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What the Privateer Alliance does is not an exploit

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Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:41:00 - [151] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Sorted Originally by: El'Niaga As I stated we have no idea how he phrased his petition because he never posted it, therefore we have no idea what the GM said was not an exploit. No. They are not. Even if corp were joining and leaving it is not a vilotaion. You need to petition it yourself. Get a direct answer and then STFU. Petition it, petiton it all. You certainly wont listen to me - ask a GM if its going to bother you that much. Then get some weapons for your ship. ok, so you say the corps hopping in and out of PA dureing war decs, to be safe in empire while making isk, can rejoin while the war is on, and it is not an exploit...just show me where a dev says it is 'ok' to evade the war dec consequences. If a corp is doing the same thing as a player can in a corp (corp hopping), to evade consequenses of a war, then how is it NOT an exploit of the intended mechanic of the alliance (alliance hopping)? 1 player doing it is an exploit... 100 as a corp doing it, is intended? sorry, but it dosn't take a 'special' person to know that is spin-doctor craptastic logic. You read my post. Read it again. Corps ARE NOT dropping for days at a time. They do join and leave for weeks at a time -for their own reasons which I am not privvy too - nor do I care about. If your in doubt petition it. It has been answered before; it has been petitioned already and commented on. Do your own damned research. Do you not think with 50 active wars someone else who wants to "get their own back" on those "invunerable" corps hasnt already asked? If they wanted revenage they could dec them - if they then disbanded the corp and recreated THAT would be an exploit. You wont belive what I say - ask a GM or Devs then SFTU.
ChrisFish Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 18:42:00 - [152] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: ChrisFish Originally by: Adunh Slavy War should be for economic or political gain, not just to PVP. War dec against other players, "just to pvp" is lame. If they, PA, wants PVP, they should declare on one of the PVP alliances or corps, there are plenty out there, someone that wants PVP as well, not some defenseless miner corp that has little or no chance. War-decing the defenseless is grief play IMO. You have shown in that one post that you have no idea what you are talking about regarding the war list of the PA. You are just repeating garbage you 'heard from someone' or 'read on the forums, so it must be true'. Create an alt, join the Privateers and see for yourself. You might stay. Did any small corp get war-dec by PA, yes or no? I'll have to look tonight to see. I was reading your statement to be the old 'You won't wardec a corp that fights back or is a real PvP corp' line. That the part that is completely not true. All of them. I lost an arbitrator last night to a CVA gate camp in Tash. Last time I checked, they know how to PvP. We wardec big PvP alliances, and we wardec Diakoku Trade Syndicate (sp?). Are you suggesting that PA never wardec anyone except PvP corps? A certain list? Smells like consensual PvP to me. I interpreted your post to mean we only wardec small mining corps. That is completely not true and well documented. If I misunderstood, then I apologize.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:26:00 - [153] I think I should also interject that they have most certainly not restricted themselves to war decing non-pvp corps. MM was war dec'd not to long ago and had a heck of a good time engaging these folks. One saving grace seems to be that the war dec's do not last overly long, so if a smaller corp or alliance gets war dec'd they (hopefully) will not have to worry about being paralyzed by it for an extended period of time. If they maintain a policy of "sharing the love" so to speak, I don't see it doing much if any harm to the balance of EVE as a whole.
Nathaniel Hull Caldari Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:50:00 - [154] Edited by: Nathaniel Hull on 17/01/2007 19:47:45 On the issue of leaving an alliance or corp during war to carebear, most smart alliances and big corps have out of alliance/corp production and holding entities. Sometimes these entities are disguised sometimes they are not and simply labled as an RnD division. So frankly it is ideal for a large alliance to allow some of their players isk making/production breaks during periods of extended war. You cant stop it aside finding those corps and dec'ing them too, but new ones will be made and you will be back to square one.
Emennt Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:07:00 - [155] Originally by: Adunh Slavy Did any small corp get war-dec by PA, yes or no? Yes Q.S.
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:53:00 - [156] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: El'Niaga You couldn't maintain so many wars otherwise. As i have posted a few times now, and you have chosen to ignore, the Privateers Alliance can easily afford it war decs via a combination of third party payments for war decs, voluntary donations, and each corp paying for one war. Also we are wardecced ourselves - this obvioulsy cost no money. We have 20 odd corps in the alliance. They have to pay for one war each. Just say theres ten pilots in corp and they have to pay 50 million a week to dec the war (alliance rates). This means each pilot has to pay 5 million each. For access to 40 wars. This is a TINY amount of money. It might be a lot of money for your alt who got ganked by us, but its about 40 mins mission work. Or Ten mins in 0.0 ratting. Last week voluntary loot donations equaled about 600 million. Thats 12 wars paid for off the bat. Cease your obsession with 'exploits' as It is clear we can afford to pay. The privateers business model is working well - 40+ wars and we are here to stay (CCP willing) SKUNK A bit unprecise there, yesterday they were 45 wars, today 54. Only 3 issued by other party. Jeeze. As of this post time there are officialy 58 wars of which 11 are 24hr decs from Runaway corps who leg it from alliances. og which 3 are from corps who haved decced Our Righteous allaince. The reson it changes daily is because the amout of war we have changes daily.This amoutn WILL be different tommorow. SKUNK My speeeling is my own and dos not represant the Privateer Corporation or Privateer alliance who incidentally are recruting pilots and corporations - Evemail me for details
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:54:00 - [157] Originally by: Taram Caldar Originally by: Bawldeux IV ok, so you say the corps hopping in and out of PA dureing war decs, to be safe in empire while making isk, can rejoin while the war is on, and it is not an exploit...just show me where a dev says it is 'ok' to evade the war dec consequences. If a corp is doing the same thing as a player can in a corp (corp hopping), to evade consequenses of a war, then how is it NOT an exploit of the intended mechanic of the alliance (alliance hopping)? 1 player doing it is an exploit... 100 as a corp doing it, is intended? sorry, but it dosn't take a 'special' person to know that is spin-doctor craptastic logic. Hmmm... I don't much like Priveteers but the simple answer to your statement is this: Until a DEV states that this is an exploit then it is not an exploit. So petition it, as he instructed you to do. It's a viable game mechanic and NOT an exploit unless the GM's say it is. And if they say it is then it's up to THEM to inforce it. As I said, I don't like Privateers. They have Storm Armada dec'd... either on their own or they got hired to do it. I deal with them every time I go to high sec. I've shot a few of them and run them off but haven't managed to pop any yet because when I go to empire, while I AM armed I am generally not rigged for a long fight or to keep someone from getting away. My job is get in, do my business and get back out. I don't fit webs or scrams when operating in high sec unless I join a high-sec wolfpack. Bottom line: As of now it's not an exploit. Privateers have clearly stated HOW they do what they do and I can attest to the fact that wardecs are NOT all that expensive. 50 mil is peanuts. I can make that in a couple hours out in 0.0. someone in high-sec can run two level 4 missions and make nearly that much after selling loot and salvage from the missions. You screaming "exploit" when it's obviously not one makes you look foolish. If you think it's an exploit then petition it and have a GM examine the facts. If they agree with you then great. If not then please stop spamming the boards with this crap. Accurate To the point. Appreciate the post SKUNK My speeeling is my own and dos not represant the Privateer Corporation or Privateer alliance who incidentally are recruting pilots and corporations - Evemail me for details
Arian Snow The Nest Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:23:00 - [158] In my humble opinion the Privateer Alliance has the made Eve a bit more interesting, if only a tad... In Eve everyone is fair game if you are willing to pay the price... So live and learn with it... O and never borrow money for a new ship if you dont have anything to fall back on, and if you do dont come whining about your loss here, you will find no sympathy Cheers to the Privateer guys for making EVE better! I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
El'rac Caldari Ascent of Ages R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:31:00 - [159] Just shoot them.. makes the boring empire runs more interesting :)
mafesto Minmatar Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:37:00 - [160] why driving new players out of the game is cool to some people, I will never know more people playing = longer EVE will be around people ganking others in Empire is about the lowest you can get in EVE....it proves nothing Privateers, I have never seen them unless they have the numbers....if you love pvp so much, get out there and fight when the odds are against you, or you can just sit in a station all day until someone in a hauler flies by
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:07:00 - [161] Originally by: mafesto why driving new players out of the game is cool to some people, I will never know more people playing = longer EVE will be around people ganking others in Empire is about the lowest you can get in EVE....it proves nothing Privateers, I have never seen them unless they have the numbers....if you love pvp so much, get out there and fight when the odds are against you, or you can just sit in a station all day until someone in a hauler flies by subscriber numbers at all time highs, ship losses good for miners etc as it means ships need replacing ammo needs are up eve never claimed to be a PVE game like wow its a combination of PVP and PVE and all the supporting bits inbetween. Youre argument just doesnt hold up if someone is in a hauler why dont they have nanos, warp stabs and or an escort.
mafesto Minmatar Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:32:00 - [162] Originally by: hotgirl933 Originally by: mafesto why driving new players out of the game is cool to some people, I will never know more people playing = longer EVE will be around people ganking others in Empire is about the lowest you can get in EVE....it proves nothing Privateers, I have never seen them unless they have the numbers....if you love pvp so much, get out there and fight when the odds are against you, or you can just sit in a station all day until someone in a hauler flies by subscriber numbers at all time highs, ship losses good for miners etc as it means ships need replacing ammo needs are up eve never claimed to be a PVE game like wow its a combination of PVP and PVE and all the supporting bits inbetween. Youre argument just doesnt hold up if someone is in a hauler why dont they have nanos, warp stabs and or an escort. blowing up noobs in Empire doesn't help the game, no matter how you look at it
Infinity Ziona Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 02:50:00 - [163] Originally by: mafesto Originally by: hotgirl933 Originally by: mafesto why driving new players out of the game is cool to some people, I will never know more people playing = longer EVE will be around people ganking others in Empire is about the lowest you can get in EVE....it proves nothing Privateers, I have never seen them unless they have the numbers....if you love pvp so much, get out there and fight when the odds are against you, or you can just sit in a station all day until someone in a hauler flies by subscriber numbers at all time highs, ship losses good for miners etc as it means ships need replacing ammo needs are up eve never claimed to be a PVE game like wow its a combination of PVP and PVE and all the supporting bits inbetween. Youre argument just doesnt hold up if someone is in a hauler why dont they have nanos, warp stabs and or an escort. blowing up noobs in Empire doesn't help the game, no matter how you look at it Noobs are people too and should not be discriminated against. I would be offended if someone refused to blow me up because I was a nooblet. Besides your wrong... When I was a little girl (3 years ago), I would war declare corporations and kill all their noobs if they didnt pay me isk. I had some of those noobs I killed convo me and ask me for advice, ask me if I could contract for them, ask me if they could join my corp, and I see them 3 years later, pirating and some even in the Privateers corporation. So in effect by blowing them up I introduced them to the dark side of EvE and PvP and helped the game grow. The Privateering Life
zoltar	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:01:00 - [164] Edited by: zoltar on 18/01/2007 02:59:53 seriously, it sure takes the fun out of EVE. We are in 5 wars atm with political issues being the cause, then out of nowhere we get dect by Privateer Alliance. Where the hell did these guys come from and why are they shooting at me? We are not in there controlled space. We have not done anything to them. In fact I didnt even know about them until we were dect. Its like... we are on the front lines fighting all our enemies with all our hearts, then some stranger runs up behind us and stabs us in the back. I mean come on, what is this crap? I ONLY see these guys in like jita and 0.5 and up. Why do they only camp us in empire and never attack us in 0.0? What is the meaning of this war? Is it for land? no! Is it because we have problems with each other? no! Is it because they want easy empire kills with almost no risk? maybe! Is it because they are just a bunch of noobs that cant hang in 0.0? maybe! I would just like a reason for this besides "because we want to fight" or "welcome to EVE". CCP needs to put a stop to this kind of nonsence war crap before it gets too out of control. Hell give it a year and no one will be able to go to empire space unless you are in the 1 corp that controls all of empire... /emote looks into the future
Lt Angus Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:09:00 - [165] Originally by: zoltar Edited by: zoltar on 18/01/2007 02:59:53 seriously, it sure takes the fun out of EVE. We are in 5 wars atm with political issues being the cause, then out of nowhere we get dect by Privateer Alliance. Where the hell did these guys come from and why are they shooting at me? We are not in there controlled space. We have not done anything to them. In fact I didnt even know about them until we were dect. Its like... we are on the front lines fighting all our enemies with all our hearts, then some stranger runs up behind us and stabs us in the back. I mean come on, what is this crap? I ONLY see these guys in like jita and 0.5 and up. Why do they only camp us in empire and never attack us in 0.0? What is the meaning of this war? Is it for land? no! Is it because we have problems with each other? no! Is it because they want easy empire kills with almost no risk? maybe! Is it because they are just a bunch of noobs that cant hang in 0.0? maybe! I would just like a reason for this besides "because we want to fight" or "welcome to EVE". CCP needs to put a stop to this kind of nonsence war crap before it gets too out of control. Hell give it a year and no one will be able to go to empire space unless you are in the 1 corp that controls all of empire... /emote looks into the future Its because someone paid us to wardec you simple as that
zoltar	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:24:00 - [166] I was going to put that in there but didnt, that is not true at all. No one has paid you to wardec us. Our enemies are at lease decent people and if i asked each and every one of them they would tell the truth. So happens we did ask and nope, none of them paid you. try again... You can come up with a million excuses but we all know the truth, we all know what you are...
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:38:00 - [167] Edited by: RedLion on 18/01/2007 03:35:55 the low price for declaring war in high sec is just wickedly sick.... I mean.... 10 millions is nothing when you do lvl 3-4 missions and you can freely grief noobies. I'm not doing this, but I think it's way to easy to "exploit" this feature. Ganking in high sec should not be allowed, or atleast a higher cost should be there. I would definitly love to see a boost in cost. 50-100 millions is atleast what griefers should have to pay. Griefing should be done in low sec, and newbies should not be hit by this. It's like arnold schwartzenegger paying 10 bucks to go around beating up babies.... edit: and to set war against alliances should also be higher... but not so dramatically...
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:41:00 - [168] I can't edit my old post because "thread doesn't exist".... And I would definitly love to see a bit higher cost for alliance wars too. (maybe 200 millions)... I mean if a pirate corp hates a corp they could chose which to declare war on, corp or alliance.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.18 03:50:00 - [169] Originally by: RedLion Edited by: RedLion on 18/01/2007 03:35:55 the low price for declaring war in high sec is just wickedly sick.... I mean.... 10 millions is nothing when you do lvl 3-4 missions and you can freely grief noobies. I'm not doing this, but I think it's way to easy to "exploit" this feature. Ganking in high sec should not be allowed, or atleast a higher cost should be there. I would definitly love to see a boost in cost. 50-100 millions is atleast what griefers should have to pay. Griefing should be done in low sec, and newbies should not be hit by this. It's like arnold schwartzenegger paying 10 bucks to go around beating up babies.... edit: and to set war against alliances should also be higher... but not so dramatically... mmm advice is learn to shoot back
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.18 07:02:00 - [170] Ya know...if a corp leaves PVT to restock, there is nothing stopping you from declaring them, its only 2 mil, and destroying them. If they dissolve the corp, that's a decisive victory. I would also remind you that there is nothing stopping anybody from using the same mechanics, leaving alliances to replenish and coming back, leaving corps to replenish and come back, etc, in fact that is exactly what you should do. In fleet battles if you are getting hit, you warp to a planet, repair, come back. That's a smart thing to do. Those who do not participate in evolution will become victims of it. There is no honor in standing there like a knight and getting clobbered by a more nimble and adaptable adversary. Read your Sun Tzu. If you can't win, the solution is not to fight. A corp is not a social club. If you absolutely positively cannot afford hostility, stay in NPC corp. Everyone should use the mechanics available to them in-game, to tailor the level of hostility they can afford and tolerate.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.18 08:24:00 - [171] yes the level of hostily is a big key maintaining assets and ships etc etc is key but yes its indiviudal and thats the good aspet of this game
Le Skunk Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.18 10:19:00 - [172] Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/01/2007 10:21:34 Originally by: zoltar Edited by: zoltar on 18/01/2007 02:59:53 Where the hell did these guys come from and why are they shooting at me? We are not in there controlled space. We have not done anything to them. In fact I didnt even know about them until we were dect. I personally claim all empire space so you are in my space. Well you know about us now. Really we cant stand fighting - its a huge marketing ploy to get everyone to know about the privateer brand by deccing everyone. Edited by: Le Skunk on 18/01/2007 10:17:15 Originally by: zoltar Edited by: zoltar on 18/01/2007 02:59:53 We are in 5 wars atm Originally by: zoltar I was going to put that in there but didnt, that is not true at all. No one has paid you to wardec us. Our enemies are at lease decent people and if i asked each and every one of them they would tell the truth. So happens we did ask and nope, none of them paid you. try again... You can come up with a million excuses but we all know the truth, we all know what you are... Your in FIVE wars and you accuse us of being bloodthirsty? Assuming the CEO's of the people you are at war with always tell the truth (which they dont) and assuming they have total knowledge of what their individual members may have paid (which they dont)You seem to forget that ANYBODY can pay us to ask for a war dec. Are you sure you havenet ganked a random passer by at any time in the last month? Can you be sure your members havent? One person can save up a little isk and pay us to dec you. ITs within a lot of peoples budgets. I suspect you ganked somebody and now youve got your comeuppance. SKUNK My speeeling is my own and dos not represant the Privateer Corporation or Privateer alliance who incidentally are recruting pilots and corporations - Evemail me for details
Patryn Xar	Posted - 2007.01.18 18:19:00 - [173] This thread, like most other threads about PA has been hijacked to simply whine about what PA does. Unfortunately, originality has taken the backseat again and the same four comments (albeit worded differently) have appeared: 1) All PA does is gank n00bs - they are bloodthirsty, cowardly people with no skill. --I am sure we do kill the occasional n00b. But I would be interested to see the responses you would get if you called BoB, (old) ASCN, D2, Morsus Mihi, Curse Alliance, CIC, IAC, Red Alliance, or CVA n00bs (no disrespect to the MANY other pvp alliances and corps PA has war dec'd). You would be flamed to hell i would guess. 2) All PA does is gank haulers - they are bloodthirsty, cowardly people with no skill. --Yes, we certainly kill haulers. Why WOULDN'T we??? Show me a pirate who doesn't kill haulers and i'll show you a broke ass pirate! Besides, we're at WAR with these people, when is the last time YOU were at war and let a war target drift by just because he was in a hauler? Lastly on this point, while we do pop haulers, go look at the killboard and you'll see that a relatively small number of haulers have been popped in proportion to the number of bigger ships - i encourage you to check it out. 3) All PA does is attack when they have the numbers, they will run away if outnnumbered - they are bloodthirsty, cowardly people with no skill. --This is one of the stupidest things I have ever read. In fact I am now dumber for having read it - I now use words like 'stupidest'. First of all, PA RARELY has any significant numbers. It's kindof built that way...that's kindof the friggin concept. I have seen ONE 5+ man gang in privateers - ever. Further, if you are outnumbered, and if you believe there is little or no possibility that you would win a fight WHY WOULDN'T YOU RUN??? Seriously...if you are the type of person who, when given the opportunity to escape knowing you'll lose, and yet refuses to take it please write down your name and corp so PA can dec you. Sure, there is something there to be said for bravery, but in that situation there is far more to be said for absolute utter stupidity. 4) All PA does is exploit the system so that there is little risk to them because all they do is gank noobs, haulers, and they run if they're outnumbered. Oh yeah, and they're bloodthirsty cowards with no skill. --I find this to be quite funny as well. We pay HUGE sums of money each week to keep wars going. I don't even want to venture a guess, but I'm sure it's well into the billions. So what if it is like slipping Concord a kickback, it happens all the time - right or wrong. If that isn't enough of a drawback, think of the 50-60 current wars we have against some of the best and most experienced pvp alliances in the game...NO RISK!?!?! As much as I would like to, I will not sit here and tell you I've never lost a ship. Bloodthirsty? Sure, we like to pvp - but that makes us no more bloodthirsty than any 0.0 warring alliance...we just prefer to do it in empire. Cowards? When the situation dictates - absolutely. No skill? Possibly. I know for a fact that we have plenty of newer players with less skill. We also have several top-notch pvp'ers who will give anyone a run for their money - Take your chances. Final thought - I promise. I'm in this for the money, and I've had more fun making money this way that anything else I've ever done in eve. The model works as well as it did back in the 17th and 18th centuries. Look up what a 'privateer' was historically. You'll find that we're not far off the mark... Happy hunting to both privateers AND the corps we war dec.
mafesto Minmatar Luna Tech Manufacturing Industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 22:56:00 - [174] excuses, excuses you guys are the ones who give pvp'rs a bad name
Nathaniel Hull Caldari Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:00:00 - [175] Edited by: Nathaniel Hull on 18/01/2007 22:59:53 no excuses ...just honesty
Aldeb Haraz	Posted - 2007.01.18 23:52:00 - [176] I appreciate being able to shoot people in high sec. Do you know how hard it is to get big alliances to declare empire war? They start talking about POSs, and stations, and capital movement, and shiver... its all downhill from there. Privateers is like a paid holiday. Random PVP with no setup time, no long run through 0.0 to reach better targets, no need for a big organized gang. Mostly just hey, anyone got reds in system? Fun stuff.
xHalcyonx Amarr EmpiresMod	Posted - 2007.01.19 00:06:00 - [177] Some Privateer Alliance guy attacked me in jita just before I left AXE alliance. A gank blaster-thron, he had t1 ogres and that shortcoming is what saved my butt. I Tracking disrupted the pilot with 2 Balmer TDs and got a lucky cycle with my hypnos multispec (post nerf, incredibly lucy). Just outsmart them.
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.19 01:42:00 - [178] Originally by: Cipher7 Ya know...if a corp leaves PVT to restock, there is nothing stopping you from declaring them, its only 2 mil, and destroying them. If they dissolve the corp, that's a decisive victory. I would also remind you that there is nothing stopping anybody from using the same mechanics, leaving alliances to replenish and coming back, leaving corps to replenish and come back, etc, in fact that is exactly what you should do. In fleet battles if you are getting hit, you warp to a planet, repair, come back. That's a smart thing to do. Those who do not participate in evolution will become victims of it. There is no honor in standing there like a knight and getting clobbered by a more nimble and adaptable adversary. Read your Sun Tzu. If you can't win, the solution is not to fight. A corp is not a social club. If you absolutely positively cannot afford hostility, stay in NPC corp. Everyone should use the mechanics available to them in-game, to tailor the level of hostility they can afford and tolerate. Blah blah blah my ass lol... that's the biggest lol post ever :) 10/10
belsambor Privateers	Posted - 2007.01.19 02:28:00 - [179] Originally by: Gadfly Hawke 1 -- The objective of EVE as a game is power. The surest route to power is money. Anybody who is playing EVE without money as the ojective probably won't be playing it for very long because they don't understand it. man far too many people take this atitude to the game, you are wrong, we play it how we like,If you dont like it,unlucky you.
Dr Slice MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.19 03:15:00 - [180] Privateer Alliance is good for the game. If you want to carebear it up, move along to another game. There are countless MMOs out there that cater to your non-pvp needs.

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