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Is anything _significantly_ faster than my Golem for L4 isk-making?

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Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 942	Posted - 2015.12.18 17:35:39 - [61] - Quote Optimal: 46km Falloff: +123km Cycle time: 15s So I MJD for distance, all the NPC fly towards me with almost 0 transversal. Ungroup guns for one shotting frigs. Group 2 together for one shotting cruisers, maybe 2 shots if it is a elite cruiser. Group all together for one shotting BCs, and 2 shotting BS. Deploy MTU. Then salvage drones once frigs are gone. Use tractors to haul in all wrecks within range. Since I am going for the full clear and max salvage, this seems to work very well.
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2235	Posted - 2015.12.18 23:08:12 - [62] - Quote barghest has has the damage advantage for a while, it just got ever so slightly better Old barghest 7 launchers * 1.25 damage bonus = 8.75 Effective launchers Now barghest 6 launchers 1.5 damage bonus = 9 effective launchers golem 4 launchers 2 = 8 effective launchers. also with the mordus bonus you don't have to volley count ever (unless you go crazy range sniping with sensor boosters and stuff) On efficiency: sure the golem uses less ammo, but if more dps clears missions faster then income rises. ammo is cheap and surprisingly small increases in income easily out weigh more ammo use. A little more input for a bunch more output, now that's the kind of efficiency I like. Arty vargur: I'd keep the guns ungrouped all the time. so much overkill. I'd also consider a t2 rate of fire rig, because damn arty is slow. @ChainsawPlankto
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4880	Posted - 2015.12.19 06:28:27 - [63] - Quote RHML Barghest for the win. Especially in a group of 3 or more - it just melts rats. Picture a small group of Barghests - each dishing out 900+ DPS with damage-specific FoF missiles... It literally melts Extravaganzas. The key is to augment this with hydraulic rigs, missile guidance enhancers and a projection implant to get missile velocity over 30,000 m/s. With a cycle time of ~2.5s it means you can almost instablap anything out to 75km without losing more than a handful of volleys. You also have a stupid insane range of something like 150km with almost perfect damage application. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Firestorm Delta Aphotic Machina 53	Posted - 2015.12.19 07:19:18 - [64] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: barghest has has the damage advantage for a while, it just got ever so slightly better Old barghest 7 launchers * 1.25 damage bonus = 8.75 Effective launchers Now barghest 6 launchers 1.5 damage bonus = 9 effective launchers golem 4 launchers 2 = 8 effective launchers. also with the mordus bonus you don't have to volley count ever (unless you go crazy range sniping with sensor boosters and stuff) On efficiency: sure the golem uses less ammo, but if more dps clears missions faster then income rises. ammo is cheap and surprisingly small increases in income easily out weigh more ammo use. A little more input for a bunch more output, now that's the kind of efficiency I like. Arty vargur: I'd keep the guns ungrouped all the time. so much overkill. I'd also consider a t2 rate of fire rig, because damn arty is slow. One extra effective launcher with no application bonuses will leave the Barghest performing worse than the Golem against small targets, especially with Explosion velocity bonus from the Golem making up for the worst stat on Cruise missiles. Rapid heavies would be better on the Barghest of course, but Cruise would still probably work better on the Golem, unless you need mobility in which case Barghest all the way. Of course to me that is still a cardinal sin as I believe the Golem should only ever have Torps which are considerably better on the Golem than anything else and with the addition of the MGC they just got even better. Faction torps and Rage torps can get some more application or range and Jav torps can reach out to about 90km with the range script, and that was before they just buffed them. I will second that ammo is actually fairly cheap all things considered, the difference in cost would be negligible even over hundreds of missions. The Navy Raven (Still call it the CNR) used to have the 8.75 effective launchers before they traded rate of fire for application and yet it still was the preferred Cruise platform before the Bastion module became a thing. Of course what you should fly for missions is entirely up to what you enjoy. I started flying the Golem forever ago because I liked the old Torp explosions and wanted to use them in missions but my Raven wasn't cut out for that. At the time the Golem was pretty much the only ship that could actually use torps in a mission and perform quite well. I've stuck with it since and continued to improve and enhance my fitting and skills for it. While I can fly many other good missions ships I just enjoy the Golem too much to really use them.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4880	Posted - 2015.12.19 08:16:47 - [65] - Quote Firestorm Delta wrote: One extra effective launcher with no application bonuses will leave the Barghest performing worse than the Golem against small targets, especially with Explosion velocity bonus from the Golem making up for the worst stat on Cruise missiles. A T1 flare and a pair of T2 missile guidance enhancers actually gives you more application bonus than the Golem has by default. Granted, you can't match the target painter bonus - but you don't necessarily need to, either. The Barghest is geared towards rapid heavy missiles, and in that role it excels. I like the Golem too, though. I just wish it didn't have such a paper thin shield buffer. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 290	Posted - 2015.12.19 12:19:48 - [66] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: Optimal: 46km Falloff: +123km Cycle time: 15s So I MJD for distance, all the NPC fly towards me with almost 0 transversal. Ungroup guns for one shotting frigs. Group 2 together for one shotting cruisers, maybe 2 shots if it is a elite cruiser. Group all together for one shotting BCs, and 2 shotting BS. Deploy MTU. Then salvage drones once frigs are gone. Use tractors to haul in all wrecks within range. Since I am going for the full clear and max salvage, this seems to work very well. Is there a hot key you can use for grouping and ungrouping your guns? Like a hot key for ungrouped 4 guns, and another for a pair of double grouped guns etc....?
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 290	Posted - 2015.12.19 12:23:30 - [67] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: barghest has has the damage advantage for a while, it just got ever so slightly better Old barghest 7 launchers * 1.25 damage bonus = 8.75 Effective launchers Now barghest 6 launchers 1.5 damage bonus = 9 effective launchers golem 4 launchers 2 = 8 effective launchers. also with the mordus bonus you don't have to volley count ever (unless you go crazy range sniping with sensor boosters and stuff) On efficiency: sure the golem uses less ammo, but if more dps clears missions faster then income rises. ammo is cheap and surprisingly small increases in income easily out weigh more ammo use. A little more input for a bunch more output, now that's the kind of efficiency I like. Arty vargur: I'd keep the guns ungrouped all the time. so much overkill. I'd also consider a t2 rate of fire rig, because damn arty is slow. The Golem is the weirdest Marauder with that TP (ewar) bonus. CCP should rethink that skill and give the Golem an explosive radius bonus or a missile flight time bonus instead.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4881	Posted - 2015.12.20 01:49:08 - [68] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: The Golem is the weirdest Marauder with that TP (ewar) bonus. CCP should rethink that skill and give the Golem an explosive radius bonus or a missile flight time bonus instead. We've kind of had this discussion and most are opposed to it because the TP bonus is used in fleet actions (particularly in wormholes). Strangely enough, with the addition of the MGC the TP bonus actually gives the Golem insane damage application. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 290	Posted - 2015.12.20 03:25:16 - [69] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: I think I will have to try the Vargur with Artys. [Vargur, arty] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster Large Micro Jump Drive Large Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L Bastion Module I Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Large Projectile Turret LP-1005 The Volley DPS is 14000 with my skills. That should blap BS in 2 volleys, and anything smaller in 1. Are you Passive + Active shield tanking with this fit? Why so much bling? Vargurs are fully capable of running missions T2 fitted.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 1144	Posted - 2015.12.20 03:53:35 - [70] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: I think I will have to try the Vargur with Artys. [Vargur, arty] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster Large Micro Jump Drive Large Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L Bastion Module I Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Large Projectile Turret LP-1005 The Volley DPS is 14000 with my skills. That should blap BS in 2 volleys, and anything smaller in 1. Are you Passive + Active shield tanking with this fit? Why so much bling? Vargurs are fully capable of running missions T2 fitted. Agreed, plus, with the active ganking bonus on the Vargur and bastion, it would be better suited with a shield boost amp over an extender.
Tarojan Tarojan Corporation 198	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:12:22 - [71] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: I think I will have to try the Vargur with Artys. [Vargur, arty] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field Pithum B-Type Medium Shield Booster Large Micro Jump Drive Large Shield Extender II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L Bastion Module I Small Tractor Beam II Small Tractor Beam II Salvager II Large Projectile Burst Aerator II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hobgoblin II x5 Warrior II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Surgical Strike SS-905 Eifyr and Co. 'Gunslinger' Large Projectile Turret LP-1005 The Volley DPS is 14000 with my skills. That should blap BS in 2 volleys, and anything smaller in 1. Pretty sure that fit is over blinged, the damage rig is giving you almost nothing and the 4th faction gyro is wasted too. Looks like gank bait. The advice I have been given and have read is that you want to attach an afterburner to your mara as well. The medium shield booster if perma running will keep your mara alive if you DC in bastion for sure, but it leaves you vulnerable to gank squads. This is why the advice is to use a pith XL booster with a cap booster. Its total over kill for a mission, but its to defend you v 44 catas appearing in your mission pocket. try: damage control II Gyro II Gyro II Gyro II republic fleet Gyro II MJD 100mn enduring afterburner Pith Xlarge shield booster pith c type medium shield booster advanced invul II Tracking computer II 1400mm Howitzer arty II 1400mm Howitzer arty II 1400mm Howitzer arty II 1400mm Howitzer arty II 2 Large Capacitor control circuit II Fitting cost is 355m isk, its cap stable with the Xl booster and afterburner off so you can bastion up and perma run it. I would also fit it with an auto targeting system cos I'm in love with how easier thiongs are when your packing one. That fit isn't going to get ganked. Will gank for food
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4881	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:20:07 - [72] - Quote Tarojan wrote: That fit isn't going to get ganked. If I had a nickel for every time I'd read that... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tarojan Tarojan Corporation 198	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:26:12 - [73] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Tarojan wrote: That fit isn't going to get ganked. If I had a nickel for every time I'd read that... Well anything CAN be ganked. Good fitting, no bling and cautious flying means your not likely to though as there are better/easier targets out there. Being a carebear in high sec is like being a gazelle chased by a cheetah. You don't have to outrun the cat, just the other gazelle. Will gank for food
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 945	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:38:12 - [74] - Quote I'd worry about ganking if I actually sat on the warp-in, didn't watch d-scan, and didn't have a couple more of the exact same fit sitting in the hanger. I fly what I can afford to lose. Besides, where is the fun of having billions in isk, if you don't use it to fly expensive toys?
Tarojan Tarojan Corporation 198	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:46:50 - [75] - Quote Estella Osoka wrote: I'd worry about ganking if I actually sat on the warp-in, didn't watch d-scan, and didn't have a couple more of the exact same fit sitting in the hanger. I fly what I can afford to lose. Besides, where is the fun of having billions in isk, if you don't use it to fly expensive toys? VOV If I could afford to throw away a mara I'd prob do it one shotting something on the jita undock :P. What ever floats your boat. Will gank for food
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2236	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:57:00 - [76] - Quote the t2 burst aerator shaves about a second off of the rate of fire. Would be interesting to see how that interacts with server ticks. probably worth activating and firing and then deactivating and repeating for a whole clip to see how long it takes to fire all 20 rounds. yea probably not worth using 4x faction gyros, but running 3 faction and then a t2 seems alright. to defend vs ganks I'd consider swapping one of the mids for an xl asb. and on that note probably not worth using a deadspace invlun, although their prices have come down so much I wouldn't be too worried either. Although ganks seem pretty dang rare these days. On the barghest vs golem I don't know which one runs faster overall, but my warp speed rigged, 2x mgc 1x mge barghest has pretty good application, add a painter or maybe two and it volleys cruisers. and hell at MJD range it hits before the next volley fires. Would be interested in trying out the torp golem, haven't flow that in years. with bastion mode giving a velocity bonus and MGCs might be a bit more interesting to fly. @ChainsawPlankto
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2236	Posted - 2015.12.20 04:59:22 - [77] - Quote Tarojan wrote: Estella Osoka wrote: I'd worry about ganking if I actually sat on the warp-in, didn't watch d-scan, and didn't have a couple more of the exact same fit sitting in the hanger. I fly what I can afford to lose. Besides, where is the fun of having billions in isk, if you don't use it to fly expensive toys? VOV If I could afford to throw away a mara I'd prob do it one shotting something on the jita undock :P. What ever floats your boat. having a highsec marauder ganked is a very different thing to throwing them away. If I started throwing them away I'd be out of isk in no time. But running missions in a cheap fit, that marauder is probably going to pay for itself many times over. @ChainsawPlankto
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 1145	Posted - 2015.12.20 06:13:59 - [78] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: the t2 burst aerator shaves about a second off of the rate of fire. Would be interesting to see how that interacts with server ticks. probably worth activating and firing and then deactivating and repeating for a whole clip to see how long it takes to fire all 20 rounds. yea probably not worth using 4x faction gyros, but running 3 faction and then a t2 seems alright. to defend vs ganks I'd consider swapping one of the mids for an xl asb. and on that note probably not worth using a deadspace invlun, although their prices have come down so much I wouldn't be too worried either. Although ganks seem pretty dang rare these days. On the barghest vs golem I don't know which one runs faster overall, but my warp speed rigged, 2x mgc 1x mge barghest has pretty good application, add a painter or maybe two and it volleys cruisers. and hell at MJD range it hits before the next volley fires. Would be interested in trying out the torp golem, haven't flow that in years. with bastion mode giving a velocity bonus and MGCs might be a bit more interesting to fly. Torps on even a Bastion Golem are still insanely slow. At MJD range, my fit can take out just about anything with 1k DPS long before they're within the 1200 DPS range a rage torps, and will even take down several targets before they're within Javelin range which is only about 800-900 DPS. Point being, you're going to be waiting for targets to get in range while cruise will have half the room cleared already.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4881	Posted - 2015.12.20 06:14:35 - [79] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: On the barghest vs golem I don't know which one runs faster overall, but my warp speed rigged, 2x mgc 1x mge barghest has pretty good application, add a painter or maybe two and it volleys cruisers. and hell at MJD range it hits before the next volley fires. Would be interested in trying out the torp golem, haven't flow that in years. with bastion mode giving a velocity bonus and MGCs might be a bit more interesting to fly. Torp Golem sucks. Torp Barghest sucks. Basically torpedoes suck. If they had better damage application over cruise missiles and a higher missile velocity it would be interesting. But since they're closely tied to Stealth Bombers I don't think we'll ever see torpedoes for PvE setups (not too mention that Faction torpedoes are 5x the cost of Fury cruise missiles). You can switch to Precision cruise and basically smite any of the pesky little buggers, too (torpedoes don't have that option). I've tried all manner of torpedo fits (including Polarized variants), but you end up having to switch to Javelin torpedoes so often that the gains are often marginal or borderline compared to cruise missiles. Addendum: And basically what Joe said as well. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4882	Posted - 2015.12.20 06:17:38 - [80] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: having a highsec marauder ganked is a very different thing to throwing them away. If I started throwing them away I'd be out of isk in no time. But running missions in a cheap fit, that marauder is probably going to pay for itself many times over. Avoid blue, try to avoid green as much as possible - and be wary of SoE hubs. And never (never, never, ever) fit purple. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2238	Posted - 2015.12.20 08:17:16 - [81] - Quote heh I forget what torp dps was I haven't looked at it in so long... 31 dps difference between rage torp golem and fury cruise barghest and anyways 40-50km range is very workable in many cases with MWDs and MJDs. although probably not worth it based on speed of the golem, missile travel time, and application. @ChainsawPlankto
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4884	Posted - 2015.12.20 17:35:39 - [82] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: heh I forget what torp dps was I haven't looked at it in so long... 31 dps difference between rage torp golem and fury cruise barghest and anyways 40-50km range is very workable in many cases with MWDs and MJDs. although probably not worth it based on speed of the golem, missile travel time, and application. Barghest for the win. You can run a Polarized Torpedo Golem but it's very squishy, and if you screw up the aggro on a handful of missions you're deader than dead... There are certain missions where torpedoes are ideal - namely Cargo, Damsel, Zazzmatazz and Thief. Everything else you're running and gunning between gates and cruise missiles will always put you further ahead. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 946	Posted - 2015.12.21 14:55:59 - [83] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: having a highsec marauder ganked is a very different thing to throwing them away. If I started throwing them away I'd be out of isk in no time. But running missions in a cheap fit, that marauder is probably going to pay for itself many times over. Avoid blue, try to avoid green as much as possible - and be wary of SoE hubs. And never (never, never, ever) fit purple. No. Fly what you can afford to lose. People who are worried about losing expensive stuff in this game of spaceship pixels makes me sick. People worried about their killboard stats make me puke.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4886	Posted - 2015.12.21 15:42:54 - [84] - Quote Yes, which in most cases means don't fit Faction or Deadspace modules. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 1151	Posted - 2015.12.21 16:36:34 - [85] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Yes, which in most cases means don't fit Faction or Deadspace modules. I'm not worried about it... Everyone leave my Golem alone and would rather spend all their time attacking barges and haulers.
Estella Osoka Perkone Caldari State 949	Posted - 2015.12.22 14:17:46 - [86] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Yes, which in most cases means don't fit Faction or Deadspace modules. Most of my blue and green hasn't been bought. Exploration is fun!
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1275	Posted - 2015.12.22 20:59:49 - [87] - Quote Quote: On efficiency: sure the golem uses less ammo, but if more dps clears missions faster then income rises. Only when you sit down and do enough missions to complete an extra mission with the time saved does this effect start to matriculate. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4891	Posted - 2015.12.23 03:00:17 - [88] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Only when you sit down and do enough missions to complete an extra mission with the time saved does this effect start to matriculate. There's not necessarily a huge difference in applied DPS between the four Marauders. Fly what you enjoy. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cipher Jones The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars 1275	Posted - 2015.12.23 04:10:53 - [89] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Cipher Jones wrote: Only when you sit down and do enough missions to complete an extra mission with the time saved does this effect start to matriculate. There's not necessarily a huge difference in applied DPS between the four Marauders. Fly what you enjoy. Agreed, but IMHO the Vargur is the quickest to complete most missions because of its agility. I still think you would have to play for a longer stretch than I am willing to tolerate for the payout however. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4892	Posted - 2015.12.23 05:11:25 - [90] - Quote Cipher Jones wrote: Agreed, but IMHO the Vargur is the quickest to complete most missions because of its agility. I still think you would have to play for a longer stretch than I am willing to tolerate for the payout however. I'm having fun with a 350mm railgun Kronos fit at present. There's something inherently satisfying about insta-blapping frigates... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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