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Tomb ....SAY IT AINT"T SO !!

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Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.12.05 08:45:00 - [1] Edited by: Novo DuPont on 05/12/2003 08:46:33 I am quite saddened that the CCP decided not to have any ships in game that will drop tech 2 items. While I can understand why Tech 2 BP's won't be dropped, the not dropping of Tech 2 items is quite sad. We were all hoping that a new MUCH tougher class of BS's with good cruiser and frigate protection would pop up here and there and that the BS would drop certain Tech 2 items. Now I see that the only source for Tech 2 items wil be Agents. I mean that makes the game not so diverse as it is now. Really wouldn't be that fun of a game if all Tech 1 items only came from Agents. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE could you reconcider Tech 2 loot drops. Heck make them special rare spawns with a BS and 4 cruisers and 5 frigates ONLY after you have killed a bunch of the other types of NPC pirates in certain systems. Make it so the NPC pirate only send out this group if you REALLY upset them and have killed alot of thier ships in a short period of time. ( heck make it 5 BS's, 4 of one type and 1 REALLY tough one) Make the BS alone as tough as fighting a PC BS. BTW will NPC pirate BS's FINALLY be put in at Tech 2 update??? Having to use cruiser parts on BS's is getting QUITE old. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2003.12.05 08:52:00 - [2] And, what about that skill "Reversed Engineering"? ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Sara Kerrigan	Posted - 2003.12.05 08:52:00 - [3] Cruiser rats have already been dropping a very limited number of Tech2 items, such as the -9 ECM my friend got. ______________ The Kerrigan Chronicles
John McCreedy	Posted - 2003.12.05 08:54:00 - [4] I have to agree. What would be good is maybe Tech 2 PC BS with Cruiser support meaning the only way to defeat it is via fleet action. Not everyone has the time to do Agent Missions,especially us CEO's. Make a difference
darth solo	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:06:00 - [5] Ermmmmmmm, well im screwed. Iv never done agent missions, and i have no intention of doing them, sry. bring this in and it will b just another thing that makes me think about not paying ma monthly account. No where did i read, that to get ahead in this, game u must do agent missions.
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:10:00 - [6] We can't have pirate tech II drops. It would just create the same problem that we have now - ie. nobody buys any equipment from the market becauase all the loot is better ! Surely people can see this ?
DREAMWORKS	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:15:00 - [7] lol, no way in hell im going to do 800 agent missions to get tech 2. __________________________ http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:21:00 - [8] Why does everyone seem to be under the delusion that they have a right to tech II ? Buy it from the market or work to get a BP - its your choice. If everyone could get tech II (which is what some of this moaning seems to be heading towards), where would the market be ? We would just have the tech 1 problems all over again. CCP have approached this perfectly. If you want tech II, you will have to put in the hours. If you don't, just purchase it from the market.
vyperpit	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:26:00 - [9] I agree there should be Tech 2 drops but I think it should be balanced. There should be items you will only be able to get from Agents and the same goes for Npc drops. At present if all goes ahead you will have a lot of people doing agent missions making it in my eyes a very boring solo player game. Just look at miner II's how much better they where then any looted or other versions. This was cool but it then made half of eve useless. Every tom ** and Harry went to do agent missions just to get the print. This is all that will happen now no one will do it as a career they will do it because they have no other choice and that is totally wrong. It takes just as much skill to do agent missions as it does to kill pirates. (if peeps don't agree tuff) or should I say just as time consuming. All in all this needs to be spread across all types of play there does not need to be a even bucket of goodies for each side but there does need to be, items that are unique to both ways of life. Meaning that both walks of life are viable for people and that they are not being forced to go down another walk of life as that is their only choice. ---- Fair Fighting Quote stolen from Waagaa Ktlehr who borrowed it from ??? "If you end up in a fair fight, you planned it wrong." (Ehm yeah, or CCP **ed with the scanner again..)
darth solo	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:32:00 - [10] Edited by: darth solo on 05/12/2003 11:34:15 Quote: Why does everyone seem to be under the delusion that they have a right to tech II ? quote] Not everyone, just me plz. And i take it from ur ramblings, that u like agent missions, and have prob done about a thousand of them. My point is no1 told me at the start that i would HAVE to do missions to get all the nice stuff. I have spent half my time blowing up NPCs. thank u viperpit, at last some1 who gets the point of ballance in a game. CCP seem to make it all or nothing. agent missions sucky big time, sry.
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:37:00 - [11] I have done about 2 agent missions in my entire EVE career. I just understand that we can't allow tech 2 to get in such a bad state as tech 1 is. There is NO tech 1 market at present. Everyone just uses rat dropped loot. That is totally unacceptable. Tech II will change this.
DeathStar	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:40:00 - [12] How the hell you know agent missions are going to suck with the new way they are doing them? And it was said in the last Chat log "[19:12] malachlite> MSDborris> How will poeple get Research agents ? not everyone has done a single agent mission and those that have done 100-500+ for a faction / corpation [19:12] hellmar> If you have -1.0 or higher in faction standing you can talk to a research agent [19:13] hellmar> and start doing missions for him/her straight away (doing missions for your research agent increases the research points you gain) [19:13] hellmar> as your standing increases you have change of aquireing better research agent, giving you a better chance of discovery" I havnt done a single mission either, yet above is good news for ppl like us. Its that or we pay OTT prices that everyone will be charging. Death
Fausto	Posted - 2003.12.05 11:42:00 - [13] Edited by: Fausto on 05/12/2003 11:42:22 Hey Darth, don't quit man. You know who'll be the first corp to get hold of tech 2 items once I get my hands on them? You have only one guess man ______ <brainpodder>
Fred0	Posted - 2003.12.05 12:14:00 - [14] WTF!?! Does everybody have to get access to everything for teh W1N? I'm in quite a good position for the new research agents but probably won't do them anyway. If research agents are the only way for tech2 then so be it! Stop whining because you can't do everything. Stop whining because things will filter down to everyone anyway. Sidenote. This game will be the same after tech2 release. If tech2 is make or break for you, you could aswell just leave now. No update will change EVE that much. (sorry for the rant... )
Beeny	Posted - 2003.12.05 12:34:00 - [15] Edited by: Beeny on 05/12/2003 12:35:32 I reckon it should be done through research and it's current implementation is fine. You get plenty moola from killin rats so go buy the tech. Tho it would be nice if rat loot was better than just droppin bits and pieces of equipment, maybe components for research. By this I mean that you can find a fragment of something cool and give/sell to a researcher. The more components the better the chance of getting something back. This way rat loot would still have a market value. Just my 2p.
Karol Kei	Posted - 2003.12.05 13:53:00 - [16] I think the whole point of tech 2 is to create versatility to the game. No, I don't think it is getting new and better toys, since those are relative to each other anyway. Tech 2 should give a long standing incentive for mission runners - like there was with the implant/bp craze. Tech 2 should also bring in researchers and manufacturers. Fighters can still do what they do. Fight. But they will not automatically be best at everything else as well, unlike now. A few lousy skills and teh kill4h is suddenly as good an industrialist or scientist as a player dedicated to such a career. Versatility is good. Having it all, winning if you like, is bad. Just look around and see all the people that are bored because there is nothing to accomplish anymore. And just for the record, I don't like agent missions and while I initially thought I would be an scientist/industrialist I have scrapped the scientist part. And I am very happy I was/will be forced to do so. I will be forking the ISK for the prints, instead.
SwitchBl4d3	Posted - 2003.12.05 14:09:00 - [17] hmm, what about people that play this game on recreational time i.e 1-2 hours per week. I personally havent got the time nor the retardedness to sit on a computer 23/7 just to get tech 2 items. As it goes i never mine i just NPC farm for cash and buy all my mins off the market to make my ships. "Teh lord of Nonni"
Deloup Drakar	Posted - 2003.12.05 14:16:00 - [18] Quote: I have spent half my time blowing up NPCs. The that is what you will do Darth, from the sounds of it you'r not trying to specialize in manufacturing anyway. Once tech 2 comes out, it'll seperate the feild finally. Those who want to blow things up, will have to just buy it from the people who have devoted their character to being able to build tech 2 stuff. The last person to think everyone should be the same and tried to force it upon the world lost that argument. So why should we in Eve continue to all be the same once tech 2 comes out. Right now, everybody can due everything, which really makes no sense. Let them release the tech 2 stuff however they wish and let those who wish to specialize in those types of feilds go ahead and get the skills/bps. If you don't like how that path is, yet you want tech 2 skills/bps/items, then like someone else said, buy it.
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.12.05 14:41:00 - [19] If you don't want to use agents then just buy Tech2 stuff off the market. Simple as that. If you specilized all your skills into combat then you're not going to be able to use tech2 BPs anyway. NPC hunters were never ment to be the center of the economy anyway. Having Tech2 drops would ruin CCPs attempt to correct this. I don't think Tech2 items should be droped untill near the release of Tech3. BTW NPC pirate battleships will be added to Chaos soon according to TomB so you will probably get some nice battleship loot off of them.
Caelian	Posted - 2003.12.05 16:22:00 - [20] Quote: hmm, what about people that play this game on recreational time i.e 1-2 hours per week. I personally havent got the time nor the retardedness to sit on a computer 23/7 just to get tech 2 items. As it goes i never mine i just NPC farm for cash and buy all my mins off the market to make my ships. Well then you can NPC farm for cash and buy T2 items from people who do have the BPs. I sincerely hope CCP will keep their stand on T2 and not give in to 'we want it all'.
k0uri	Posted - 2003.12.05 17:29:00 - [21] Quote: I have to agree. What would be good is maybe Tech 2 PC BS with Cruiser support meaning the only way to defeat it is via fleet action. Not everyone has the time to do Agent Missions,especially us CEO's. Well, not everyone is supposed to have tech 2 bps "I think, therefor I am" - Descartes
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.12.05 18:35:00 - [22] Imposter! The basic problem is that both manufactors and hunters want that their jobs will be worthwhile. (On a sidenote - WoW has a good solution there. The raw materials for manufactors come to a level from monsters. So the hunters can far and sell their loot to the manufactors - both sides are happy.) Sure, the hunters can buy their items from their bounty money. Trouble is that the bounties are way to low - with effecient chaining gone you make more money with mining. We need either bigger bountys, again more frequent spawns or...more valuable drops. If the drops are not worth anything you can as well remove them alltogether, all they produce then is lag. Suggestion: Bounties increasing by ~ +50% Tech 2 drops, but: NO common drops, only advanced ones. Everything which can be built will not be dropped, only more advanced items. For example, a tech2 250 rail won't be a possible drop, but a tech2 250 carbide would be. And before I get flamed to a cinder by manufactors: Those droppes should be rare. Not rare as it was so far, but RARE. If someone does PVE several hours a day for one month his chance to find a tech2 250 gauss should be around 50:50. This should solve several problems: - No flodding of the market with manufactorable items being sold under their production cost which was IMO the main reason because item manufactoring crashed. - No endless grazing on thousand of cans, which all have crap in them anyway. A can drop of a ship should be rare and should result in a "Cool! Cool! Cool! I found something special!" feeling. That way manufactors and hunters will have their income and have a possibility to be happy. free speech not allowed here
PERCYDAMAN	Posted - 2003.12.05 19:14:00 - [23] yes, when they release tech 2, they should adjust the loot tables to drop good tech 1 loot a lil more often. not a ridiculous amount, but enough to be noticeable
Ayako	Posted - 2003.12.05 19:30:00 - [24] Err, everyone calm down, you don't need to do 800 missions if you don't want to. You can get access to any agent you want as long as your faction standings is good enough! Surely, killing all those millions of pirates must have given you some decent faction standing! When the new patch comes in, you can just show up at an agent that accepts ppl with your standing and say "Hey, let's research this stuff" and as long as you have the skills (that ppl doing missions will most likely sell to make some isk), you can research stuff too.
McWatt	Posted - 2003.12.05 20:27:00 - [25] this is how timing should be done: 1. very limited drops of tech 2 items 2. introduction of BPs 3. new rare pirate drops, even more limited drops of tech 2 and yes, i think most drops should be changed to good old "metal alloys" (but that s what tech 1 stuff will be soon anyway)
Tyria Evenstar	Posted - 2003.12.05 20:49:00 - [26] Edited by: Tyria Evenstar on 05/12/2003 20:51:58 The people who take the time to do research agent missions, even if they do get tech2 blueprints out of it, will have to train new skills to do so and probably new skills construct the items. These new skills also require quite a few skills at lvl 5, so it will take quite a bit of time for those who don't already have those skills that high to get them there. It seems the fighters (who have posted here) want an easy time out of it, as by wanting tech2 drops, they will not require any new skills to get constructed tech2 items. Not having them as pirate loot is great news. Fighters should only get tech2 through purchasing them off player manufacturers, or changing their character to incorporate doing research agents. That's how CCP have said it's going to be, and I agree.
Deloup Drakar	Posted - 2003.12.05 21:52:00 - [27] Dont' forget, Tech 2 is to be using parts, not just minerals. That said, who here thinks some of those parts might drop from pirates?
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.12.06 01:45:00 - [28] Edited by: Novo DuPont on 06/12/2003 01:58:50 MY GOD ! Everyone just read parts of my post and started flaming away. Before you want to disagree with something you might want TO READ IT ALL FIRST!!!!! I never said or asked to make Tech II dropped loot easy to get. First off I said a player/s will have to kill ALOT (few hundred) of the Tech I NPC cruisers to even have the CHANCE of a special spawn. Then that special spawn would be a VERY tough one to fight, would only drop ONE Tech II ITEM, no BP's, and even then they won't always drop Tech II items. In this way you won't have Tech II items flooding the market and ruining it. On top of all this there HAS to be diversity in EVE that ALL player types have the chance to get some items. Whether they beg, borrow, buy, aquire, steal or make them is not the point. The only reason the the Tech I market is messed up cause it has been MANY MANY months of people killing NPC's. That many ships, who at times drop MULTIPLE Tech I items per ship, will eventually flood the market. To say that people who get Tech II BP's and Items from agents will not flood the market is a RIDICULOUS statement. Only been a short time since Implants have been in game and look at how much their prices dropped. Given enough time all items will will drop in price no matter how you get them. THE MAIN REASON for this is because there is NO WEAR AND TEAR in game atm. When you buy something as long as you don't get blown up it lasts forever. So until wear and tear is put in game Tech II items will drop in price alot within a month of release, no matter how restrictive you make getting them is. Seriously think about it, would you buy a new car if you already had the best model and the newer ones are exactly the same and it never wears out, never needs maintenence or fuel? Don't think you would, short of having a accident and that would be less than 5% of the cars sold anyways. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"
ClawHammer III	Posted - 2003.12.06 02:29:00 - [29] Quote: On top of all this there HAS to be diversity in EVE that ALL player types have the chance to get some items. Whether they beg, borrow, buy, aquire, steal or make them is not the point. Exactly. If you don't want to do agent missions for the BPs then you can beg, borrow, buy, aquire, or steal the items instead. All players will have access to Tech2. Quote: To say that people who get Tech II BP's and Items from agents will not flood the market is a RIDICULOUS statement. CCP has control over what BP are releaced to agents and when they will be avalible. That combined with the many skills and components that are required to make and research Tech2 will mean that it will be a quite a while before the Tech2 market is saturated. Quote: Only been a short time since Implants have been in game and look at how much their prices dropped. Given enough time all items will will drop in price no matter how you get them. THE MAIN REASON for this is because there is NO WEAR AND TEAR in game atm. When you buy something as long as you don't get blown up it lasts forever. So until wear and tear is put in game Tech II items will drop in price alot within a month of release, no matter how restrictive you make getting them is. I agree with you there. Untill item degeneration is added even the Tech2 market will slowly die due to lack of demand.
Novo DuPont	Posted - 2003.12.06 02:33:00 - [30] SO Claw you then basically agree that a very limited and special spawn for Tech II items won't cause market problems. "To succeed greatly one must sacrifice greatly"

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