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Abbey Kharum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
There have been quite a few WH threads on here over the last few days that I have read. There has even been the odd interesting post.
One theme that keeps being brought up is that W-Space is full of abandoned or not used POS's.
My friends and I are quite new to the game about 5 months old and we have been trying out different aspects of EvE from Low-sec PvP to FW and now we have just set-up as we like to describe a little out-post in a wormhole.
When we where initially daytrippping WH's we also noted a lot of POS's and it quickly became clear that scanning a POS was not a reason to avoid the system.
We then started looking for these POS's and in our noobness we asked each other... If it is offline can we steal it??.
The more I think about it the more it seems like a good idea, and why shouldn't we be able to? it was our natural complusion!
Maybe there is a time delay from going off-line until it gets a further status called "Abandoned". if it is then "Abandoned" for a further period of time and not re-occupied it falls out of orbit and self destructs!
I am sure there are market ramifications for this and it might hurt POS manufacturing in the short term etc etc.
Discuss (I expect nothing other than the usual quality of replies).
P.S. Never write a forum post on here without copy and pasting it. Hitting the post button rarely seems to post anything!
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RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
150
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
if it's offline then shoot it http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Jenshae Chiroptera
249
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
POS control tower stands on its own because of how long they take to destroy them. Directional scan (D-scan) for Force Fields.
Yeah, I would like to see high hacking skills used to get control towers to repackage when they are found offline.  Ideas and stuff EVE - the game of sand castles, either building them or kicking them down. |

Abbey Kharum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
RaTTuS wrote:if it's offline then shoot it
I would rather steal/recover it.
A POS shouldn't just be for Christmas you know...
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
126
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Or, maybe capture it and start using it for your own purposes. I really like the idea of discovering abandoned player-built POSes and bringing them online. Adds to the exploration factor. Commanding Officer of the Treacle Tart Brigade SLAPD Director |

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
71
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Yeah, I would like to see high hacking skills used to get control towers to repackage when they are found offline. 
This... but like the OP said, there should be a waiting period before it becomes abandoned (3-7 days maybe).
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Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
POSs in WHs are still wrong IMO. It's a 0.0 system, you shouldn't be as safe as essentially high-sec when it comes to what can bash down your tower.
Gonna assume they don't wanna build a cap inside your hole, and we're talking about C4 and below:
You put up a large tower. Keep this fueled and death/dickstar it, and the most they can bring to you are battleships (Battlecruisers in a C1). I know there's a lot of people that have bashed towers in battleships and I think you'll all agree, it's mindless boring as **** thankless work. Very rarely do you get anything substantial at the end of it, in terms of gameplay or ISK, and the job is so dull and crap that any satisfaction you get at the end is just for the fact that it's finally over and you can go sleep cos it's 5am. Throw into this the dickstar tower and mass constrictions. This means that unless you find a HS each time, you can't bring forces into the hole (The chances of rolling the connection back on anything over than a C6 aren't worth it). Now when you're there, you're getting jammed to hell every so often, making it take all that longer.
C5/C6 are both different. C5s the only real way is to Cap-Inject: Have a scout in that WH find every nullsec he can over a while. Any which are in range of your caps, bring 3 in and logoffski. Caps bash POS, it's just a small nullsec pos-bash fleet.
C6s you have the option of force rolling the hole to get the target back again. There are so few C6s that this is a practical task (as shown the excellent Clarion Call vid). Of course, you require caps inside your hole, but that's no massive deal. This can give larger pos-bash fleets.
Side note to those that want moongoo in WHs: Not until the moongoo can be stolen/denied without smashing down the entire tower. Otherwise you have a fairly safe tower with a massive ISK printing machine. |

seany1212
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
35
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Posted - 2011.12.13 11:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aedeal wrote:
You put up a large tower. Keep this fueled and death/dickstar it, and the most they can bring to you are battleships (Battlecruisers in a C1). I know there's a lot of people that have bashed towers in battleships and I think you'll all agree, it's mindless boring as **** thankless work. Very rarely do you get anything substantial at the end of it, in terms of gameplay or ISK, and the job is so dull and crap that any satisfaction you get at the end is just for the fact that it's finally over and you can go sleep cos it's 5am. Throw into this the dickstar tower and mass constrictions. This means that unless you find a HS each time, you can't bring forces into the hole (The chances of rolling the connection back on anything over than a C6 aren't worth it). Now when you're there, you're getting jammed to hell every so often, making it take all that longer.
Do you guys even play in wormholes anymore? If a group wants a tower down and have the capabilities to they will take it down regardless of what class it is and whether its dickstar'd, fleet of tengus could hammer a pos in a couple of hours and that dickstar is predictable and useless unless it has active pos gunners. It's whether the force required to take it down is worth the reward of actually removing it  |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
354
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
To get back on topic, I rather like the OP's suggestion that long abandoned POS towers take on a new "abandoned" status and be conquerable, repackagable, etc.
Make it the same 30+ days inactivity timer that an anchored GSC goes by perhaps. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |

Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
71
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
seany1212 wrote: If a group wants a tower down and have the capabilities to they will take it down regardless
Agreed. I have taken a POS down as part of a pure stealth bomber group. |

Aedeal
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
You can take it down. That wasn't the point of my post. The point was that the effort and more importantly the time is, as both of you above said, really not worth it unless you have a massive reason to be there. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
728
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Posted - 2011.12.13 12:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aedeal wrote:You can take it down. That wasn't the point of my post. The point was that the effort and more importantly the time is, as both of you above said, really not worth it unless you have a massive reason to be there.
So, to summarize, you're babbling on about something where you have no idea what the hell you're talking about.
Anyhow... I had the idea awhile back that a POS, if offline for at least a month, would lose it's "allegiance" with whomever planted it. This would mean the next person to come along at this point could unanchor the POS.
However... then comes the question of ripple effects... how would this affect the POS manufacturing market, null sec, wormholes etc. if there was this sudden influx of basically free POS's into the scene? Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Mistress Motion
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:To get back on topic, I rather like the OP's suggestion that long abandoned POS towers take on a new "abandoned" status and be conquerable, repackagable, etc.
Make it the same 30+ days inactivity timer that an anchored GSC goes by perhaps.
This would be great for small few man corps in hisec, since every 0.5 system is full of offline ancient pos's. Then again, it wouldn't really take too much people to burn that pos without shields. That said, there seems to be some amount of hisec corps who already are doing the cleaning job and wardeccing just to smash offlined ones.
I can still imagine this would be good thing in WH's. |

Obax Bannon
Fidelis Technologies
29
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:POS control tower stands on its own because of how long they take to destroy them. Directional scan (D-scan) for Force Fields. Yeah, I would like to see high hacking skills used to get control towers to repackage when they are found offline. 
This I like Would be nice to be able to hack into any abandoned tower and change it over to your corp or even to just be able to unanchor it.
I mean its hardly feasable for any small corp to come along and kill a large tower, this seems like a great alternative |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
283
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'd go so far as to say that if a POS is offline, it should be vulnerable to hacking attacks. Once it's hacked, it's hacked to your corp and you can online or unanchor it.
This should be doable in hisec as well as low/null/ws, to clean out all the placeholder/abandoned POSes in hisec. |

Abbey Kharum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just came back from lunch and nice to see good support for the idea!
Please try and keep it on topic. This is simply about recovering/capturing/changing ownership of an off-line POS.
please keep posting if you support the idea and maybe we can attract some Blue attention! |

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
355
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Posted - 2011.12.13 13:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I'd go so far as to say that if a POS is offline, it should be vulnerable to hacking attacks. Once it's hacked, it's hacked to your corp and you can online or unanchor it.
This should be doable in hisec as well as low/null/ws, to clean out all the placeholder/abandoned POSes in hisec.
Yeah, that's a better mechanic than abandoned timers.
Hack it - make the chance really small and/or require several successes so it takes a little while (at least 10 minutes) - and then give it a reinforced timer where the original owners get eve mail and a time period to try and come un-hack it and put it back online. This is my signature.-á There are many others like it, but this one is mine. |

Velicitia
Open Designs
194
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I'd go so far as to say that if a POS is offline, it should be vulnerable to hacking attacks. Once it's hacked, it's hacked to your corp and you can online or unanchor it.
This should be doable in hisec as well as low/null/ws, to clean out all the placeholder/abandoned POSes in hisec.
Hack and it unanchors (everything). Otherwise, you can potentially "pick up" POS all over the ******* place because the hacker(s) don't have POS roles. |

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
728
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I'd go so far as to say that if a POS is offline, it should be vulnerable to hacking attacks. Once it's hacked, it's hacked to your corp and you can online or unanchor it.
This should be doable in hisec as well as low/null/ws, to clean out all the placeholder/abandoned POSes in hisec. Yeah, that's a better mechanic than abandoned timers. Hack it - make the chance really small and/or require several successes so it takes a little while (at least 10 minutes) - and then give it a reinforced timer where the original owners get eve mail and a time period to try and come un-hack it and put it back online.
I like where you're going with this... but I think the reinforced timer would wind up hurting the efforts to clean out wormholes of their abandoned POS's with little to no chance of the prior owners finding entry to the abandoned system to reactivate it. If you're in empire, you have little to no chance at all of finding any particular wormhole system on short notice. Plus the poor bugger that did the hacking may be up against his own way home being EoL so time's an issue there. Six months in the hole... it changes a man. |

Barakkus
1186
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Should just make the tower unanchor after 90 days, that way people can just scoop em :) |

Abbey Kharum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
I like some of the idea's keep it coming.
With some of the ideas here an off-line POS could be a nice magnate for small gang PvP too.... |

Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
284
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I'd go so far as to say that if a POS is offline, it should be vulnerable to hacking attacks. Once it's hacked, it's hacked to your corp and you can online or unanchor it.
This should be doable in hisec as well as low/null/ws, to clean out all the placeholder/abandoned POSes in hisec. Hack and it unanchors (everything). Otherwise, you can potentially "pick up" POS all over the ******* place because the hacker(s) don't have POS roles. I don't see why POS roles would have anything to do with it. If someone's let their POS run out of fuel, the defenses are down. If the POS is then hacked, oh well so sad someone had firmware access to the tower and could rewrite the auth routines.
If the POS is fuelled and online, welp guess you don't have access and can only glare at it angrily across space. |

Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
68
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
I vote for dedicated class of pos salvage ships which just hack the anchoring codes and change ownership of a pos.
Make it take X mins and produce one mail That there is a security attempt on the pos.
if the owners can't show up un twenty mins (remember they got a bucket load of notifications that this pos was low on fuel), pos flips ownerrship to hacker.
This one change alone carves a huge career for pod pilots. 60 mins large,40 medium, 20 small (with perfect hacking skills, dedicated ship and modules etc)
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Barakkus
1186
|
Posted - 2011.12.13 14:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Spurty wrote:I vote for dedicated class of pos salvage ships which just hack the anchoring codes and change ownership of a pos.
Make it take X mins and produce one mail That there is a security attempt on the pos.
if the owners can't show up in time (remember they got a bucket load of notifications that this pos was low on fuel), pos flips ownerrship to hacker.
This one change alone carves a huge career for pod pilots. 60 mins large,40 medium, 20 small (with perfect hacking skills, dedicated ship and modules etc)
Make it 3 days large, 2 medium and 1 day small. |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
542
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
no, no free towers and mods to carebears looking to "safe up" in a hole because high sec is too dangerous
you want the tower gone SHOOT IT if you're not willing to do the work to set up shop in a hole you shouldn't be there The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
68
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
Barakkus wrote:Spurty wrote:I vote for dedicated class of pos salvage ships which just hack the anchoring codes and change ownership of a pos.
Make it take X mins and produce one mail That there is a security attempt on the pos.
if the owners can't show up in time (remember they got a bucket load of notifications that this pos was low on fuel), pos flips ownerrship to hacker.
This one change alone carves a huge career for pod pilots. 60 mins large,40 medium, 20 small (with perfect hacking skills, dedicated ship and modules etc) Make it 3 days large, 2 medium and 1 day small.
Minutes mate. Minutes... ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |

Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
6
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
seany1212 wrote:Do you guys even play in wormholes anymore? If a group wants a tower down and have the capabilities to they will take it down regardless of what class it is and whether its dickstar'd, fleet of tengus could hammer a pos in a couple of hours and that dickstar is predictable and useless unless it has active pos gunners. It's whether the force required to take it down is worth the reward of actually removing it 
Only because most people are dumb and lazy and don't know how to fit a POS for w-space. 80 Caldari ECMs will discourage even a 100-strong tengu blob ready to invade, as I can tell you from experience. Sure, theoretically they could just bring 200... only there is no one in w-space who has those numbers. Even then it would be ******* annoying.
Only way to kill a POS like that in c4 and below it to build your own dreads inside, all the while being vulnerable to the residents' dreads.
Actually, the best way to capture a system that has heavily fortified POSes is to just move in and make daily life hell for the residents. If you are stronger than them in the field, they'll pack up and leave soon enough. |

Abbey Kharum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
I like the 60 - 40 - 20.
Although once complete, the end result should be the packaged item.
The new owner should have to go through the process of anchoring and on-lining if they want to make it operational straight away rather than just bringing fuel in? |

Abbey Kharum
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.12.13 14:30:00 -
[29] - Quote
THIS IS NOT ... a thread debating if POS's should be allowed in wormholes or not.
Please stay on topic!
This is about a secondary means of acquiring the structures that has the added benefit of clearing up space.
Most of the suggestions so far require an increased investment in time to recover and get the POS operational.
The trade for me should be:
Time + Risk + Additional skill training = Ability to acquire abandoned structures
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Elson Tamar
Lion Investments
66
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Posted - 2011.12.13 15:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
I approve of theft. |
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