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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.01.19 04:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
I guess you haven't encountered any of those 10km/s crows that seem to be all over TQ after the patch. The warriors don't get anywhere close.
That's a problem too, though trying to fix everything in the game in one thread is going to be challenging to say the least. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Ice Conch
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Posted - 2007.01.19 04:46:00 -
[32]
as a nosadomi pilot, i heavily approve
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.01.19 04:49:00 -
[33]
So Weirda wants the Bhaalgorn to be nerfed?
~Thor Xian, Material Defender
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 04:51:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Remind me to laugh at the first person that loses an Interceptor after these changes.
It's a very good point. However there will still be adaptations available to BS pilots, like fitting Neuts or Medium NOS. Sure, those won't be nearly as effective as Heavys vs. other Battleships, but that's where the interesting choices and teamwork come in.
No, the problem is those are useless versus intys as well. You do turn off one cycle, and on a rosy day in you're-really-lucky-land he might drop his disruptor too. However, 24 seconds is enough to regen cap for another MWD cycle (some skills required - the base regen of the inty needs to be higher than 1.4 cap/s [note : this is not peak regen, but base]).
So the only alternative to actually kill an Interceptor is to spend about 800 cap with 0 return per inty, and 2 highslots. And just as it is now, if the pilot isn't bad and has some semblance of preparation he'll live 9/10 times.
Heavy Nosferatus offensive effectiveness and versatility should stay, possibly at the cost of some income and a slight but non-dramatic malus for over-nossing, like say losing whatever cap was unavailable to be siphoned instead of gaining it. It's a rather minor detail as is, as inter-class balance right now is somewhat reasonable and heavy nos only dominate equal classes in extremely artificial scenarios. Call me totally crazy, but someones ego on the testserver taking a hit because 1v1s are gimmickfests does not make a great reason to drastically change interclass balance.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.01.19 05:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Shandling Edited by: Shandling on 19/01/2007 02:32:02 Great idea. Would make people think before just tossing NOS on.
This could open a door for mods too.. how about passive lows that decrease the amount of energy drained in trade for a faster 'firing time' on the NOS? Something like...
-15% NOS Cycle Time -15% Cap Drained per Cycle
That would keep the energy per second drained the same and allow the player to keep the target's cap lower... while taking up a low slot.
i love this idea kthx __________________________________ Please, please, please can we have an item DB update? |
Altai Saker
Omniscient Order
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Posted - 2007.01.19 05:06:00 -
[36]
I'm sorry if I misunderstood but what I got out of that post, was that basically you'd be left with about 100~ cap on your ship?
So in a geddon I could maybe do 3 more shots ? http://www.omniscient-order.com/
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.01.19 05:23:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Altai Saker I'm sorry if I misunderstood but what I got out of that post, was that basically you'd be left with about 100~ cap on your ship?
So in a geddon I could maybe do 3 more shots ?
better than none, and cap regen at 100 cap is more than 0.
Ammar are more medium range, this helps them indirectly, becuase this means you can actually have somebody tackle for you that has a decent chance to hold them down long enough to kill them. That is at least 1 mid slot free. Get another frig hull to get a webber on them, and now you are out of blaster range, and can stay there.
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Siakel
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Posted - 2007.01.19 05:43:00 -
[38]
It's a nice idea... but the Amarr seem to become even more the most vulnerable-to-nos race in the game. Since they have the highest capacitor and the slowest recharge time, it leaves the smaller Amarr ships hurting because while another race's Frigate might be running at peak recharge under Heavy Nos amount, the Amarr Frigate would be sitting right at Heavy Nos amount. And if they are under the Nos-Amount and protected from nos, they're generating the least cap/second of any race, because they're further away from optimal recharge.
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Forum Troll
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Posted - 2007.01.19 06:14:00 -
[39]
/signed
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Axitikus
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:01:00 -
[40]
How about instead of actually "sucking" cap Nos will increase your recharge rate and reduce theirs. If they dont use any cap, they dont lose it, but you still gain some.
Also, put a stacking penalty on nos, similar to damps. The first nos would give you X amount of cap recharge, the 2nd fitted would give you about half of that, the 3rd half of the value the 2nd is giving you, etc. (havent't figured out about mixing sizes but cut me a break, I just came up with this)
~When I can use Drones as Blaster ammo, then I'll be truly happy~ |
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skepsiss
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:10:00 -
[41]
Edited by: skepsiss on 19/01/2007 07:07:17 how about we ask ccp to make only 1 type of ship for each race, with no bonus, and only 1 gun in the game, with default ammo built in, think that could make you people stop whining for a change ? I mean you're like : zomfg, I spent countless bils on my Evilz0r setup and that motherf* amarr curse just sucked me dry so I lost my setup *whiiiine cryyyy zomg omfg*. So instead of asking myself why am I such a dumb arse, I should go on the forums and whine a bit, doesnt matter that my whining will ruin the play of an entire race that only has 2 ships working ( yeah, curse and pilgrim), but I will be *ev1l* again, and I will pawn. Hmm, and while I am here I could whine a bit about nanos and istabs aswell, wtf, they are overpowered, why can't I go 3.5km/s with my evil domi ab but they can ?! *omfg zomg cry*
Q F T and go play.
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Redginald
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:22:00 -
[42]
You've got my vote
I also completely agree that it will make Cap Fluxs a lot more useful. This would be a very nice change without actually "nerfing" them but making them operate the way they really should.
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Thud
Caldari Mad-Warping-Maniacs
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:26:00 -
[43]
In my opinion,the main problem with nos is that they drain cap AND give it to you. Thats like 2 weapons in one,and since cap is mutch more important now than it was like a year ago,thats just overpowerd,taking cap from your enemy and give it to yourself,thats like a module that steals shield/armor from your enemy and gives it to you.
Nos should drain cap,put not give it to you.
I dont like "you can only fit one nos per ship" ideas,such solutions just limit the possible fittings. (one reason i never liked the EW changes,cos it limits ships like the scorp or the BB to pure ECM ships)
____ ____ My english is bad. |
Phelan Lore
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:30:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Phelan Lore on 19/01/2007 07:26:40 Sounds good. But having to continually spam your NOS once it deactivates sounds like a pain. Maybe it should just work like ECM and not NOS that cycle, but not deactivate.
Sniggwaffe is recruiting |
Da Death
Minmatar Relentless Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:37:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kldraina Edited by: Kldraina on 19/01/2007 02:27:23 I actually really like this idea. It makes large nos less effective against small ships than small nos is, as the small ships just need to keep their cap below 100 to be immune to large nos. I like this idea a lot...
Simple solution: fit medium and small nos and even smallest ships get sucked empty =)
DD
S@#^$%te link broken -($%*
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one. |
Axitikus
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:40:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Da Death
Originally by: Kldraina Edited by: Kldraina on 19/01/2007 02:27:23 I actually really like this idea. It makes large nos less effective against small ships than small nos is, as the small ships just need to keep their cap below 100 to be immune to large nos. I like this idea a lot...
Simple solution: fit medium and small nos and even smallest ships get sucked empty =)
DD
Which makes the ship less effective against larger ships, not a bad thing.
~When I can use Drones as Blaster ammo, then I'll be truly happy~ |
Axitikus
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: skepsiss Edited by: skepsiss on 19/01/2007 07:07:17 how about we ask ccp to make only 1 type of ship for each race, with no bonus, and only 1 gun in the game, with default ammo built in, think that could make you people stop whining for a change ? I mean you're like : zomfg, I spent countless bils on my Evilz0r setup and that motherf* amarr curse just sucked me dry so I lost my setup *whiiiine cryyyy zomg omfg*. So instead of asking myself why am I such a dumb arse, I should go on the forums and whine a bit, doesnt matter that my whining will ruin the play of an entire race that only has 2 ships working ( yeah, curse and pilgrim), but I will be *ev1l* again, and I will pawn. Hmm, and while I am here I could whine a bit about nanos and istabs aswell, wtf, they are overpowered, why can't I go 3.5km/s with my evil domi ab but they can ?! *omfg zomg cry*
Q F T and go play.
I love how every1 ignored this genius and kept the debate rolling smoothly
~When I can use Drones as Blaster ammo, then I'll be truly happy~ |
Da Death
Minmatar Relentless Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:42:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Axitikus
Originally by: Da Death
Originally by: Kldraina Edited by: Kldraina on 19/01/2007 02:27:23 I actually really like this idea. It makes large nos less effective against small ships than small nos is, as the small ships just need to keep their cap below 100 to be immune to large nos. I like this idea a lot...
Simple solution: fit medium and small nos and even smallest ships get sucked empty =)
DD
Which makes the ship less effective against larger ships, not a bad thing.
you mean it makes it effective against EVERY ship, just add one neutralizer if you really need.
S@#^$%te link broken -($%*
All generalizations are dangerous, even this one. |
Axitikus
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:47:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Nyxus I am very very leery of most nos posts becuase if the curse loses nos it will turn into the suck. Especially since TD's are relatively underpowered to all EW except for Painters. Matari and Amarr 4tw.
But I like it. The Curse stays good, nos domi's not so "afk, tell me when baddies are dead".
The Curse change needs to make sure that it doesn't reduce the total nos amount it has now. Maybe even boost it again. Would also like to see the pilgrim get a range bonus over an amount.
I dont want to derail the thread but right now TD's are the best EW if you only have slot left, SD's need multiple slots to really shine, TP's stink, and ECM now needs low slot mods fitted and ship bonuses too.
Weirda rules, Caldari drools!
Nyxus
~When I can use Drones as Blaster ammo, then I'll be truly happy~ |
Axitikus
Minmatar The Priory Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.19 07:49:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Da Death
Originally by: Axitikus
Originally by: Da Death
Originally by: Kldraina Edited by: Kldraina on 19/01/2007 02:27:23 I actually really like this idea. It makes large nos less effective against small ships than small nos is, as the small ships just need to keep their cap below 100 to be immune to large nos. I like this idea a lot...
Simple solution: fit medium and small nos and even smallest ships get sucked empty =)
DD
Which makes the ship less effective against larger ships, not a bad thing.
you mean it makes it effective against EVERY ship, just add one neutralizer if you really need.
I meant it wont suck cap against another large ship quite as fast as if it had all heavy nos fitted.
~When I can use Drones as Blaster ammo, then I'll be truly happy~ |
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Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente Does Not Compute
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:21:00 -
[51]
I must say Wierda your talking in 3rd person confuses me....
But, Signed.
Brilliant idea, And a nice resolution given to the 'braking' of the Curse that most NOS nerf idea's have. Really well thought out idea
Alliaanna [FOR SALE]25Mill Sp Amarr Char + Hauler Alt
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Dixon
Caldari Hells Donkeys
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:30:00 -
[52]
I think nos needs to be hit harder tbh, we need resistance mods as well. But this idea is great for smaller ships, IMO battleships should be vulnerable to interceptors. __________________________________________________
Originally by: Cmdr Sy So here is the state of Amarr tech. Nos, plate, EANM and a tracking disruptor - pick two out of four and counter all setups.
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Grimpak
Gallente Twisted Attitude Apocalyptica.
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Originally by: Grimpak
indeed. the I win button vs tacklers is a swarm of T2 warriors. thos things are scary and can practically nullify any tackler in a few moments. edit: and I agree with weirda. weirda for pres/PM/king/queen/emperor/empress/god/whatever!
I guess you haven't encountered any of those 10km/s crows that seem to be all over TQ after the patch. The warriors don't get anywhere close.
never said it was perfect, and tbh drones already have many drawbacks as it is, wich imho makes them balanced vs other ships (not counting with the ECM nosdomi of doom here btw)
but I have to agree that thos 10km/s crows are a bit insane. -------
Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
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Dexter Rast
Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:53:00 -
[54]
neuts already have a draw back, nos are win win situation, add stacking penalty to nos and all will be well,
anything that gives your ship a boost while crippling another ship is well out of balance, nos have been a must have module for far too long now, evidence of this was seen clear in the last alliance tournament,
they dont function with any rules that turrets or launchers use, they hit 100% of the time aslong as your in range, they have no counter that says `hey you cant nos my ship`, at the very least we should have a nos shield module that prevents or greatly reduces the effrects of energy warfare, kinda like a hardner agaisnt nos attacks, maybe a 50% reduction active nos shield,
still i like alot of weirda`s ideas, well thought out and kinda sensible for EO forums anyway ------------------------------------------- |
Asuo
Elite United Corp Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2007.01.19 08:59:00 -
[55]
Yep I love this idea. You'd get a chance to fight back even if only a small one.
And making more people use neuts can't be bad. ----------------------------------------------- EECC recuitment thread. |
Ernest Graefenberg
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.19 09:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Da Death
Originally by: Kldraina Edited by: Kldraina on 19/01/2007 02:27:23 I actually really like this idea. It makes large nos less effective against small ships than small nos is, as the small ships just need to keep their cap below 100 to be immune to large nos. I like this idea a lot...
Simple solution: fit medium and small nos and even smallest ships get sucked empty =)
DD
Medium nos only goes out to 12k, so that is entirely worthless.
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Kano Sekor
Amarr S-44 Tre Kroner
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Posted - 2007.01.19 09:32:00 -
[57]
I kind of like the idea, but then again i just think of interceptors as get in close (fast) and then get a thigh orbit and thats what intys are supposed to do but some ppl dont think so. And face it the only reason why i hate nos the way it is now is that web+haevy nos => insta dead intys and im mainly a inty pilot. So lets see
1. Whine about nos (check) 2. Whine about drones wtfpwning intys (need to do) 3. Whine about no counter to web (need to do)
oh btw pls notice the sarcasm
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Avataris
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Posted - 2007.01.19 09:42:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg Remind me to laugh at the first person that loses an Interceptor after these changes.
It's a very good point. However there will still be adaptations available to BS pilots, like fitting Neuts or Medium NOS. Sure, those won't be nearly as effective as Heavys vs. other Battleships, but that's where the interesting choices and teamwork come in.
No, the problem is those are useless versus intys as well. You do turn off one cycle, and on a rosy day in you're-really-lucky-land he might drop his disruptor too. However, 24 seconds is enough to regen cap for another MWD cycle (some skills required - the base regen of the inty needs to be higher than 1.4 cap/s [note : this is not peak regen, but base]).
So the only alternative to actually kill an Interceptor is to spend about 800 cap with 0 return per inty, and 2 highslots. And just as it is now, if the pilot isn't bad and has some semblance of preparation he'll live 9/10 times.
Heavy Nosferatus offensive effectiveness and versatility should stay, possibly at the cost of some income and a slight but non-dramatic malus for over-nossing, like say losing whatever cap was unavailable to be siphoned instead of gaining it. It's a rather minor detail as is, as inter-class balance right now is somewhat reasonable and heavy nos only dominate equal classes in extremely artificial scenarios. Call me totally crazy, but someones ego on the testserver taking a hit because 1v1s are gimmickfests does not make a great reason to drastically change interclass balance.
/signed
This man makes sense.
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Trev Kachanov
Sha Kharn Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:08:00 -
[59]
Why not just add tracking to nos? ...
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.01.19 10:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Trev Kachanov Why not just add tracking to nos? ...
Weirda answer that in OP... because... it is ***.
@Curse/Pilgrim/Bhaal... addressed how they would not be getting hit with bat.
@skepsiss congratulation - you used ad hominem, slippery slop AND straw man all in the same useless post. Weirda fly all the ship that you think came here to cry about. God you are stupid (and coming from Weirda - that is to say a LOT)
@"THIS IS TOO MUCH - BS WILL SUCK" no it not, you keep thinking of something sitting at just under 100 cap forever (inty), while neglecting to realize that the reactivation that hit inty w/110 cap will knock it down to 10. it all balance out, and if we have opportunity to test on SiSi, it would likely be fun, new and add skill to the 'skillessness' of the existing Nos. it just doesn't make sense.
@"THIS IS NOT ENOUGH" it make more sense then things do now. What other module can be activate if it do not have enough energy? None. the nos activation energy come from target ship. Weirda feel it will add a (much needed) dynamic to cap warfare.
There IS NO reason that inty should be able to keep someone tackled until downtime, and this change won't (and shouldn't) make that happen. on the other hand, the way thing are now is just silly. imagine if you gun could fire a 20% shot if it had 20% of the energy needed to shoot... or whatever.
@other suggestions there is some good stuff, but all in all, K.I.S.S. is motto of this idea. it use no new or different mechanic then what already exist. in it simplicity it doesn't just become another module that we 'fire and forget' when in range. you will have to manage those suckers, and there will be more to think about. whether you like it or not, it offer better gameplay then what is currently. __ Weirda Nosferatu - Time for Change |
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