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Passive shield tanks for PvP. Lets find some setups that work.

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Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:28:00 - [1] Edited by: Pottsey on 13/01/2007 10:32:03 I am fed up of hearing things along the lines of ôAnd those people are also clueless and will never win pvp fights with those passive tanks, because they will either lack tackle ability, or they will have to kill their tank to be able to tackle.ö Not only that but I plan to get into a lot of PvP this year. So any tips on PvP would be appreciated along with what needs to be on a PvP setup. WhatÆs a normal Myrmidon active tank setup like? My first quick attempt. http://www.dissonance-corp.com/Files/Myrmidonpvp.JPG Fully passive, Nos immune, afterburner, warp scrabbler EM passive harder with lvl 0 skill so resistance can be boosted. Enough cap regen without Nos to use everything. HP/sec 211.8 solo. Shield Hitpoint buffer 9.5k and all the fittings are cheap T1 or T2. How could it be improved? Would a full row of PDS for hitpoints be better? How important is Nos immune would 1 invul field and 1 EM active hardener be ok? It would make the tank much stronger but cap would be a problem under Nos. Has anyone got or had any successful passive shield tanks for PvP? Passive shield tanking guide click here
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:48:00 - [2] Edited by: Goumindong on 13/01/2007 10:55:38 Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 13/01/2007 10:31:40 I am fed up of hearing things along the lines of ôAnd those people are also clueless and will never win pvp fights with those passive tanks, because they will either lack tackle ability, or they will have to kill their tank to be able to tackle.ö Not only that but I plan to get into a lot of PvP this year. So any tips on PvP would be appreciated along with what needs to be on a PvP setup. WhatÆs a normal Myrmidon active tank setup like? My first quick attempt. http://www.dissonance-corp.com/Files/Myrmidonpvp.JPG Fully passive, Nos immune, afterburner, warp scrabbler EM passive harder with lvl 0 skill so resistance can be boosted. Enough cap regen without Nos to use everything. HP/sec 211.8 solo. Shield Hitpoint buffer 9.5k and all the fittings are cheap T1 or T2. How could it be improved? Would a full row of PDS for hitpoints be better? How important is Nos immune would 1 invul field and 1 EM active hardener be ok? It would make the tank much stronger but cap would be a problem under Nos. Has anyone got or had any successful passive shield tanks for PvP? If my setup is bad for PvP please explain why instead of just saying it sucks. If you are going for PvP and a passive tank, i would reserve the lows for damage mods and a DCU[though its probably already in there]. Since you dont need NOS to run your tank[400 normalized dps tank is pretty impresive] i would stick the biggest guns you can and an MWD. Run it like a brutix with drones, 6 hybrid turrets and an MWD with 5 heavy drones The real problem with the above setup is that it doesnt have a web and it doesnt have an MWD. The MWD isnt slot intensive so shouldnt be a big issue, but the web is. Without a web you will have a hard time holding ships with an MWD. You can MWD after them, but that is cap dependant and they will likly have an injector. The lows, with the blasters or AC's on top [AC's for even more cap independance and ease on the powergrid, blasters for damage], would be 3 damage mods, a DCU, and then an i-stab and a nano to close distances faster[and so you can outrun your target so long as it isnt a nano setup, reducing the need for the web]. Other options on top are NOS/NEUT heavy on the neut. This will drain your oponents cap[quite fast too] so that he cant run his propulsion mod and get away, it will also kill his tank, which is an added bonus. Anyway. nos/nos/nos/neut/neut/neut mwd/20km scram/ whatever else your tank is istab/istab/nano/nano/dcu/pds[trade PDS out for stabs/nanos if you are pg short] 5x ogres II[or sentry drones(gardes) if you are cheap or dont mind picking them up] [whatever rigs you are using go here] or 6x 220AC[425's if it fits] mwd/20km scram/ whatever else your tank is istab/nano/DCU/Gyro/Gyro/Gyro 5x ogres II[or sentry drones(gardes) if you are cheap or dont mind picking them up] OR 6x Ion/Electron Blasters[whatever fits] mwd/20km scram/ whatever else your tank is istab/nano/dcu/mag stab/mag stab/mag stab 5x ogres II[or sentry drones(gardes) if you are cheap or dont mind picking them up] Its a passive setup, so lean towards the gank setup, but the neut should be fairly strong as well, as lasers and hybrids need cap to run, and AC's are naturally weak against shields. ed: Im getting about 68 damage/second raw regen on that shield. Are you sure its a 218 dps tank? ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.13 10:52:00 - [3] Drake. 7x HML II 1x NOS 1x SCRAM 2x INVUL II 3x LSE II 2x PDS II 1x Shield Relay (One that gives you shield regen at expence of cap regen) 1x DC II RIGS: 2x Shield regen, 1x Shield extender With skills it's uber resists (BC lvl5) and shield around 23k with 350sec regen. No other ship can be passively tanked in PvP than drake. Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:02:00 - [4] What about nos/neut/neut/neut/neut/neut or 2 nos in case I came across another nos ship. Then take a microwarp instead of AB like you say and you wouldnÆt need a web to stop the other person running away. The hope drones do enough dps. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Abyssal Angel Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:12:00 - [5] I always enjoy reading your posts Pottsey, however unless I'm mistaken (and fi I am, m apologies) the tank on that myrmidon is not that high. 9923 shield with a 349 regen time. 9923/ 349 = 28.43 shield per second real regen is: 28.43 x 2.5(think it's the correct max regen from your posts?) = 71.08 shield max regen /sec With a 43% resist to EM it should be : 71.08 / 0.57 =124.7 DPS tanked. This number seem very low for pvping. However the myrm is a funny ship in the sense that it is a mini domi and can dish out damage almost like a domi(ooh gonna upset some peeps now). The bonii on the myrm doesn't really benifit it for passive tanking as you know ofc, and it can wield a nice armortank. For gang pvp the passively tanked myrm could indeed work, however fitting may be very tight. I would drop webbing duty on my gang mates and focus on dishing out damage. high: as many T2 neutrons with void as you can fit, or electrons if they clash horribly with the extenders. Med: Shield extenders and an invuln field. Low: 2 damage mod, mix of SPR and PDU's as to fit the cap usage. Measuring DPS versus npc's is just plain wrong, but I'll do it anyway and this setup rocks the socks off Angels night and day. I can't say the exact DPS, but I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of it, but it requires ofc some gunnery skills. Keep the passive setups coming. Oh on a sidenote ferrox with 5 heavy launcher and a drake, both passively tanked can trade missiles all day long ^^ Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ta! If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:13:00 - [6] Originally by: Pottsey What about nos/neut/neut/neut/neut/neut or 2 nos in case I came across another nos ship. Then take a microwarp instead of AB like you say and you wouldnÆt need a web to stop the other person running away. The hope drones do enough dps. Sentry drones cap out at about 375 DPS, heavy drones around 390. Which is plenty when your opponent cannot shoot back at you or run his tank. If you go full ion gank you will hit 850 or so DPS with a neutron setup[if it fits] around 900.[these are max numbers] If your opponent can run his tank, 300 DPS should be ok. I am still concerned your tank isnt as strong as you think it is. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Copine Callmeknau The Splinter Syndicate SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:19:00 - [7] 43% EM resist isn't enough. 1x nanophoon > Roughly 350ish damage per torp (w/ mjolnirs) = 1400 damage in a volley 1400 / 9500 = 14.7% of your shields. Will knock your shield from 38% -> 23% in a volley completely negating your peak recharge. 40% Kinetic resist is also balls. 1x Drake > 216 or so damage per Scourge Fury heavy missile = 1512 damage in a volley 1512 = 15.9% of your shields. Will knocks your shields from 38% -> 22% in a volley, again completely negating the peak charge. Same for caracal/cerb etc And any other alpha strike ship for that matter, 720 hurricane will overpower your passive tank in a few volleys. High dps ships like the brutix and harbinger will kill ya before you can lock them :p The tanking BC's will be able to tank your damage output for long enough to overpower your tank as well Maybe you'll be able to kill non gank fitted thoraxes at least? Needs more buffer, and EM shield rigs may be wise. Actually a complete rebuild would be good with more attention paid to resistances. ----- Originally by: wrong on so many levels you could only be more wrong if you where tuxford.
Thor Ba'aleron	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:29:00 - [8] IMO pvp tanks shouldn't be about regen, but about total absorption. Shield power relays in the lows leave you completely vulnerable to NOS, and even the most passive boats usually run some kind of active mod (scrambler, hardeners). If you cripple your cap with 3 shield power relays, you are never going to be able to tackle a battleship, as a few seconds of NOS will leave you capless. Drake 7 Launchers 1 Medium Energy Neutralizer 2 Large Shield Extenders 1 20km scrambler 1 EM Hardener 1 Invulnerability Field 1 10mn Microwarp Drive 4 PDS This works, and gives well over 14k in passive hardened shields. The PDS feed the Neutralizer and MWD, and give overall shield capacity, needed grid, and a reasonable level of regeneration. It won't passive tank as well as SPR versions, and it dosen't have a Ballistic, but it's a nice solo or small gang ship with a speed mod and decent dps. With a wingman, a battleship is no problem, and anything smaller (including T2 cruisers and frigs) is in deep ****.
Cs3Sl2 Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:29:00 - [9] The Vulture can boast a great passive tank with 5 L. Extender II's and an invul / photon T2. Slap 4 shield power relays in low and . Due to the T2 recharge time the tank is pretty impressive. Altho the DPS on the vulture isn't that good to begin with, i may stick a ballistic control in low or something (my gun skills suck) not great for solo PvP but good for gang were you have some more DPS flying around
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:35:00 - [10] O.K. I made a mistake above. Heavy drone numbers to come. Assuming: Medium Hybrid 5 Medium Blaster Spec 5 Gunnery 5 Rapid Fire 5 Surgical Strike 5 Drone Interfacing 5 Heavy Drones 5 Drone Spec 5 Battlecruiser 5 I.E. max skills: All numbers at each stage are rounded from a non truncated number that continues on[so some discrepencies might be seen] in the calculations. Neutron Blaster II 4.2dmg/5.25 rof 0.8 * 1.25 [med blasters] 1 * 1.15 [surg strike] 1.15 * 1.1 [med spec] 1.265 / 0.9 [Gunnery] 1.406 / 0.75 [Rapid Firing] 1.874 * 28 [ammo] 52.474 * 6 [Turrets] 314.84 * 1.23 [First Mag Stab] 387.26 * 1.2 [Second Mag Stab] 468.71 * 1.13 [Third Mag Stab] =525.12[506.33 reloading] + Ogre II 1.92 dmg/2 rof 0.96 * 24 [Ammo] 23.04 * 2 [Drone Interfacting] 46.08 * 1.25 [Heavy Drones] 57.6 * 1.1 [Drone Specialization] 63.36 * 1.5 [Ship bonus] 95.04 * 5 [Number of ships] =475.2 Total 475.2+525.12 = 1000.32 [981.53 when reloading] I dont think you will have the PG for that, tough an ION setup has similar "omg damage" potential, capping at 967 DPS. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:37:00 - [11] Originally by: Copine Callmeknau High dps ships like the brutix and harbinger will kill ya before you can lock them :p The tanking BC's will be able to tank your damage output for long enough to overpower your tank as well Please, the Myrmadon will completly out-gank the gankiest of harbingers. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dexter Rast Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.13 11:54:00 - [12] passive regen tanks on slow ships have no place in PvP, the only way a passive tanked ship becomes valid is when its coupled with speed to negate the real damage, for lower end NPC`ing passive tanks can be 4tw, but as far as doing passive setups and crunching the numbers which looks good on paper, sadly these ships just dont cut it when required to PvP -------------------------------------------
Calprimus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.13 12:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron IMO pvp tanks shouldn't be about regen, but about total absorption. Shield power relays in the lows leave you completely vulnerable to NOS, and even the most passive boats usually run some kind of active mod (scrambler, hardeners). If you cripple your cap with 3 shield power relays, you are never going to be able to tackle a battleship, as a few seconds of NOS will leave you capless. Drake 7 Launchers 1 Medium Energy Neutralizer 2 Large Shield Extenders 1 20km scrambler 1 EM Hardener 1 Invulnerability Field 1 10mn Microwarp Drive 4 PDS This works, and gives well over 14k in passive hardened shields. The PDS feed the Neutralizer and MWD, and give overall shield capacity, needed grid, and a reasonable level of regeneration. It won't passive tank as well as SPR versions, and it dosen't have a Ballistic, but it's a nice solo or small gang ship with a speed mod and decent dps. With a wingman, a battleship is no problem, and anything smaller (including T2 cruisers and frigs) is in deep ****. Question: with a 20Km scram the launchers....would you advice assault or normal? Thx
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.01.13 14:50:00 - [14] ôI always enjoy reading your posts Pottsey, however unless I'm mistaken (and fi I am, m apologies) the tank on that myrmidon is not that high.ö No your not mistaken. Some where along the lines I messed up either the screenshot is the wrong one or I muddle some notes up. Now to find out where I went wrong. Going to try a complete re work based on various comments. ôI dont think you will have the PG for that,ö Going to try PDS over relays so PG shouldnÆt be a problem. CPU could be. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Abyssal Angel Caldari Solar Wind Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.13 16:55:00 - [15] cool nice to know I'm not totally retarded (shut up fellow corpsemates). WE demand more passively tanked PVP setups.! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ta! If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard
Donmadefy	Posted - 2007.01.13 17:54:00 - [16] I did a theoretical setup on a Jaguar, and got a recharge rate of around 50hp/s I think, I haven't taken into account any resistances, nor does that setup include gang or implant bonuses. I think there was enough grid and cpu to put some modicum of autocannons on it. Tanking and some offense, regardless of cap.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.01.13 18:05:00 - [17] Drake 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Faint Warp Prohibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Extender I \ 13576 shield, 80.71/s, E/T/K/Ex=58/66/75/83 4491 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10 2948.5517348966923 cap, +17.18/s, -26.74/s 969.0 m/s Lots of speed, Nos and tackling gear! ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Kazire	Posted - 2007.01.13 19:23:00 - [18] Pottsey, I apologize i wont post my pvp set up here. I am prolly a rare breed. I solo pirate in what everyone else says is impossible to do, A passive tanked ship. Not only do i have success at it, but unless im am fighting 5+ or more ships I dont lose. Granted, i run into issues where i run out of cap and cant lock someone down (normally when facing at least a bs nos boat and friends) but its they that have to run when they are out of cap boosters, not me. In general though with my passive tanked set up (completely passive). I dont like to fight single targets, cuase they arent much a fight. I prefer gangs or fighting other 1-3 year vets in their pvp set ups. If you want to talk in-game, i will discuss my set up with you.
Thor Ba'aleron	Posted - 2007.01.14 09:18:00 - [19] Quote: Question: with a 20Km scram the launchers....would you advice assault or normal? Normal. The Drake does not get a range bonus and 10-12k range isn't enough. Heavies can hit from 80km, that's a huge bonus when flying in a gang. And to the guy with 2 Invuln II's and 3 rigs on his pvp ship? I guess you never lose... hard to justify 2-300m in fittings on a tech 1 pvp ship.
Jackal79	Posted - 2007.01.14 09:30:00 - [20] Originally by: Majin82 Drake 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher 'Arbalest' Heavy Missile Launcher Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Faint Warp Prohibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Rigs : Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ Core Defence Field Extender I \ 13576 shield, 80.71/s, E/T/K/Ex=58/66/75/83 4491 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10 2948.5517348966923 cap, +17.18/s, -26.74/s 969.0 m/s Lots of speed, Nos and tackling gear! That setup will cost you like 300 million - don't you think thats a bit extreme considering the cost of the stock ship?

Larkonis Trassler Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.14 10:32:00 - [21] Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 14/01/2007 10:30:27 Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 14/01/2007 10:30:18 Drake Gank: Highs 7x Heavy II Scourge Furies Mids: 20k, ABII, 2x Invuln 2 2x LSE II Lows: I-Stab, 3xBCS II Rigs: 3x Core Defence Field Extender 20k shields 350 Raw DPS Only dies to groups like this Linkage This was my undock and kill things setup. Energy neutralisers. They make me cry :(. Only 3 seconds off dock agro wearing off. EDIT: Also with regards to pimping out T1 ships... The Drake is dying out to be fitted well. I've killed so many drakes with sub par setups it makes me cry, it really does. If you're going to fight in a ship like this then you should go all in to get the most out of it. ------------ Crow Squad... An Audio and Visual Joygasm by Larkonis Trassler
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.15 08:59:00 - [22] Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron And to the guy with 2 Invuln II's and 3 rigs on his pvp ship? I guess you never lose... hard to justify 2-300m in fittings on a tech 1 pvp ship. My friend lost his 3rd Drake fitted as I said in my previous posts (And I lost T2 fitted Ishtar). Shows that my alliance/corp is bunch of hauler gankers scared of real PvP Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
Ice Conch	Posted - 2007.01.15 09:16:00 - [23] Originally by: Kuolematon Originally by: Thor Ba'aleron And to the guy with 2 Invuln II's and 3 rigs on his pvp ship? I guess you never lose... hard to justify 2-300m in fittings on a tech 1 pvp ship. My friend lost his 3rd Drake fitted as I said in my previous posts (And I lost T2 fitted Ishtar). Shows that my alliance/corp is bunch of hauler gankers scared of real PvP all it shows is that you dont know how to pick your fights... Samirol has slipped into a coma for the next 14 days and has to retire from pod piloting. Await the return of the hamster!
Kuolematon Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2007.01.15 10:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Ice Conch all it shows is that you dont know how to pick your fights... If thats you Samirol, why on earth you troll me? You should know better than people blob us and use bait because they cannot go against us with fair numbers. Playing Caldari-Online as a Amarr specced is PURE Hardcore (aka. stupid).
mmm cheese	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:14:00 - [25] Vulture Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment Prototype Cloaking Device I Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Gist B-Type Photon Scattering Field Invulnerability Field II Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I Local Power Plant Manager: Reaction Shield Power Relay I Power Diagnostic System II Rigs : Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I \ Core Defence Field Purger I \ 22759 shield, 166.95/s, E/T/K/Ex=83/89/84/78 4624 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/86/62/10 3937.4998211860657 cap, +8.57/s, -19.617/s 19.0 m/s 0.0 DPS How dos this look? I was contemplating dropping an additional EM rig and adding a second purger, but EM resistances would have been too low for my liking.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.15 11:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Kuolematon Originally by: Ice Conch all it shows is that you dont know how to pick your fights... If thats you Samirol, why on earth you troll me? You should know better than people blob us and use bait because they cannot go against us with fair numbers. If you spend 300 mil on a ship that a megathron with 50-70 mil in fitting can easily rip though dont you think thats just a waste of money... Some good loot though _________________________________________________ Breetime
Shadrin Gallente Girlfriend Thieves Inc	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:14:00 - [27] lol yeah you gotta be in total live with the ship to fit it like that ------------------------------------ Shadrin CEO, Girlfriend Thieves Inc. Recruiting information
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.15 18:44:00 - [28] Edited by: Sir Bart on 15/01/2007 18:42:48 Originally by: Kuolematon Drake. 7x HML II 1x NOS 1x SCRAM 2x INVUL II 3x LSE II 2x PDS II 1x Shield Relay (One that gives you shield regen at expence of cap regen) 1x DC II RIGS: 2x Shield regen, 1x Shield extender With skills it's uber resists (BC lvl5) and shield around 23k with 350sec regen. No other ship can be passively tanked in PvP than drake. Very impressive tank, I estimated it at around 530 dps, enough to tank a domi's 5 heavy drones forever.... nice ship if you are fighting domi's. Just as long as he doesn't have guns instead of nos in the highs... b/c you'd die. -Bart Edit: actually domi's drones do about 570 dps iirc... and his nos would turn off your t2 hardeners in the first 30 seconds of the fight.... nm, you'd die no matter what.
Kazire	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:59:00 - [29] some of you dont apparently understand what a passive shield tank is. I see too many active mods on these set ups.
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:17:00 - [30] Originally by: Kazire some of you dont apparently understand what a passive shield tank is. I see too many active mods on these set ups. It doesn't have to be 100% passive, specially not if you have a nos or two, that's more than enough to run your hardeners if you time it right, even if nossed yourself. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations



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