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Question about Corp Wars. No Concord protection? Un-consented PvP?EH?!

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Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:05:00 - [1] So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree?
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:06:00 - [2] No. What you're suggesting is akin to asking EVE to turn into WoW. And we dont like WoW
EnglishBob 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:07:00 - [3] I'll give you three posts before someone mentions WoW. ------------------
lofty29 Athanasius Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:07:00 - [4] Yey for WoW ---
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:07:00 - [5] Booooooooring... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
Xendie Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:09:00 - [6] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? EvE is a PVP game it is not wow. Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent? Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
Araxmas Black Lance Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:09:00 - [7] This thread died quicker than that puppy in my toilet. --------
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:09:00 - [8] Originally by: EnglishBob I'll give you three posts before someone mentions WoW. I don't care for WoW either, but as a Caldari citizen with high Caldari faction, I should be able to be provided with Concord protection AT LEAST in 0.5 space and above. What stops this from doing what the so called "Privateers" from cycling corps in and out of their alliance, so they can gank other, smaller, corporations at will? This is a really bad mechanism, and it has to change.
Raivi Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:10:00 - [9] EvE is un-consented (as you put it) pvp. Welcome to EvE.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:12:00 - [10] Fair enough. If this is the case I should be able to join any Caldari NPC Corporation at will. I'm currently stuck in "Caldari Provisions"
stoats Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:13:00 - [11] Solution: If you are a small corp don't have members that tick people off enough to drop 50m on the dec.
TheAwakening Caldari Post-Terran Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:15:00 - [12] Originally by: TheAwakening NERF PRIVATEERS THREAD #328742387 +1.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: EnglishBob I'll give you three posts before someone mentions WoW. I don't care for WoW either, but as a Caldari citizen with high Caldari faction, I should be able to be provided with Concord protection AT LEAST in 0.5 space and above. What stops this from doing what the so called "Privateers" from cycling corps in and out of their alliance, so they can gank other, smaller, corporations at will? This is a really bad mechanism, and it has to change. Eves been this way for over three years. Are you actually saying it should change because 'you' don't like it? Originally by: Nev Clavain If a war of such scale does go down the sheer forum activity will probably put the server down for good.
Sul Condbax Open Season	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:16:00 - [14] Learn to defend yourself. Who knows, you might enjoy it.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:17:00 - [15] War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What you're describing would make highsec even more of a newbie-sandbox than it already is. But it probably would lead to more people leaving their npc corps and forming corps of their own instead. Not a good idea tho imo. Highsec wars serve a useful function, which is to weed out the people that can't adapt the right mindset from the game, and keep those scared of taking risks from ever accomplishing much. -----
Olixia Castitatis Gallente Svefn-G-Englar Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:24:00 - [17] Gods, please tell me this thread is a troll thread... ----------------------- <Sig goes here>
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:27:00 - [18] Quote: War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. So true... But we all know the DEV's are PK'ers from UO, so this will never change... Building the homestead
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:27:00 - [19] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis Gods, please tell me this thread is a troll thread... Troll troll troll your bait thread gently down the forums... ------------------- ... [OK] ... zOMG!
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:34:00 - [20] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. Exactly! The current situation really discourages people from joining newbie helping organizations such as Eve University, that assist new players with learning the game.
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:35:00 - [21] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Because a state of war exists between the Privateers and your corporation. War is hell. Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Not if you don't learn how to defend yourself. EVE is a PvP game by design. Might makes right and all that. Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. God, no. That would be an absolutely wonderful thing for Real Life(tm), I must say, but not for EVE. Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Concord can't protect their secret stash of donuts, let alone players. What do you want? They're a corrupt, beauracracy filled with nepotism and all that good stuff. Again, in EVE, might makes right. You won't get very far with any grand plans unless you can defend yourself. And the Privateers are probably the best way of doing that. They're declared against half of the bloody game; even if you don't have the manpower to stand against them, you shouldn't be able to swing a dead Minmatar about without hitting potential allies. And if you're worried about the cost of fighting a war, fly cheaply. Frigate actions are some of the most fun you can have in the game, and one of the best ships to fly in order to learn the mechanics of PvP. "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Fair enough. If this is the case I should be able to join any Caldari NPC Corporation at will. I'm currently stuck in "Caldari Provisions" Hey man, don't diss CP. They put the "P" in Provisions. You might go far with them and someday be the CEO even.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Anatolius Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Because a state of war exists between the Privateers and your corporation. War is hell. You're wrong there. If a war broke out among factions within a sovereign nation, there would be peace keepers/national guard deployed to prevent the conflict from escalating. This is in the best interest of the power to prevent distabilization and ensure economic security! Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Not if you don't learn how to defend yourself. EVE is a PvP game by design. Might makes right and all that. I know how to defend myself, but sometimes when I want to do a TRADE RUN in my Badger II, I DO NOT want to deal with pirates in 1.0 space! This is why I pay my Caldari corporate taxes! Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. God, no. That would be an absolutely wonderful thing for Real Life(tm), I must say, but not for EVE. Eve Online is NOT real life, nor should it be modeled after such. Eve Online is for fun/entertainment. If I can't form a corproation in game due to mechanics, thats NOT fun! Especially after I build a website and business plan of operations for the in game corporation. I'm not forming or joining SQUAT until this changes! Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Concord can't protect their secret stash of donuts, let alone players. What do you want? They're a corrupt, beauracracy filled with nepotism and all that good stuff. Again, in EVE, might makes right. You won't get very far with any grand plans unless you can defend yourself. And the Privateers are probably the best way of doing that. They're declared against half of the bloody game; even if you don't have the manpower to stand against them, you shouldn't be able to swing a dead Minmatar about without hitting potential allies. And if you're worried about the cost of fighting a war, fly cheaply. Frigate actions are some of the most fun you can have in the game, and one of the best ships to fly in order to learn the mechanics of PvP. Don't get me wrong, I like PvP. I PvPed in other MMORPSs, a lot. I just want to PvP when I WANT TO PvP. When I want to conduct business, I want to conduct business null
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:43:00 - [24] Being in CP is a traumatic experience. I mean, the newb corps are fine, lots of nice people in them...but the normal npc corps that you get thrown into are just full of social rejects that spam the corp channel with inane apeshit -----
TheAwakening Caldari Post-Terran Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:45:00 - [25] So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself?
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:54:00 - [26] Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work.
Wraithbane	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:56:00 - [27] Chuckle...Thats the price you pay for being in a player corp...Thats why I'm still with SWA after more than a year...Welcome to Eve....
Ediz Daxx FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.15 20:57:00 - [28] Stop being a victim and people wont wardec you..
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:00:00 - [29] Privateers have yet to war dec tuxedo. What do I need to do to get their attention? Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:00:00 - [30] Privateers have yet to war dec tuxedo. What do I need to do to get their attention? Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:01:00 - [31] It's simple really. The Devs stated they want EVE to be harsh, unforgiving, survival of the fittest in all aspects. Only form a player corp, create something yourself, if you're ready to fight for it and defend it. You dont get anything for free and without risk, deal with it. If you dont like it, leave, since the game wont change, as its not broken.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:01:00 - [32] It's simple really. The Devs stated they want EVE to be harsh, unforgiving, survival of the fittest in all aspects. Only form a player corp, create something yourself, if you're ready to fight for it and defend it. You dont get anything for free and without risk, deal with it. If you dont like it, leave, since the game wont change, as its not broken.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:05:00 - [33] Edited by: Patch86 on 15/01/2007 21:02:09 Heres the thing, and its the reason why it'll never happen, and the reason you'er getting such a negative response: EVE has non-consensual PvP. Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. So no, lets not change it. If you choose to leave the NPC corps, you are consenting to combat just as surely as if you'd logged into an Unreal Tournament game. On a more constructive note, if you are having problems being war-decc'd by people, you do have options. 1) FIGHT BACK. You don't need much in the way of SP or isk to make an effect- get a bunch of you together in T1 frigs and cruisers and go ambush them. 2) Join a group that can defend itself. Seriously, the only way to be "safe" in EVE is to be part of a decent social group- if your current corp fails to provide, there are plenty who can. 3) Hire Mercenaries. Ask on the forums, and you'll get offers. Reasonably priced, too. 4) Pay your enemy to stop fighting you. Its weaselly and cowardly, but if they're asking a "ransom" you can always try paying it. 5) Leave Empire for 0.0. Seriously, Empire is a serious PITA, and you have no idea how happy I was when I realised I was shot of it. A decent chunk of 0.0 is many times safer than high-sec, much more profitable, less laggy, more fun, and so forth. Staying in Empire these days is like playing EVE on hard mode.......... -----------------------------------------------
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:05:00 - [34] Edited by: Patch86 on 15/01/2007 21:02:09 Heres the thing, and its the reason why it'll never happen, and the reason you'er getting such a negative response: EVE has non-consensual PvP. Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. So no, lets not change it. If you choose to leave the NPC corps, you are consenting to combat just as surely as if you'd logged into an Unreal Tournament game. On a more constructive note, if you are having problems being war-decc'd by people, you do have options. 1) FIGHT BACK. You don't need much in the way of SP or isk to make an effect- get a bunch of you together in T1 frigs and cruisers and go ambush them. 2) Join a group that can defend itself. Seriously, the only way to be "safe" in EVE is to be part of a decent social group- if your current corp fails to provide, there are plenty who can. 3) Hire Mercenaries. Ask on the forums, and you'll get offers. Reasonably priced, too. 4) Pay your enemy to stop fighting you. Its weaselly and cowardly, but if they're asking a "ransom" you can always try paying it. 5) Leave Empire for 0.0. Seriously, Empire is a serious PITA, and you have no idea how happy I was when I realised I was shot of it. A decent chunk of 0.0 is many times safer than high-sec, much more profitable, less laggy, more fun, and so forth. Staying in Empire these days is like playing EVE on hard mode.......... -----------------------------------------------
Rodrigo Valon Gallente Synergy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:06:00 - [35] Goes to show ya. Just because a game wins countless awards (including pvp - http://mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/1043) , and universal accolades by it's contemporary critics does not mean it's a game that is for everyone. If EvE has a theme besides "space-fight-pew-pew", it is vicious, uncompromising machevellian capitalism. It is not a fair game (like Life). That being said, it IS a balanced game (for the most part), and if you, or this corp leader, puts it's time in, does the homework, and learns how to adapt, a new corp can flourish. Happens all the time. Your experiences do not prove that this is a broken game. It does not contradict the experiences of plenty of other young, successful pilots and entrepreneurs. It is the non-consensual nature of PVP in this game that (1) has won it the loyal fanbase and accolades it has and (2) has repeatedly been confirmed as intentional by it's developers. Learn, and adapt.
Rodrigo Valon Gallente Synergy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:06:00 - [36] Goes to show ya. Just because a game wins countless awards (including pvp - http://mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/1043) , and universal accolades by it's contemporary critics does not mean it's a game that is for everyone. If EvE has a theme besides "space-fight-pew-pew", it is vicious, uncompromising machevellian capitalism. It is not a fair game (like Life). That being said, it IS a balanced game (for the most part), and if you, or this corp leader, puts it's time in, does the homework, and learns how to adapt, a new corp can flourish. Happens all the time. Your experiences do not prove that this is a broken game. It does not contradict the experiences of plenty of other young, successful pilots and entrepreneurs. It is the non-consensual nature of PVP in this game that (1) has won it the loyal fanbase and accolades it has and (2) has repeatedly been confirmed as intentional by it's developers. Learn, and adapt.
ChrisFish Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:07:00 - [37] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Privateers have yet to war dec tuxedo. What do I need to do to get their attention? you could always, you know...wardec Privateers. It works the same. Lots of targets. Or, you could pay the 50m to have us add the wardec to our list
ChrisFish Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Privateers have yet to war dec tuxedo. What do I need to do to get their attention? you could always, you know...wardec Privateers. It works the same. Lots of targets. Or, you could pay the 50m to have us add the wardec to our list
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:13:00 - [39] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/01/2007 21:10:02 Originally by: Patch86 Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? We play the game for fun and when we have the time to play eVe, we want to do our own stuffs. If we want to do business, we do business. If we want to PVP, we go to low sec or null sec to PVP. Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:13:00 - [40] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/01/2007 21:10:02 Originally by: Patch86 Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? We play the game for fun and when we have the time to play eVe, we want to do our own stuffs. If we want to do business, we do business. If we want to PVP, we go to low sec or null sec to PVP. Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:19:00 - [41] If you dont like it Jenny, WoW awaits you. (You can donate your stuff to the OP on your way out) Without unconsensual PvP, there would be no piracy, no mercs, and no T2 market as nobody would lose ships. It is all part of the bigger picture, the tools are there for you to avoid PvP if you really must. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:19:00 - [42] If you dont like it Jenny, WoW awaits you. (You can donate your stuff to the OP on your way out) Without unconsensual PvP, there would be no piracy, no mercs, and no T2 market as nobody would lose ships. It is all part of the bigger picture, the tools are there for you to avoid PvP if you really must. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:20:00 - [43] Originally by: ChrisFish Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Privateers have yet to war dec tuxedo. What do I need to do to get their attention? you could always, you know...wardec Privateers. It works the same. Lots of targets. Or, you could pay the 50m to have us add the wardec to our list No you pay the 50m! Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:23:00 - [44] Originally by: Necronomicon If you dont like it Jenny, WoW awaits you. (You can donate your stuff to the OP on your way out) Without unconsensual PvP, there would be no piracy, no mercs, and no T2 market as nobody would lose ships. It is all part of the bigger picture, the tools are there for you to avoid PvP if you really must. Not really. You have low secs and null secs PVP. You will still lose stuffs there. High secs PVP is griefing. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:23:00 - [45] hey hey solution = nublet corp. you cant war dec them and you can still play as you like with as many friends as you want to. The second you are in a player corp then its pretty much anything goes. Being a CEO of a player corp of whatever style corp you wish to create will bring politics raging down upon you and even the slightest action by any of your members can cause a war dec. some corps will dec you for fun. this even reflects upon real life too. how many corporate mergers/takeovers/lawsuits etc do you read about ? they are just eve wannabies war dec'ing in their own way :)
Stavros Amarr DEFINITELY NOT m0o	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:25:00 - [46] Viceroy should be consentual and not pvp ;\ -- "DANCE DANCE"
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:29:00 - [47] Jenny, really, are you taking the urinal? If you dont want to be suicide ganked with a bill of minerals in your hauler, dont fly a hauler, fly a transport. If you don't want to be decced by the likes of privateers, then join a corp they are unlikely to dec, if that corp will have you that is. Eve is a PVP based game, any attempt by CCP to diminish the pvp element would be suicidal. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Aceoil Direct Intent Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:29:00 - [48] Added to my friends list.
Easy Target Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:31:00 - [49] It really isnt hard to avoid wars if u really dont want to PvP. i know people who have never PvPed in their lives, have never lost a ship to a player, have played for over 3 years AND lived in 0.0 for a few months. Trust me, after being on the war declaring side of the arguement fiding targets that dont want to be found is impossible!! They only have so many war declarations... Get creative A war corp taht doesnt get any targets doesnt stay for long, dont form fleets to attack them, that is what they want, bore them to death.. You cant stop the corps joining and leaving to be involved in, and to avoid the war, do the same to them Drop out into your noob corp, have all players ganged up and just keep a holder char in the corp you left, you all have 2 alts, use them for hangar access and whatever. Get creative, stop complaining, its a game, play it, play them, dont like the way they play, make they way of play boring. I am a PvPer, and i have been on the recieving end of war avoiding tactics many a time... We just moved on to the next target... :) Easy Target ----------------------------------------------- No i'm not good... but i have never claimed to be --------------------
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:31:00 - [50] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/01/2007 21:10:02 Originally by: Patch86 Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? We play the game for fun and when we have the time to play eVe, we want to do our own stuffs. If we want to do business, we do business. If we want to PVP, we go to low sec or null sec to PVP. Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! OK, who bought Jenny's account? Nanobotter? * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Mitsuko Souma Gallente The United Federation of Spice	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:32:00 - [51] These are the types of threads that make me not want to read the forums. Seriously, get over it - you can see peoples status to your corp in local which makes it fairly simple to avoid fights. Some corp wardecced us for no reason in Empire, we got on with life an just kept our eye on things. The Eve universe is huge, stop whining and play better.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari Northern Intelligence SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Necronomicon Jenny, really, are you taking the urinal? If you dont want to be suicide ganked with a bill of minerals in your hauler, dont fly a hauler, fly a transport. If you don't want to be decced by the likes of privateers, then join a corp they are unlikely to dec, if that corp will have you that is. Eve is a PVP based game, any attempt by CCP to diminish the pvp element would be suicidal. High sec gankers will gank haulers and transports. It does not matter what non-freighter industrial ships you fly. If they want to gank you, they will gank you. Who says eVe is PVP? We have PVE contents. R&D missions, combat missions, courier missions. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:35:00 - [53] By the time your local loads up and tells you were are there, it is already too late But I get your point ;) Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:37:00 - [54] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Not really. You have low secs and null secs PVP. You will still lose stuffs there. High secs PVP is griefing. hehe...she said secs...
TheCleaner ALT	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:38:00 - [55] NO FIGHT LIKE A MAN.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Necronomicon Jenny, really, are you taking the urinal? If you dont want to be suicide ganked with a bill of minerals in your hauler, dont fly a hauler, fly a transport. If you don't want to be decced by the likes of privateers, then join a corp they are unlikely to dec, if that corp will have you that is. Eve is a PVP based game, any attempt by CCP to diminish the pvp element would be suicidal. High sec gankers will gank haulers and transports. It does not matter what non-freighter industrial ships you fly. If they want to gank you, they will gank you. Who says eVe is PVP? We have PVE contents. R&D missions, combat missions, courier missions. Sorry, but I challenge ANYONE to gank one of my trnasports in high sec, I fit to sustain an alpha strike from a full T2 fitted Tempest with maxxed out gunnery skills (on my alt ofc, I would not be caught dead in such a carebearish vessel) :P I agree, someone has haxxed Jenny's account. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:40:00 - [57] Jenny when did you sell your account o.0 Is that really you!?!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:42:00 - [58] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Necronomicon If you dont like it Jenny, WoW awaits you. (You can donate your stuff to the OP on your way out) Without unconsensual PvP, there would be no piracy, no mercs, and no T2 market as nobody would lose ships. It is all part of the bigger picture, the tools are there for you to avoid PvP if you really must. Not really. You have low secs and null secs PVP. You will still lose stuffs there. High secs PVP is griefing. griefing I see this word tossed around so much. Griefing is not shooting at some one to get a point across or to get something from them be it Loot, Isk, Surrender, Revenge etc. GRIEFING IS JUST BLOWING THE CRAP OUT OF THE SAME PERSON/PERSONS TO ** THEM OFF. Privateers are highsec pirates not griefers. If you've been wardec'd by the privateers then odds are you had a profit potential. Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin** Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:43:00 - [59] Originally by: TheCleaner ALT NO FIGHT LIKE A MAN. GTFO alt poster Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Mikal Drey	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:44:00 - [60] i felt that too. there was certainly a sudden shift in the force. I actually posted to this thread cause i saw jenny's name and i thought she'd say PewPewPeww kablam shooty shooty.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:46:00 - [61] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? Disagree. War isn't a happy, dandy thing where we ask what the other guy wants. We don't give a rat's ass what the other guy wants. Could you imagine? "Hey, buddy....I was wondering...would you like to go to war with me? Maybe we could grab a mocha frappucino after I've sifted through the pillaged, ravaged remnants of your little corporation." No...war is always declared by one side. Yes...sometimes other countries/factions/corporations join in the war...but in the beginning...one person says, "I want to go to war with you" and it's on. This isn't a match in the ring with a ref, ya know. Concord doesn't get involved in politics....that's why they won't help you. You wanted to lead a corporation, right? Well, maybe it's time you went back to the manual and read over all the OTHER things you apparently missed the first time ya read it so you can be a more effective leader.
TheCleaner ALT	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:50:00 - [62] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: TheCleaner ALT NO FIGHT LIKE A MAN. GTFO alt poster L00K WHOS TALKING?!??! POST WITH YOUR MAIN
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:53:00 - [63] Originally by: TheCleaner ALT Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: TheCleaner ALT NO FIGHT LIKE A MAN. GTFO alt poster L00K WHOS TALKING?!??! POST WITH YOUR MAIN This is my main would you like a login screenshot? Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.15 21:56:00 - [64] I think the war system does need some changes/overhauls to be honest. The price of war is too cheap imho, and there should be some kind of penalty for wardecing other than isk, so that its not possible to live "lawlessly" in high sec by deccing many corps or continuously deccing corps. Maybe there should be a limit to how often and how many wars can be made/active to avoid suspicion! If you want freedom to pvp come to 0.0 As far as I understand it the war 'fee' is a bribe to concord officials to look the other way... well that only works if other people don't notice, and if there are like 40-50 wars with the same entity then everybody will notice... from an RP pov its a bit screwy. Eve has inflated somewhat since the last war fee update, no doubt the concorde officials' costs have also risen, so their bribes must too :) ______________________________________
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:03:00 - [65] /emote checks calendar... Bit early aint it? CEI's own Undercover Brother [MIA] It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Madboy Minmatar Mentally Unstable Enterprises Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:03:00 - [66] EVE is not ment to be nice and kuddly with little wabbits hopping around, while the sound of music plays in the background. The truth is death and destruction fuels the enire universe. Market, Alliances, Corporations, Individuals. Death and Destruction fuels EVE to new and more wonderful things. Mate, it's simple. If you (or anyone else) don't like that fact then change. WOW I think has the same monthly cost. They have PvE servers. Nice loot and you have to agree to getting your ass ganked by someone who has 5 level 60 characters on a different server. Anyways, have fun and you won't be missed. - MadBoy
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:16:00 - [67] Originally by: Malicia Skirj Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? Disagree. War isn't a happy, dandy thing where we ask what the other guy wants. We don't give a rat's ass what the other guy wants. Could you imagine? "Hey, buddy....I was wondering...would you like to go to war with me? Maybe we could grab a mocha frappucino after I've sifted through the pillaged, ravaged remnants of your little corporation." No...war is always declared by one side. Yes...sometimes other countries/factions/corporations join in the war...but in the beginning...one person says, "I want to go to war with you" and it's on. This isn't a match in the ring with a ref, ya know. Concord doesn't get involved in politics....that's why they won't help you. You wanted to lead a corporation, right? Well, maybe it's time you went back to the manual and read over all the OTHER things you apparently missed the first time ya read it so you can be a more effective leader. This is a game. I've already stated this fact. The last guy's reply was just as bad.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:17:00 - [68] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 15/01/2007 22:14:13 Originally by: Eteon Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: TheCleaner ALT Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: TheCleaner ALT NO FIGHT LIKE A MAN. GTFO alt poster L00K WHOS TALKING?!??! POST WITH YOUR MAIN This is my main would you like a login screenshot? I would. Just 'cause I'm bored at work . Linkage Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:20:00 - [69] Originally by: Easy Target It really isnt hard to avoid wars if u really dont want to PvP. i know people who have never PvPed in their lives, have never lost a ship to a player, have played for over 3 years AND lived in 0.0 for a few months. Trust me, after being on the war declaring side of the arguement fiding targets that dont want to be found is impossible!! They only have so many war declarations... Get creative A war corp taht doesnt get any targets doesnt stay for long, dont form fleets to attack them, that is what they want, bore them to death.. You cant stop the corps joining and leaving to be involved in, and to avoid the war, do the same to them Drop out into your noob corp, have all players ganged up and just keep a holder char in the corp you left, you all have 2 alts, use them for hangar access and whatever. Get creative, stop complaining, its a game, play it, play them, dont like the way they play, make they way of play boring. I am a PvPer, and i have been on the recieving end of war avoiding tactics many a time... We just moved on to the next target... :) Easy Target Now this isn't a bad response. But, what if I want to remain in Empire space for the majority of the time? So, if I was to disband and then reform the corp with a slightly different name, would this be a good counter? Also, I assume it would make the opponent waste a lot of isk declaring war on our corporation?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:25:00 - [70] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. War isn't about a mutual consent to fight. War is about killing someone else for whatever reason, good or bad. Mutual consent for a war? PvP in empire would die overnight. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:26:00 - [71] Edited by: DarkMatter on 15/01/2007 22:22:47 Quote: A war corp taht doesnt get any targets doesnt stay for long, dont form fleets to attack them, that is what they want, bore them to death.. Who wants to log onto EVE to bore ppl to death? That's no way to play a game... Just like corp war griefing is no way to play either... Anyways, same old broken record. OP, it's never going to change, may as well quit EVE and go play another game if you don't like it... The DEV's don't want ppl like you playing this game anyways... That's the true harshness of EVE and CCP. Building the homestead
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.15 22:27:00 - [72] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Fair enough. If this is the case I should be able to join any Caldari NPC Corporation at will. Who says any Caldari NPC wants you, or any other player? Job application =! war declaration. Oh, and if you tried to force your way into one of the NPC Caldari corps, its parent mega corp would likely send its private police force to kill you, and no, CONCORD wouldn't intervene in that because it'd be above their jurisdiction. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:32:00 - [73] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: Malicia Skirj Disagree. War isn't a happy, dandy thing where we ask what the other guy wants. We don't give a rat's ass what the other guy wants. Could you imagine? "Hey, buddy....I was wondering...would you like to go to war with me? Maybe we could grab a mocha frappucino after I've sifted through the pillaged, ravaged remnants of your little corporation." No...war is always declared by one side. Yes...sometimes other countries/factions/corporations join in the war...but in the beginning...one person says, "I want to go to war with you" and it's on. This isn't a match in the ring with a ref, ya know. Concord doesn't get involved in politics....that's why they won't help you. You wanted to lead a corporation, right? Well, maybe it's time you went back to the manual and read over all the OTHER things you apparently missed the first time ya read it so you can be a more effective leader. This is a game. I've already stated this fact. The last guy's reply was just as bad. Yes, it is a game. I've no idea what that has to do with my reply, though. If you're hinting that since it's a game every facet of it should be unlike anything in reality...well...I hate to break it to ya, but all games are based on reality in some way. We may not have spaceships that go light speed, but we do have vehicles. We may not travel between planets, but we can go between towns. We may not travel between systems, but we can between states and countries. We don't have dollars, but we do have ISK. So on. And like reality, Eve has something similar to war. So...it's a game...with warfare in it...and one person can declare war on you without your consent. It's still a game. What's your point?
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:41:00 - [74] Eve is not fair. In that respect, Eve stands out among all the rest. There are many games that will hold your hand, help you, protect you from nasty people. Eve is not one of them. And it is sheer brillance.
Nainana Minmatar Tides of Silence Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:47:00 - [75] Originally by: Major Stormer Eve is not fair. In that respect, Eve stands out among all the rest. There are many games that will hold your hand, help you, protect you from nasty people. Eve is not one of them. And it is sheer brillance. Now this post says it all in just a few brilliant lines.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:49:00 - [76] Since when war was consensual? Seriously, look in a dictionary or history book. Theres a reason it's called war
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:51:00 - [77] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 16/01/2007 00:03:31 It seems like this discussion is passing over my head. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Oliver Singh Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.15 23:55:00 - [78] Originally by: Anatolius Concord can't protect their secret stash of donuts, let alone players. What do you want? They're a corrupt, beauracracy filled with nepotism and all that good stuff. It stands to reason one should be able to bribe them for more than just looking away, if this is indeed true. :) ----- I'm fine with being an !. That picture doesn't have my best hat in it anyway.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 00:01:00 - [79] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Who says eVe is PVP? We have PVE contents. R&D missions, combat missions, courier missions. The Devs have. Over and over and over. Repeatedly. So many god damned times, it makes my head hurt. And its their game, to do with as they wish. EVE is like any PvP game (like any FPS, or NASCAR game, or anything like that). You log onto the server, you're consenting to PvP. Its like logging on to Counter Strike then complaining when someone shoots you, claiming you "only wanted to rescue the hostages peacefully, maybe fire off a few rounds, I paid for this game, I can play it how I want!". You log onto CS you're agreeing to PvP, you log into EVE you're agreeing to PvP. The tools are already in game to help you avoid fighting when you don't want to, including a myriad of corps which are invulnerable to being war-dec'd, and space patroled by NPCs. But when you leave the safety of these countermeasures behind (by joining a Corporation), you're entering the game proper- and must be prepared to play on the terms that EVE dictates. -----------------------------------------------
oodin Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 00:39:00 - [80] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree?
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 00:46:00 - [81] Yes, I do like the PvP aspect. The possibility of running into pirates makes the game VERY fun. With one exception: corp warring. Something just needs to be "tweaked" to make it slightly different. Perhaps raise the price of declaring a war on a corporation/alliance. Very well then, I'm going to form a new NPC Corp then, and noone will stop me!
Xaintrix Revolution. The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2007.01.16 00:53:00 - [82] Edited by: Xaintrix on 16/01/2007 00:49:52 Originally by: Patch86 EVE is like any PvP game (like any FPS, or NASCAR game, or anything like that) The day I see Jeff Bodine get ganked off of Pit Road by the #96 Privateer Speedster is the day I will officially cry for joy.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:10:00 - [83] Originally by: Madboy EVE is not ment to be nice and kuddly with little wabbits hopping around, while the sound of music plays in the background. *"The truth is death and destruction fuels the enire universe."* Market, Alliances, Corporations, Individuals. Death and Destruction fuels EVE to new and more wonderful things. Mate, it's simple. If you (or anyone else) don't like that fact then change. WOW I think has the same monthly cost. They have PvE servers. Nice loot and you have to agree to getting your ass ganked by someone who has 5 level 60 characters on a different server. Anyways, have fun and you won't be missed. - MadBoy This is not a philosophical discussion, but a game balancing discussion.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:40:00 - [84] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Very well then, I'm going to form a new NPC Corp then, and noone will stop me! You're an NPC? They're letting you guys on the forums now? /files bug report * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:55:00 - [85] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. And that consent was given by you, and it was fully voluntary I might add, when you joined a player created corporation. Don't like it? "The Scope" or whatever other NPC corp is appropriate for you awaits.
Siege Minmatar Siegecraft Bounty Hunting	Posted - 2007.01.16 01:58:00 - [86] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Very well then, I'm going to form a new NPC Corp then, and noone will stop me! Other that CCP, who are the only people that have that power. You do realize that NPC stands for "Non-Player Character", right? You, as a "Player" are then by definition NOT a "Non-Player", and can't create a "Non-Player" anything.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.16 02:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: Madboy EVE is not ment to be nice and kuddly with little wabbits hopping around, while the sound of music plays in the background. *"The truth is death and destruction fuels the enire universe."* Market, Alliances, Corporations, Individuals. Death and Destruction fuels EVE to new and more wonderful things. Mate, it's simple. If you (or anyone else) don't like that fact then change. WOW I think has the same monthly cost. They have PvE servers. Nice loot and you have to agree to getting your ass ganked by someone who has 5 level 60 characters on a different server. Anyways, have fun and you won't be missed. - MadBoy This is not a philosophical discussion, but a game balancing discussion. the game is balanced enough as it is - you continue to bark up a tree that really flies against what this game is about. Stop whining get a combat ship and get out there and fight
Petrothian Tong	Posted - 2007.01.16 02:29:00 - [88] the current system is fine... if EVERYTHING remains the way they are... BUT.. theres alot of people who Whine about nerfing NPC corps... now.. If npc corp stays the same way it is..(handicapped but still playable for casuals.) then all is fine and dandy, but combined with the calls to nerf npc corps, than the war thing is a problem... but the current system is fine. at the moment, everything is "balanced"
Llynn Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 02:44:00 - [89] ok, short awnser: This is a game, these are the rules, live with it or leave. Simple as that. I've always been annoyed by those bishops moving diagonally, but you don't see me whining about it.... You could stay in a npc corp or (if you think it benefits you) join a player corp. But then you can be war decced. Risk vs Reward is what eve is all about.
Coran Ordus Radiant With Terror	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:40:00 - [90] So do you go to fancy restaurants and complain that they don't have fries and milkshakes too? You pay them money, they should give you what you want, right? Some people.
Zaphod Jones Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:49:00 - [91] did poland ever say "yeah, why not, we agree to this war"
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:54:00 - [92] there seems a stressful overreaction to war in eve all down we are timid carebears except some select nutcases
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.16 03:55:00 - [93] Wardecs happen to people who bring attention to themselves. For example with posts like....this.
Gyvate Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:01:00 - [94] "The DEVS say it's a PvP game!!!" or "It's the DEV'S game and they can do what they want!!!" I don't normally post but this really gets my panties in a bunch. 2 fictions for the price of one. Let me 'splain. Eve Online is a business. It's not here for anyone to have fun except as is needed to make CCP money. Drill this into your head. You think the corporate world in Eve is tough, wait till your mortgage is due and the only thing that decides if you can pay it is whether or not a bunch of kids PAY FOR YOUR GAME! Fiction 1: The first fiction is that it's a PvP game. They love to say this in print because it makes the PvPrs feel that have a home here and keeps them from joining the 8 MILLION subscribers of WoW or some other game. Maybe CounterStrike. I've played pure PvP games and they have almost nothing to do if you don't like to PvP. Eve Online has lots to do for the PvE player and other than the wardec system (which as not been a part of Eve for 3 years) it's pretty safe for the so called Carebear. I'm not saying PvP is not encouraged. Of course it is, but the DEVS write plenty of code for the PvErs that pretty much shoots down their hardcore PvP mantras. It's all about something called CHURN. Remember this word, because you're going to see it again. Fiction 2: The second fiction is that the DEVS can do whatever they want with this game because it's theirs. Bwahahahaha! Give me a break. This game belongs to the CCP corp who will do whatever the guys in suits decide to do in order to make money. Wooo the disgruntled WoW, EQ, and SWG populations with the promise of almost unlimted non-consentual PvP. Give the PvE crowd reasonably safe occupations to carry out. Constantly work to keep the largest amount of the playerbase happy to avoid CHURN. The DEVS probably have to shte-can lots of their favorite ideas to keep the game going, to keep the money flowing, to keep their jobs. I'm sure other long time posters on this forum can give lots of examples. Let me sum up. Fiction 1: Don't believe everything you hear even from the DEVS. They have to play their part in the marketing machine and it's a pretty poor company that doesn't continue to market to it's paying customers. Why? If those paying customers feel unloved, they might CHURN. PvPrs like to be catered too. It's the only game that appears to. The other 70ish percent of the game that lives in high sec like to play without being shot at. Who is this game really for? Just look where the majority of the players are and you will know. Fiction 2: This is not somebody's BBS running a copy of Trade Wars. This is a business that has a gross income of at LEAST $750,000 a month, and they also have expenses, such as bandwidth, salaries, benefits, marketing, et cetera. If to many people get unhappy with their play experience, they CHURN and the income goes down. Anybody with a 6th grade education should be able to figure out what happens then. The DEVS are the humble servants of the playerbase and the suits that make decisions. Other tidbits. Many of you have invited the OP to depart for WoW or other games. Beware of what you wish for. Do you really want most empire players to leave and play something else? You'll find yourself playing another game as well when CCP pulls the plug on Eve. Grow up! It isn't all about them and their carebearish needs, but guess what? It's not all about your need to shoot everybody you see demonstrating the size of your gaming johnson. -Gyvate* The Sailing Man Viva elNorte! PS: Churn is a finance term for losing a subscriber, for those who didn't figure that one out yet.
Llynn Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:05:00 - [95] pvp isn't just pew pew, it's any activity in which you compete with other players. So yes, eve is a pvp game.
Hans Steinberg Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:06:00 - [96] There should be a button that you can press if you want to 'duel' with another character, just for fun, and you wouldn't lose a ship or anything because you'd stop taking damage when you had 1hp of structure left. Also, they should make it so that Caldari can only fight Gallente and only if you've pressed the button that says 'you can kill me now if you want'. Also, instead of being set in space, the game should be set in the fantasy world of Azeroth and... wait... am I being silly now? Anyway, on a serious note: if CCP changed the rules slightly to 'no war in 1.0 space' would anyone really be that bothered? --- Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Ivan K
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:32:00 - [97] Originally by: Hans Steinberg Anyway, on a serious note: if CCP changed the rules slightly to 'no war in 1.0 space' would anyone really be that bothered? Yes, for reasons I don't think needs to be reiterated a millionth time. /Ki
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:36:00 - [98] consentual pvp makes me a sad panda. --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends. Sig nerfz0r - maximum allowed siz0r is 24000 bytz0r. - Devil ([email protected]) Sig By Ortos
Corbin Devereux Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:55:00 - [99] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? GO BACK TO WOW!
Ephemeron The Syndicate Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.16 04:57:00 - [100] There's a simple solution to your war dec problem - move to NPC owned 0.0 region. You can dock at NPC stations in 0.0. I can assure you that you won't see any Privateer out there :-) Alternatively, you can take advantage of the MWD + Cloak warp trick, making you unstoppable for traveling in empire. Your only weakness will be undocking from some stations and warping away, but with some effort you can setup a bm in next grid that is aligned with your undock velocity - thus allowing you to insta warp after undock. With some effort and game know-how, you CAN be completely safe from all empire wars.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:15:00 - [101] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 15/01/2007 21:10:02 Originally by: Patch86 Thats the whole point. It's one of its major selling points. it is, frankly, what makes it EVE. We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? We play the game for fun and when we have the time to play eVe, we want to do our own stuffs. If we want to do business, we do business. If we want to PVP, we go to low sec or null sec to PVP. Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! That's like saying "I bought Medieval Total War and I am not allowed to build a stormtroopers and AT-ATs, I paid for the game why can I not build Star Wars units? I wouldn't get beaten at this game online all the time if I could have my Imperial Star Destroyer wtfpwn that guy's cavalry from space". Play the game, if the game doesn't suit you go play another game. Blog
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:21:00 - [102] Originally by: Gyvate ... lots of stuff about people leaving the game because they don't like how it was designed and therefore ruining CPP's income stream... The game has always had non-concensual PvP and has steadily grown in subscriber numbers. Eve may never be a mainstream MMO with subscriber numbers to rival WoW but it is a steadily growing niche game which appeals to a certain sector of the market. CPP's business is definitely succeeding and all the drama that comes out everytime someone posts in the general forum that they disagree with non-consensual PvP doesn't seem to have had a great deal of effect on one of the cornerstones of the game's design over the past three years does it? Blog
Gyvate Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:37:00 - [103] Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.16 05:56:00 - [104] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte Amen. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.16 07:17:00 - [105] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte The eve population has grown through times alot worse than the current era of Privateers. The fact is Privateers is playing well within the rules. They're doing what BoB could never really do but has allways wanted, which is wardeck all of Eve. Wars have been like this from day one and there have be much greater atempts to kill people ilegaly that haven't put people off eve. Blacklight had it right, what you're asking for is something thats not on the box. Noowhere does CCP claim, not even in the tutorials nowadays that Empire space is safe. ----
Mazzarins Demise	Posted - 2007.01.16 08:06:00 - [106] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte It's as if he is foretelling of a split between Non-Con PVP and Con-PVP a la Ultima Online and the Felucca & Trammel split. shudders
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:02:00 - [107] Originally by: SSgt Sniper Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte Amen. In itself true of course, but you're missing one point. Many of the industrialists/non-pvpers realize how much PvP is an integral part of Eve. You can't just remove non-consentual PvP from highsec without ruining the game. Fortunately most people in Eve seem to realize this, or else we wouldn't be seeing rising subscription numbers now would we? Eve has a working economy to some extent. We have resource gathering (mining), conversion into consumable goods (i.e. manufacturing) and consumption (i.e. PvP). If you were to significantly reduce PvP by removing nonconsentual PvP from Highsec, you'd have a significant drop in consumption. Less ships that get blown up means less ships that need to be bought means less ships that have to be built means less minerals that have to be mined. I.e. recession. The builders and miners live in a symbiotic relationship with the PvPers.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:12:00 - [108] No, the main reason against consentuality is the fact that every activity in Eve is a tool, and that all tools can be used in any space to combat the use of any tool by your chosen enemy. You are not safe from economic pvp, combat pvp, pshychological pvp or political pvp anywhere in Eve. And making one exception breaks the balance. If you disable high sec pvp, you disable the possibility for one corp to disrupt his enemies' economic efforts. Yes, the main idea of Eve is corporate competition on any front possible. That competition can only lead somewhere if there's no consentuality involved. Unless of course you would consider the 'pistols at dawn' system of most other mmo's to be competition. I don't. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:20:00 - [109] high sec pvp is already disabled ....join a n00b corp knowledge is power.... guard it well
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 10:47:00 - [110] Originally by: Rod Blaine No, the main reason against consentuality is the fact that every activity in Eve is a tool, and that all tools can be used in any space to combat the use of any tool by your chosen enemy. You are not safe from economic pvp, combat pvp, pshychological pvp or political pvp anywhere in Eve. And making one exception breaks the balance. If you disable high sec pvp, you disable the possibility for one corp to disrupt his enemies' economic efforts. Yes, the main idea of Eve is corporate competition on any front possible. That competition can only lead somewhere if there's no consentuality involved. Unless of course you would consider the 'pistols at dawn' system of most other mmo's to be competition. I don't. While I agree with the concept, within Eve I don't think it stands up to scrutiny completely. With the ability to keep alts in noobcorps and do just about anything still, it is possible for people/corps/alliances to secure their economic base effectively from enemies if they really want to. Also the fact that your stuff is completely and utterly safe within a station breaks it IMO. The smartest/most dedicated enemies can and will evade this kind of competition if they want to. For me its more a matter of keeping consumption up so the economy keeps going.
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:00:00 - [111] Let me approach this from another angle. Suppose there was no non-consensual PVP. The op can happily form his mining/trading corp and get busy. They find themselves a lovely .5 system with loads of kernite to mine, they are the sole suppliers of module x to the entire region. One day they log on to discover that a rival mining/trading corp has decided to settle in their home system. These guys have a timezone advantage so by the time the corp miners get online on respaawn days all the best rocks are already spacedust. To add insult to injury the new upstarts are also selling module x all over their region...at a discount. In short the OP's corp's carebears have been out PVP'd by Corp #2. They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. Under a non-consensual system option 4: Hiring mercs/wardeccing to drive off opposition is still possible. Onder a consensual system they are back to the first three options only, there is literally nothing they can do about their competitors. Oh wait lets take this one step further. Is the OP implieng that ALL PVP be removed from High-sec? well in that case I am afraid that market modules will forthwith be sold only a standardised price. Undercutting your trade rivals cannot be allowed, after all, that is NON-CONSENSUAL PVP. It simply takes place inside the stations and does not involve anybody being blown up! SO now.....what are we left with in high sec? A load of mission runners who are now unable to sell the mods they loot. And a load of miners who cannot hope to sell their wares for anything but the regional fixed average. Oh and a lot of traders with nothing to do at all except move mods between stations for no profit whatsoever. EVE PVP encompasses far far more than simply the shooty shooty parts. DOnt fix it please, it simply ain't broke! Oh and Jenny....are you feeling alright? We are all worried about you! F4T4L - Recruitment and Corp Charter
Ilea Celentay Veiled Justice	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... They could war dec the corp and fight them out of 'their' space. Change non-consensual PvP war decs and corporations loose the ability to fight away the opposition. I dislike the fact that Newbi corps are used to shelter people from War. In my opinion if smaller corps had a risk of War from piwates, and there was no NPC corps to hind in current corps would be bigger and strong, rather than having this mass of 5-15 member corps you would see much larger corps with much more industrial and PvP strength. Its simple, dont give people a save-haven and they will band together to fight and that i think would make everyone more happy. I think removing NPC corp 'sage-haven' would make this issue less of a problem, not worse. Bigger corps are the key. To the OP; if your scared of empire war decs there are a lot of Anti-piwate corps or PvP players that would happily fight against the piwates, sometimes even for free. Don't shy out because YOU don't want to fight, dodging war targets and working to over come them makes Eve a more enjoyable place. If your idea is so good for a corp; I am sure you could afford to keep and support PvP members that would easily defend your corporation from Empire wars. The simple saying, Adapt to it works wonders. - Faction\|Tech1 Ship Info \|\| Rig Factory
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:29:00 - [113] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What happened to the Jenny Spitfire who said "eve is all about giving and receiving pain"? If the above statement is true, why should empire space be a cushy little zone in which receiving pain is consentual? If you are a small corp and a new player it really isn't hard at alll to avoid a war dec. I've been there and done it myself when it was necessary. No one can be bothered to chase someone half way across empire just to kill a few t1 fitted frigates. However if its just an empire corp of experienced players with fat ships loaded with expensive modules, then they should be able to defend themselves no?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:33:00 - [114] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 11:35:43 Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 16/01/2007 03:55:11 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Did George Bush call S.addam and ask him if he wanted to have a war? War is never consentual. That's why they call it war. There are so many political stages ramping up to war IRL that simply do not exist in EVE... If S.addam had complied with the UN, and proven to the world unequivocally there was no WMD, there would not have been a war. Because S.addam was defiant, he gave the US one foot in the door, and we chose to break the door down... There was no WMD, all S.addam had to do was prove it... You simply don't have ANYTHING like that in EVE. Empire corp wars are usually not legitimate in any way. They are simply used for some griefing corp to put the smackdown on some noob corp... It's the same old broken record... Same a$$holes declaring war on noobs, because real PvP is too hard for them... The war declaration system really can't be revamped without making it very complicated & political, something CCP simply just not have the brains for IMO, or care to put in the effort... They'd rather work on making PvP more complicated by introducing Heat and the like... CCP has spoken on this with their unwillingness to make the corp warfare declaration system anything more than a noob PC corp griefing tactic, they choose to leave it as such... You have to deal with it if you want to play EVE. 1) Disband and play in an NPC corp. 2) Deal with the a$$holes, fight back or bore them away. 3) Quit EVE and play another game. Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:33:00 - [115] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 11:35:43 Originally by: Cipher7 Edited by: Cipher7 on 16/01/2007 03:55:11 Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Did George Bush call S.addam and ask him if he wanted to have a war? War is never consentual. That's why they call it war. There are so many political stages ramping up to war IRL that simply do not exist in EVE... If S.addam had complied with the UN, and proven to the world unequivocally there was no WMD, there would not have been a war. Because S.addam was defiant, he gave the US one foot in the door, and we chose to break the door down... There was no WMD, all S.addam had to do was prove it... You simply don't have ANYTHING like that in EVE. Empire corp wars are usually not legitimate in any way. They are simply used for some griefing corp to put the smackdown on some noob corp... It's the same old broken record... Same a$$holes declaring war on noobs, because real PvP is too hard for them... The war declaration system really can't be revamped without making it very complicated & political, something CCP simply just not have the brains for IMO, or care to put in the effort... They'd rather work on making PvP more complicated by introducing Heat and the like... CCP has spoken on this with their unwillingness to make the corp warfare declaration system anything more than a noob PC corp griefing tactic, they choose to leave it as such... You have to deal with it if you want to play EVE. 1) Disband and play in an NPC corp. 2) Deal with the a$$holes, fight back or bore them away. 3) Quit EVE and play another game. Building the homestead
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:38:00 - [116] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte No, you don't seem to understand. You are making assumptions not based on facts. People have been predicting doom and gloom for EVE on account of its PVP system since I joined the game 2 years ago and probably long before them. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE continues to grow. Obviously CCP are doing something right. Changing empire to a total safety zone would alienate a very key group of players who have supported this game through thick and thin. Learn to defend your self, or risk being dominated. On the empire-only side, there are many ways to defend your activities and assets without the need for shooting other players. AS the size of an organisation and its assets grow, you will need an equivalent fighting force to protect it, because otherwise someone will take it all away from you, for their own amusement or profit. That is EVE, as has already been said, its a brutal universe out there, and no one is going to protect you but you.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:38:00 - [117] Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte No, you don't seem to understand. You are making assumptions not based on facts. People have been predicting doom and gloom for EVE on account of its PVP system since I joined the game 2 years ago and probably long before them. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE continues to grow. Obviously CCP are doing something right. Changing empire to a total safety zone would alienate a very key group of players who have supported this game through thick and thin. Learn to defend your self, or risk being dominated. On the empire-only side, there are many ways to defend your activities and assets without the need for shooting other players. AS the size of an organisation and its assets grow, you will need an equivalent fighting force to protect it, because otherwise someone will take it all away from you, for their own amusement or profit. That is EVE, as has already been said, its a brutal universe out there, and no one is going to protect you but you.
Mira deVorsha Caldari Boards.ie	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:53:00 - [118] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis Gods, please tell me this thread is a troll thread... Today is bring your carebear to work day. Didn't you get that memo?
Mira deVorsha Caldari Boards.ie	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:53:00 - [119] Originally by: Olixia Castitatis Gods, please tell me this thread is a troll thread... Today is bring your carebear to work day. Didn't you get that memo?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:55:00 - [120] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What happened to the Jenny Spitfire who said "eve is all about giving and receiving pain"? If the above statement is true, why should empire space be a cushy little zone in which receiving pain is consentual? I wonder about that, too. Well, chars can change minds. If this is an older mind or a new one I don't know.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.16 11:55:00 - [121] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Jenny Spitfire War decs or empire wars should have been consensual PVP. Low secs for non-consensual and null secs for free for all. High secs wars are lame and bad for new players experience. What happened to the Jenny Spitfire who said "eve is all about giving and receiving pain"? If the above statement is true, why should empire space be a cushy little zone in which receiving pain is consentual? I wonder about that, too. Well, chars can change minds. If this is an older mind or a new one I don't know.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:15:00 - [122] Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: Gyvate Blacklight, Sorry pal, but I've got to give you a C minus in reading comprehension. Your paraphrase of what I said didn't quite cover it. Let me re-phrase. CCP has to protect their income stream by giving a lot of people an enjoyable game. The hardcore PvPrs are the minority, but they are especially welcome here. However if the rest of the Eve population splits, because nobody loves them, game over. You can sheer a sheep many times. You can only kill it once. -Gyvate The Sailing Man Vive elNorte No, you don't seem to understand. You are making assumptions not based on facts. People have been predicting doom and gloom for EVE on account of its PVP system since I joined the game 2 years ago and probably long before them. The simple fact of the matter is that EVE continues to grow. Obviously CCP are doing something right. Changing empire to a total safety zone would alienate a very key group of players who have supported this game through thick and thin. Learn to defend your self, or risk being dominated. On the empire-only side, there are many ways to defend your activities and assets without the need for shooting other players. AS the size of an organisation and its assets grow, you will need an equivalent fighting force to protect it, because otherwise someone will take it all away from you, for their own amusement or profit. That is EVE, as has already been said, its a brutal universe out there, and no one is going to protect you but you. I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay.
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:23:00 - [123] Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Plucking arbitrary figures out of thin air does not make for a convincing argument.
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:27:00 - [124] Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Oooh...I've been looking for stats like that since I started now. Where did you find that info?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:41:00 - [125] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 12:38:33 Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? i couldnt be bothered reading 4 pages of dribble so if no one has already said it STFU noob, go elsewhere. Why do idiots like you post in a thread when you don't have the reading comprehension and/or desire to read the damn thread? We don't give a sh!t what your opinion is if you can't even be bothered to read the damn thread. You're the one that needs to STFU... Building the homestead
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:41:00 - [126] Does it matter ? the subscriber rate goes up, based on what Eve is NOW. Wether those subscribers are new or extyensions of existing ones does not matter, they pay, ccp receive, both are happy. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Brian Ballbag	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:42:00 - [127] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Plucking arbitrary figures out of thin air does not make for a convincing argument. Guess what, you will never know the real stats, because CCP won't tell you and if they attempt to tell you and you believe them then LMAO! I can hardly think of a person that has only one account. I can think of many who have 2, some who have 3, even one who has 9. If you think growth is not substantially growth in alts, which are more useful/required in this game than any other, then you need to get a clue. Lousy metagamers use more than one account,its them that needs to get a clue, and a life for that matter.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:44:00 - [128] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 12:43:25 Originally by: Rod Blaine Does it matter ? the subscriber rate goes up, based on what Eve is NOW. Wether those subscribers are new or extyensions of existing ones does not matter, they pay, ccp receive, both are happy. I think it does matter in some way. An extension of an old vet is far different than a new player to EVE who sticks around. Big difference IMO... Quote: Lousy metagamers use more than one account,its them that needs to get a clue, and a life for that matter. LOL, ok Mr. I have a life, lol... Building the homestead
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:50:00 - [129] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 12:38:33 Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? i couldnt be bothered reading 4 pages of dribble so if no one has already said it STFU noob, go elsewhere. Why do idiots like you post in a thread when you don't have the reading comprehension and/or desire to read the damn thread? We don't give a sh!t what your opinion is if you can't even be bothered to read the damn thread. You're the one that needs to STFU... right so im the idiot for loving eve for what it is and telling the ** to stfu cause he would rather play a single player game with save/load. if ppl dont like it, they leave, simple, but dont come in here complaining about what eve has been since its launch expecting sympathy, and after the first 3 or so posts about comparing this to Wow and actualyl seeing ppl AGREEING?!?!? with him, i thought i would save myself the trauma of reading more ***ing.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:52:00 - [130] Originally by: Rod Blaine Does it matter ? the subscriber rate goes up, based on what Eve is NOW. Wether those subscribers are new or extyensions of existing ones does not matter, they pay, ccp receive, both are happy. Actually in the context of the OP it doesn't matter at all. It's just that someone always brings up "subscriber numbers are growing!" as a justification for absolutely everything and "subscriber numbers would grow even more if...!" and "subscriber numbers will fall when....!".. it doesn't actually mean any particular "thing" and subscriber numbers are related at all. However, one thing is for sure: the kind of people in-game are most definately the kind of people who like playing this game. And more people who like playing this game are continuing to play it . Whether that is good or bad is a value judgement. Personally I think it's bad but thats just an opinion. More particularly, because I value honour, fairness, creativity and building I am not inclined to support playstyles like PA and the kind of player they attract into the game. I don't even think it's "good for eve", "is what makes eve what it is" - I believe Eve is what it is despite players like this, not because of them.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:52:00 - [131] Not only empire wars are CORRECT as they are now. As should be enforced players to leave NPC corps. Everyone after 2 moths playing should be passive of war declaration. that is the game. Find friends you you cant fight alone. 90% of players was never war declared. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [132] Originally by: Ilea Celentay Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... No, I said "Assume there was no non-consensual pvp" In that case opton 4 is no option...which I mentioned... F4T4L - Recruitment and Corp Charter
Cyrano Tyranus	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [133] Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters
Noluck Ned FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [134] Originally by: Ilea Celentay Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... No, I said "Assume there was no non-consensual pvp" In that case opton 4 is no option...which I mentioned... F4T4L - Recruitment and Corp Charter
Cyrano Tyranus	Posted - 2007.01.16 12:56:00 - [135] Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:02:00 - [136] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. Or, to really annoy them.. Log in in the morning, go to work, and let them camp you in the station all day waiting for you to undock..
Rabb Darktide Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:02:00 - [137] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. Or, to really annoy them.. Log in in the morning, go to work, and let them camp you in the station all day waiting for you to undock..
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:03:00 - [138] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters there is also 1.leave the game or 2.deal with it
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:03:00 - [139] Originally by: Cyrano Tyranus Just make sure all your Corp CEO is an ALT (and some others who are Alts as well) then you can all leave the Corp and do you own things (this will Put you back into a Noob corp) dont log in any Alts for a Couple of days and let the corp who wardeced you continue to spend Isk after Isk on wardeccing a corp which they cant hit/find. I dont know how much this would cost the Wardeccing Company but it would stop them attacking you as you will now be in a noob corp so they cant get at you So your CEO = Alt Top Corp Officers (roles)= Alt Rank and File Corp members = Main Characters there is also 1.leave the game or 2.deal with it
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:11:00 - [140] Quote: right so im the idiot for loving eve for what it is and telling the ** to stfu cause he would rather play a single player game with save/load. if ppl dont like it, they leave, simple, but dont come in here complaining about what eve has been since its launch expecting sympathy, and after the first 3 or so posts about comparing this to Wow and actualyl seeing ppl AGREEING?!?!? with him, i thought i would save myself the trauma of reading more ***ing. If someone does not have the stomach for PvP, you tell them to leave the game, fine... If you don't have the stomach for these threads, then leave, STFU... Fair enough right? Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:11:00 - [141] Quote: right so im the idiot for loving eve for what it is and telling the ** to stfu cause he would rather play a single player game with save/load. if ppl dont like it, they leave, simple, but dont come in here complaining about what eve has been since its launch expecting sympathy, and after the first 3 or so posts about comparing this to Wow and actualyl seeing ppl AGREEING?!?!? with him, i thought i would save myself the trauma of reading more ***ing. If someone does not have the stomach for PvP, you tell them to leave the game, fine... If you don't have the stomach for these threads, then leave, STFU... Fair enough right? Building the homestead
Wotar	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:20:00 - [142] OP: stop trolling
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:26:00 - [143] Edited by: Nev Clavain on 16/01/2007 13:23:40 Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: BurnHard I think you should divide that growth by 2, because half of it consists of second, third, forth accounts and half of that other half are people coming in to farm it and sell their wares on e-bay. Plucking arbitrary figures out of thin air does not make for a convincing argument. Guess what, you will never know the real stats, because CCP won't tell you and if they attempt to tell you and you believe them then LMAO! I can hardly think of a person that has only one account. I can think of many who have 2, some who have 3, even one who has 9. If you think growth is not substantially growth in alts, which are more useful/required in this game than any other, then you need to get a clue. I know literally hundreds of people with one account. Sure they may be lying to conceal the identities of other accounts. You however admit yourself that we aren't ever going to know for sure, and then proceed to tell me how it is. Defeating your own argument ftl. In any case if you actually read the post I was responding to in order to get some context for what I was saying before humping my leg like a horny dog, you'll see that where the growth comes from is largely irrelevant. My post on this matter was in response to yet another 'EVE is dying because of non-consentual PvP' post. The fact that EVE is growing refutes this. Where the growth comes from is irrelevant. If the game appeals to its niche market enough that they want 2 or 3 accounts, then it is doing great financially speaking, just as well as if it attracts new people. Now try not to take it personally this time posting things like 'you need to get a clue.' Or you can keep plucking figures out of thin air.... edit: oh i see you already answered your own problem, yes it is a matter of context. Well congratulations.
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:27:00 - [144] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Getting griefed/ganked by someone in a battleship when you are in a hauler is not PVP! Isn't that how you got your Vaga BPO, I'm pretty sure it is. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:29:00 - [145] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Boris2k Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:32:00 - [146] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots From Honour	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:35:00 - [147] Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method. QFT. It's the most time honoured method of diplomacy. If someone disagrees with you, hit him over the head with a big stick until he does. Rinse and repeat.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:40:00 - [148] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Fair enough. If this is the case I should be able to join any Caldari NPC Corporation at will. I'm currently stuck in "Caldari Provisions" Work your factions with the NPC corp of choice. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:40:00 - [149] I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I Quit corporations. One was taxing me too much and wanting me to be a meat shield and pay for all my own stuff while buying tech II items at very close to market average. The other was draining my mission running income and basically not helping when I needed it. They were liabilities so I dropped them to build my mission runner character solo. No taxes! You are not forced by the game mechanics to endure a pvp situation in high sec, apart from suicide gankers, which for 99% of the time are easily couterable by transporting valuable items in high hitpoint ships tanked to the max, which is viable now with warp to 0. You can also hide valuable items, I recently took a best ingame mod to put up on contract in Jita by actually fitting it to the ship instead of putting it in the cargo hold (not that most suicide gankers have a chance of taking down a pith shield booster/amp equipped CNR...). And if you stay in a busy system the chances of running into griefers are reduced, because fellow mission runners will identify them for you and put the word out. Much the same principle applies for high sec mining. So this thread is a storm in a teacup to be honest. Yes, you will be forced into non consentual pvp once in a blue moon, but if you play your cards right it will be just another minor expense. Having a high profile industrialist corp with no pvp protection wing is a bad idea. If you want to make something like that at the very least join one of the bigger alliances for protection. If you can't beat them (and you can't if you don't have any guns...), join them. Or make it covert, you do not actually need a corp structure to have a de facto corp, and a de facto corp with your friends reduces a ton of risk. The very intention of corporations in eve is to make players visible targets. The "noob corp problem" is not a problem, it is pvp players trying to get generally more sucessfull players than they are (from a isk perspective) out into the open to make them targets and steal their hard earned money. Devil's in the details. RtoZ
Malicia Skirj	Posted - 2007.01.16 13:42:00 - [150] Originally by: Boris2k the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method. Uh..."Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin Sorry...I just couldn't resist. Foundation series flashbacks.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:14:00 - [151] Originally by: Necronomicon Eve is a PVP based game, any attempt by CCP to diminish the pvp element would be suicidal. QFT. The OP should quit whining about the game being too hard and learn to play. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:15:00 - [152] Originally by: RtoZ I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I'll stop you there, because there's one thing that I don't understand. You don't like non-consensual PvP, because you think that it will hinder your progress towards a big shiny ship. But what's the point of having a big, shiny ship if you're not going to use it in challenging situations? Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:15:00 - [153] Originally by: Raivi EvE is un-consented (as you put it) pvp. Welcome to EvE. Wrong. You obviously do not understand the game. Eve is whatever the Eve player want it to be when he or she logs on.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:16:00 - [154] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: RtoZ I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I'll stop you there, because there's one thing that I don't understand. You don't like non-consensual PvP, because you think that it will hinder your progress towards a big shiny ship. But what's the point of having a big, shiny ship if you're not going to use it in challenging situations? lvl 4 missions are not challenging? Building the homestead
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:20:00 - [155] Originally by: Malicia Skirj Uh..."Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin Sorry...I just couldn't resist. Foundation series flashbacks. A tip of the hat to you, fellow Foundation fan! You beat me to it!
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:20:00 - [156] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 16/01/2007 14:19:21 Originally by: Chimu Quien Originally by: Raivi EvE is un-consented (as you put it) pvp. Welcome to EvE. Wrong. You obviously do not understand the game. Eve is whatever the Eve player want it to be when he or she logs on. Man, everything meaningful in Eve involves doing ** to someone else or doing it before they do. Eve is a competitive game. If you choose to ignore the competitive nature of Eve, you deserve everything you get. Originally by:** Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:25:00 - [157] Originally by: Kagura Nikon ... As should be enforced players to leave NPC corps. Everyone after 2 moths playing should be passive of war declaration. that is the game. Find friends you you cant fight alone. 90% of players was never war declared. Why should players be forced to leave NPC corps? Are you saying that people should be forced to play your way or no way?
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:32:00 - [158] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 16/01/2007 14:19:21 Man, everything meaningful in Eve involves doing **** to someone else or doing it before they do. Eve is a competitive game. If you choose to ignore the competitive nature of Eve, you deserve everything you get. Sorry to disappoint you, but I am having a wonderful time doing exactly what I want to do, when I want to do it. You talk about this game as if it's some huge, serious, life altering struggle. It's not. It's just a game. Having fun is 'meaningful' to me. Yes, you are right, I deserve everything I'm getting, and what I'm getting is fun and relaxation, free from the likes of too-much-coffee types like you.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:33:00 - [159] How I use my ships is my business, afaik. People would like to see expensive ships in vulnerable situations, of that I am sure, but some of the players like me, who are designated carebears, are more interested in building up some sort of stable income for the long term. What you guys need to understand, to put an end to your moronic pvp diatribes, is that EVE is a game based on character interaction on all levels. Not just combat, but trade, missions, mining and industry. Every one of them is as relevant to the face of the game as the other. And personally I find it more satisfying to know I've built myself up to a point where I am worth 10 digits and can afford my rare losses without compromising my long term plans than to find myself sitting in some low sec gate camp waiting for an easy target, and having to grovel to some ceo to get replacement for my losses, which is what a significant portion of EVE pvp is. In the end most of the carebear bashing on this forum comes down to spaceship envy. More inteligent players realize that the pvp aspect of eve is not self sustaining. So, to all you rabid pvp'ers, settle down and grow up. I am pretty sure all the more well known players in EVE realize the importance of the infrastructure behind their empires, even if the trigger happy idiots working for them don't. You want PVP? Wardec some of my pals in BoB, they will be more than happy to comply. I'm sure that will be the "challenge" all of you exault.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:36:00 - [160] Originally by: RtoZ How I use my ships is my business, afaik. People would like to see expensive ships in vulnerable situations, of that I am sure, but some of the players like me, who are designated carebears, are more interested in building up some sort of stable income for the long term. What you guys need to understand, to put an end to your moronic pvp diatribes, is that EVE is a game based on character interaction on all levels. Not just combat, but trade, missions, mining and industry. Every one of them is as relevant to the face of the game as the other. And personally I find it more satisfying to know I've built myself up to a point where I am worth 10 digits and can afford my rare losses without compromising my long term plans than to find myself sitting in some low sec gate camp waiting for an easy target, and having to grovel to some ceo to get replacement for my losses, which is what a significant portion of EVE pvp is. In the end most of the carebear bashing on this forum comes down to spaceship envy. More inteligent players realize that the pvp aspect of eve is not self sustaining. So, to all you rabid pvp'ers, settle down and grow up. I am pretty sure all the more well known players in EVE realize the importance of the infrastructure behind their empires, even if the trigger happy idiots working for them don't. You want PVP? Wardec some of my pals in BoB, they will be more than happy to comply. I'm sure that will be the "challenge" all of you exault. LOL, perfect! Building the homestead
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:39:00 - [161] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: RtoZ I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I'll stop you there, because there's one thing that I don't understand. You don't like non-consensual PvP, because you think that it will hinder your progress towards a big shiny ship. But what's the point of having a big, shiny ship if you're not going to use it in challenging situations? lvl 4 missions are not challenging? not really no
Ilea Celentay Veiled Justice	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:39:00 - [162] Originally by: Noluck Ned Originally by: Ilea Celentay Originally by: Noluck Ned They now have a few options. 1. Move their whole operation to greener pastures(provided any can be found) 2. Disband/merge with the usurper. 3. Quit EVE in disgust. With the current mechanics you missed important option #4... No, I said "Assume there was no non-consensual pvp" In that case option 4 is no option...which I mentioned... Ops, my mistake, I miss read... either way I think we had the same point. as for: Originally by: Chimu Quien Originally by: Kagura Nikon ... As should be enforced players to leave NPC corps. Everyone after 2 moths playing should be passive of war declaration. that is the game. Find friends you you cant fight alone. 90% of players was never war declared. Why should players be forced to leave NPC corps? Are you saying that people should be forced to play your way or no way? Being forced out of a NPC corp doesn't mean that your game is any different. Not all corps get a war dec, and if you REALLY don't want to fight PvP then there are many ways to avoid it without being in a newbie corp. For the best part if people where forced out of Newbie corps then I believe there will be a lot more Freelance style corps; to some extant that's all the NPC Corps are. A corp with No taxes is no different then a NPC corp but you run the risk of a war, which isn't a big risk anyway. - Faction\|Tech1 Ship Info \|\| Rig Factory
Rodrigo Valon Gallente Synergy Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:40:00 - [163] Could someone please just post the devblog or article where Ouever states that non-consensual PvP will always be part of the game? Or maybe the one where he states that even 1.0 is not meant to be totally safe? I'd do it myself, but I'm at work, and the only place I remember seeing it is some guy's sig.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:41:00 - [164] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 14:38:03 Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: RtoZ I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I'll stop you there, because there's one thing that I don't understand. You don't like non-consensual PvP, because you think that it will hinder your progress towards a big shiny ship. But what's the point of having a big, shiny ship if you're not going to use it in challenging situations? lvl 4 missions are not challenging? not really no For everyone in the game? Building the homestead
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:42:00 - [165] Originally by: RtoZ How I use my ships is my business, afaik. sure it is, and pvpers doing there thing is their business The reason threads like this get such a strong response is non-combatants are asking CCP to change the game in their favour, so they can do their thing without risk of interference from PVPers doing their thing. That is just not how it is meant to be. Use your ship how you like, but just don't ask for the game to be changed when someone else, using his ship how he likes, impinges upon your bubble - which is exctly what the OP was dong.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:42:00 - [166] Originally by: Rodrigo Valon Could someone please just post the devblog or article where Ouever states that non-consensual PvP will always be part of the game? Or maybe the one where he states that even 1.0 is not meant to be totally safe? I'd do it myself, but I'm at work, and the only place I remember seeing it is some guy's sig. Why not just ignore this thread, then you don't have to worry about it... Building the homestead
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:44:00 - [167] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? In Eve a capsule-pilot corporation is actually more akin to a semi-sovereign entity, and as such is 'above' the protection of Concord. Capsule-pilot corporations have their own tax, their own rules (you are free to kill your own if you so wish) and operate outside of the jurisdiction of the states/empires. In the state-run corporations you are bound to the normal rules, you donÆt pay tax, you canÆt shoot a fellow corporation-member in the face without consequences, but then you are protected from corporate aggressors by virtue of being part of that state/faction. In short, if you form an independent corporation you are saying ôhey! IÆm ready to face the big-wide world!...ö û if you canÆt take the heat, get out of the kitchen. ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Nev Clavain Wise Guys Rogue Method Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:51:00 - [168] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 14:38:03 Originally by: Nev Clavain Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: RtoZ I got Irked with the possibility of being dragged into a non consentual corp war pvp situation which would eat my income and slow down my progress (I want big shiny...), so here is what I did: I'll stop you there, because there's one thing that I don't understand. You don't like non-consensual PvP, because you think that it will hinder your progress towards a big shiny ship. But what's the point of having a big, shiny ship if you're not going to use it in challenging situations? lvl 4 missions are not challenging? not really no For everyone in the game? IN my opinion playing against a computer generated foe (except in extreme cases like chess supercomputers) is never really that challenging. It is all linear, and once you have the beating of it, you will beat it everytime. The same is not true of human opponents.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:56:00 - [169] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 14:52:43 Quote: IN my opinion playing against a computer generated foe (except in extreme cases like chess supercomputers) is never really that challenging. It is all linear, and once you have the beating of it, you will beat it everytime. The same is not true of human opponents. True, but that's why content gets updated... But to say they are not challenging for everyone because you don't find them challenging, is like me saying ALL PvP'ers are griefers... I'm sure you would not agree with that... Face the facts, not everyone plays EVE for PvP combat, not even 50% play for that... Building the homestead
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:56:00 - [170] Originally by: Ilea Celentay Being forced out of a NPC corp doesn't mean that your game is any different. Not all corps get a war dec, and if you REALLY don't want to fight PvP then there are many ways to avoid it without being in a newbie corp. For the best part if people where forced out of Newbie corps then I believe there will be a lot more Freelance style corps... Uh, no thanks. If we're going to change the rules for people who prefer NPC corps because they don't want to fight, then we should change the rules for pvp types. People should not be forced to do anything. Player corps can be more trouble than they're worth. I personally don't like being told when to log on and what to do when I log on. I like to play solo. That's my business, and nobody else's. I went through the nonsense of player corps with another character. Except for very rare cases it's more trouble than it's worth.
Barry Cantona Gallente Elite Angels Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.01.16 14:58:00 - [171] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? you either bought you char on ebay or didnt notice all the time that you were playing that EVE is a PVP game, you do not have to aggree to pvp. If you dont want unconsensual pvp this is not the game for you.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:13:00 - [172] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 16/01/2007 15:11:04 Originally by: Chimu Quien Sorry to disappoint you, but I am having a wonderful time doing exactly what I want to do, when I want to do it. You talk about this game as if it's some huge, serious, life altering struggle. It's not. It's just a game. You appear to be the one that's disappointed. Disappointed that you can't run a corp in a cosy corner and have everyone else leave you alone. You talk about the game like it's a round of crazy golf with a few mates. It's not. It's a competitive game. Originally by: Chimu Quien Having fun is 'meaningful' to me. Yes, you are right, I deserve everything I'm getting, and what I'm getting is fun and relaxation, free from the likes of too-much-coffee types like you. Competition at every level is what makes the game fun and meaningful for the people that enjoy it the way it was designed to be enjoyed. You will never be free from the likes of me. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Blindscythe	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:22:00 - [173] Sorry if this has already been said, I kinda skirted through the thread in a haze of disbelief. Anyway, in response to the OP and those whom are of the same view; Eve was created with a certain direction. The direction is that determined by CCP. The players buy the game, because it holds true to their own tastes,and what they see as engaging gameplay. To wish something to change so radically because you have bought into something which is not of your taste, is uncalled for. Because you may like space ships, high tech weaponry and stars, but there lacks a PvE MMO containing all of these that is 'satisfactory' enough for your tastes, doesn't mean that Eve is 'broken'. my 0.02isk
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:23:00 - [174] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds You appear to be the one that's disappointed. Disappointed that you can't run a corp in a cosy corner and have everyone else leave you alone. You talk about the game like it's a round of crazy golf with a few mates. It's not. It's a competitive game. Originally by: Chimu Quien Having fun is 'meaningful' to me. Yes, you are right, I deserve everything I'm getting, and what I'm getting is fun and relaxation, free from the likes of too-much-coffee types like you. Competition at every level is what makes the game fun and meaningful for the people that enjoy it the way it was designed to be enjoyed. You will never be free from the likes of me. Disappointed? Why? I do what I want, and I never have problems with the likes of you. Your definition of 'fun and meaningful' is just that: your definition. Nothing more. And as such it's utterly irrelevant to me. 'People that enjoy it the way it was designed to be enjoyed.' When I read stuff like that I just laugh. Sorry, pal, I'm not enjoying the game the way you think I should, and it's getting under your skin. I'm enjoying it my way, and you (and people who think like you) are free to do the same. I could not possibly care less about nerfing pvp. It's very easy to just avoid it. Surprise! Not everyone in the world sees Eve the way you do. And you can't do a single thing about it. Eve, to me, is what I do when I log on to Eve. It's none of your business. If you would like to try to make it your business, feel free to camp gates in lo-sec for hours at a time or suicide Bantams in Empire. I won't be anywhere near wherever you are.
Blindscythe	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:30:00 - [175] As a follow on to my post i could probably summarise my personal view a lot better: Eve is like a book or a film. You have paid your money for it, but you will not necessarily like it. If you do like it, there's every chance you'll buy the other books from that Author, or watch the same films by that Director. And if you don't like it, then you have lost very little but have learnt a great deal.
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:40:00 - [176] I am not asking for the game to be changed, if anything I would add MORE pvp possibilities, like a high sec duel mode, in interface player tournies and deathmatches, gang to gang challenges, ingame combat betting, ie, a little bit of everything for everybody, EVE is a complex enough environment for it to work. I don't even think Suicide ganking is an exploit. Anything goes as far as I am concerned, it is just a game. In fact, apart from general buggyness, the one thing which annoys me in EVE gameplay is the T2 lottery and scarcity of BPO's, which make the rich richer and restrict the availability of T2 to those who would actually use it. Allthough tbh I can afford whichever tech II module I fancy, I do consider the way the T2 market is setup as an aberration of the equal opportunity principle. IMO they should be unlimited, given out as agent offers much like faction ships, and they should be avaluated by the game engine, so the more lucrative T2 BPO's are harder to get. But even this unjustice is a mirror of life I suppose, and it is perfectly possible to make enough money to buy a Tech II BPO without actually being an industrialist... Just don't expect me to kiss PVP ass just because occasionally you shoot someone. As far as EVE gameplay is concerned and imo PVP is just one of many possible careers. Hell, there are even careers inside PVP. And if someday, just hypothetically, in the mid to long term I walk all over you with a mothership, don't anyone complain I have too much money, mkay? And about the level 4 missions: Any PVP dude should try working his way up to them solo. You have no idea how much hard work, skills and effort it takes to build you're run of the mill profession level 4 CNR mission runner. Once you get up there, sure, things get easier, but by no means is it easier than sitting at a gate or hunting for targets in lowsec. The number of hours, skills, isk investment (160m for political and military connections alone) is huge. I am nowhere near the top of the performance bracket in pve, and allready my ship setup is hitting 2.3b isk. I fully expect it to hit 4b+ isk once I add an officer NOS and faction shield hardeners plus 3 rigs. And all that can blow up with something as trivial as a door bell and a distraction. And this will only make 100m isk a day, so don't think we roll in money with no effort. Sure, we do get rich, but it takes work. So please, when criticizing the PVE folks, have a clue. For what it's worth, I do realize it takes skill to PVP in EVE, despite my usually critical tone, and even more skill to do it and actually MAKE money.

Deckard Bishop Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:48:00 - [177] cleaned i have cleaned out the nasty trolling flamy bits.... please stay on topic. ta. forum rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website!

Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 15:54:00 - [178] Originally by: Chimu Quien Disappointed? Why? I do what I want, and I never have problems with the likes of you. Your definition of 'fun and meaningful' is just that: your definition. Nothing more. And as such it's utterly irrelevant to me. 'People that enjoy it the way it was designed to be enjoyed.' When I read stuff like that I just laugh. Sorry, pal, I'm not enjoying the game the way you think I should, and it's getting under your skin. I'm enjoying it my way, and you (and people who think like you) are free to do the same. I could not possibly care less about nerfing pvp. It's very easy to just avoid it. Surprise! Not everyone in the world sees Eve the way you do. And you can't do a single thing about it. Eve, to me, is what I do when I log on to Eve. It's none of your business. If you would like to try to make it your business, feel free to camp gates in lo-sec for hours at a time or suicide Bantams in Empire. I won't be anywhere near wherever you are. You don't get it. Everything you do impacts other players. You cannot play in Eve in isolation. That is the way the game was designed. You buy stuff from NPC's, you create a price spike that affects other players. Competitve design. You run missions, you affect the rate of pay for other players who run the same missions. That's right, the mission rate of pay is designed to be variable to improve competition too. Everything in Eve is designed with a competitive angle, so suck it up or play something else. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:40:00 - [179] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds You don't get it. Everything you do impacts other players. You cannot play in Eve in isolation. That is the way the game was designed. You buy stuff from NPC's, you create a price spike that affects other players. Competitve design. You run missions, you affect the rate of pay for other players who run the same missions. That's right, the mission rate of pay is designed to be variable to improve competition too. Everything in Eve is designed with a competitive angle, so suck it up or play something else. Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. Whether you like it or not, Eve can be played as a de-facto solo game because it is what its players make it. Why does that bother you? Why are you telling me to think the way you do or play something else? I don't feel like playing something else. The game lets me play the way I want to play. Non-consenting pvp is not my thing, and my characters manage to avoid it. 'Competition,' if that means grinding away to have the best ship, is not my thing. I have no problem with your play style. I'm not telling you to accept my ideas or leave. Why do you have a problem with mine? People who don't think their corp should be subjected to non-consenting war have a valid point. I don't expect or necessarily want the game to be changed to reflect their desires, but their opinions are valid ones and its just plain rude to keep screaming at them 'adapt or get out!!!' There is room in Eve for everybody.
smashsmash	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:48:00 - [180] i don't have anything useful to add. this thread is now about girls
Asinia Au	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:48:00 - [181] No, you don't have to play something else. If you enjoy doing what you do, then you should do it. Just be aware, there are risks involved in ANYTHING you do in EVE. The best you can hope for is to take steps to mitigate that risk. You can do this solo to some extent, but to a greater extent as part of a group. The choice is yours.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 16:57:00 - [182] Edited by: Tommy TenKreds on 16/01/2007 17:03:40 Originally by: Chimu Quien Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. You can't do one of those things without affecting other players. Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike. Originally by: Chimu Quien Whether you like it or not, Eve can be played as a de-facto solo game because it is what its players make it. This isn't about solo play, it's about non-consentual player combat. Originally by: Chimu Quien Why does that bother you? Why are you telling me to think the way you do or play something else? I don't feel like playing something else. It doesn't bother me. I am happy with the way Eve is designed to be played. You're the one whining for easier gameplay. Originally by: Chimu Quien The game lets me play the way I want to play. No, it doesn't. It allows for non-consentual player combat. Originally by: Chimu Quien Non-consenting pvp is not my thing, and my characters manage to avoid it. Avoiding it is one possible response. It is still interaction. You still realise the risk of non-consenting pvp exists. That means you understand the nature of Eve and agree to play on those terms. Originally by: Chimu Quien 'Competition,' if that means grinding away to have the best ship, is not my thing. I have no problem with your play style. I'm not telling you to accept my ideas or leave. Why do you have a problem with mine? I don't. You have a problem with the game mechanics that were designed to allow non-consentual pvp. Originally by: Chimu Quien People who don't think their corp should be subjected to non-consenting war have a valid point. No they don't. It's a competitive game by design. Originally by: Chimu Quien I don't expect or necessarily want the game to be changed to reflect their desires, but their opinions are valid ones and its just plain rude to keep screaming at them 'adapt or get out!!!' There is room in Eve for everybody. There is room in Eve for everybody that understands the game. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:05:00 - [183] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Chimu Quien Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. You can't do one of those things without affecting other players. Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike. There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Building the homestead
Asinia Au	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:08:00 - [184] Until somebody decides to stop them...
Alowishus Shadow Company Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:08:00 - [185] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? Nobody is forcing you to pay the fees. The way Eve works is pretty clearly explained and a trial is offered. If you don't like it don't buy it. What you're doing is buying what is clearly an apple and then complaining that it's not an orange. The rest of us understood we bought an apple and are happy with it. Go away.
Asinia Au	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:08:00 - [186] Until somebody decides to stop them...
Alowishus Shadow Company Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:08:00 - [187] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire We pay the same subscription fees so why must we be killed when we do not want to? Nobody is forcing you to pay the fees. The way Eve works is pretty clearly explained and a trial is offered. If you don't like it don't buy it. What you're doing is buying what is clearly an apple and then complaining that it's not an orange. The rest of us understood we bought an apple and are happy with it. Go away.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:10:00 - [188] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Chimu Quien Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. You can't do one of those things without affecting other players. Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike. There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Are they? You should put that to the next bunch of pvp'ers who come on here to whine about the cost of T2 fittings. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:10:00 - [189] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Chimu Quien Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. You can't do one of those things without affecting other players. Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike. There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Are they? You should put that to the next bunch of pvp'ers who come on here to whine about the cost of T2 fittings. Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:12:00 - [190] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Chimu Quien Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. You can't do one of those things without affecting other players. Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike. There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Are they? You should put that to the next bunch of pvp'ers who come on here to whine about the cost of T2 fittings. Then those PvP'ers are in the wrong alliance Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:12:00 - [191] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Chimu Quien Of course I get it. The kind of solo play that I am referring to is not being involved in pvp combat. Buying and selling things, mining, running missions, these are things I enjoy doing. And I can do them without directly interacting with other players. You can't do one of those things without affecting other players. Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike. There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Are they? You should put that to the next bunch of pvp'ers who come on here to whine about the cost of T2 fittings. Then those PvP'ers are in the wrong alliance Building the homestead
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:16:00 - [192] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work. Listen ****face the current system has worked fine for 3 years and still does.Get over your whining. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
xeom Veto.	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:16:00 - [193] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work. Listen ****face the current system has worked fine for 3 years and still does.Get over your whining. --- "Those nuclear missiles are for domestic heating." - Scagga
Apophis Omega Amarr M'8'S	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:17:00 - [194] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: EnglishBob I'll give you three posts before someone mentions WoW. I don't care for WoW either, but as a Caldari citizen with high Caldari faction, I should be able to be provided with Concord protection AT LEAST in 0.5 space and above. What stops this from doing what the so called "Privateers" from cycling corps in and out of their alliance, so they can gank other, smaller, corporations at will? This is a really bad mechanism, and it has to change. Some free advice Quit eve now, I MEAN NOW. If you don't like it, leave eve. No one will change this, you will be flamed. This is how eve was meant to be. You are avoiding PVP by hiding in a noob corp. You are the type of person who whines when he loses his mining barge in 0.0 because the PVP wasn't consentual. Just quit eve, no really, please do. Recruiting
Apophis Omega Amarr M'8'S	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:17:00 - [195] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: EnglishBob I'll give you three posts before someone mentions WoW. I don't care for WoW either, but as a Caldari citizen with high Caldari faction, I should be able to be provided with Concord protection AT LEAST in 0.5 space and above. What stops this from doing what the so called "Privateers" from cycling corps in and out of their alliance, so they can gank other, smaller, corporations at will? This is a really bad mechanism, and it has to change. Some free advice Quit eve now, I MEAN NOW. If you don't like it, leave eve. No one will change this, you will be flamed. This is how eve was meant to be. You are avoiding PVP by hiding in a noob corp. You are the type of person who whines when he loses his mining barge in 0.0 because the PVP wasn't consentual. Just quit eve, no really, please do. Recruiting
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:18:00 - [196] Originally by: DarkMatter There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Yes, because as we all know, pirates never have to use the market. They get all their ships from CCP. /Ki
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:18:00 - [197] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work. Listen ****face the current system has worked fine for 3 years and still does.Get over your whining. I just got a forum warning for one of my posts that were like yours, I'd expact an email soon dude.. Building the homestead
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:18:00 - [198] Originally by: DarkMatter There are many who play combat PvP only in EVE, they are allowed to ignore the other forms of PvP just fine and dandy... Yes, because as we all know, pirates never have to use the market. They get all their ships from CCP. /Ki
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:18:00 - [199] Edited by: DarkMatter on 16/01/2007 17:16:48 Originally by: xeom Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work. Listen ****face the current system has worked fine for 3 years and still does.Get over your whining. I just got a forum warning for one of my posts that was like yours, I'd expact an email soon dude.. Building the homestead
Lance Hawke Beyond Divinity Inc Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:22:00 - [200] Good joke, I laughed.
Jet Collins Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:22:00 - [201] Currently your sec stats does not have much affect unless it is really low. I would be interesting if in high sec Concord would assist the Corp that has the higher sec status. With in that corp every member that got inganged by an enemy would get assistance from concord depending on there indiviual sec status. So if you have a sec status on 1.0 or higher you would get a concord fig as a wing man engaging the target that engaged you. If you sec status is 5.0 or higher you get a Concord BS as a wing man :). That could make corp wars in Empire interesting :) Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact me in game for deatails about the corp. Mostly a PvE corp, with Jump clones avaiale in Empire and 0.0.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:24:00 - [202] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? Go play patty cake in your impairor. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:26:00 - [203] Originally by: DarkFenix Originally by: Boris2k Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 16/01/2007 13:26:40 Non-consensual PvP is one of the best things about Eve. Just think, without it you couldn't: * Use the threat of violence to stop people mining out your favourite asteroid belt * Use the threat of violence to stop people undercutting your prices * Sell your goods to as many people because there would be less demand for ships and modules. the threat of, or violence itself has solved more problems in the world than any other method. QFT. It's the most time honoured method of diplomacy. If someone disagrees with you, hit him over the head with a big stick until he does. Rinse and repeat. I lol'd Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Captain Hudson Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:38:00 - [204] when corps are war decced cant they just surrender? Originally by: SPQRMocton We would love to have a bunch of teenage pimple boys with no real pvp ability to fil our corpse yards
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.16 17:46:00 - [205] Originally by: Captain Hudson when corps are war decced cant they just surrender? I've been meaning to ask about this (but some one hates me making forum posts ) what happens when a corp surrenders? Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Madcat Adams UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:02:00 - [206] This is a bad idea, there are npc corps for those who do not wish to participate in corp warefare. If they could not be war dec'd then empire corps could raid into low sec with no fear of retaliation. A small corp has little concern for being attacked, just disband and reform up under a new name, and the attacking corp is out the cash with no one to attack. Only large corps that need to defend their name are necessarly affected, and they should be able to fight back. Most likely provoked the war in the first place. The views expressed in this post are my own opinion, not those of my corp. Usueful Eve information Aimez- "oh ****, this is
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:06:00 - [207] Originally by: Madcat Adams A small corp has little concern for being attacked, just disband and reform up under a new name AFIAK that is an exploit Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Buster Gonads	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:10:00 - [208] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Madcat Adams A small corp has little concern for being attacked, just disband and reform up under a new name AFIAK that is an exploit Yes, I've heard it described as that a few times. Just goes to show how messed up the "rules" of conduct are in Eve. I mean what it boils down to is forcing a group of players to either stay docked (not play) or get banned, that is in scenarios where they aren't inclined to fight.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:12:00 - [209] Originally by: Buster Gonads Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Madcat Adams A small corp has little concern for being attacked, just disband and reform up under a new name AFIAK that is an exploit Yes, I've heard it described as that a few times. Just goes to show how messed up the "rules" of conduct are in Eve. I mean what it boils down to is forcing a group of players to either stay docked (not play) or get banned, that is in scenarios where they aren't inclined to fight. Pretty much... It's CCP's way of weeding out those who don't want to PvP but want to be in PC corps... The ones who do stay are NPC mission runners, and the PK'ers want them to be kicked out of their NPC corps after 3 months Building the homestead
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:41:00 - [210] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Buster Gonads Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Madcat Adams A small corp has little concern for being attacked, just disband and reform up under a new name AFIAK that is an exploit Yes, I've heard it described as that a few times. Just goes to show how messed up the "rules" of conduct are in Eve. I mean what it boils down to is forcing a group of players to either stay docked (not play) or get banned, that is in scenarios where they aren't inclined to fight. Pretty much... It's CCP's way of weeding out those who don't want to PvP but want to be in PC corps... The ones who do stay are NPC mission runners, and the PK'ers want them to be kicked out of their NPC corps after 3 months Now now PK'er and griefer are terms that have no place in eve as I don't know any one who just kills to get glee at others despair Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
Anatolius Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:45:00 - [211] Originally by: Buster Gonads Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Madcat Adams A small corp has little concern for being attacked, just disband and reform up under a new name AFIAK that is an exploit Yes, I've heard it described as that a few times. Just goes to show how messed up the "rules" of conduct are in Eve. I mean what it boils down to is forcing a group of players to either stay docked (not play) or get banned, that is in scenarios where they aren't inclined to fight. I mean, yeah, there's absolutely nothing else you can do but sit in a station. It's not like you can't hop in a cheap frigate and kick some arse or anything - no, that's unpossible. And I hate how all the stargates shut down when you're wardecced, preventing you from moving anywhere else. That really sucks, don't it!? "If God be for us, whom can be against us?"
Zomiaen Gallente Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:46:00 - [212] Edited by: Zomiaen on 16/01/2007 18:42:37 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Captain Hudson when corps are war decced cant they just surrender? I've been meaning to ask about this (but some one hates me making forum posts ) what happens when a corp surrenders? Opens up something similar to a trade window, to give ISK or items to be left alone. On topic, Look in real life, if I'm the leader of a nation I don't go calling the leader of the nation I hate and say "Hey, you mind if we declear war on each other?". War isn't a voluntary thing for the ones being attacked. No reason it should be any other way in EVE. EVEs meant to be a ruthless game, if you can't handle it leave. A favorite qoute of mine from the WoW Forums: "EVE is like the "fishermens friend" of MMO's. If its too hard, you are too weak." _________________________ pirates wear pink! - eris was herrrrrrre
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 18:48:00 - [213] Quote: Now now PK'er and griefer are terms that have no place in eve as I don't know any one who just kills to get glee at others despair LOL, then you don't know too many EVE players... Building the homestead
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:03:00 - [214] Originally by: DarkMatter Quote: Now now PK'er and griefer are terms that have no place in eve as I don't know any one who just kills to get glee at others despair LOL, then you don't know too many EVE players... Ok well in my defense Its a standard response to the use of those words since every act of piracy = me being called a griefer, as if I want to cause them pain when I reality I just want their stuff If every one just came to me and gave me their stuff no one would get shot. Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!?
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:03:00 - [215] Non-consensual PvP is the very heart of eve. Please don't screw with it.
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:04:00 - [216] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Combat is the final word in competitive play. You can't expect to be allowed to compete in the areas you mentioned and then be immune from the parts of competitive gameplay you dislike.. Why not? The so-called 'competition' you talk about is completely transparent to me. I have NEVER been involved in combat with other players. I have never lost a ship. By being careful you CAN be immune to those who want to engage in pvp combat. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds It doesn't bother me. I am happy with the way Eve is designed to be played. You're the one whining for easier gameplay. Huh? I'm not whining for easier gameplay. I'm already playing the way I want to play. I have been doing so for about a year and a half. Obviously you have my posts mixed up with those of others. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Avoiding it is one possible response. It is still interaction. You still realise the risk of non-consenting pvp exists. That means you understand the nature of Eve and agree to play on those terms. Avoiding something and interacting with it are not the same thing. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds You have a problem with the game mechanics that were designed to allow non-consentual pvp. Again, I don't. The person who started this thread does, and while I sympathize with him/her, I personally could not possibly care less. I should point out that with people like you insisting that your way is the only way, there's really no reason for people who play Eve the way I do to ever join a player corp. What's the point? I don't have the biggest ships or the coolest stuff. I have a modest amount of cash. I have never had a T2 anything. So what? My needs are modest. Why bother with a player corp? The war dec system is so arbitrary, you can get war dec'd just for saying something on the forum that somebody doesn't like. There's no logic to the politics. But the game mechanics allow it, so that's that. Maybe that's OK for many players, but a large number of us would rather not get involved. So we don't. A lot of people like you see this as some sort of macho Darwinian struggle that teaches something about real life. It isn't. None of this stuff is real. It's just entertainment. A game. It's nothing more than a pleasant way to pass one's free time. Originally by: Chimu Quien I don't expect or necessarily want the game to be changed to reflect their desires, but their opinions are valid ones and its just plain rude to keep screaming at them 'adapt or get out!!!' There is room in Eve for everybody. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds There is room in Eve for everybody that understands the game. Well, unless you work for CCP and are planning to boot me out of the game or pull the plug on the game entirely, you're wrong. I've been here for a long time, and will continue to play Eve. Oftentimes, when I log on I like to pack a small miner and a small ratting ship into a freighter, and fly off to a faraway system I've never seen before, just to say I've been there. To me, that's worth the price of the subscription. It's a big game universe. Somewhere out there are players who approach the game differently than you. As long as they are not telling you what to do and how to think, why should you care?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:05:00 - [217] Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Non-consensual PvP is the very heart of eve. Please don't screw with it. But it has been tinkered with by the DEV's since release... Building the homestead
Gyvate Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:18:00 - [218] Seems like a lot of people on this forum can't read well, or they simply like to argue. Case and point is I never said PvP or WarDecs are bad. I simply point out that the game changes based on economics. Real world economics. Despite what the "If you don't like PvP, you should quit cause your a wimp" crowd says, everybody has a place in Eve. The risk IS a very important part of the game. The most hardcore carebear has got to feel some blood pumping when traveling through low-sec or unreg. It's an accomplishment to survive out there. That's a good thing. Keeps things fresh even though vast tracts of the game are mega-boring. All that aside, my point remains that this game will change to accomadate the market. If the players begin to bail out in vast numbers (say because BoB WarDecs EVERYONE and has 5,000 players sit in empire ganking haulers for days) you will see Eve change to try and bring in customers. *-Gyvate* The Sailing Man Viva elNorte
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 19:21:00 - [219] Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Non-consensual PvP is the very heart of eve. Please don't screw with it. But it has been tinkered with by the DEV's since release... Very true. This I believe is because there are two mutually exclusive mechanics at play here: (1) the need for safe areas to enable new players to function and grow and (2) the need to stick to the general philosophy of Eve being a PvP game. Of course it's much more complicated than that because you have a financial imperative - which basically means you don't want to lock out those 90% of players who don't enjoy PvP but play MMO's for social contact and PvE. So we end up with having to balance the two together. When one group is in the ascendancy, you need to tinker with the mechanism to bring it back into balance. In terms of a game-play philosophy, it's a pick and mix. A fair way of judging when something is out of balance is to record the frequency of whines, either from one side of the debate or the other. At the moment, I think the whole war-dec mechanism is not working as intended, particularly when you have such large asymmetries in the combat abilities of the pilots on either side. It's essentially a mechanism allowing a 400lb Gorilla to mount a Lemur and steal it's bananas. Moreover, it's basically illegal for the Lemur to run away when it sees the Gorilla approaching. Well, I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound right to me.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.16 20:13:00 - [220] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 16/01/2007 20:15:44 I dunno Personally I kind of enjoy being war-decced by them. I join hunting parties in high sec to hunt them from time to time when I'm bored. Not that it happens much with all that's going on in Geminate right now. But, to be honest, they're really not all that dangerous as long as you use an ounce of common sense when flying in high-sec. It's not like they can put a bubble up to stop you.
Jarling Fang Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:08:00 - [221] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin ...wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. I'm sure Poland was thinking the same thing when the Wehrmact came crashing through their border... or the Americans while Japan was bombing Pearl Harbor Hey, at least EvE gives you 24 hours warning before the shooting starts - be thankful for that much!
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:40:00 - [222] Originally by: BurnHard At the moment, I think the whole war-dec mechanism is not working as intended, particularly when you have such large asymmetries in the combat abilities of the pilots on either side. It's essentially a mechanism allowing a 400lb Gorilla to mount a Lemur and steal it's bananas. Moreover, it's basically illegal for the Lemur to run away when it sees the Gorilla approaching. Well, I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound right to me. How is it illegal for the ~~lemurs~~...uhh, victims of a wardec to run away? Other than disbanding and reforming an identical corp, I can't think of any examples of what you mean. Originally by: BurnHard In terms of a game-play philosophy, it's a pick and mix. A fair way of judging when something is out of balance is to record the frequency of whines... Oh, I don't think so. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:53:00 - [223] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske How is it illegal for the ~~lemurs~~...uhh, victims of a wardec to run away? Other than disbanding and reforming an identical corp, I can't think of any examples of what you mean. Yes, thats what I mean by illegal. Eve is a game all about Gorillas, Lemurs and Bananas.
Commander Sten	Posted - 2007.01.16 22:55:00 - [224] in the end, EVE is a PVP oriented game, your competing with everyone else, no matter what you do, for the most part. if you dont like eve, leave, dont come back, dont try to change eve into your own pathetic version of carebear happy land. on the other hand, if you can deal with adversity, your most welcome.
Arkani Gera The Movement	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:16:00 - [225] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Exactly! The current situation really discourages people from joining newbie helping organizations such as Eve University, that assist new players with learning the game. the main focus of this game is player vs player conflict, (be it in space in ships or in station working the market/production/whatever) introducing new players to one of the facets of the main focus is detrimental to them "learning the game" how? The corp is mother, the corp is father. The little badger that could
Arkani Gera The Movement	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:18:00 - [226] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin I know how to defend myself, but sometimes when I want to do a TRADE RUN in my Badger II, I DO NOT want to deal with pirates in 1.0 space! This is why I pay my Caldari corporate taxes! you pay the taxes to your corporation, not to the state, so why should the state protect you when you're not paying any taxes to them? The corp is mother, the corp is father. The little badger that could
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:21:00 - [227] Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Tsanse Kinske How is it illegal for the ~~lemurs~~...uhh, victims of a wardec to run away? Other than disbanding and reforming an identical corp, I can't think of any examples of what you mean. Yes, thats what I mean by illegal. Be fair about it. That leaves at least 4 other ways to "run away" I can think of that aren't exploits. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:30:00 - [228] Originally by: Chimu Quien Originally by: Malicia Skirj Uh..."Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin Sorry...I just couldn't resist. Foundation series flashbacks. A tip of the hat to you, fellow Foundation fan! You beat me to it! That is my favorite sci fi series of all time. They should make a movie trilogy.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:39:00 - [229] Originally by: Apophis Omega Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: EnglishBob I'll give you three posts before someone mentions WoW. I don't care for WoW either, but as a Caldari citizen with high Caldari faction, I should be able to be provided with Concord protection AT LEAST in 0.5 space and above. What stops this from doing what the so called "Privateers" from cycling corps in and out of their alliance, so they can gank other, smaller, corporations at will? This is a really bad mechanism, and it has to change. Some free advice Quit eve now, I MEAN NOW. If you don't like it, leave eve. No one will change this, you will be flamed. This is how eve was meant to be. You are avoiding PVP by hiding in a noob corp. You are the type of person who whines when he loses his mining barge in 0.0 because the PVP wasn't consentual. Just quit eve, no really, please do. Anything goes in 0.0, son. I'm talking about the lack of protection in 1.0 here.
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:40:00 - [230] Originally by: Jarling Fang Originally by: Strel Samodelkin ...wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. I'm sure Poland was thinking the same thing when the Wehrmact came crashing through their border... or the Americans while Japan was bombing Pearl Harbor Hey, at least EvE gives you 24 hours warning before the shooting starts - be thankful for that much! Fair enough. But whats with the 24 hour timer before my roles in the corp are unassigned?
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:44:00 - [231] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Originally by: BurnHard Originally by: Tsanse Kinske How is it illegal for the ~~lemurs~~...uhh, victims of a wardec to run away? Other than disbanding and reforming an identical corp, I can't think of any examples of what you mean. Yes, thats what I mean by illegal. Be fair about it. That leaves at least 4 other ways to "run away" I can think of that aren't exploits. Well, yes, but this just happens to be the path of least resistance. It just so happens that it's easier to beam yourself into another corp than to beam your entire corp into another part of the galaxy, especially if you are running agents, not to mention the given increased risk of moving anything through empire in those circumstances. As for fighting the attackers, can I say, HAHAHAHA. But only because they make a living out of PvP'ing, whereas, those wardecced probably don't.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2007.01.16 23:58:00 - [232] Originally by: BurnHard Well, yes, but this just happens to be the path of least resistance. It just so happens that it's easier to beam yourself into another corp than to beam your entire corp into another part of the galaxy, especially if you are running agents, not to mention the given increased risk of moving anything through empire in those circumstances. Ehh, your definition of "easy" and the importance you place on it is different than mine I guess. Quote: As for fighting the attackers, can I say, HAHAHAHA. But only because they make a living out of PvP'ing, whereas, those wardecced probably don't. We were talking about running rather than fighting though. But since you brought it up, yeah, at the extremes it's pretty much hopeless. A complete noob corp isn't going to fight off a determined group of experienced PvPers who are focused on tearing them apart. Fortunately the extremes are rare though, as there's not much reason for that determined group of experienced PvPers to call that Wardec in the first place. At less than the extremes, it's not hopeless, not by a longshot. People like to say it is though, mostly I think because they are used to other games and don't know any better. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.17 00:09:00 - [233] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske [ We were talking about running rather than fighting though. But since you brought it up, yeah, at the extremes it's pretty much hopeless. A complete noob corp isn't going to fight off a determined group of experienced PvPers who are focused on tearing them apart. Fortunately the extremes are rare though, as there's not much reason for that determined group of experienced PvPers to call that Wardec in the first place. At less than the extremes, it's not hopeless, not by a longshot. People like to say it is though, mostly I think because they are used to other games and don't know any better. Sure but look at it from a more pragmatic point of view. If all your corpies do all day is agent missions or run factories servicing some given market or something like that, then damned right it's not so easy to move somewhere else, especially when all you have to do to avoid it is exit the corp for a while. Anyway the point to all this is that it's fun for one group of players and not fun for the other group - yet both groups have a goal in-game and that goal is probably to enjoy themselves in whatever way they prefer. This is why the two things are somewhat mutually exclusive. However, ultimately if you have good leadership you might prefer one of the alternatives; you might even enjoy fighting, but more than likely only if the corp is prepared to pay for all the stuff you lose, including your +5s ;). Now, as most CEO's see the corp wallet as pretty much their own, in most cases you'll end up having to quit to NPC if you want to weather the storm.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2007.01.17 01:33:00 - [234] Originally by: Chimu Quien A lot of people like you see this as some sort of macho Darwinian struggle that teaches something about real life. It isn't. None of this stuff is real. It's just entertainment. A game. It's nothing more than a pleasant way to pass one's free time. That doesn't alter the fact that the game mechanics are designed to promote competition at every level. Anyone who pretends that they can avoid affecting and being affected by other players is deluding themselves. This is the point you keep avoiding with straw man arguments and pretense. Originally by: Chimu Quien Originally by: Chimu Quien I don't expect or necessarily want the game to be changed to reflect their desires, but their opinions are valid ones and its just plain rude to keep screaming at them 'adapt or get out!!!' There is room in Eve for everybody. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds There is room in Eve for everybody that understands the game. Well, unless you work for CCP and are planning to boot me out of the game or pull the plug on the game entirely, you're wrong. I've been here for a long time, and will continue to play Eve. I don't need to. The game mechanics you dislike are in place and will remain in place for as long as Eve remains a competitive game. Originally by: Chimu Quien It's a big game universe. Somewhere out there are players who approach the game differently than you. As long as they are not telling you what to do and how to think, why should you care? I don't care, provided they don't come on here to whine that the game needs to be fixed 'cause they got their ** blown up. Originally by:** Tyrrax Thorrk Is there anything other than ISK you might be interested in?
Depp Knight Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.17 10:31:00 - [235] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? You come out as such a cry baby. Mate its a pvp game. Find other corp friends, form an alliance. Make someone think twice before war decking you. This saying is said everywhere in this game There is no SAFE zone in eve. If what you saying came true, the market vanishes, the polictics go, the game will die.
Aphotica Raven	Posted - 2007.01.17 12:20:00 - [236] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work. Is that your main character? If you do make a corp, i will wardec you, and i will endevour to wipe said corp out. Your whinging is rediculous, find another game, we dont need people like you wasting server resources and clogging the forums with your crap. Get used to eve the way it is, theres plenty of ways for you to be a *****, im sure you're aware of them. Stay in the noob corp and waste your time in eve.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.17 12:31:00 - [237] Originally by: Strel Samodelkin Originally by: TheAwakening So you're not going to join or form a corp, INCASE privateers war decs you? Ever thought about just flying under the radar and doing it rather than drawing all this attention to yourself? Yes. Someone I know formed a corporation a month ago. They already got war declared on them, and have lost several transports. In secured space. Current system DOES NOT work.
BurnHard	Posted - 2007.01.17 12:46:00 - [238] Originally by: Depp Knight Originally by: Strel Samodelkin So let me get this straight, if I join a corp, another corp can just "declare war" (Privateers) on my corp, and attack my members, and I would NOT receive Concord protection? WHY?! Thats not good. Its why I'm not in a corp right now. I have a really great idea for a Caldari corporation with a "profit sharing" concept that would make it very successful! Corp wars should only be declared if BOTH sides declare war on each other. It should be CONSENTED. Better yet, Concorde should protect the corp that does not want to go to war. Agree or disagree? You come out as such a cry baby. Mate its a pvp game. Find other corp friends, form an alliance. Make someone think twice before war decking you. This saying is said everywhere in this game There is no SAFE zone in eve. If what you saying came true, the market vanishes, the polictics go, the game will die. You do make me laugh with all your "Game Will Die!", "Market will vanish!", "Politics will go!" rubbish. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? No, the game won't die. No the market won't vanish and no the politics won't go. Concentrate on this specific problem, don't over-analyze it until it becomes absurd. When it comes to wars, there is something wrong with the system - not in implementation, but in the way it's being used by certain corps/alliances. It is nothing to do with politics, the market or PvP. It's plainly to do with picking easy targets - and directly interfacing two play-styles, both supported within the game, but which are mutually exclusive. The solution for those easy targets is to disband/run (the former being considered an exploit). Now there is something wrong in this mechanism that is more game-breaking than anything else. Now as with a lot of things in Eve in the past, a minority of players have abused certain aspects of the game precipitating a nerf or change in mechanics for EVERYONE. You should be careful lending these players your unqualified support because if past experience is anything to go by, the precious war-dec mechanism will get hit with the bat. Yes the majority of players live with it, enjoy it - but like I say, it's always the minority who spoil it for the rest.
Nathaniel Hull Caldari Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:27:00 - [239] Strel do not dishonor yourself as a caldari. and your DUCK offends me deeply. ....stupid ducks and oh yeah if you dont like war just hide eventually the other corp wont pay money to hunt nothing. lastly ur ceo as moronic as he may be should be notified of the war so if he doesn't inform the corp well......it is indeed time to join a new corp.
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:49:00 - [240] thank god something like this will never be taken seriously by anyone tbh. Not the community and not the devs. It goes against what Eve is. for clarification: Eve is a game of competition. Eve is a game of combat. Eve is a game of you against others. Eve is about Making that ISK despite this competition and then taking those who are competing for the same isk and chopping them down at the knees and laughing at them as they move to another region. Eve is about that extra level of ME that makes it that much easier to undercut the best price in region or that extra 0.045 damage modifier that saves your ship and leaves the other in a pod crying for his mother and whining on the forums that blasters need to be nerfed. any arguement about politics crashing just shows that you haven't been around for very long or you've just ignored everything. Eve has been around for over 3 years and it's been like this and the economy is doing just fine.
Daikaze	Posted - 2007.01.17 19:55:00 - [241] EvE PVP is as real as it gets. There are countries with warring groups. War isn't consensual and as long as it doesn't affect the other groups they don't usually care. In this case Concord ignores the fighting because it has nothing to do with them and it will ultimately cost them money. They protect their citizens like any corp protects their members. I suppose someone will counter-argue this (I can think of a few things to argue this already). Essentially you just need to do what is done in reality: You ask for help :) Odds are there is going to be a corp/alliance that frowns on people that pick on the weak corps. Allies are important in this game, you need to make plenty of them to avoid this sort of thing... of course then you only have to deal with the big alliances that want to war with your alliance ;) This isn't a solo game, it is about politics and alliances. Anyone that isn't a friend is an enemy, there is no neutral in EVE
Kirmok	Posted - 2007.01.17 20:50:00 - [242] I must add my 2 cents. I think that in high security empire space...as long as you have neutral or better faction standing...the local military should protect you...concord stays out of it. That makes sense to me... The empires should seemingly want to maintain order within its borders in high second space. Esp if you have positive standings with them. Other than that I stick to my npc corp and have fun. Uninvited pvp is not my thing. I don't pay 15 a month to help some loser who is upset with his/her real life get their rocks off. Just my 2 cents.
Xavier Raines	Posted - 2007.01.17 21:50:00 - [243] Originally by: Kirmok I must add my 2 cents. I think that in high security empire space...as long as you have neutral or better faction standing...the local military should protect you...concord stays out of it. That makes sense to me... The empires should seemingly want to maintain order within its borders in high second space. Esp if you have positive standings with them. Other than that I stick to my npc corp and have fun. Uninvited pvp is not my thing. I don't pay 15 a month to help some loser who is upset with his/her real life get their rocks off. Just my 2 cents. Huh? You are saying that people who enjoy PvP {or at least pvp that involves you} are losers who hate their lives? People with your mindset are half the reason why these pirates go out of their way to go after carebear corps. They read this trash on the forums and come after you and your kind because you don't know when to shut up. Just my two cents.
Kirmok	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:22:00 - [244] Originally by: Xavier Raines Originally by: Kirmok I must add my 2 cents. I think that in high security empire space...as long as you have neutral or better faction standing...the local military should protect you...concord stays out of it. That makes sense to me... The empires should seemingly want to maintain order within its borders in high second space. Esp if you have positive standings with them. Other than that I stick to my npc corp and have fun. Uninvited pvp is not my thing. I don't pay 15 a month to help some loser who is upset with his/her real life get their rocks off. Just my 2 cents. Huh? You are saying that people who enjoy PvP {or at least pvp that involves you} are losers who hate their lives? People with your mindset are half the reason why these pirates go out of their way to go after carebear corps. They read this trash on the forums and come after you and your kind because you don't know when to shut up. Just my two cents. Such hostility... I was talking about the people who kill just do the hell of it...no economic need, no teritorial conflict, just the people who go after people minding their own business who are in the wrong place at the wrong time. What satisfaction does one derive from playing a game where you can pick on players weaker than you who offer no challenge? Maybe you can explain it to me because I don't understand it That's who I am talking about... I think is quite funny how you ignore the entire content of the quoted post and comment only on the last sentence! lol
Kirmok	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:23:00 - [245] Edited by: Kirmok on 17/01/2007 22:22:22 Dbl post sorry
Teinyhr Minmatar United Systems Navy	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:31:00 - [246] ------------------- Originally by: Smagd Besides, specialization is for insects.
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:37:00 - [247] Originally by: Kirmok Such hostility... I was talking about the people who kill just do the hell of it...no economic need, no teritorial conflict, just the people who go after people minding their own business who are in the wrong place at the wrong time. What satisfaction does one derive from playing a game where you can pick on players weaker than you who offer no challenge? Maybe you can explain it to me because I don't understand it Yes, as I say, the pvp/piracy/war system in Eve doesn't make much sense. There's no logic behind most of the combat. It's nothing more than 'I wanna blow stuff up, d00d!!!' There's no reason, really, for those of us who are in Eve simply for the fun of it to join a player corp. I would rather stay in an NPC corp where I can, effectively, play the game solo. Let those who want to accumulate the biggest ships and the most ISK and fight each other go right on ahead and do so. There is room in Eve for everybody.
Chimu Quien	Posted - 2007.01.17 22:45:00 - [248] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds The game mechanics you dislike are in place and will remain in place for as long as Eve remains a competitive game. Who said I don't like the game mechanics? I could not possibly care less what the game mechanics are, because they already allow me to play the game as I see fit to play it. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds I don't care, provided they don't come on here to whine that the game needs to be fixed 'cause they got their **** blown up. Well, friend, the fact that they pay the same subscription you do gives them the right to come here and 'whine,' as you put it. There is nothing at all that you can do about it, unless you work for CCP. The intensity of your anger about this whole issue shows that perhaps you are taking all of this a bit too seriously. In the end, it's just a game. Eve is meant to be fun. I hope that you can somehow find some fun in this wonderful game.
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.17 23:04:00 - [249] Is going to take a truck full of bleach to get all the whine off this poor thread. EVE is fine, it has been fine for over 3 years, if anything NPC corps need nerfing. If EVE lets people hide from risk while making tons of ISK this game will degenerate in to a clone MMORPG like EQII and WoW. EVE is different and the day that changes EVE is dead. If you dont want to PvP the only real solution is to talk to some one into doing it for you or hire mercs, cause the moment you undock in your rookie ship for the first time you are at risk of getting blown up. Some people love this! Oh and cry all you want, it won't help Sig removed does not contain your name, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Malcanis	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:01:00 - [250] Edited by: Malcanis on 17/01/2007 23:58:49 I'm just thinking of those poor Poles in 1939: "OMG HEYDRICH GANG-EXPLOIT GANKED US: NERF PANZERS!"
Romeda Minmatar Trojan industries	Posted - 2007.01.18 00:04:00 - [251] Ok let me spell this out to you all... First EVE is not a PvP only game, simply because most of the player base can't look passed blowing things up to see the balance of EVE's content, so no, EVE is a balanced game. And the game mechanics of EVE allow for corps to declare war on other corps, this has always been so. Privateers are not exploiting the war-decing mechanics but in my opinion they are pushing things a little near the line and turning EVE into something like Counter Strike.

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