CORPORATE HANGARS for what they are intended.
/signed
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Pakmule
Caldari
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 04:34:00 -
[60]
This thread is funny.
I want to go get rich in 0.0 but the bad people kill me!
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar
The Nest
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.21 06:59:00 -
[61]
this thread is funny
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U Fester
Amarr
Infinity Enterprises
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.01.22 15:00:00 -
[62]
Reading this thread makes me all warm inside knowing there are people out there who are trully innocent. 
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Jessica May
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Posted - 2007.01.22 15:43:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Jessica May on 22/01/2007 15:42:51
Make the number of systems that can be laid claim too relative to the number of members in the corp/alliance.
This would stop corp/alliances taking over more territory than it could effectively patrol and control. If you want to take over the world you need more than a handful of people...
This would free up more 0.0 space and allow small corps to move in. If the neighbours wanted to take over their area as well then they're going to have to increase their numbers.
A 0.0 based corp I was in I was able to travel 25 jumps without seeing a soul, which was stupid for a corp of only 120 people, which where all located in 4-5 systems.
If this doesn't add up then connect the number of systems they can lay claim too to the Corp Management skills of the CEO.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:32:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Jessica May
more territory than it could effectively patrol and control.
That's the problem. A hundred T2-equipped battleships, eight carriers and twenty dreadnoughts are enough to control any region, if there's no military force that can challenge you. Taking and holding space is easy if you have teh skillpoints to do it. The real injustice is the fact that the resources that make 0.0 appealing are not being utilized. Complexes are run and a minute portion of the rats nearest the outposts are harvested, but the ore is mostly untouched, because 0.0 is the domain of combat pilots, not miners.
Whatever mining gets done out there is done by alts, and the lack of targets makes the combat characters trigger happy, so any corp that tries to put up a POS with a refinery and grab a little bit of the disused Crokite is annihilated on principle before they can earn back their investment.
It's not a problem CCP can fix by nerfing high-sec or introducing a capital miner. The problem is the attitude of the established playerbase and the fact that combat characters are heavily subsidized by the game. Rat bounties and loot are easy money, and harvesting them feels like the grind in other MMOs. If a player can maintain a stable of T2 ships and gear, and buy capital ships from the income he gets from four daily hours of ratting, then there's no reason for him to pursue other professions or to allow others to pursue them.
The solution is to nerf combat characters. Take away rat bounties in 0.0, introduce a standing system that lets you befriend the rats so that at the highest level of 0.0 life you neither need nor want to go from belt to belt slaughtering battleships. Rogue drones would naturally be the exception.
Make it so that faction mods come primarily from faction agents, so NPCers can pursue a career hunting NPCs that linked to the NPC factions, and those that don't want to go that route can go to 0.0 and compete with other players directly.
I like the new regions. No loot drops except for alloys and no complexes means there's no artificial wealth out there. Everything comes from doing work, and pirates make a lot by destroying haulers and stealing their cargo, or by ransoming expensive ships. No free money from NPCs, no agents printing isk and implants ex nihilo, just pure player versus player competition for limited space and resources.
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