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ASCN... Where are they now?

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Brunswick2 eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:25:00 - [91] Originally by: DB Preacher Originally by: Fitz Chivalry Originally by: DB Preacher I am sure that some of the ASCN corps will continue to cause us hassle in future and I sincerely hope that they do because it's fun to fight peeps in eve and that we continue to do this in a manner that promotes both sides. I can confirm that we will be continuing to hassle you and your tenants for the forseeable future unless or until we regain control of our station in RIT Its nice to have a dream <3 dbp <3 R I S E
Helen STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:19:00 - [92] Originally by: Christopher Multsanti Edited by: Christopher Multsanti on 16/01/2007 19:14:43 Originally by: Helen Edited by: Helen on 16/01/2007 19:08:08 Originally by: DB Preacher Relate that to the conversations we are having with peeps like STK, Species, CLS etc and the corporations we are now working with inside Feth and you will find a very different tone from both sides. Working with eh? You wish you snuggle bunny DB only the cool kids get my love. Only offer we got was a some crummy "can we buy your pos" deal, much as we would love to normally oblige we figured we could survive on the isk we normally make and sit on any assets we might still have in Feyth. Still AZN looks like a cold and desolate place these days much like old Yulai in empire. Why are you posting in italics you fool!!!!! CAPS ARE SO MUCH COOLER. Edit: wow thats weird, it even attacked my sig. Its annoying this italics. Must be a new forum 'feature'.
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:19:00 - [93] Edited by: Temerlyn on 16/01/2007 23:17:10 One of our greatest failings was we got burned by Xetic and when we we're in ASCN we we're very secular in our nature. We have our way of doing things and its very unique. During xetic we we're the most vocal corp against any of the dumb ideas that Xetic brought up. Towards the end alot of this was against CLS at the time. When ascn formed CLS did not want us in it as we we're seen as **** talkers then and trouble makers. It was our great relationship with DDC that they insisted we be part of ascn. Looking at it now ASCN was founded on bad principles within eve. Lack of expansionistic conflict made us become soft and fat and in effect became what we hated except without 5 hour long team speak discussions. Not that anything we did was wrong that we did do, we just needed to expand on it and make ASCN more combat orientated. In becoming ASCN we took a step back as we decided we wanted to just focus on us and needed some part of 0.0 space to prosper. In saying that had we been more pro active against HC we might of been kicked out more than listened to and that mentality subconsciously got stuck into the STK Leadership. Not to mention alot of us have Real lives, jobs, wives, husbands (like skully) that looking after a corp is hard enoug. trying to stear a juggernaught of an alliance takes more dedication than i want to give atm. For some unknown reason i started to thing we we're the second best corp within ASCN behind CLS. They had more numbers, thus generated more income from workers. When we joined ascn we had 70 odd tech 2 BPO's and they had 30, not to far in they raised it to over 100 while we stayed as we were. But after the war with BoB STK remained steadfast as we have weathered everything and anything this game can throw at a corp and marched through it. We have had 2 corp thefts in our past, we had a mass exodus of players and considered merging with other corps, been at the start of 3 alliances, been involved with some of the most distructive wars in eve. It is why i tend to believe STK is a premier EvE corp, easily enough one of the best (wont say the best as i know that isn't true). We wern't offered any terms for keeping our stations, not sure why but i tend to think its because boB knew we would say no. We have a unique position where we can say no as we have income sources to rival 95% of the corps in eve. Loosing two outposts is mainly a moral blow to most corps but frankly many people we're getting sick of the POS crap (CCP Hurry up and fix POS wars, they realy, realy, realy suck). We left the war with almost 100bil isk. We were selling battleships to the alliance at like 40mil for tier 1 and 80 mil for tier 2 and no one was buying them as they had already given up. We had so many BS's we spent the last few days doing a BS zerg just because we couldn't be assed to move them all. Our stations had enough low end mins to build Motherships and our capital yards had just as much (we got most of it out btw). STK is kinda sick of the restrictive nature alliances seem to impose on us so we are going solo for awhile. Time and energy will dictate where we end up. To those we now choose as enemies. BoB, we are not angry or anything stupid like that. To be the best you either join them or fight them to become better. Joining BoB seems like the easy and less fun path. So much more fun when your the under dog. AAA you just happen to be in the area. Corm and any slave corps. You still took the easy option and turned uber carebear. Fight for your right to own 0.0 space people, it becomes much more satisfying. To anyone else...Ahh we'll get to you in time our itinery is quite full, scones with the queen and all that... P.S. Part of our new warrior training is of course Forum warrior training :p and helen and i lead the charge.
Otto Torivus Species 5618	Posted - 2007.01.17 00:02:00 - [94] Originally by: Creon Originally by: Otto Torivus unofficial. We are getting ready to move to our new home. Our application to move into BoB space was rejected despite our generous offer to keep shooting the locals. Like jilted lovers we plan on stalking them for a short time and then finding some one new to throw ourselves at. Ta ta We never had an application for Bob space that was rejected, and we did not make any kind of offers to shoot locals? What we did have was an agreement to move out. With the rest of ASCN no where around it just didnÆt make sense to continue to fight, we were just 1 corp. So with our agreement to take all POSÆs down and leave, we received a positive standing for 72 hours which has ended many moons ago. Originally by: DB Preacher Edited by: DB Preacher on 16/01/2007 17:42:21 Relate that to the conversations we are having with peeps like STK, Species, CLS etc and the corporations we are now working with inside Feth and you will find a very different tone from both sides. cheers, dbp The only conversations we have had was the agreement to move out peacefully. Other than that there has been no conversations at all? We are not bitter toward anyone, its just a game and these things can be expected. Bob set out to do a job and they did it.... its that simple. As for Species, we have been listening to offers and have decided to join DDC and Axe with no major plans of conquest. Simply put, its time to re-group. Our standings will be Axe standings. Please set accordingly. I was being a smartass sorry it did not go over well. Four out of five Minmatar say the signature sucks. Film at eleven.
DarK STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 00:19:00 - [95] Hi2u Tem, how are the monologues going?
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.17 00:30:00 - [96] Originally by: Temerlyn P.S. Part of our new warrior training is of course Forum warrior training :p and helen and i lead the charge. Blindly charging into things does not work ingame, nor on the forums. Your post would have been above average, if it were not for your last comments. Personal feelings would have me remind you there is no intention here to defend CoRM. But by your own admittance, STK-S were focused inwards from the start. You just wanted some space to prosper in, and didn't want the responsibility of directing an alliance. Isn't it extremely hyprocritical to call out others for it; especially when they don't have the safety net of tech 2 bpo income? At least being in a one corp alliance, you are not misleading any allies on your true intentions. Which is primarily why STK-S does not come anywhere near the standards for BoB consideration. Not to dismiss your achievements, and sense of pride in the war; but STK-S had the capability to far more. CYVOK's departure was perhaps the best thing to happen for ASCN, but the time required to make a proper transition to new leadership was not. STK-S could have easily deployed enough POS to stonewall our forces for a month or more in siege operations and buy that time. Instead, you chose your interests above the well-being of all. Instead you boast that you've left the war with 100bil. What? You entertaining the thought of BoB membership is amusing at best, and insulting at worst. Claiming its the easy and less fun path; to such lunacy I have no comments. And once again you've charged straight into the wall of impregnable logic. If CoRM should fight for its right to own space (which requires POS wars and conquest), then you're suggesting CoRM do what STK-S refuses to. You're suggesting they play the game on our level, and therefore take the 'less fun' path. Why?... What you just displayed was the cancer that infected ASCN. Corporations competing with one another, instead of the enemy. This continues even after the demise of the alliance was written in stone, just so the corporations claiming moral highground can appear to be the lesser losers. Pardon me, Temerlyn, but the responsibility and blame for a failed alliance is only based on the number of corps in it. If ASCN were run as a democracy, that means STK-S owns one 25th of this. Since ASCN was dictated by a core group of three corporations(?) that held greater decision making power and authority over the rest (of which STK-S was part) - that makes your shame far greater than any one BoB Slave Corp« currently possesses.
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:44:00 - [97] Alright, Cold hard truth time. Speaking as someone that joined ASCN just a few weeks before the war and never was overly exposed to the ASCN HC moral blogs to any degree. ASCN, as a functional alliance, was dead before the war even started. It just didn't know it yet. If it wasn't BoB driving the stake through ASCN's heart it would've been AAA, D2'n'Pals or redswarm. The speed at wich ASCN came unglued after STEVE's death & CYVOK stepping down is a clear indicator of this. During the war all the ASCN corp made choices and now they all have to live with them now that the fighting is largely over. STK made its choices and is fully prepared to live with them. Before the war STK had little to no direction and was slowly dieing on the inside. Hell, thought I had made a massive screwup signing up with STK at first. Then you guys came along and lit a fire under our collective butts. The way events played out over the war ended up channeling us in some rather strange directions as many BoB members have noted. I personaly don't see myself going anywhere anytime soon. BoB in a strange way ended up doing STK a huge favor. Yes we lost our 0.0 outposts that where built on the corp's back isk wise. Let's face it, 0.0 space is merely a convenience that is nice to have. A healthy corp/alliance in this game can suckup losing it and keep right on chugging along. We'll get back up, dust ourselves off and keep haveing a ball with this game.
Helen STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:53:00 - [98] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal I speak of something I know nothing of Quote: Yeah its true STK is inward looking we didn't do sweet FA for ASCN.
travelingsales Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:09:00 - [99] Hello, just popping in to confirm that ArsC is in fact part of the new Curse Alliance, since there seemed to be some uncertainty about it above. Good luck to all the former ASCN corps in your new endeavors.
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:26:00 - [100] Ahh i havn't actually been quoted on at all till now...Sheds a tear First and foremost each person, corp entity that exists within eve plays for fun. Prior to the BoB war people we're not having fun as it became monotinous and the chances to have a go at pvp we're brushed aside. I try to run the corp to allow people to have fun. During the bob war we we're placing POS's as much as we could, 100 pos's dont help if you cant run the logistics of fueling them. With freighter runs taking in the ball park of 3-4 hours its time that people who have 2-3 hours at most dont want to spend doing not to mention there we're combat ops that we had to be part of. So the alternative is carriers. We did what we could but carriers cannot fuel 100 pos's. The 10 we had in AZn and 3 or so in erpos were burning people out trying to keep up with them. Not to mention the 5 more we deployed and got destroyed towards the start of the war. Everyone who could fight in STK did. Could of STK done more during the campaign is hard to predict. Despite the shown numbers in our corp description a massive percent are alts as we neede to put even cyno alts into the corp to use them properly in 0.0. Thus STK works on a very small yet elite group of people, our peek numbers maybe a group of 15 people if we were lucky (thus the recruiting). We were preparing to fund and fuel the fountain campaigne of the war to whom ever came to help us out of ascn. Sha karn we're assigned but never came then after that it was kinda to late. PVP and fighting is more fun, most of the pilots in STK do want blues to light up the over view. We in ascn were forbidden to post on the forums but as STK its a freedom of choice that i as a person cannot stop (The price of freedom). I tend to think my corp contains an abundance of intelligent people who on the most post quite well. In short we have learned alot. The most smartest people are smart because they beleieve they know nothing thus can continually learn and absorb information. We have thus absorbed information, are processing it and will choice an outcome and see what happens with that choice. Learn from that choice etc.

Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.17 02:52:00 - [101] You must think I'm ignorant if you believe I am suggesting STK-S run a hundred POS. However, your entire argument is negated nonetheless. One could have bought them and distributed to others which had the manpower but not the ISK. In fact, that would be the wisest thing even if you did have the manpower and logistics power to pull it off. One corp running that many critical POS; a single well placed spy could have the power to topple your efforts. Really though, I don't care what your decisions were or how you stand by them. STK-S were of little significance in the war. If you use this learning experience into changing that, then all the power to you. I am more or less irked by your, and everyone elses attempts to look good at the expense of others by dispensing pointless bits of advice. It might be acceptable if you were speaking from a position of knowledge or experience, which you are not. All you have is a corp which didn't come within a hair's width of bankruptcy by their own volition, owning a renewable source of income, and telling people who lost everything how they should play their game long after your responsibility for concern to them was absolved - which you never wholeheartedly embraced as a corporation to begin with. As you can see, I am trying to be reasonable in my posts. But if I were ever in the position where your insightful advice were directed at me, it would only be encouragment to stragle the life out of your corporation instead.
Lord Draco Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.17 03:06:00 - [102] I'm hoping STK reunites with Xirtam.
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 03:55:00 - [103] First and foremost i am bored at work :P so i am enjoying this little bit of Rhetoric. Again i must emphasise that its people more than anything else that matter. Buying and shipping 100 POS's and fuel to boot just cannot be done. So your suggestion is then to give the corps isk to do it. A we are not entirly sure they would spend the isk on POS's especially considering the spies some corps we're riddled with. How about the fact we started up exsclusive capital ship production for the alliance at cost price almost 1 year prior to the bob war meaning we never saw the 20 billion invested in BPO's come back. How about the man hours of about only 3 people who fueled the capital ship mineral supply who virtually spent their entire ontime game getting mins to build these ships... Then not see 70% of them even show their face during the campaign. Albiet some would be in active accounts or bad time zones (like me). Alot of the isk we had prior to the war and most of our income went into fueling the war. but we treat STK more like a business and made sure we had more than enough to keep us not only going but to prosper. Now i am not saying what other slave corps have done is wrong especially if the player base attached to the corp pushed for it. But had we No isk or income i still wouldn't send my corp into being a slave, my worst case scenario is disbanding instead of being a slave. It is for thaat reason i see slavedom as a greater sin in the eve universe. This is a personal thing as much as an honor thing and blurring them can be dangerous but in the long run it gives us more people to shoot at and vary our targets.
Darth Zion Minmatar Deltaflux Industries	Posted - 2007.01.17 05:08:00 - [104] Originally by: Temerlyn First and foremost i am bored at work :P so i am enjoying this little bit of Rhetoric. Again i must emphasise that its people more than anything else that matter. Buying and shipping 100 POS's and fuel to boot just cannot be done. So your suggestion is then to give the corps isk to do it. A we are not entirly sure they would spend the isk on POS's especially considering the spies some corps we're riddled with. How about the fact we started up exsclusive capital ship production for the alliance at cost price almost 1 year prior to the bob war meaning we never saw the 20 billion invested in BPO's come back. How about the man hours of about only 3 people who fueled the capital ship mineral supply who virtually spent their entire ontime game getting mins to build these ships... Then not see 70% of them even show their face during the campaign. Albiet some would be in active accounts or bad time zones (like me). Alot of the isk we had prior to the war and most of our income went into fueling the war. but we treat STK more like a business and made sure we had more than enough to keep us not only going but to prosper. Now i am not saying what other slave corps have done is wrong especially if the player base attached to the corp pushed for it. But had we No isk or income i still wouldn't send my corp into being a slave, my worst case scenario is disbanding instead of being a slave. It is for thaat reason i see slavedom as a greater sin in the eve universe. This is a personal thing as much as an honor thing and blurring them can be dangerous but in the long run it gives us more people to shoot at and vary our targets. You yourself stated that your corp dared not voice yourselves in ASCN like you did in Xetic against CLS for fear of being kicked. It's funny you would say you would rather disband than being 'slave' corp yet not 'speaking up' in your own alliance was okay...
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 05:53:00 - [105] It was never intentional mind you, more of a sub conscious thing. Its a look at the past more than anything. We didnt activly state we wouldn't involve ourselves with HC as we saw no need and thought everything was great now that we were ASCN. Looking back at it now it seems that we subconsciously made that decision. Its a reflective, had we been more involved in HC would we have made a difference, or would we join the crowd and become part of the blame. As ASCn moved on CLS and STK became close friends and the anamosity in xetic disapeared and mutual respect evolved on both sides. thus i guess we got complacent as we also assumed everything was fine and in effect left everything up to HC who barely affected us at all. There was a period of time were STK had some troubles and that came about by being carebear for to long, players started to get bored and not care. The rest of the alliance wondered what we were doing. The person in charge of capital ship production left us and the person who took over followed not long after and the third person has had rl issues to continue on that path on a regular basis despite the fact we had already built the alliance 120+ capital ships by this stage (we did include freighters in this but they would of made up about 30 of the builds). STK is full of people with Real lives outside STK and we often chat about them. Not saying others dont either and thus id expect most people to have more than EvE as part of their life. As a result cannot commit more than a few hours a night to this game that can take 3-4 hours just to do a freighter run. Having 100bil isk doesn't mean we had an answer. throwing isk at a problem will not make it go away or fix itself. It needs people who can use it properly. Had we seen something like that in ASCn during the last days we would of backed them but we didn't. Right at the end there was, we believe, a glimer of some one with a clue but it was two late and all our hands had already been played. We left with the chips we had. Not putting anything against Cyvok but the non agressiveness of ASCn is one of the bigger contributing factors of its fall. Like exercise if you dont do it enough you become a MMOG player
Sirius A Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.17 06:47:00 - [106] Edited by: Sirius A on 17/01/2007 06:45:47 War can be like a relationship gone bad. Nevertheless, there comes a point when you just have to move on. That time is now. War is hell...carry on soldier. "I am expendable"
TrippyX Caldari The Syndicate Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.17 09:37:00 - [107] Yea TSYND joined IAC.. we're having a good time.. We still lub you guys in eXceed :).. you should come visit us sometime.. ____________________ I ♥ [TSYND]
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:11:00 - [108] Originally by: TrippyX Yea TSYND joined IAC.. we're having a good time.. We still lub you guys in eXceed :).. you should come visit us sometime.. Sold out for a few kegs of rum and whisky... We might be around, to share a few 'rounds'
Miss Robinson eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:40:00 - [109] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: TrippyX Yea TSYND joined IAC.. we're having a good time.. We still lub you guys in eXceed :).. you should come visit us sometime.. Sold out for a few kegs of rum and whisky... We might be around, to share a few 'rounds' And we would love to be served some 'Curse' for dinner..
Exus Die Trying	Posted - 2007.01.17 13:02:00 - [110] 2 things : - BoB spies into ACSN smell it was the good period to attack and they did it. they did it well, but ASCN could have fall to a far less powerfull alliance. BoB wanted to be the first getting into it, to get the bonus consideration they dont really need, heh. First real use of titans and scary cap fleet. that was epic. but still a easy task for BoB. Fighting someone that dont give up easy (and have a strong leadership) is different ofc. - next target ?

Virtuozzo eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.17 13:38:00 - [111] ASCN was an organisation born out of trauma, an organisation structured by principle and a rigid command mechanism with a focus on projects with a timeline stretching all the way to Kali 3 features and beyond. Looking back, the above is the very reason the organisation type failed. It never accounted for redundancy, and it never accounted for human nature. On top of that, and quite possibly one of the motivating factors for target selection, ASCN as an organisation type was never designed for war. It was in essence designed for greatness, for the concept of empire building through hard labour by a lot of people. I know, sounds cheeky. But it is as it is. Effectively that group of people went from one structural extreme to the other, with a nack for a type of empire building which primarily focused on the building. ASCN was never a war alliance, even a combat alliance. To keep it simple the direct traits of ASCN were isolationism, a phenomenon which could have been observed in the minimal events where ASCN worked together with others to achieve goals. EC- is one such example, so is the one joint op with LV for recapturing a station at the time (the details evade me atm, I am blond). That isolationism did have two direct consequences however: first of all the community got out of touch with the rest of EVE, secondly it bled itself dry of experienced adrenaline monkeys with a nack for pvp due to, well, boredom. The challenge to compensate for that by focusing on capital ship production is not one to be taken on by merely production. An isolationistic mindset limits the options available in that respect. ASCN as all large organisations suffered from being a hugely inflated condom, we've all seen the comments of "omg4kpeople" .. quite frankly ASCN was probably the most schizofrenic alliance EVE has ever seen. I believe at one point polls on the Civis and various corporation forums came to about 3.9 accounts per capita. Combine that with all large organisations in EVE having an abundance of alts from the rest of EVE in it for raping roids and the numbers become diffuse. ASCN in a way did exactly what it set out to do, only to be stopped mostly by itself in the process. The war with BOB closed the chapter, but the book had ended long before they came in. That does not discount the folks who continued to share either the dream and/or the community, but as an organisation ASCN has ceased being both effective and fit for continuity half a year before the early signs of the war. Life in deep space is about evolution, focus and energy. ASCN lost its focus, was unable to evolve as an organisation and was drained of its energy by spending it all too hard and too fast on projects which were grand, but in the end without a difference for the task of standing up to life in deep space. I agree that if Kali 3 hadn't been Kali 3 and the relevant feature sets had arrived as expected and planned for the course of the war would have been different, be that as it may, EVE has never had a history of everything being on time and in perfect order :P It is an evolving game, a game made by humans. So, "what if" and "if only", but when push comes to shove the war would have been much more interesting, longer, tedious, but the end result would have been the same. All life ends one time or another. On a personal note, I am getting mildly sick of the continuing abundance of questions and convo's and evemails of people trying to make something like a new "xeticmineralsomgnowascn" case. I have zero interest in such a case. Nobody does as there is no such case. For those wondering about the ashes, there are none really. The spirit and friendships survived this endeavour, as such there are no ashes. The hearts and minds and souls of those who stood up are still alive, elsewhere, but having fun. As for the future, we all need some anti stress therapy and venting steam. After that, we will all make our minds up. This is EVE. Our destiny is each our own. Virtuozzo RECRUITMENT TEASERS. Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!"
vipeer Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.17 14:20:00 - [112] To reply the OP: We're back in empire sucking the veldspar fields dry ;) As far as the BoBo war goes: Who wants to login and fight an enemy that everytime you engage and the GM is not present in local the node crashes... I was in TCAG at the height of hostilities and in my 30 minutes there my screen didn't load once. In the end i somehow managed to warp away from the gate into a belt where NPC's dispatched me while my screen would not update and all and after about a week i got my ship reimbursed but my wish to go into that laghole was gooooooone. Many have quit EVE because CCP will not do anything we asked to do. All the uber bad pvpers we had (at least Bobo have been trying to convince the EVE community ASCN has 4627 chars with Veldspar reprocessing and Exhumer skills trained to lvl 6 and half) have cleverly accepted offers extended by BoBo, Outbreak and other and will work from inside with the motto: "Infiltrate and assasinate" Ascendancy died the day our glorious leaders were told to: "**** off" As i said: Now we're mining veldspar to take advantage of high prices of tritanium lately ;) Yeah right... Chaining BoBo in south Feyth:
Lucre STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 14:27:00 - [113] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal You entertaining the thought of BoB membership is amusing at best, and insulting at worst. Claiming its the easy and less fun path; to such lunacy I have no comments. Methinks when Tem said "join BoB" what he meant was "join up with BoB" in the same way CORM, AWE and D-R have. Which would, had the offer been there and compared to going it alone without a "home" indeed have been "the easy way". Our egos aren't large enough - well, with maybe a couple of exceptions - to think we're even remotely near good enough in combat yet to be a BoB member. Originally by: Arenis Xemdal STK-S could have easily deployed enough POS to stonewall our forces for a month or more in siege operations and buy that time. /me tries to imagine what DBP, Avon and the rest would have said of us had we kept POS-spamming AZN as you suggest!! LoL I think this is a "flamed if we did, flamed if we didn't" situation! And I seriously don't think it would have helped. So those flames we would have deserved.
Garia666 Amarr adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.17 14:51:00 - [114] Originally by: Creon Species is doing well and currently listening to offers. If anyone has an interest in Species 5618, contact Creon. All offers will be considered. I already offerd to vouche for you guys for LV .. however you guy`s either didn`t read it or are not intrestted.. ->My Vids<- CCP= More skilz more moneh!
Fortior STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:23:00 - [115] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal STK-S could have easily deployed enough POS to stonewall our forces for a month or more in siege operations and buy that time. /me tries to imagine what DBP, Avon and the rest would have said of us had we kept POS-spamming AZN as you suggest!! LoL I think this is a "flamed if we did, flamed if we didn't" situation! And I seriously don't think it would have helped. So those flames we would have deserved. A superflous post perhaps, but I still feel like posting. So let's say we pour 20 or so bil into buying towers and spamming AZN. What would that have gained us really? By the time the fight for AZN was on and CYVOK had gone, much of the spirit left in ASCN was broken. The towers would have been picked off one by one by the BoB capitals and there would have been nothing we could have done about it. We might have killed a dread if we were lucky, but at what cost? Spamming towers would have bought us time most likely. But time to do what? What would it have gained us, since noone was around to prepare a counterattack? From my perspective we would have thrown money into a hole that could not benefit the alliance as a whole, but only corps as individual entities doing their own thing. The benefits of spamming elude me, while the cost is quite tangible.
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.17 15:45:00 - [116] hmm, perhaps if those POS had been used early and efficiently it could have made a difference. I'm not convinced it would have been anything more than a big speed bump though. There were three key events in this war that were instrumental to us. 1. The failure to setup the TPAR poses properly. If this had been done properly, I believe it would have resulted in a much longer war than eventually occured. 2. When Blockoindi's dreadnought tanked 100+ fighters and an ASCN fleet while we killed a pos in GQ2S. That exact moment was the crunch of ASCN losing PS. Before, ASCN had been using fighters to good effect causing us to go slightly on the defensive within the system and try and wipe out as many fighters as possible but while taking losses all the time. When we engaged with the dreadnoughts, if blocko had died, I believe it would have seen a possible resurgency in ASCN fighting but instead by the end of the week we had complete control of GQ2S and within 2 weeks... PS. ASCN simply pulled out completely. Next one is a bit more difficult to decide upon but I think I will go for: 3. ASCN not destroying the AZN pos within a week of it going down. I said at the time that if ASCN did not destroy our pos in a week then I couldn't see anything but us winning the war. The reasons for that are simple. Firstly, this was ASCN's home. If they couldn't defend there, or get the numbers to deal with us there, everywhere else would fall. Secondly, in war victories are everything. If ASCN had managed to destroy our POS inside ASCN regardless of the costs, it would have pushed us back out of AZN momentarily and would probably have afforded ASCN some time to regroup. Conclusions The POS wars were extremely important this time round. There were things that both sides could and should have done differently but I still feel that they would have only delayed the end result and perhaps led us to potentially lose a dreadnought or two. Hindsight is a wonderful gift, use it and benefit from it. Don't let yourselves be blinded by bitterness and stunted by decisions other corps have made to benefit themselves now they are free from alliance ties. dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
Helen STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:15:00 - [117] Originally by: Lucre Our egos aren't large enough - well, with maybe a couple of exceptions - to think we're even remotely near good enough in combat yet to be a BoB member. What you trying to say Lucre? Also good post by Virtuozzo, the war was over before it had ever really began. Too much expansion and corp recruitment without anything to bind us as an alliance, there was hope the BoB war would of resulted in the same mindset back in the G war but well.... Some interesting new tactics came from that war lets see where this all leads next.
Dr CapitalShip Caldari Out Siders Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:25:00 - [118] Originally by: vipeer As far as the BoBo war goes: Who wants to login and fight an enemy that everytime you engage and the GM is not present in local the node crashes... I was in TCAG at the height of hostilities and in my 30 minutes there my screen didn't load once. In the end i somehow managed to warp away from the gate into a belt where NPC's dispatched me while my screen would not update and all and after about a week i got my ship reimbursed but my wish to go into that laghole was gooooooone. Did the French blame God about rain in The Battle of Agincourt? Even if it was lag free, the same result would have happened, abit it would have taken a bit longer, and profiteers charging extortionate rates to alliance mates, would have made less isk. Lag was the smallest part of the reason why ASCN lost.
Azrael Bierce Cult of Lemen	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:26:00 - [119] Originally by: DB Preacher 3. ASCN not destroying the AZN pos within a week of it going down. I said at the time that if ASCN did not destroy our pos in a week then I couldn't see anything but us winning the war. Not even sure I'd mention the AZN pos, you guys were at least defending that one. I'd go all the way back to the first GQ2 POS. We "held" TPAR, but couldn't bring anything to bear to kill one poorly armed and poorly defended large tower in our own system where we had a distinct capital advantage given that you have to take a long route to get cap ships between PB and PS. Tell me, did ASCN destroy even a single BoB POS during the war? Did that anchored and fueled but otherwise unfilled/unarmed minmatar small pos in 0oy ever get killed? I can only think of a couple that even went into reinforced.
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.17 16:27:00 - [120] Originally by: DB Preacher Don't let yourselves be blinded by bitterness and stunted by decisions other corps have made to benefit themselves now they are free from alliance ties. dbp It's not really my place to judge the decisions of the other ex-ascn corps, but I'm not going to pay you isk to live in what used to be our space so you can take that isk and use it to go make someone else homeless.



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