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So how are blaster/rail BSes for lvl4s now?

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JonnyRandom 10	Posted - 2011.12.14 00:39:00 - [1] - Quote Since the boost to hybrids, has anyone tried out blaster/rail boats for lvl4s? And how do they compare to projectile/laser boats?
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 2	Posted - 2011.12.14 00:49:00 - [2] - Quote I didn't feel a big improvement in my Kronos, L4 times where not so much different(max -2 minutes in a buzz kill by saving vollys on the elite cruisers and BS and quicker antimatter/thorium switches/reloads). It is still lacking a bit behind other options, be it by selectable damage types and much higher tracking(what leads to better applied DPS) with acs sub 30km or much higher baseline DPS with similar tracking(after the tracking bonus of the Kronos) compared to tachs. I didn't use blaster for pve since years(and then it came mostly down to ratting belts while you where looking for targets).
Goose99 Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 313	Posted - 2011.12.14 01:01:00 - [3] - Quote That is what 10% more dps feels like.
Julia Connor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 9	Posted - 2011.12.14 03:08:00 - [4] - Quote I didn't see any range buff for blasters in the patch notes so if that's what you are looking for then no. Rails on the other hand should perform much better without a doubt.
Jahpahjay Sentient Spacedust 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 05:05:00 - [5] - Quote As far as hybrid boats go, I recently found a kronos fitted with a mwd, blasters, and a web is really fun. It doesn't have the range projection a vargur has, nor the selectable dmg types, but it does quite well in spite of that. Having a +1000m/s top speed doesn't exactly hurt the mission times either... Something else quite useful I think I should share: Even with just one web, I'm usually able to one-shot spider drones. And if you have the mission Buzz Kill, all the rats come to you, so you don't need the mwd in that mission. That means you can switch it out for an extra tracking computer or 2 (bring both script types). Also given the fact that it has a tracking bonus and a really nice web bonus, you don't need to waste any low slots on TEs, which translates to stronger tank and/or more dps. Anyways, not the most flexible ship (if you need range), nor is it ideal for every mission, but quite effective and fun for what it's designed to do (and yes, I believe it's designed to fit a mwd and blasters).
Lady Spank GET OUT NASTY FACE 457	Posted - 2011.12.14 05:59:00 - [6] - Quote It's BSs not BSes. How can anyone take you seriously if you can't communicate clearly.. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
I544CJON35 Aldent Subtilitas Amet 5	Posted - 2011.12.14 06:19:00 - [7] - Quote No "huge" changes. It's nice having some more dps.
Kimmiy Kimasre University of Caille Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2011.12.14 07:06:00 - [8] - Quote Um... I thought they did not buff Large Hybrid guns because their performance was already acceptable. Only small and medium hybrids were buffed as of the last time I read the patch info (a few days before launch).
Archare SKEET ELITE Sk33t Fl33t 24	Posted - 2011.12.14 07:13:00 - [9] - Quote Kimmiy Kimasre wrote: Um... I thought they did not buff Large Hybrid guns because their performance was already acceptable. Only small and medium hybrids were buffed as of the last time I read the patch info (a few days before launch). The only hybrids that were not buffed were capital ship sized guns, (ie. for dreadnaughts and titans)
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 101	Posted - 2011.12.14 08:18:00 - [10] - Quote In regards to the OP; You can now decently fit 425s on a Kronos, they do a bit more damage will sucking a tad less cap and having a smidge more tracking. It's not ground breaking in any sort of way (or un nerfed, they're still not on par, not even close) but at least you don't feel like an idiot flying a rail PVE ship as it's fairly decent. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 1472	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:50:00 - [11] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: It's BSs not BSes. How can anyone take you seriously if you can't communicate clearly.. "Without grammar there can be no accuracy. Without vocabulary there can be no communication." (The EFL teacher has spoken!) GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki
SpaceSquirrels 28	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:35:00 - [12] - Quote Still hard to get any sort of cap over a minute with a MWD which is needed on blaster boats. Even with boosters the longer missions or ones with huge gaps between mobs is a PITA. Rails I have yet to try, but me thinks would be better overall just due to not needing a MWD.
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 101	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:37:00 - [13] - Quote SpaceSquirrels wrote: Still hard to get any sort of cap over a minute with a MWD which is needed on blaster boats. Even with boosters the longer missions or ones with huge gaps between mobs is a PITA. Rails I have yet to try, but me thinks would be better overall just due to not needing a MWD. If you do lvl 4s for income you don't fit blasters. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 1472	Posted - 2011.12.14 15:00:00 - [14] - Quote Vachir Khan wrote: SpaceSquirrels wrote: Still hard to get any sort of cap over a minute with a MWD which is needed on blaster boats. Even with boosters the longer missions or ones with huge gaps between mobs is a PITA. Rails I have yet to try, but me thinks would be better overall just due to not needing a MWD. If you do lvl 4s for income you don't fit blasters. If you do lvl 4s for income, you're doing it wrong GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki
vorneus Hub2 10	Posted - 2011.12.14 19:57:00 - [15] - Quote Can't speak for the Kronos, as I've never (nor ever will) fly one, but rails in general are much better. Medium rails still pretty much blow, but that's as much because there just isn't a decent platform to use them on. Large rails however I'm finding very nice indeed since the patch - I can fit 5 x 425mm rails comfortably on my shield buffer Domi with lows full of magstabs and TE's. Rails (combined with sentries in this case) are nice for missions because of the relatively low alpha and high ROF, meaning less damage wasted on overkill. The T2 ammo changes for Javelin are also pleasing for those closer (and smaller) targets, and only having 5sec reload time means it's more of a no-brainer to switch as you lose less DPS. So yeah. Go go gadget 1000dps Dominix. Blitzes missions in no time :) -Ed
Fronkfurter McSheebleton Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 28	Posted - 2011.12.15 14:39:00 - [16] - Quote Macha and Vargur still beat the vindi and kronos at serp missions : /
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 107	Posted - 2011.12.15 15:06:00 - [17] - Quote Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote: Macha and Vargur still beat the vindi and kronos at serp missions : / http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/790/vargkron.jpg Proper Vargur against a proper Kronos (green), neither is using drones. Target is a non AB Kronos, similar graphs happen with a BC as target as well. Not saying kronos is really crap but it's certainly not on par. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Nyro Akirason Dead Space Crawlers 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 17:23:00 - [18] - Quote I am flying a Rohk for the first time in years since the buffs were installed. The damage output of the 425mm Prototypes is acceptable. Keep in mind, I am in the process of training for T2 425's which will push my current 609 DPS to well over 700 DPS. MIght be somewhat sub-standard compared to other battleships, but I don not mind.
Julia Connor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 9	Posted - 2011.12.15 17:40:00 - [19] - Quote Rails are now on 1400mm and mega beam dps levels with the new buffs but tachys [self imbibed energy destabilizer with insane dps]
Munio J Makeanen United Starbase Systems 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 17:56:00 - [20] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Lady Spank wrote: It's BSs not BSes. How can anyone take you seriously if you can't communicate clearly.. "Without grammar there can be no accuracy. Without vocabulary there can be no communication." (The EFL teacher has spoken!)
Frillo Teslar High Flyers RED.OverLord 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 18:15:00 - [21] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: It's BSs not BSes. How can anyone take you seriously if you can't communicate clearly.. so.. battleshipes...
Drew Solaert University of Caille Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:48:00 - [22] - Quote Your stock standard Mega has improved, you can now get a full rack of 425mm's, large armour rep and 100mn afterburner on without breaking a sweat so controlling range just became a ton easier and as such applied dps has increased.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 2	Posted - 2011.12.16 09:14:00 - [23] - Quote Drew Solaert wrote: Your stock standard Mega has improved, you can now get a full rack of 425mm's, large armour rep and 100mn afterburner on without breaking a sweat so controlling range just became a ton easier and as such applied dps has increased. You could fit this all before, the tricky part was getting the 50 CPU for the drone link to apply sentry's up to 80km. Btw, people still doing the 100mn to drop transversal in L4 like with the old arti fittings instead of just using a fitting that can track stuff properly?
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 107	Posted - 2011.12.16 09:23:00 - [24] - Quote The Djego wrote: Btw, people still doing the 100mn to drop transversal in L4 like with the old arti fittings instead of just using a fitting that can track stuff properly? Uuhm, rails are gonna have issues within 15km with orbiting targets so lowering your angular will always help, even on a tracking bonused BS with 2 TCs. There's a few ways to solve it; one is to burn away but me personally I use a web on my Kronos. Either way, by trying to do so you increase applied dps which is always smart so your reaction makes zero sense. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 2	Posted - 2011.12.16 10:11:00 - [25] - Quote Vachir Khan wrote: The Djego wrote: Btw, people still doing the 100mn to drop transversal in L4 like with the old arti fittings instead of just using a fitting that can track stuff properly? Uuhm, rails are gonna have issues within 15km with orbiting targets so lowering your angular will always help, even on a tracking bonused BS with 2 TCs. There's a few ways to solve it; one is to burn away but me personally I use a web on my Kronos. Either way, by trying to do so you increase applied dps which is always smart so your reaction makes zero sense. Trust me I have seen a lot people ABing all over the place making her BS hit somehow, while refusing to fit up a proper number of tracking and damage mods to get around a problem that doesn't really become one with this mods on the ship. In the standard L4 scenario npcs will fly in a straight line from her spawning point to your position, giving you the opportunity to apply the dps rather well and avoiding the problem if you take down the ships that you will have issues to track later on. If you now use mobility to reduce transversal to one of them, you at the same time mostly increase it towards the other targets, what again needs adjustments after you are done with the target, and costs you in many cases more time than you will by the better applied damage. Overall if you compare the Kronos(Rails) to the Pala(Tachs) in this situations, the pala with the same tracking suffers a lot less from it, because it can apply far better dps in the situations while it hits good, what for the most part is enough to nearly compleetly avoid situations where it doesn't. If you have missions where npcs are so close that you can't do this properly, a short range fitting with lasers or acs would be the proper solution or using like you the Kronos, that can cover the 1-15km area by the web and only got the 16-25km area where it considerably loses dps in a normal fitting(2 TCs).
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 107	Posted - 2011.12.16 10:24:00 - [26] - Quote The Djego wrote: or using like you the Kronos, that can cover the 1-15km area by the web and only got the 16-25km area where it considerably loses dps in a normal fitting(2 TCs). Exactly, so people who don't have a bonused web and can't make use of OP scorch or 72km falloff on ACs (ie, hybrid ships) will have to come up with a solution. Fitting blasters in most of those missions won't work due to spawns at range, unless you like refitting halfway a mission. So fitting an AB with a "keep at range" is the next best thing. Not our fault that hybrids are still gimped for pve in comparison to lasers, Acs and missiles and not everyone will have access to things like a Kronos with fed or sansha web. In short, I still don't see the need to bash the kiting strategy for anything other than "lol, you fly something that's not OP" :) Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 2	Posted - 2011.12.16 11:01:00 - [27] - Quote Vachir Khan wrote: The Djego wrote: or using like you the Kronos, that can cover the 1-15km area by the web and only got the 16-25km area where it considerably loses dps in a normal fitting(2 TCs). Exactly, so people who don't have a bonused web and can't make use of OP scorch or 72km falloff on ACs (ie, hybrid ships) will have to come up with a solution. Fitting blasters in most of those missions won't work due to spawns at range, unless you like refitting halfway a mission. So fitting an AB with a "keep at range" is the next best thing. Not our fault that hybrids are still gimped for pve in comparison to lasers, Acs and missiles and not everyone will have access to things like a Kronos with fed or sansha web. In short, I still don't see the need to bash the kiting strategy for anything other than "lol, you fly something that's not OP" :) Don't get me wrong, I don't bash using range and transversal control to make stuff work just for the sake of it. It is just the point that most people start off with a rather bad solution for a problem, than do anything they can to solve it and still end up with a rather dissatisfying result. Technically, what rails lack in pve is quite a bit tracking in combination with a rather mobile hull to dedicate range/transversal or being backed up by sentrys, like on the domi/kronos(that should rather have 5 sentry's + some room for anti frig drones) to archive a reasonable good baseline damage as well as applied dps at medium ranges. With a combination of this you would archive a similar good result like with other solutions. It doesn't matter so much if you have a little bit less on paper dps if the damage application still is good enough to create a comparable result, similar as acs/puls where the higher tracking combined with the high range makes the the preferred option compared to long range guns.
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 107	Posted - 2011.12.16 11:09:00 - [28] - Quote The Djego wrote: It is just the point that most people start off with a rather bad solution for a problem, than do anything they can to solve it and still end up with a rather dissatisfying result. That I very much agree with. On your point about buffing hybrids more I'm not so sure. The only thing I'd really like to see is ships that get an optimal range bonus (Rokh, Ferox, Harpy etc) to also get a falloff bonus. Rather than make Gallente silly OP I'd much rather have them tone down pulse+scorch and the ret@rdo decision to give ACs damage type selection AND the TE/TC buff at the same time, while not realising that this means they should have a good look at AC base stats because of that. If you drop range on scorch and remove the idiot damage projection of ACs a bit then that means drawing them closer into gallente ships, resulting in fireworks (that and the Cane needing a nerf). Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 2	Posted - 2011.12.16 11:35:00 - [29] - Quote While it doesn't matter if you nerf anything around hybrids in eve or buff up hybrids to a satisfying state, the later option would be probably more enjoyable for many people and even easier to accomplish from a balancing pov, since you need to tweak far less.
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 107	Posted - 2011.12.16 11:49:00 - [30] - Quote To me BUFF EVERYTHING MOAR is the chicken way out, balance wise. You mostly end up with silly stuff and everything being the same. I don't want blasters to have more range, I want the strategy of using blasters to work in the usual PVP situations. If that means taking care of things that are ridiculously OP (scorch wtf) then that makes it even better. A good nerf bat may produce whines short term, but long term it's better for variety and gameplay. Imagine what would have happened if they wouldn't have done the nano nerfs but instead had made everything silly fast to "get it up to par with the specific nano ships". You'd end up with silly gameplay for15 yearold ADHD kiddos. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

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