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Samuel Freedom
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:49:00 -
[1]
I mining in in a high sec system with my friend, when someone comes along <insert name> (am I allowed to name them ?). And steals some ore, so I think lol ok w/e.
Then he says do you want it back so ofc I said no, so he carrys on stealing the ore putting it into another can. so I am wondering where his haulers is if its him or his mate or w/e.
Then he blows up the ore ?
At first I said what are you doing and he said I was a macro miner(lol, sad excuse). So after me proving that i wasn't a macro miner, was he just greifing or is this ok pratice. I just thought since he blew up the ore for no gain it might be greifing but he said he does it alot.
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Nash Leigth
Children of Azathoth
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:55:00 -
[2]
As I understood from your post, he thought that you were a macro-miner. In this case, the fact that he blew up the ore could be seen as him trying to discourage macro-mining in general by taking away your ore, you being the suspected macro-miner here - not as attempt to cause grief to you in particular.
Even if he asks for a ransom and then blows up the can if you don't pay, this can be interpreted as him encouraging you to pay up next time rather than trying to grief you by blowing up your ore.
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Sm0kE
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:56:00 -
[3]
Sounds like "greifing" to me. He was not profiting off stealing your ore (except maybe a quick laugh).
Who knows, take it up with the devs cause I don't really get it. You can steal ore, but you can't steal ore and then do with it what you want. What, I can't mine for an hour and decide to blow up my can because it doesn't benefit me in anyway?
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LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:59:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Nash Leigth
As I understood from your post, he thought that you were a macro-miner. In this case, the fact that he blew up the ore could be seen as him trying to discourage macro-mining in general by taking away your ore, you being the suspected macro-miner here - not as attempt to cause grief to you in particular.
Even if he asks for a ransom and then blows up the can if you don't pay, this can be interpreted as him encouraging you to pay up next time rather than trying to grief you by blowing up your ore.
Ummm ya, that's complete bull******. Just because someone thinks someone else is a macro miner doesn't mean jack diddly. CCP can not check people's intentions, they can only listen and judge on the actions. Becuase the thief took the ore and then blew it up, it should be considered griefing yes.
If he ransoms and you decline and then he blows it up, it should not be griefing because he had a purpose and a goal of making isk off of you.
~~~~~~~~~
Caldari. It's so easy a Minmatar could do it. |
Menod Penter
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.18 22:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Menod Penter on 18/01/2007 22:56:20
No Griefing... Because you have the option to 'secure' your belongings.
1) Don't jet can mine.
2) Mine to your cargohold.
3) Mine to a secure container.
It's easy to prevent theft.....
Have a Nice Day :)
Menod Penter - Mayor of Rens
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Nero Scuro
Caldari
Murder of Crows
E N I G M A
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:00:00 -
[6]
There is no such thing as griefing in EVE.
If he blew up your ore he did it for a reason - because it was funny. EVE may be a game, but it isn't trying to feel like one. If someone is an ******* in real life you don't get god going 'omg that's griefing, he's totally banned!', so it won't happen in EVE either.
Just deal with it, get revenge or whatever.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
xHalcyonx
Amarr
EmpiresMod
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Menod Penter
Edited by: Menod Penter on 18/01/2007 22:56:20
No Griefing... Because you have the option to 'secure' your belongings.
1) Don't jet can mine.
2) Mine to your cargohold.
3) Mine to a secure container.
It's easy to prevent theft.....
4) Kill his ship.
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SSgt Sniper
Gallente
Zekarus Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:02:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Menod Penter
Edited by: Menod Penter on 18/01/2007 22:56:20
No Griefing... Because you have the option to 'secure' your belongings.
1) Don't jet can mine.
2) Mine to your cargohold.
3) Mine to a secure container.
It's easy to prevent theft.....
That's not theft that's griefing. If he'd stolen it he'd have made some money instead of spending money to blow it up.
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Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances.
However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first. |
Gaven Blands
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:08:00 -
[9]
Few of the dedicated macro hunters make mistakes like that. I would suggest that he was either extremely green at macro hunting, or just plain lying for the fun he gets from it.
Join channel macrointel sometime and tell us the name. If he is one of us, we'll have to bring him up to speed on practised recognition techniques / acceptable behaviour.
If he's not one of us. Well, sorry you got jacked. Learning is fun. To a point.
I would recommend all miners to at least practise being an ore thief for a week. When you come to realise and understand what you're up against, you'll make a much safer miner. You won't learn it all in a week of course, you might even get hooked! But it's all good in Eve.
If your sig is the best thing you've posted, stop posting. |
Samuel Freedom
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:16:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Samuel Freedom on 18/01/2007 23:13:16
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Originally by: Menod Penter
Edited by: Menod Penter on 18/01/2007 22:56:20
No Griefing... Because you have the option to 'secure' your belongings.
1) Don't jet can mine.
2) Mine to your cargohold.
3) Mine to a secure container.
It's easy to prevent theft.....
That's not theft that's griefing. If he'd stolen it he'd have made some money instead of spending money to blow it up.
Yea he had no way to haul it I think, so he blew it up. Im goin to petition it (this will be my first one) because there have been mixed views and I'd like to know where I stand in regards to this. How do i make a petition and what do i list it as ?
EDIT How would I get incontact with his CEO instead as this may be better than pettioning.
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Menod Penter
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
That's not theft that's griefing. If he'd stolen it he'd have made some money instead of spending money to blow it up.
Movement from one can to another without permission = Theft
Where is it written that economic gain must come from theft?
Again.... "Secure the ore or you'll be sore" (tm)
Have a Nice Day :)
Menod Penter - Mayor of Rens
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Billy Sastard
Amarr
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:19:00 -
[12]
Unfortunately, I predict this petition will fall on deaf ears. A jettisoned can is technically discarded items, and as such, is treated so. You have been given the means to retaliate against someone who has stolen from your trash can, and it was your choice to decline to retaliate. What the thief did with the items after he was in posession of them is totally his choice, and since he had no use for the ore, and no way to move it, he chose to destroy it.
My advice, make friends with a hauler and don't leave ore in the can.
-=^=-
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Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:24:00 -
[13]
if he's not at war with you i'd personally say this is griefing and needs dealing with.
Nothing more tho, and it doesnt mean the stealing is, only the stealing with intent to blow it up purely for no gain (hence the not at war part, if they want to blow up your ore they should declare war).
Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh
Naz: John is a realist
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Menod Penter
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:26:00 -
[14]
Originally by: xHalcyonx
Originally by: Menod Penter
Edited by: Menod Penter on 18/01/2007 22:56:20
No Griefing... Because you have the option to 'secure' your belongings.
1) Don't jet can mine.
2) Mine to your cargohold.
3) Mine to a secure container.
It's easy to prevent theft.....
4) Kill his ship.
This a poor way to secure your ore. As the original resident thief of Rens I have seen way to many failed attempts to regain control of stolen ore after the fact. Most of the time it ends up with the 'victim' losing his/her ship and all their prized modules.
Have a Nice Day :)
Menod Penter - Mayor of Rens
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Strel Samodelkin
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:33:00 -
[15]
There is nothing wrong with griefing. It should not be discouraged.
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Samuel Freedom
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
if he's not at war with you i'd personally say this is griefing and needs dealing with.
Nothing more tho, and it doesnt mean the stealing is, only the stealing with intent to blow it up purely for no gain (hence the not at war part, if they want to blow up your ore they should declare war).
Yea Im not at war as we are in a NPC corp as im new (2-3 months old). I understand ore thieving is a more than viable occupation, its just the blowing it up, I would be ok if he would of flown of with it!! 
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:48:00 -
[17]
I think its funny to be honest.
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -ISD
Marcus Thinks Eve who knew!? |
Feng Schui
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:50:00 -
[18]
as much as it saddens me to say this, since i hate ore thiefs with a passion, your petition won't go anywhere, so in essence, you'll be wasting a GM's time with it.
Few reasons:
1) Jett can mining comes with a risk
2) When he stole from you, you had "Kill rights" on him for 15 minutes
3) He abused no game mechanic in any way, shape, or form.
Now, if he uses Locator agents, and keeps doing this, over, and over, and over, and over, it could be considered grief play, which is not allowed. However, as a one time occurance, its not really griefing (maybe he thought you would get a ship and PVP him after he blew up the can?)
Best thing you can do, is either get a combat orienteered friend to Jett ore for ya, and hang around (10%-25% of ore, depending on type of ore you are mining might be a good "fee" for this) to deter thiefs, or become good at being a "combat miner" 
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Marlenus
Caldari
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
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Posted - 2007.01.18 23:58:00 -
[19]
If that's griefing, I had a miner grief me today. I was sorting through a jettisoned can near this miner, pulling out the better ores -- can was full of a mix -- and putting in my transport, when his drones blew up the can. Oh, the oremanity!
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:01:00 -
[20]
Well, let's break it down...
- You jettisoned your cargo surrendering control of it
- Dude came along and took it trying to bait you into attacking him
- CONCORD system flags him to you giving you 15(?) minutes of kill rights for him stealing from you.
- You chose not to attack (which was probably wise)
So the theft action is now taken care of. You were given the opportunity to seek retribution for his act of thievery but chose not to. Done deal.
Now the ore is technically his.
- He jettisons his ore
- He leaves it in another can and asks if you want it back (again trying to get you to flag yourself) but again you chose not to agress. Good choice probably.
- He shoots his ore since he didn't really want it in the first place, he wanted a fight which became apparent he wasn't going to get.
The end result may seem like he was just griefing because it ended in him simply blowing up what was your ore. But it's pretty obvious (to me at least) that that wasn't what he wanted out of the situation. You just didn't oblige him.
So if you run through other possible scenarios, maybe it would seem a little different...
- What if he took your ore, waited for you to attack, then, once realizing you weren't going to, simply buggered off and sold it? Then it wouldn't seem like griefing?
- What if he took your ore and gave it to some other newbie?
- What if he took your ore, kept it for three days, then came back and blew it up in front of you? You'd probably think we was a pretty weird dork but you probably wouldn't think "griefing"... 
- What if he took your ore, jettisoned it, then left? Hmm.. that's even a little more evil because then you'd be left with that jet can spinning beside you while you wondered if it was safe to take it back.
- What if he took your ore, then jettisoned a bunch of missiles then blew them up?
- What if he stole your ore, then used it to make can art spelling out "I'm a little teacup" over the roid belt?
Anyway, point is that it seems a little weird to me that, once you had surrendered the ore to him (you said, "so I think lol ok w/e"), you'd be offended by what he did with what was technically at that point, his stuff.
Just another way of looking at it. 
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... [OK] ...
zOMG! |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Marlenus
If that's griefing, I had a miner grief me today. I was sorting through a jettisoned can near this miner, pulling out the better ores -- can was full of a mix -- and putting in my transport, when his drones blew up the can. Oh, the oremanity!
 
I LOL'd... No really, my boss almost caught me reading the forums because of that!!
-=^=-
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Maria Ravenwind
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:22:00 -
[22]
People really don't know about this trick, still?
Yeah, its called baiting.
He drops your ore in his can. He hopes that you take your ore back, and it flags you. Then he's able to kill your ship without getting the wrath of CONCORD.
It's an old trick. You were wise to not take your ore back. He destroyed your ore because he didn't want you to have it, and he's a pirate, so he doesn't care about taking the ore.
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Lysit Kaune
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:27:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nero Scuro
There is no such thing as griefing in EVE.
Im calling BS, people do things because they can and just to annoy people, thats griefing. Pirates are, for the most part, the worst example of griefers, most I have encountered have either a) Opened fire with intent to destroy, even the lonelyest Noob ship, b) demanded unreasonable ransom (5 mil for a stabber? Pull the other one, its got bells on it, 2 mil and I might have paid), c) run away at any show of decent resistance (Oh look ctrl Q).
Ore thiefs/destroyers are one step below those kinds of pirates.
Quote:
If someone is an ******* in real life you don't get god going 'omg that's griefing, he's totally banned!', so it won't happen in EVE either.
In my opinion a God should not be involved in anycase, willful destruction of property is an offense, punishable by prison. Thats a poor excuse of someone who doesn't like a fair fight. Anyone trying this in real life would find themselves at the mercy of the law or finding there teeth flow through there digestive system for the next two weeks.
As with anything you get idiots, there are decent ways to do things, even on sites the encourage pirating, ore thiefs are looked down on, its pirating for carebears. And for revenge I find those who find themselves on the worse end of a disgruntled miner who jumped into there combat ship (i.e. me) or called there buddy (me twice) find the griefer invokes the almighty right of ctrl Q.
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Nash Leigth
Children of Azathoth
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: LUGAL MOP'N'GLO
Ummm ya, that's complete bull******. Just because someone thinks someone else is a macro miner doesn't mean jack diddly. CCP can not check people's intentions, they can only listen and judge on the actions. Becuase the thief took the ore and then blew it up, it should be considered griefing yes.
The definition of griefing is doing something in game for the purpose of upsetting another player, make his gaming experience be unpleasant for him.
And that's exactly my point. CCP cannot check people's intentions, and neither can you. So how can you say that this player wanted to grief the miner, and not just try to discourage macro-mining by blowing up his ore? Unless you have psychic abilities and can read intentions printed out in big golden letters over people's foreheads, how can you be so certain he did this to upset the miner and not as a way to discourage macro-mining?
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
if he's not at war with you i'd personally say this is griefing and needs dealing with.
Nothing more tho, and it doesnt mean the stealing is, only the stealing with intent to blow it up purely for no gain (hence the not at war part, if they want to blow up your ore they should declare war).
Agree.
He gained nothing, and blew the ore up only to annoy you.
Grief play.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Dark Nemesis
Gallente
Children of Azathoth
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:44:00 -
[26]
Could also be a rival corp trying to do financial harm or even someone trying to run another player out of the system so they can have more ore for themselves.
There is more than one possibility here than said player gaining nothing, and without full investigation of the facts and motives I certainly wouldn't judge the accused player.
Having said that, the can was his when he blew it up.
OP had his chance to secure his ore and opted for the high risk/high reward option of jetmining, and lost out.
It happens.
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The Gamemaster
Empire Extreme Gladiatorial Extravaganza
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:45:00 -
[27]
Edited by: The Gamemaster on 19/01/2007 00:41:51
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Rod Blaine
if he's not at war with you i'd personally say this is griefing and needs dealing with.
Nothing more tho, and it doesnt mean the stealing is, only the stealing with intent to blow it up purely for no gain (hence the not at war part, if they want to blow up your ore they should declare war).
Agree.
He gained nothing, and blew the ore up only to annoy you.
Grief play.
Had the pirate gotten the miner to fight, he would have gained something.
Had the miner payed a ransom, he would have gotten his ore back, and the pirate would have gained something.
Not grief play.
/Ki
/Edit: This is of course my alt, I am Ki An.
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Riho
Red Wrath
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Samuel Freedom
I mining in in a high sec system with my friend, when someone comes along <insert name> (am I allowed to name them ?). And steals some ore, so I think lol ok w/e.
Then he says do you want it back so ofc I said no, so he carrys on stealing the ore putting it into another can. so I am wondering where his haulers is if its him or his mate or w/e.
Then he blows up the ore ?
At first I said what are you doing and he said I was a macro miner(lol, sad excuse). So after me proving that i wasn't a macro miner, was he just greifing or is this ok pratice. I just thought since he blew up the ore for no gain it might be greifing but he said he does it alot.
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Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Avon
Which ransom was this?
The situation that the OP describes IS grief play.
The situation you describe isn't.
Thing is, they aren't the same, are they?
The miner could have asked for a ransom. I know that's pushing it, but still.
Also, it's obvious that this was a bait. He wanted the miner to engage. The miner was smart and didn't. He didn't take his ore back. Let me say that again: He had a chance to take his ore back, but didn't. That was probably the right move at the time, but the option was there.
I.e. not grief play.
/Ki
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Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 00:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Samuel Freedom
I mining in in a high sec system with my friend, when someone comes along <insert name> (am I allowed to name them ?). And steals some ore, so I think lol ok w/e.
Then he says do you want it back so ofc I said no, so he carrys on stealing the ore putting it into another can. so I am wondering where his haulers is if its him or his mate or w/e.
Then he blows up the ore ?
At first I said what are you doing and he said I was a macro miner(lol, sad excuse). So after me proving that i wasn't a macro miner, was he just greifing or is this ok pratice. I just thought since he blew up the ore for no gain it might be greifing but he said he does it alot.
Griefers should be given a warning or something for destroying new players experience.
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Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria!
Kali is for KArebearLIng.
I 100% agree with Avon.
Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game. |
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