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Cupertino
Castellum
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:23:00 -
[31]
/signed
I disagree with those who say that they should be able to play exactly how they please because they pay to play. These people need to be accountable for their actions in Eve, it's a persistent mutiplayer world, where everything we do impacts on other people. Almost everything you sell on the market takes a sale from somebody else selling that same item, every complex you clear removes it for other people, every roid you deplete isn't there for the next guy, every BPO you win in the lottery isn't won by another player. There are consequences to all of the things you do, and you need to be made to face them just like the rest of us.
Another misconception is that you'll get griefed out of the game if you make your own solo corp. Unless you're some kind of social misfit that makes enemies every day, you probably won't get instantly wardecced when you press the 'Create Corporation' button, and if you do, it's easy for a solo player to put plans in place to avoid any real loss if this happens. Go run L4 courier missions in an indy, trade from your station, use jump clones creatively, negotiate with the aggressors, whatever ...just put some thought into Eve like the majority of people do every day.
The last time I posted in a thread like this I had people screaming at me saying 'You just want to gank us, leave us alone, etc', so for the record I'll add that I'm a mission-runner in a one-man corp who has never shot at anyone that didn't show signs of being aggressive to me first. This isn't about carebear versus pirate, it's about people being accountable for their actions and not using noobcorps and npc corps to get a free ride through Eve.
I would personally like to see the noobcorps have a 2% tax rate that increases by 2% every week you belong to that corp, maxing out at 50% after 6 months.
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deeper throat
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:24:00 -
[32]
I agree with the OP.
And, please CCP, make an exception to the wardec - stuff that is going on now. Allow people to instantly wardec a corp within 2 hours of being attacked by a member. Wardec must have instant effect in that case. Timely retribution 4tw.
Btw, I'm an alt that is too lazy to switch to his other account.
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Soumk
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:27:00 -
[33]
Characters over six months old should be banned from joining or remaining in a NPC corp.
If you don't agree you're an idiot and should have your balls shaved with a weed wacker.
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Lyn30101
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:27:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan Changing insurance will not stop suicide gankers and ore thieves. They are making so much more than they would loose, even with no insurance, there would not be much impact.
And I agree, most player corps never, ever, get wardec'ed.
Ok, restrict players in NPC corps to frigates, that solves the mining cruiser issue - missed that one, so good call.
How about quit flaming me and actually put some counter suggestions if you dont like mine.
Simply put, there is no simple solution. However your solution guarantees you lose my thirty bucks (Yes I have two accounts to play with because you can't train two people on one account) and a lot of other folks that don't want to mess with the mess state of player corps out there right now. For at least as long as the Privateers are allowed to pick upon anyone happening to fly by and then quit the alliance with no problem.
Also, generally speaking, I actually don't want anything to do with a player corp. I enjoy the game exactly where I am doing exactly what I am doing. If you don't like that it's your issue, not mine.
For all the people that say you can't experience the game without pvp, shooting at other people makes me sick to my stomach. That's my issue, not yours, but it is why I choose the playstyle I do. I've shot at people in RL, I've gone through doors I didn't know what was inside of, and I'm done with that. I want to peacefully recreate, not have to worry about gankateers noticing me as I go by every night. And until you point me out another space MMO I can play my playstyle in, shut up. I like building ships thank you very much. |
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:38:00 -
[35]
Leave the NPC corps alone. You can't force people into PvP, you can only force them to log off, and some of them never come back; a worse problem than the small number of macrominers.
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Lyn30101
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:43:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan Well, I am not into PvP. It is too time consuming, worse than mining for me.
I am an 1 player corp that generally does combat missions when I have time and builds and sells stuff all the time.
I have shot one player since Eve when gold, got mentioned in the kill mail and everything.
That said, being in a player corp (solo) will most likely never get you wardec'ed by PA. There is only one of you and there is a limit on how many corps even PA can afford to wardec.
And let me be the first to say... "can I have your stuff?"
One last thing about suicide gankers: It can be fixed, profit can be removed. I just had a brainstorm on it
Not only do you lose your insurance money on criminal flag, but you also, ALSO, have to pay one third of the person you ganked's insurance payout. If you don't have it, your player goes into debt until you have paid off the debt.
Whatcha think?
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Clan Korval
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:43:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Vasiliyan Leave the NPC corps alone. You can't force people into PvP, you can only force them to log off, and some of them never come back; a worse problem than the small number of macrominers.
Did you read the thread? if so, did you pop your head out? otherwise what you posted does not address the issues other than you saying they are not issues.
This is not about forcing anyone into combat, every one is into PvP, even me and I have not fired a shot in anger in over a year.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Dutarro
Kydance Radiant Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:43:00 -
[38]
Originally by: deeper throat I agree with the OP.
And, please CCP, make an exception to the wardec - stuff that is going on now. Allow people to instantly wardec a corp within 2 hours of being attacked by a member. Wardec must have instant effect in that case. Timely retribution 4tw...
Kill rights are supposed to serve this purpose, though maybe not as well as we would like.
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Clan Korval
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lyn30101
Originally by: Miri Tirzan Well, I am not into PvP. It is too time consuming, worse than mining for me.
I am an 1 player corp that generally does combat missions when I have time and builds and sells stuff all the time.
I have shot one player since Eve when gold, got mentioned in the kill mail and everything.
That said, being in a player corp (solo) will most likely never get you wardec'ed by PA. There is only one of you and there is a limit on how many corps even PA can afford to wardec.
And let me be the first to say... "can I have your stuff?"
One last thing about suicide gankers: It can be fixed, profit can be removed. I just had a brainstorm on it
Not only do you lose your insurance money on criminal flag, but you also, ALSO, have to pay one third of the person you ganked's insurance payout. If you don't have it, your player goes into debt until you have paid off the debt.
Whatcha think?
Will not work. The problem is not the cost of the ship. It is the millions or sometimes billions it carries as fittings or cargo which are not insured. The problem is not with sucide gankers that use thier main (don't cycle an alt) and are in player corps. You can identify them and wardec them and drive them out. What you cannot do is anything to the player that uses and alt in an NPC corp who is protected by Concord till thier ship and cargo scanners find them a good target.
Until that is fixed there will be people abusing NPC corp membership. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Clan Korval
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:50:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Dutarro
Originally by: deeper throat I agree with the OP.
And, please CCP, make an exception to the wardec - stuff that is going on now. Allow people to instantly wardec a corp within 2 hours of being attacked by a member. Wardec must have instant effect in that case. Timely retribution 4tw...
Kill rights are supposed to serve this purpose, though maybe not as well as we would like.
Yeah, but they don't. So you kill the pod that concord leaves, it was a newbie alt created just to die like this. The problem is defending against them. Forcing them out of NPC corp is one part of it.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Lyn30101
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Posted - 2007.01.16 17:52:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
Originally by: Lyn30101
Originally by: Miri Tirzan Well, I am not into PvP. It is too time consuming, worse than mining for me.
I am an 1 player corp that generally does combat missions when I have time and builds and sells stuff all the time.
I have shot one player since Eve when gold, got mentioned in the kill mail and everything.
That said, being in a player corp (solo) will most likely never get you wardec'ed by PA. There is only one of you and there is a limit on how many corps even PA can afford to wardec.
And let me be the first to say... "can I have your stuff?"
One last thing about suicide gankers: It can be fixed, profit can be removed. I just had a brainstorm on it
Not only do you lose your insurance money on criminal flag, but you also, ALSO, have to pay one third of the person you ganked's insurance payout. If you don't have it, your player goes into debt until you have paid off the debt.
Whatcha think?
Will not work. The problem is not the cost of the ship. It is the millions or sometimes billions it carries as fittings or cargo which are not insured. The problem is not with sucide gankers that use thier main (don't cycle an alt) and are in player corps. You can identify them and wardec them and drive them out. What you cannot do is anything to the player that uses and alt in an NPC corp who is protected by Concord till thier ship and cargo scanners find them a good target.
Until that is fixed there will be people abusing NPC corp membership.
So it sounds as if the solution is to adjust the insurance system. whatever the current market average in your region is for the contents lost you have to pay out to the victim when criminal flagged. On top of paying out a third of the ship and not getting any money for your own ship loss.
Trust me a buff in insurance system would be more effective than a nerf to NPC corps. Nerfs are the plague avoid nerfs at all costs!
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:01:00 -
[42]
You say nerf suicide gankers?
How about you stop hauling things in standard t1 haulers? a Frieghter and a transport ship can tank long enough for concord to come save the day Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan Changing insurance will not stop suicide gankers and ore thieves. They are making so much more than they would loose, even with no insurance, there would not be much impact.
And I agree, most player corps never, ever, get wardec'ed.
Ok, restrict players in NPC corps to frigates, that solves the mining cruiser issue - missed that one, so good call.
How about quit flaming me and actually put some counter suggestions if you dont like mine.
Why not rookye ship then and no mining laser? Onestly, I like most of your posts, but here you are doing one of the suggestion I hate most. And using the usual excuses too. Stop macrominers, stop suicide gankers.
Macrominers can easily jump from a "fake" corporation to another, wath would your suggestion add? 3 hours training to 1 charachter and 20 million to build 20 fake corporations to cycle trough? Maybe some 10K to build hangars in some out of hand station?
Throw away auicide gankers: the same. After they have attackedd enough target that someone is hangered enough to war decce them they will simply change bogus corp, cost to build it 1 million.
Others player staing in NPC corp: probably they have personale reasons like too much RL things to do to feel useful in a corp, not wanting the extra involvement and obligations, and so on.
The only worst post are those thay say: we are suggesting it for your good. You are missing too much, you must enter a corporation.
Maybe you haven't noticed that but the players leaving a PC corp get trusth in a NPC one, so if someone has no to leave his current corporation, you say: He must be immediatly nerfed, no isk income, must immediatly re join a corporation, any corporation, as no one older than x time should be in a NPC corp.
Af if I will wait to pick and choose, I must renunce to my income till I enter a new corp?
And again: I am building some research alt. I need for them to get a good standing with some specific corporation but then they will stop grow. If I accept them in my corporation they will lower my average standing with some of the others corporations, and maybe make me lose jumpclones.
So they have no businness staying in mine or any other PC corp, but have a function in play.
And I can continue list things against, while I dont' see a problem.
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Harisdrop
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:10:00 -
[44]
Do something about NPC corps post #2354623
I have the answer in my sig.
Sometimes we keep asking the same question only to hope for an answer!
New NPC NPC Market |
Freddy Krueger
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:12:00 -
[45]
I'm in a npc corp, been there for about a month now; infact both of my "mains" are there.
I started at release, am in the top 10% of skill points & have enough isk to play my way. Sometimes it is nice just to be in a npc corp, away from the politics of 0.0; its almost akin to a holiday.
Don't even consider you have a right to determine my method of play.
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Garonis
Caldari Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:14:00 -
[46]
You dont have to even use t-2 Haulers or freighters, just a reasonable normal tank should suffice.
Back to the topic: Not everyone wants to interact with eve the same way. I am perfectly fine with people choosing to stay in a NPC corp. It does harbor a few macrominers and a few griefers. Not a whole lot you can do about it, with the exception of calling the suicide gankers an exploit, and suspending or banning their accounts. Already macrominers are a no-no, although it is hard to prove, but once proven they are banned.
I personally beleive that you indeed miss out on a lot of content of EvE staying in a npc corp. you miss the good and bad times that bond groups of players into friendship, and friendship is one of the driving factors for me to play. This is my sig ^^ |
DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:17:00 -
[47]
Quote: I personally beleive that you indeed miss out on a lot of content of EvE staying in a npc corp. you miss the good and bad times that bond groups of players into friendship, and friendship is one of the driving factors for me to play.
I agree, but you know what, all that takes a lot of RL time... Many part-time players just can't get that involved... And many who were that involved, have had their EVE-Time drastically cut, and simply cannot engage in that anymore...
Building the homestead |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:19:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Miri Tirzan
.... The problem is not the cost of the ship. It is the millions or sometimes billions it carries as fittings or cargo which are not insured. The problem is not with sucide gankers that use thier main (don't cycle an alt) and are in player corps. You can identify them and wardec them and drive them out. What you cannot do is anything to the player that uses and alt in an NPC corp who is protected by Concord till thier ship and cargo scanners find them a good target.
Until that is fixed there will be people abusing NPC corp membership.
So you want to be proactive: Kill them before they kill me. But how you think you can detect them until they blow your first ship? Then you can easily put them to - and have no problem. You will have even kill rights (at least with one of your characters).
it could be mor useful putting up a board with a list of the know suicide gankers, but I think some kindly forum moderator will delete it.
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Opai McTwist
Amarr The Sell Swords
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:22:00 -
[49]
If CCP is inclined to make massive changes to the NPC corp system (you know, after they've pushed out the entire Kali release, fixed all the issues that arise from that, finish upgrading hardware, finish Jita, and coddle every other whine that appears on the forums... yeah, loads of extra time) I wouldn't mind it if they took the time to create a tiered NPC system:
For new players, when you join Eve you join one of your factions' universities. You have 4 months in that faction university before they shovel you off to one of the other "more advanced" (see below) faction NPC corps. This is a constant cycle to get people out of the university system.
This does two things: it advertises how long a player has been in Eve, and allows CCP to make wholesale changes to the NPC system, and still insulate new players. That last bit is something that I think every single post decrying NPC corps has forgotten. Sure, there are macro-ers and gankers and all kinds of "exsploiters" in the NPC corps, but there are also a ton of Newbs.
For everyone else, once you leave a player corp, or after your 4 months in a university corp, you find yourself in one of the many NPC corps. These "more advanced" NPC corps could then be restricted as CCP saw fit. Either imposing the restrictions that the OP mentions, or other things. Like taxes, like wardecs. But!! If someone wardecs an NPC corp, that corp should be prepared to fight the empire in question, as well as take a hit to standing with that empire.
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:39:00 -
[50]
OP has a great idea but missing 1 thing. All player corps 100% open and you cannot be kicked form them. That way all the people he wants to kick out of npc corps can be assured to join what ever player corp they want.... Oh wait the OP made a stupid suggestion.
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Anatolius
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin You say nerf suicide gankers?
How about you stop hauling things in standard t1 haulers? a Frieghter and a transport ship can tank long enough for concord to come save the day
CAPTAIN OBVIOUS! HAH! I have you! You're completely dished! I've unmasked your secret identity!
"If God be for us, whom can be against us?" |
Wolf Kiax
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Posted - 2007.01.16 18:58:00 -
[52]
XD this thread is funneh
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DeadProphet
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:12:00 -
[53]
the amount of NPC corp members seemingly 'macro-ratting' in dead end 0.0 systems is out of control atm
Listen to me on BoB Radio Wednesdays 16:00-17:00 & Sunday 18:00-19:00 |
Tarkan Kador
Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 OP has a great idea but missing 1 thing. All player corps 100% open and you cannot be kicked form them. That way all the people he wants to kick out of npc corps can be assured to join what ever player corp they want.... Oh wait the OP made a stupid suggestion.
QFE
I'm not sure if it has ever dawned on anyone who makes all these player/non-player corp threads, but player corporations have the power to include or exclude anyone, at any time, for any reason. I'm not sure that we as members, CEOs, and directors of player corporations would have it any other way.
Because players may be included or excluded from any player corp, for any reason, whether it needs to make sense or not, the game has to provide for those players who are not in player corps. We may not like NPC corps, but it is the price we cannot help but pay in order to choose who is and is not part of our corps.
This isn't a matter so much of whether or not players in NPC corps are desirable. This is a matter of whether corps where players choose who is and is not a member are desirable.
I happen to think they are, and because they are, that alone justifies NPC corps without any other justification. Because if I have the power to dismiss any player, for any reason, then that player has to go somewhere. Conversely, if I am dismissed by my corp, for any reason, I must go somewhere, and seeing as how there is a delay between when one is dismissed/hired, the game must provide for gameplay that is fair, and makes sense.
I object to this proposal for the following reasons:
1. The OP would have your corp directors determine whether you can use the T2 you buy and train for with your own ISK, and determine what you can and cannot fly from your personal hangar, for no other reason than they dismissed you from their corp.
2. The OP would have your corp directors not only be able to steal your assets in the corp hangar by firing you, but also, to prevent you from seeking retaliation at a time and place of your choosing, because you will be unable to attack the slime that canned you.
3. The OP would have everyone who has trained a corporation management skill waste those skillpoints, and get nothing in return.
4. The OP would have CCP unable to guarantee its own game, because too much character advancement, basic functional utility, accessability, and progression is tied up in the arbitrary whim of other subscribers.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:20:00 -
[55]
So you want to kill EVE.
I'm sorry but all you would achieve by these punitive measures is to have people cancel their subscriptions.
There is already game mechanics in place for you to fight anyone you want to ( yes in empire there is a penalty ).
However once you go below .5 there are no Concord patrols and once you go below .1 there aren't even any gate guns. So if you want to seek out that sort of life and encourage more folks to low and 0.0 then start with yourself, stop hanging out in Empire fighting those that are in NPC corps.
Go out into 0.0, give them some breathing room and in time they might follow you.
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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DarkMatter
Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:20:00 -
[56]
Originally by: DeadProphet the amount of NPC corp members seemingly 'macro-ratting' in dead end 0.0 systems is out of control atm
How do they get their loot home?
Can't you probe them down and execute them?
Building the homestead |
Mesacc
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:45:00 -
[57]
Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but arent game mechanics set up so everyone is always in a corp? If you leave a corp, your automaticly placed in a NPC corp?
I cant see the OPs idea working. What happens if I decide to leave my player corp and get defaulted into a NPC corp? will I lose access to my tech2 stuff? I can see what your getting at, but restricting players will only cause problems.
You got to remember that this is a game. People come here (well, I do) to escape the real world. I dont wanna escape to a virtual world full of stupid rules and regulations where I can only play one way. SOE tried that with SWG and lost my 30$ a month. The best thing about EVE is it supports many different play styles. Lets leave it that way.
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Dame Schaifa
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Mesacc
You got to remember that this is a game. People come here (well, I do) to escape the real world. I dont wanna escape to a virtual world full of stupid rules and regulations where I can only play one way. SOE tried that with SWG and lost my 30$ a month. The best thing about EVE is it supports many different play styles. Lets leave it that way.
QFE!
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.16 19:53:00 -
[59]
Originally by: DarkMatter
Originally by: DeadProphet the amount of NPC corp members seemingly 'macro-ratting' in dead end 0.0 systems is out of control atm
How do they get their loot home?
Can't you probe them down and execute them?
It is very difficult read this thread Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.01.16 20:15:00 -
[60]
I got a better idea.
If people are in a NPC corp more than two months they will get their account banned and no possibility to sign up again using the same credit card.
Now that will get things moving. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute |
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