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Tara Armitage
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 06:16:00 -
[61]
Ms. Hirohito,
The likely reason none of my collegues have responded to you is in your arguments. We have grown very tired over the years to rehash the same points over and over any time a new class of pod pilots graduates and gains access to these channels. In all honesty I believe quite a few other members of the pod pilot community are quite tired of it as well. Dismantling the same straw men arguments year after year is very tiresome. It is even more tiresome if the person needing clarification is clearly enraged and thus unable to think clearly.
That being said all the answers to your questions can be easily found in nearly endless debates that have been had on the topics before. Most of them include "does not apply".
If you are merely looking for answers to your insults - those you can find in the middle of our crosshairs. We will be glad to answer.
I would however suggest that you tone down the aggressiveness a bit first to help your own comprehension and then educate yourself to find out how ill informed of our ideology you are. Your questions are based on misunderstanding and false assumptions.
After that please do decide if your opinions are still in such a violent conflict with ours that you are still in dire need for answers to your insults. They will still be waiting for you in the same place.
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Renee Soleil
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.23 07:08:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Ranis Kirahn
Ms. Soleil,
I would more than happy to inform you of Cyrene goals and policy. I will add you to my index of no-charge individuals and await a direct link or message left. I do not wish to continue the discussion here, mostly due to the general derision and hostility of the environs.
Ranis Kirahn
Mr.Kirahn
I'm relieved to get this response. Taking the adverse conditions you describe and which I've noticed as well into account your offer seems more than reasonable to me.
I will gladly send you a message asap.
Renee Soleil
If you wish them to be brothers, have them build a tower. |
Father Abel
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.23 07:58:00 -
[63]
Leave Star Fraction be.
They are tired of answering salient criticisms about the glaring holes in their ideology.
Of course, they fail to realize that as the would-be reformers of the present paradigm, it is their burden to convince the masses that their way is the best (and only) way. So tired or not, they should keep answering. But that is all right to them. They are never tired of pulling the trigger. Yes. There is always "that" way.
Persuasion through power. Through a monopoly of force.
That is the most convincing weapon in their ideological arsenal. And we should all be convinced of at least "that" much. Why, you ask? Why, because we're all so familiar with it. Persuasion through power is so positively ... empire-like.
Then again, empires have much more finesse in their application of force. Empires invented power persuasion, after all. And refined it through eons of use. Empires rise and fall. But really only the name and banner change. The methods remain. The people remain. In the end, there is always empire.
Star Fraction's application of force? Still rudimentary. Well, let us just say that it doesn't produce any enlightened peoples. Just a lot of dead ones. Yes. Reformers, indeed.
_____________________
Father Abel - Lieutenant
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
"Private property makes a free man a free man." |
Nekumi
Caldari
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 10:01:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Father Abel
Leave Star Fraction be.
They are tired of answering salient criticisms about the glaring holes in their ideology.
Of course, they fail to realize that as the would-be reformers of the present paradigm, it is their burden to convince the masses that their way is the best (and only) way. So tired or not, they should keep answering. But that is all right to them. They are never tired of pulling the trigger. Yes. There is always "that" way.
Persuasion through power. Through a monopoly of force.
That is the most convincing weapon in their ideological arsenal. And we should all be convinced of at least "that" much. Why, you ask? Why, because we're all so familiar with it. Persuasion through power is so positively ... empire-like.
Then again, empires have much more finesse in their application of force. Empires invented power persuasion, after all. And refined it through eons of use. Empires rise and fall. But really only the name and banner change. The methods remain. The people remain. In the end, there is always empire.
Star Fraction's application of force? Still rudimentary. Well, let us just say that it doesn't produce any enlightened peoples. Just a lot of dead ones. Yes. Reformers, indeed.
Using the word salient to describe any of this utter dribble is an apocryphal misuse. We have been clear and concise as to what we do and if people so infected with regressive doggerel mindsets can only see their own twisted systems in what we do then it just makes me fight all the harder to eradicate it before it taints any one else.
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Ly'sol
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Posted - 2007.01.23 10:13:00 -
[65]
Tara if you grown tired of dismantling straw man arguments, you need to find a new corp. ThatĘs the very same type of brainwashing you are fighting for. Spitting in the faces of the new pod pilots will do nothing to help them see the reality of the situation.
You speak of warfare as if it is a tool of persuasion. ItĘs a tool of politics used for the containment of an enemy. Warfare alone will not stop it.
Click here for Lysol's Linky Library-last updated 30NOV06 |
Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:22:00 -
[66]
All I can suggest is that if you are truely interested in talking through what SF stands for, then visit us in our channel.
This place, sadly, is not the right place. It should be, but any conversation here will only degrade into mud slinging because, at the end of the day, there will always be some what will never agree with each other and will bay and hoot at any given chance to silence the other.
Once you have identified those people, the only question you have left to ask yourself is: Is my cause worth fighting for?
If you are true interested, lets talk in private.
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Join Now |
Takakura Hirohito
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:52:00 -
[67]
It is not an insult it is the truth. You have not answered the simple question instead you artfully dodge it with twenty paragraph star fractionists posts about idealistic dogma that would do Jade proud. You say you attack people to free them yet do not answer the question are they not free already? No one forces us to live in the Khanid Kingdom and we can leave whenever we want. I dont get asked for papers when I travel from empire to empire. I have a choice to live as a I want when I want and where I want. Isnt that freedom? Who are you to say it isnt? You can try and justify your actions by claiming they free us all but the truth is your nothing more than pirates after a sense using any reason to attack people. You have a 0.0 mentality where you can invent reasons for everything you do maybe you should move out there and fight people who really oppress people. ASCN, D2, BOB, LV all have claimed space and tossed people out thus denying freedom to people. Where are those wardecs Star Fraction? Do that then come back here and tell us how you have freed people and space. Make space free for all of us. Maybe then people will listen to you.
Taki
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:01:00 -
[68]
WeĘve been there.
You obviously have no knowledge of history or what you are talking about.
You were invited to bring any meaningful questions to a more suitable forum. Instead you chose to rant here (again). I now can only assume you're here to rabble rouse, not debate or show any interest in seeing any version of things other than the one you brought with you.
You call yourself free, but you've just proven that you are a slave to your own single mindedness. Strange how people can answer their own questions sometimes isnĘt it.
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Join Now |
Tara Armitage
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 15:18:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Tara Armitage on 23/01/2007 15:15:49
I thank you for keeping your opinions about my career choices to yourself and even more so out of the public from now on, Ly'sol.
Time after time it has been proven a waste of effort to try and answer the same old strawmen arguments. I shall not require myself to endure that daily to remain true to my goals and vision.
As always, a real honest and fruitful conversation of these matters can be had on our own forums. There it is out of the way of the many people that have read all these arguments a hundred times before.
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Tatsue Nuko
Tabula Rasa Systems
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 16:36:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Ly'sol
Spitting in the faces of the new pod pilots will do nothing to help them see the reality of the situation.
New or old doesn't come into it. If they deserve nothing, they get nothing. If they deserve spittle, they get spittle.
And if they want our time for a response, they'll have to at least make a show of being serious inquirers, like Renee Soleil.
Renee gets discussion, Takakura gets nothing. The reasons are all in their approach.
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:01:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Beringe on 23/01/2007 16:59:06
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko
To the contrary I would th
CYI's ideology conflicts with Star Fraction in that they celebrate a culture that creates dependance, territorialism, (sometimes very violent) subjugation, and a rule by the self-serving political classes in a great farce that they call "democracy". (A system that by virtue of it's do-goodery cosmetics is arguably more dangerous and more evil than the obvious repressions of the Amarr feudalism. The evil that is seen as a beacon of good has so greater a power to corrupt the hearts and minds of people.)
And of course, the anarchism you propose is not repressive at all, and the war you conduct against the paragons of democracy is not violent at all. Or is that not very violent at all (I wonder what that was a reference to, to be honest)?
Really, when it comes to corrupting hearts and minds, the Star Fraction is probably the worst of all players - having more or less a dedicated propaganda wing to compare the worst of mankind with your enemies. Of course, this isn't new...but the utter surrender of reason and reliance on hybrid charges to make a point is a fairly recent development in your organisation. And yes, it *is* a bloody organisation! You follow your leaders as much as anybody, and if you refuse to admit it, you're blind!
I wonder who the Star Fraction would turn against if all their wishes would come true. Revolutionaries never offer solutions. All they offer is destruction.
My point - my *point* in all of this, is that the Star Fraction has in no way been able to show that the system they propose (or indeed, the lack of a system) is better than democracy. They have never put their own style of self-governance to the test on a large scale, simply because it is impossible! None of mankind's dreams for the stars would have become reality if the likes of you hadn't been beaten back into the trees and the caves where your "right makes might" policies belong.
Do-goodery cosmetics! Bah! Someone tries to make a difference, so you kill them - where, and this is the interesting part, there are *admittedly* much worse (in your own words 'evil') targets out there.
Revolutionaries is probably wrong. Thugs is more like it.
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:18:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Father Abel
Leave Star Fraction be. They are tired of answering salient criticisms about the glaring holes in their ideology.
I don't think you'd recognise the word "salient" if it introduced itself to you sweetly and took you out to dinner darling!
Quote:
... Of course, they fail to realize that as the would-be reformers of the present paradigm, it is their burden to convince the masses that their way is the best (and only) way. So tired or not, they should keep answering. But that is all right to them. They are never tired of pulling the trigger. Yes. There is always "that" way.
Our existence and way of life is the argument that never stops. I noted your corporation was bemoaning your inability to fight the economic and combat juggernaut of the Star Fraction in the Mito campaign? Doesn't that prove that our way is superior to living a puling life on your knees worshipping the fallen idols of state factionalism? Why did we beat you quite so badly if our argument was so weak Father Abel?
Quote:
Persuasion through power. Through a monopoly of force.
That is the most convincing weapon in their ideological arsenal. And we should all be convinced of at least "that" much. Why, you ask? Why, because we're all so familiar with it. Persuasion through power is so positively ... empire-like.
Persuasion from personal power yes. If an individual has enough power to resist the domination of empires then each is indeed an empire to him or herself - individual sovereignty - quite a scarey concept for a statist rhetorist isn't it? What we are talking about here is power. If post-human capsuler society can demonstrate an ability not to be cowed and dominated by your State then our argument is proven and the way is shown.
Quote:
Then again, empires have much more finesse in their application of force. Empires invented power persuasion, after all. And refined it through eons of use. Empires rise and fall. But really only the name and banner change. The methods remain. The people remain. In the end, there is always empire.
That isn't you speaking, thats the meme that possesses your mind.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:24:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Takakura Hirohito
It is not an insult it is the truth. You have not answered the simple question instead you artfully dodge it with twenty paragraph star fractionists posts about idealistic dogma that would do Jade proud. You say you attack people to free them yet do not answer the question are they not free already?
No they are not free already. They are infected with a disease that makes them think they are free while guarenteeing their slavery to the status quo. Simple enough for you?
Quote:
No one forces us to live in the Khanid Kingdom and we can leave whenever we want. I dont get asked for papers when I travel from empire to empire. I have a choice to live as a I want when I want and where I want.
You don't have a choice, you never did. You are as little able to choose your own violition as a victim of a viral contagion is able choose not to fall sick.
Quote:
Isnt that freedom? Who are you to say it isnt?
I'm Jasmine Constantine and a free captain and thats all the "right" I need. If you want to take that right away from me you are going to need to do something more than compose poorly thought-out diatribes on the Intergalactic summit.
Quote:
You can try and justify your actions by claiming they free us all but the truth is your nothing more than pirates after a sense using any reason to attack people.
Thats the meme speaking.
Quote:
You have a 0.0 mentality where you can invent reasons for everything you do maybe you should move out there and fight people who really oppress people. ASCN, D2, BOB, LV all have claimed space and tossed people out thus denying freedom to people.
They do it because of your submission to the status quo.
Quote:
Where are those wardecs Star Fraction? Do that then come back here and tell us how you have freed people and space. Make space free for all of us. Maybe then people will listen to you.
I don't care if you listen - at this point I just want to shoot you in the head to reduce the noise level.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:27:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
That isn't you speaking, thats the meme that possesses your mind.
I'd like to propose the radical idea that memes do not possess minds, but the other way around.
More accurately even, the two are inseparable.
And although the metaphysical notion of how a meme spreads and takes hold can be used to explain certain things, it's hardly a valuable input into political debate. Especially when your argument is "you cannot think because of meme X".
A meme *is* a thought. And you do not devalue it by just saying that it's there.
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:28:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Beringe
stuff
Dear oh dear, this just gets worse! You are losing any sense of yourself here Beringe. Its as if the collective subconscious of the Intergalactic Summit forum has decided it can stop us by filling our threads will random snippets of spurious rhetorical froth. Its not going happen. You'll need to actually do something.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:35:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 23/01/2007 17:33:27
Originally by: Beringe
And although the metaphysical notion of how a meme spreads and takes hold can be used to explain certain things, it's hardly a valuable input into political debate. Especially when your argument is "you cannot think because of meme X".
Would you prefer me to condemn you as a territoralist xenophobe who has fought to claim a part of 0.0 and taken part in the suppression and elimination of neutrals and free traders in the interests of some imaginary short-lived flag? Would it be better if I explained your many contradictions and turnarounds and variable loyalties amidst your nationalist fancy and imperial delusions? The ridiculous image of a bloody-handed butcher condemning political violence? The near obscene vision of a tyrannical thug calling revolutionaries bullyboys? No, lets leave it with the simplicity of an elegant categorisation. You Beringe are possessed by that which we call our enemy. The tyrant meme. Its good enough.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:36:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
You'll need to actually do something.
No I don't. You're not doing anything that's going to change the world. I'm just drawing attention to your slavery to your own meme as a minor time-waster.
I'd rather go chase Burn Eden, to tell you the truth. They pose a far greater threat.
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:39:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Beringe
excuses
As you wish. If you want to be known for windy-prattle alone you've achieved that desire admirably. Still you serve a useful purpose in keeping my war-diary bumped so your life is not a complete waste of time.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:40:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Would you prefer me to condemn you as a territoralist xenophobe who has fought to claim a part of 0.0 and taken part in the suppression and elimination of neutrals and free traders in the interests of some imaginary short-lived flag? Would it be better if I explained your many contradictions and turnarounds and variable loyalties amidst your nationalist fancy and imperial delusions?
It's a start.
It's even accurate, as far as my own past is concerned. I'll grant you that I am not the one to throw stones (and I invite you to throw as many as you'd like against my own person), but that doesn't invalidate my points.
Why target democracy, then? A democracy that the likes of me have nothing to do with?
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Kiritu
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:43:00 -
[80]
The truth of the situation.
Over the course of the CYI SF war it has become evident that SF is actually acting for the interest of Intaki Union. It's probably a contract involving exchange of services or actual ISK with IU's hardcore pirate alts or pirate friends out of syndicate. [ooc] SF wardec towards CYI isn't even RP either since their terms to remove the war dec include de-listing and CYI's cease and desist of all RP. Those terms in themselves are anti-RP and show what a fraud SF really is.[/ooc]
It is clear that SF isn't anti-federation at all, since they do make abundant use of Federation facilities. It is also clear that they don't follow any idealogy at all. All their written idealogy is all self contridictory and meandering. For an anti-federation faction they sure do spend alot of time in federation empire space, docking at federation stations, using federation markets.
All CYI stood for was free commerce and passage in the placid region. CYI corporations contained all types of freedom loving pilots. Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr of all blood lines.
All of our patrols ran the stacmon-TXW gate with an occasional hot pursuit into TXW. We broke pirate gate camps along the way and pursued -5.0 pirates at will. CYI provided free escort service for hauler and freighter runs into and out of the aulbres-stacmon area.
And what is SF doing? Chasing free miners, industrialists and haulers out from the placid region? Destroying Light Industrial POS stations? [ooc] And of course the total non-RP terms in a supposed RP war [/ooc]
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:44:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Beringe
Why target democracy, then? A democracy that the likes of me have nothing to do with?
Because the likes of you have justified your oppression through twisted forms of democracy on the frontier and used the decision of councils to tyrannise those beyond the polis. You know this - you were involved with one. Democracy reduces the importance of the individual to a mere statistic and makes it far easier to justify actions and crimes against individual liberty. It is another tool in the nationalist arsenal and as one can see from this thread there is far closer unity between nationalists of different creeds than one might expect.
Gallente, Caldari, Amarri Nationalists all, and all gathered to condemn the star fraction for opposing the state. Makes you think no?
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:56:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Kiritu
The truth of the situation.
Thats a laugh.
Quote:
Over the course of the CYI SF war it has become evident that SF is actually acting for the interest of Intaki Union. It's probably a contract involving exchange of services or actual ISK with IU's hardcore pirate alts or pirate friends out of syndicate.
Is that supposed to be propaganda?
Quote:
It is clear that SF isn't anti-federation at all, since they do make abundant use of Federation facilities.
By the same argument are we to assume that actually any corporation or alliance who has ever purchased one of our tech2 ships is actually a fully-fledged Fractionist Revolutionary?
Quote:
It is also clear that they don't follow any idealogy at all. All their written idealogy is all self contridictory and meandering. For an anti-federation faction they sure do spend alot of time in federation empire space, docking at federation stations, using federation markets.
Reading what we write would be a start for you.
Quote:
All CYI stood for was free commerce and passage in the placid region. CYI corporations contained all types of freedom loving pilots. Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr of all blood lines.
Nationalism, dependence and anti-libetarian paternalism would be a more accurate assessment.
Quote:
All of our patrols ran the stacmon-TXW gate with an occasional hot pursuit into TXW. We broke pirate gate camps along the way and pursued -5.0 pirates at will. CYI provided free escort service for hauler and freighter runs into and out of the aulbres-stacmon area.
Fostering dependency culture and arresting the development of individual responsibility and capability. You were enslaving these people in other words - weakening their spirit and holding back their evolution into self-aware individuals capable of self determination. You were doing the bidding of the nationalist meme - holding capsule pilots to ransom by your malign generosity and reminding them of their debt to the state.
Quote:
And what is SF doing? Chasing free miners, industrialists and haulers out from the placid region? Destroying Light Industrial POS stations?
We have driven nationalist dogs from lowsec placid into your docks in Aunia. Your bitterness at the failure of your fleet is manifest.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Beringe
Caldari
Raptus Regaliter
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Posted - 2007.01.23 17:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Because the likes of you have justified your oppression through twisted forms of democracy on the frontier and used the decision of councils to tyrannise those beyond the polis. You know this - you were involved with one. Democracy reduces the importance of the individual to a mere statistic and makes it far easier to justify actions and crimes against individual liberty. It is another tool in the nationalist arsenal and as one can see from this thread there is far closer unity between nationalists of different creeds than one might expect.
Humbug. The organisation I was involved with was no kind of democracy. It was a corporate republic, with CEOs and directors forming a council senate. If anything, it was a corporate nation. And so is the organisation I am currently involved with.
Democracies allows its subjects to vote for their leaders. And although we didn't specifically disallow member corporations to do this internally, we certainly didn't uphold it.
What you propose is to remove even that slight individual right from the billions upon billions of people that have it. I can't even begin to think how you would do simple things such as law enforcement (i.e. protecting the weak from the strong), labour agreements and property rights within such a system - and neither can you! Insomuch as I've seen, you simply deny the need for those things.
And yes, all of that takes away from individual liberty. It's a good thing. You are a product of just such a society, your values (although severely corrupted by your little cult) and your person a result of it.
I lived on the borders, myself. For the longest of time, I was employed by people who wanted nothing more than the end to the threat that this thing, this democracy, represented to them. And after turning my back on them, I do feel a little odd when I see an enterprise such as this, with the same goal but for misguided reasons.
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"Sarcasm and irony are not to be used by the uninitiated."
--Daitan Beringe, honorary director in charge of bottles-- |
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:01:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Beringe
What you propose is to remove even that slight individual right from the billions upon billions of people that have it. I can't even begin to think how you would do simple things such as law enforcement (i.e. protecting the weak from the strong), labour agreements and property rights within such a system - and neither can you! Insomuch as I've seen, you simply deny the need for those things.
I think you'd do better to listen to what we say than draw opinions from the ranks of ill-informed pundits.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Kiritu
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:17:00 -
[85]
[OOC] Creating terms for end of war that include "Cease and desist" RP, is in itself non-RP. You've been caught and we'll make sure that all RP corps know this isn't an RP war. But an anti-RP war. [/OOC]
As for Intaki Union, their local smack talk leads us to conclude that they've hired SF to harrass CYI. If you have a problem with that assumption, take it up with IU.
[OOC] Again, I'm calling you out. Tell us how a "cease and desist all RP activity" is RP? [/OOC]
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Jasmine Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:24:00 -
[86]
You've had your answers thats all you get.
Star Fraction is recruiting
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:32:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kiritu
[OOC] Creating terms for end of war that include "Cease and desist" RP, is in itself non-RP. You've been caught and we'll make sure that all RP corps know this isn't an RP war. But an anti-RP war. [/OOC]
As for Intaki Union, their local smack talk leads us to conclude that they've hired SF to harass CYI. If you have a problem with that assumption, take it up with IU.
[OOC] Again, I'm calling you out. Tell us how a "cease and desist all RP activity" is RP? [/OOC]
you sir are a complete moron. Typical of CYI membership. Does the death toll of your funeral bell unnerve you so?
All I have to add to you isą
Well I guess it would be nice
if I could touch your body
I know not everybody
has a body like you
(IC forum, get a clue!!!)
Gogo Yubari> You can't destroy your enemy with the power of thought alone like many forum-warriors seem to think.
GLBTA Channel |
Kiritu
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Posted - 2007.01.23 18:57:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Kiritu on 23/01/2007 18:56:45
Edited by: Kiritu on 23/01/2007 18:54:40
Quote:
From: Tomahawk Bliss
All I have to add to you isą
Well I guess it would be nice
if I could touch your body
I know not everybody
has a body like you
(IC forum, get a clue!!!)
This whelp never travels far from his Mother's teat.
Kiritu
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Father Abel
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.01.23 20:10:00 -
[89]
Quote:
Our existence and way of life is the argument that never stops. I noted your corporation was bemoaning your inability to fight the economic and combat juggernaut of the Star Fraction in the Mito campaign? Doesn't that prove that our way is superior to living a puling life on your knees worshipping the fallen idols of state factionalism? Why did we beat you quite so badly if our argument was so weak Father Abel?
You don't need a convincing argument to kill somebody. You just need a bigger gun. Trying to conflate military victory with ideological victory is silly spin that any babe freshly spawned from the test tube could sniff out. And trying to conflate victory over a State-loyalist organization with victory over the State itself is equally laughable. You still have your work cut out for you, if you want to live up to your bold and misguided ambitions.
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Persuasion from personal power yes. If an individual has enough power to resist the domination of empires then each is indeed an empire to him or herself - individual sovereignty - quite a scarey concept for a statist rhetorist isn't it? What we are talking about here is power. If post-human capsuler society can demonstrate an ability not to be cowed and dominated by your State then our argument is proven and the way is shown.
An individual does not have the power to resist the state. A state is created for that very purpose, to be that monopoly of force that intervenes where an individual exercises sovereignty over another individual. I happen to be a law-abiding, State-fearing citizen. I like it that way. I prefer it to fearing individually every other man. Does that make me weak? Sure it does. But a lot of weak people have managed to construct a rather ingenious system.
A system you have not even budged, nor garnered the notice of, much less topple.
And I am inheriting said system with a favorable disposition.
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That isn't you speaking, thats the meme that possesses your mind.
"If you think like me, it's free will. If you don't, it's the meme."
A very convenient way of thinking. And you accuse the others here of making straw arguments. This is the failsafe, the red button under the glass that activates the Doomsday device to end all arguments.
Never mind why "you" should bother arguing with "them".
I wonder why "they" should bother arguing with "you".
After all, your finger is never far from that button. Well, here's my button, since I am such a fair and sporting fellow:
"If you think like me, it's sanity. If you don't, it's insanity."
I suppose since this is at present a thread about the Gallenteans, I'll just leave it at that, bow out and let the Gallenteans deal with the insane in their own way.
_____________________
Father Abel - Lieutenant
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Kimotoro Directive
"Private property makes a free man a free man." |
Vdub2002
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Posted - 2007.01.23 23:55:00 -
[90]
From my home in Duripant, i have yet to see the rest of the galaxy. From what ive read here, i see the ideals that two wrongs make a right, how untrue this is. CYI had secured the system from pirates giving residents and travelers a safe place to live. By removing CYI you have created a system perfect for pirates. You say pilots have been "awakend", how so?
You say they need to learn to defend themselves from pirates, when you rely on your alliance for protection? I see what both sides are saying, and shame on CYI for not fighting for the greater cause, altho thier personal ideals may not be what your looking for, the pilots who resided under thier protection must have enjoyed the freedom of movement with out paying for escort or passage.
In this report, i have read that pirates have been killed, but were these out of the way attacks to oust the pirate, or defending your alliance from the attack of pirates? So many other things could have been done other than declaration of war. You should feel ashamed both sides, that issues had to be solved enforce. What i see coming is a higher form of Feudalism. Younger less combat effective pilots will be forced to join older pilots. In effect creating a system full of pirates and counter pirates, you call this freedom? SF, i still admire the resolve you have shown. The pilots that fly under your alliance show just how resourcefull a alliance that has less in resource and firepower, can bring a titan down. This said, SF would be a great force to have on ones side. In the future i hope we meet on friendly grounds, both SF and CYI. And may future conflicts be better handled by both sides.
Fly safe
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