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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Evasive Shadow Assassin
Amarr Militia Space Marines.
11
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Posted - 2015.12.09 14:10:27 -
[31] - Quote
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:So the background nebulas look way more pix elated than before the update... is there a setting that happened of was this to be expected. I don't care for the new look..
Get a better PC |
Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
40
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Posted - 2015.12.09 14:54:43 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: Regarding camera field of view, we are looking into whether any changes to our camera system might have unintentionally affected the existing camera's field of view. Nothing to report on this front yet. We did not intentionally change this parameter.
Previously to this patch, the star fields were added on top of the background nebulae. Now, nebulae occlude the star fields behind them to varying degrees. This means that you're able to get a better look at compression artifacts, which have always been present in our nebula textures. We're looking into our options for improving compression for these textures to reduce the artifacts you've pointed out in your screen shots.
Finally, I'm working with one of our art directors, CCP Nag, on optimizing our background starfield to reduce artifacts when zoomed in and sharpen the visual impression of the stars. This work is looking promising and would be a simple change, but as with the nebulae, it requires balancing quality against compression so that we don't kill your video card or deliver something with artifacts that feel worse than what's in game now.
There's no doubt that our new nebula setup has brought certain artifacts and imperfections in our assets to the forefront, but the technological groundwork is sound and we're doing what we can to deliver a higher-quality look for the sky background that addresses the issues you've raised here.
Thank you! Glad to hear CCP is aware of this and working on it! Also thank you for responding! |
Daemun Khanid
Black Dragon CGLM
211
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Posted - 2015.12.09 14:57:35 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Solecist Project wrote:And sorry about me ranting. Minmatar space has been ugly for years now and the redish brown/black contrasts make it the most ugly space to live in... :( Most techniques for image compression sacrifice quality in reds and blues to achieve a better overall look for typical real-world scenes. Unfortunately, this isn't very kind to very red images like our Minmatar nebula backgrounds. I'll make sure that we carefully take a look at the impact on Minmatar nebulae as we discuss texture compression going forward.
Very nice to hear some response as we never really got any in the camera thread. If you're still around, is there any info on the other issues that I mentioned? Particularly centering the camera direction on objects selected on overview and the way the camera zooms in on the starfield? (test server features) All the background looks fine if tactical view is enabled, but as soon as you go into orbit cam the backgrounds explode into pixel poop. From a strictly optical property and physics pov, objects light years away shouldn't even be remotely effected visually by zooming in on a ship 1km away. Please tell me at least that this is not an intended or unavoidable effect because it was obviously taken into consideration with the old system.
(not even going into all the other issues like ships disapearing, tactical overlay going awol, wild camera jittering even when sitting still, I just docked on test server and found myself somewhere in the floor of the station...new cameras are soooo broken and seem to be breaking everything they touch as well.)
Daemun of Khanid
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Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
198
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Posted - 2015.12.09 14:59:21 -
[34] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:That's interesting, they look better to me, must be a setting, not sure which one. Possibly a video card driver issue? This is completely invalid to say, because you don't even know which nebulae you are comparing. Look at this. Minmatar. http://imgur.com/a/Pt8Jw Toony colours. Lots of colour banding. Compression artefacts. I am so sick, tired and angry of looking at them ... ... seeing how completely broken they are for YEARS now ... ... I feel like causing a shitstorm over this.
You should give EVE a little break. Ranting about those kind of details is ... mad. Seriously! |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
26766
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Posted - 2015.12.09 15:04:18 -
[35] - Quote
I am actually back from a months long break.
These aren't little details, though, it's horrible to look at. I do a lot of gfx coding and image manipulation, so go figure. :P
For years have I been silent, but now I am fed up about how "m"y part of space is treated.
Like a red headed stepchild.
Literally !
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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Daemun Khanid
Black Dragon CGLM
211
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Posted - 2015.12.09 15:04:23 -
[36] - Quote
Presidente Gallente wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:That's interesting, they look better to me, must be a setting, not sure which one. Possibly a video card driver issue? This is completely invalid to say, because you don't even know which nebulae you are comparing. Look at this. Minmatar. http://imgur.com/a/Pt8Jw Toony colours. Lots of colour banding. Compression artefacts. I am so sick, tired and angry of looking at them ... ... seeing how completely broken they are for YEARS now ... ... I feel like causing a shitstorm over this. You should give EVE a little break. Ranting about those kind of details is ... mad. Seriously!
So if we just tossed out all eve's textures and switched to a monochrome polygon rendered game that's all cool with you? K, check. The changes are bad visually and if the rest of the camera changes make it live then it will get worse. Expecting visuals to improve not degrade over time is not unreasonable, particularly when some of the potential changes are going to be nausea inducing for some people. The things Solecist has pointed out are just the tip of the iceberg for whats in the pipeline so better to speak up now then when it all hits the fan.
Daemun of Khanid
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1770
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Posted - 2015.12.09 15:12:02 -
[37] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Please tell me at least that this is not an intended or unavoidable effect because it was obviously taken into consideration with the old system.
Long focal lengths (narrow fields of view) have always showed up severe artifacts in the sky backgrounds. The controls in the beta camera make it easier to wind up zoomed in, which makes these artifacts easier to see. Our efforts that I describe above should improve the results when you do this, but it's not a magic bullet. Zoom in enough on any raster image and it'll look bad.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Daemun Khanid
Black Dragon CGLM
211
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Posted - 2015.12.09 15:30:28 -
[38] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Daemun Khanid wrote:Please tell me at least that this is not an intended or unavoidable effect because it was obviously taken into consideration with the old system. Long focal lengths (narrow fields of view) have always showed up severe artifacts in the sky backgrounds. The controls in the beta camera make it easier to wind up zoomed in, which makes these artifacts easier to see. Our efforts that I describe above should improve the results when you do this, but it's not a magic bullet. Zoom in enough on any raster image and it'll look bad. There are a lot of issues with the beta camera and it will need a lot more polishing to go live. When it's released on TQ, I recommend carefully documenting and describing what you don't like about it in the appropriate comment thread, and filing bug reports using F12 > Report Bug and lots of screenshots when you run into problems.
Thank you. On a possibly related question, if/when hi-res textures are added will those include hi-res backgrounds or just object textures?
Daemun of Khanid
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Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
10444
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Posted - 2015.12.09 16:05:40 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: As I indicated in my comments, we are looking at alternatives for delivering higher-quality nebulae. Some of these alternatives are promising, but they all involve delivering more data to the client and using more texture RAM on the video card than what we're doing currently. (This means that we may have to limit our choices so that we don't adversely impact game performance.)
You dont adversely impact game performance when you have option to have high definition nebulas in your game. Just make it optional, just like you have low and high settings for antialiasing.
Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
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Ginnie
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
24
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Posted - 2015.12.09 17:07:21 -
[40] - Quote
Haha love the comment about Minmatar space...I imagine the red/brown looks ugly. I really don't understand why they opposed to be slaves, the Amarr moved them to a much more civilized and beautiful part of the galaxy...the Amarr gave them a purpose and a life instead of fighting among their little insignificant tribes, but they had to go about being all ungrateful...
Personally, I like Amarr and Caldari space the gold and blue are elegant. The Gallente green reminds me of Borg space...
Also, side note, the new engines look it pretty neat!
All that we see or seem is but a dream within a dream. -Edgar Allan Poe
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2015.12.09 20:40:22 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: Regarding camera field of view, we are looking into whether any changes to our camera system might have unintentionally affected the existing camera's field of view. Nothing to report on this front yet. We did not intentionally change this parameter.
Previously to this patch, the star fields were added on top of the background nebulae. Now, nebulae occlude the star fields behind them to varying degrees. This means that you're able to get a better look at compression artifacts, which have always been present in our nebula textures. We're looking into our options for improving compression for these textures to reduce the artifacts you've pointed out in your screen shots.
Finally, I'm working with one of our art directors, CCP Nag, on optimizing our background starfield to reduce artifacts when zoomed in and sharpen the visual impression of the stars. This work is looking promising and would be a simple change, but as with the nebulae, it requires balancing quality against compression so that we don't kill your video card or deliver something with artifacts that feel worse than what's in game now.
There's no doubt that our new nebula setup has brought certain artifacts and imperfections in our assets to the forefront, but the technological groundwork is sound and we're doing what we can to deliver a higher-quality look for the sky background that addresses the issues you've raised here.
Very glad your looking to fix the blurry starfield / nebula problem.
I really dislike the nebula/starfield changes and was actually thinking of unsubbing over it.
Because the nebula/starfield is a big game immersion factor for me. Its surprising how small changes can have such a big impact on game enjoyment
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
249
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Posted - 2015.12.09 21:17:10 -
[42] - Quote
@ CCP Darwin
Please make sure you look at W Space too when your fixing the nebula/starfield. The banding and blurry stars is very noticable particlulary in C2s and C5/C6s.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Chainsaw Plankton
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2165
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Posted - 2015.12.10 00:02:24 -
[43] - Quote
welcome to jita!
http://i.imgur.com/8aTzRse.jpg http://i.imgur.com/fLgN09A.png
you can see the banding in the old image, however it was also covered by stars and overall looked nicer. Now it is just so obvious it almost hurts to look at. Still don't think there was an FoV change. Slight change in zoom on the station though, the problems of taking screenshots months apart :<
@ChainsawPlankto
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Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1000
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Posted - 2015.12.10 02:42:15 -
[44] - Quote
Like it more now just need up in quality to really shine speaking of that i hope that is what you guys do when you talk about stars them self they are too static some shimmering and brightness would be welcome.
combine that with low brightness setting and darkest space minmatar and i can imagine pretty close visuals to dark cold space we look every day in rl. |
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
456
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Posted - 2015.12.10 03:38:30 -
[45] - Quote
Once upon a time, space was black. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
696
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Posted - 2015.12.10 09:21:19 -
[46] - Quote
To be fairly honest, the main issue I have with it currently is the level of detail. Areas of "open" space, especially patches of space with both light and dark colors and shades look horribly texture like a really bad attempt at applying anti-aliasing (or, most Minecraft texture packs).
The patches of the starfield where there are seemingly hidden stars don't really bother me too much, given some real photos from various ground-based and space-based satellites have that as well, especially around nebulae. Actually makes sense when you think about it; Nebulae are basically just huge plumes of dust and various ionized gases, so some of that in the right concentrations can block starlight. The only thing I would change here would be to reduce how much of the skybox is being "hidden". Most systems I've been in (seeming Caldari is the worst in this fashion) a bit too many of the stars are playing Houdini.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2762
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Posted - 2015.12.10 10:10:15 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: Most techniques for image compression sacrifice quality in reds and blues to achieve a better overall look for typical real-world scenes. Unfortunately, this isn't very kind to very red images like our Minmatar nebula backgrounds. I'll make sure that we carefully take a look at the impact on Minmatar nebulae as we discuss texture compression going forward.
I'll happily take a small performance hit for high res nebula's and backgrounds, especially minmatar space. Minmatar space is often also very dark relative to the other area's of space for some reason as well which doesn't help.
The reason I'll happily take the small performance hit is because it won't scale with players on grid, it's a one off. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1782
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Posted - 2015.12.10 10:24:39 -
[48] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote: I'll happily take a small performance hit for high res nebula's and backgrounds, especially minmatar space. Minmatar space is often also very dark relative to the other area's of space for some reason as well which doesn't help.
Sometimes, and I'd say in this case, the performance question is less about a typical player taking a small fps hit and more about whether the game is playable at all on the minimum system specifications.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27000
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Posted - 2015.12.10 10:27:06 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote: I'll happily take a small performance hit for high res nebula's and backgrounds, especially minmatar space. Minmatar space is often also very dark relative to the other area's of space for some reason as well which doesn't help.
Sometimes, and I'd say in this case, the performance question is less about a typical player taking a small fps hit and more about whether the game is playable at all on the minimum system specifications. But isn't that exactly what the hires textures, combined with DoD, are about?
Those who can, can. Those who can't don't have to.
My notebook has 2 gigs of vram and the bandwith to make use of it ...
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2763
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Posted - 2015.12.10 10:29:56 -
[50] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote: Sometimes, and I'd say in this case, the performance question is less about a typical player taking a small fps hit and more about whether the game is playable at all on the minimum system specifications.
Ah, ok, that I understand to keep things looking good even for minimum specs. |
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Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
286
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Posted - 2015.12.10 12:52:17 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Darwin is a good dude...if he says he and his team are working on it rest assured that's exactly what's happening. Yes I agree some things look a little wonky and all but look how far Eve has come.
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Velarra
468
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Posted - 2015.12.10 16:41:07 -
[52] - Quote
An option to view Eve space without nebulae would be nice. Deep black, stars & celestials. |
Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27043
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Posted - 2015.12.10 16:45:34 -
[53] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:CCP Darwin is a good dude...if he says he and his team are working on it rest assured that's exactly what's happening. Yes I agree some things look a little wonky and all but look how far Eve has come.
I appreciate his effort, I hope he's not discouraged... They're all doing amazing work ... :/
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1789
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Posted - 2015.12.10 18:04:51 -
[54] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote: I appreciate his effort, I hope he's not discouraged... They're all doing amazing work ... :/
Not discouraged at all, and thank you for the feedback on these nebula and star field changes.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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Solecist Project
The Scope Gallente Federation
27076
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Posted - 2015.12.10 18:18:15 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Solecist Project wrote: I appreciate his effort, I hope he's not discouraged... They're all doing amazing work ... :/
Not discouraged at all, and thank you for the feedback on these nebula and star field changes. :D
btw, the issue is less of an issue if I turn down the brightness to around ... 1/10th. *cough* ^_^
I identify as Sol-kin and I oppose all WiSgender because the white priviledged spacists just want to oppress me with their Avatariarchy. Once the carebears are eradicated, I will stand before them, screaming...
THE GAME ! (:
You lost... :)
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Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2015.12.10 19:56:44 -
[56] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Solecist Project wrote: I appreciate his effort, I hope he's not discouraged... They're all doing amazing work ... :/
Not discouraged at all, and thank you for the feedback on these nebula and star field changes.
Indeed, CCP thank you! The new visuals are really nice, engine effects, new ship, etc. The sensible players know that any update can have consequences that are uncontrollable or unintended. You guys do great, thank you! |
Velarra
470
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Posted - 2015.12.10 19:57:34 -
[57] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:Solecist Project wrote: I appreciate his effort, I hope he's not discouraged... They're all doing amazing work ... :/
Not discouraged at all, and thank you for the feedback on these nebula and star field changes.
Good :) Equally, please note the request for an eve without nebulae isn't intended as a negative slight toward the current artistic efforts your team have been investing time in. As much as an interest in a very pure black space + stars/celestial objects environmental feel in Eve. Sometimes less eye candy, is really more. The pitch black of space, can be its own intoxicating experience as much as it can be with the nebulae. |
Seraph Essael
eXceed Inc.
1151
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Posted - 2015.12.10 20:14:48 -
[58] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:That's interesting, they look better to me, must be a setting, not sure which one. Possibly a video card driver issue? This is completely invalid to say, because you don't even know which nebulae you are comparing. Look at this. Minmatar. http://imgur.com/a/Pt8Jw Toony colours. Lots of colour banding. Compression artefacts. I am so sick, tired and angry of looking at them ... ... seeing how completely broken they are for YEARS now ... ... I feel like causing a shitstorm over this. What, no dickbutt?
Also OP, mine look pretty still
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
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Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
458
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Posted - 2015.12.10 22:46:25 -
[59] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:CCP Darwin wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote: I'll happily take a small performance hit for high res nebula's and backgrounds, especially minmatar space. Minmatar space is often also very dark relative to the other area's of space for some reason as well which doesn't help.
Sometimes, and I'd say in this case, the performance question is less about a typical player taking a small fps hit and more about whether the game is playable at all on the minimum system specifications. But isn't that exactly what the hires textures, combined with DoD, are about? Those who can, can. Those who can't don't have to. My notebook has 2 gigs of vram and the bandwith to make use of it ...
High res textures?
Oh. You mean the ones that are never coming. |
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CCP Darwin
C C P C C P Alliance
1796
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Posted - 2015.12.10 23:45:06 -
[60] - Quote
Kuronaga wrote:High res textures?
Oh. You mean the ones that are never coming. Here's the update that I posted on the thread on that topic back in September:
CCP Darwin wrote:In this instance, it's because we got into doing it, then, looking at the images side-by-side, realized it didn't add much. All of us were surprised at how little a difference it made.
If we make this happen, it's going to be to check a box, not because it adds much to the look of the game. Never is a long time, but as long as we can find ways to improve the look of the game that we feel provide better value for the time, we'll be doing those things instead.
CCP Darwin GÇó Senior Technical Artist, EVE Online GÇó @mark_wilkins
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