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Mazzarins Demise	Posted - 2007.01.13 08:35:00 - [61] Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 13/01/2007 08:32:08 I agree, everyone has their own definitions of Honor (thus nailing down a "true" definition rather daunting) and it can become even more complex when it is used in a virtual world, as you already detailed. (Sorry if I am restating your points, I feel the same way you do as well) For me, someone who plays their character as evil (where they kill others for no reason, steal, grief etc.) has nothing to do with the person playing the character but has everything to do with the fact that they can get away with it. I'd hate to harckon back to remedial psychology but I distinctly remember the term Voyeurism (which is the act of watching somebody that doesn't know you are watching them) and why the people who partake in it, enjoy it so much. This because it is safe, the other person doesn't know they are being watched and the watcher will never be caught. This again can be equated to EVE or any other multiplayer game simply because (as already stated) that the evil character will never meet the person he acted upon nor will he receive any form retribution for his acts from the person in our actual, physical world.
Shakuul Caldari The Imperial Commonwealth The Sundering	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:00:00 - [62] Some people don't use "hax" or whatever because they see it as "unfair." This is fine, but then they try to impose it on others. I don't see the justification behind forcing someone to make the same in game choices as yourself. In EVE, the only real, binding rules are made by CCP: game mechanics and the EULA. Sure, ultimately EVE is about personal enjoyment. I would argue that this is also true of everything, if you define "personal enjoyment" loosely. Basically, you aren't going to do anything unless you see it as somehow worthwhile or serving whatever purpose you choose. The assumption here is that you enjoy doing things you think are worthwhile over those you don't. This can include a huge number of things. In EVE, many players enjoy helping their allaince, or even random newbies. Its all personal preference. I am skeptical of the claim that actions of people in game reflect significantly on their personalities. I would argue that a lot of the pvp in game is for fun, and despite all of the trash talk etc that goes on, pvp is morally equivalent to a practical joke. Its all in good fun. Also, nobody has posted links to any data or psychological research indicating a correlation between game actions and real personality.
Dukath	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:23:00 - [63] Originally by: Rudy Metallo Edited by: Rudy Metallo on 12/01/2007 11:58:26 Honor. Dignity.Games. Why do people see correlation between these three things? games were made to have fun. For personal enjoyment. That means that when I'm having fun, the game is serving it's purpose. I don't see the need to make this a "fair fight" and put myself blatently in your path so that you can gank the hell out of me. I will use every trick, every underhanded menuever, every "hax" "cheat" or "dishonorable action" to my advantage. Discuss. Let me clear a few things up. 1. This is hypothetical, not actual. 2. By "hax" and "cheat" and meant those that are player-deemed, not CCP deemed. 3. I'm not talking about stealing from corps (which I would never do) as to using the log-in tactic (which I would do) I fixed it for you to make it only games and not video games. Btw, there is no rule in monopoly that you cannot steal money from another player when he goes to a bathroom break. I guess you also do that? In cardgames you also agree with a friend on a strategy to win vs a third guy? In football, when the other team has a wounded player on the field you'll just continue playing in stead of kicking the ball outside so the game is stopped? I mean its a game for YOUR personal enjoyment right? So anything within the stated rules is cool.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:33:00 - [64] My God, some of you people need a life! All of this psycho babble over a video game. Go outside and get some air. Oh and although the OP worded it VERY badly, I easily picked up on what he meant when he said "Hax, Tricks" ect. He meant he would use every thing "legally in game" at his disposal to win a battle but was exaggerating at how far he would go to do so. Of course after he said that 40 drones come out of the wood work and give him a lecture about cheating.
Kunming Outcasts	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:44:00 - [65] Once you grow up a lil, you will realize cheating wins you 1 battle, your reputation wins many! Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.14 12:30:00 - [66] Originally by: Kunming Once you grow up a lil, you will realize cheating wins you 1 battle, your reputation wins many! Heres a well earned reputation: Firmus Ixion Log Off To Save Ships Always. If you're lucky you'll hit them before they ctrl + q (but my god you have to be fast.) but usually they'll just log their t2 haulers while cloaked and then you have **** all chance of stopping them. MydKnightt is the most recent culprit along with his smack talking friend... I dont mind the ratting battleships logging to save their skins but the haulers in empire (During an empire war started by FIX) are disgraceful. Logging while cloaked and then sending in noob corp alts to check if its safe is rediculous... and CCP do not see it as an exploit. Most FIX pilots fight hard and do their best and are to be commended for it... but the few that like to talk smack and use various tricks like logoffski are giving the rest a bad reputation. Decide who you want to be in the future FIX. And what you want people to remember you for.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 12:33:00 - [67] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/01/2007 12:30:20 There is no honour in losing. Ctrl+Q is a feature. If you really want an honourable game, ask CCP to design an honour system into the gameplay. The more honourable you are, the less loot destruction when you kill someone. Gankbears want easy kills and they will cry about their victims having no honour. Such irony. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Osiris Warp E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.14 13:10:00 - [68] Edited by: Osiris Warp on 14/01/2007 13:06:55 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/01/2007 12:30:20 There is no honour in losing. Ctrl+Q is a feature. If you really want an honourable game, ask CCP to design an honour system into the gameplay. The more honourable you are, the less loot destruction when you kill someone. Gankbears want easy kills and they will cry about their victims having no honour. Such irony. um.... Gankbears?? wth is that but anyway i was the guy that got MydKnightt he was in an Impel i was in a raptor and had 1 huricane one jump away he was on his way to help me when they guy vanished. That aint really a gank I mean i could not even hurt the thing and I imagine it would have lasted a while to the Hurricane attacking it but we will never know will we. Oh did I forget to mention there where 3 other FIX in local 2 of wich where not AFK as i saw them about 10 minutes later. Personaly i think it was weak of this guy to log he probably could have tanked us and got 4 or 5 of his friends there in a hurry to gank me and my 1 friend. Cheers Osiris Warp "ACHTUNG! Osiris Warp may actually be a spider-human hybrid
Stitcher Caldari J.I.T. Enterprises Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 14:17:00 - [69] Edited by: Stitcher on 14/01/2007 14:15:00 See the siggy. +++ FLA - The hardest thing in EVE is to be the good guys.
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.01.14 16:55:00 - [70] Personally I see computer games the same way as any other game I play (Rugby, Hockey, Paintballing etc.) I play these for my own enjoyment. To do this though, I have to play (mostly) within the rules of the game I am playing. Bizzareley, I am happy to use borderline tactics (those outside of the rules but hard to enforce) outside of a computer game to make up for my lack of physical skill, and get into an opponents head (sports psyhcology yay) on the playing field, but when I play a computer game I play within the rules of that "world". I expect others to play to those same rules in a computer game, and make it a fair test of skill. Converesley if someone uses the same tactics against me in a "rl" game it spices it up for me, and I enjoy the game all the more. Well I never said I wasn't a hipocrite Akkarin <3 - Immy
Uhu	Posted - 2007.01.14 20:59:00 - [71] Speaking in simple words, there are 2 variables that define your gameplay style. That is efficiency and reliability. When you cheat, you are efficient but not reliable. When you mine in 1.0 all the time, you are reliable but not efficient. If you play solo, efficiency is the only concern. If you want to join/organise a group then reliability is more important. Of course it's better to have them both high. Obey the rules, play fair and smash the opposition. And that's the most fun.
Neuromandis	Posted - 2007.01.15 02:34:00 - [72] Edited by: Neuromandis on 15/01/2007 02:31:17 Interesting topic. To me, it has many layers, each thing defined on its own. I do not engage in SOCIAL behavior that I would not use in realy life. I will not call names, et.c. unless I would also do it in person. But as far as PLAYSTYLE goes... Well, I guess most of us wouldn't shoot other people because they're not our friends (nbsi) et.c., so something different is on. Bar exploring, you win, you were better. There are no "low-blows", "scum tactics" and all that - bar scamming and general griefing tactics. But if I were in an interceptor and you undocked with a smartbomber and podded my @$$, i should have known better, cudos. If you manage to gank/bang/whatever with however sneaky trick, perfect. If you brought 10 friends to beat me to a pulp as soon as you spotted me, fantastic. The worst I see is the same people that scream "eve is a game of non-consensual pvp" to say "hey that was not a fair fight" and stuff like that. So, to sum it up, I don't like people to behave like @$$****, but I laugh at people that believe that others should offer them fair fights. That does not mean that I don;t enjoy a nice 1vs1 if it was offered and accepted, it means that people ASSUMING 1on1 and getting gangbanged 0have no reason to whine. There is nothing fair about fights.

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