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Norris Packard Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:43:00 - [1] I am a gallente pilot and can't really talk about what is wrong with some of the HACs, but flying a deimos on the test server made me realize some of its major flaws. The set up I was using on the test server is as follows 5 heavy nutron blaster2s, med diminishing nos y-t8 mwd,7.5 warp scrambler, 90% fleeting webber explosive hardener2, enrgized adaptive nano2, 2 magstab2s, rcu2, med armor rep2 10% power grid rig This set up was hard hitting and a good quick tackler but it was having major capacitor problems trying to fight in the nos rich enviorment of pvp and the one nos on it was not helping it out much. Flying the astarte into battle I would fit a med electrochemical injector with 800s fitted and had alot less problems fighting the nos boats; this lead me to the idea of changing the deimos from a 6hi/3med/6low slot layout to a 5hi/4med/6low slot layout. with good skills and using rigs I could change the nos to a cap injector and would still have the tackling abilitys that make the deimos worth flying over the astarte. I know that this is not a huge issue and with a nos nerf looking like its just around the corner maybe not needed but I do think it would make the deimos into a better ship. Lastly I know I am not the person to coment on the problems with eagles and sacrilges but they seem to need help more than the deimos
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.01.19 11:49:00 - [2] TBH /signed As it is now, med nos in the highs wont evne keep your guns running. Most cases (people not able to find/afford 10% rigs) they cant even fit a nos. And yeah sac and eagle need a few good tweaks
Turonga Leela	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:17:00 - [3] That seems like a reasonable change, the deimos was boosted not too long ago so I dont know if its wise to mess with it before the other HACs get fixed. But then I am not sure a change in a slot is a boost or not.
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:35:00 - [4] Did you consider using a Vigilant? It has less powergrid and therefor is slightly harder to fit. But on the other hand it's got a built in cap booster, is faster, got smaller sig. And last but not least it's cheaper afair. And by the way: you might want to try the deimos with a small repper or without any. Get up close, pew pew pew, loot and get away.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:38:00 - [5] well, i like my setup atm :) 5x ion t2, med nos mwd, scram, web mar t2, ean t2, exp hard t2, dcu t2, mag stab t2, 800mm plate it has nice dmg... not as good a neutrons but still nice and can tank just abit if not getting nossed. and ill tell u a lil seacret... most of the ppl flying full nos ships in test server DONT use em in real server. NOS/torp rokh whit nanos.... hardly NOS hyperion... nope havent seen one of those yet. nos abaddon... nope. and so on... but might be that i dont get around much :P
Turonga Leela	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:45:00 - [6] The nos dom and nos/torp rohk and phoon are quite common on the real server and even ships like ravens and tempest will fit 2 large nos alot of times the one med nos that I can fit on my ship just can't keep up.
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.01.19 12:49:00 - [7] Beat me to it, yes the nos fittings are common to pvp on the real server. But getting nossed aside, the capacitor injector would help with runing many of the high cap useage mods like mwd and armor rep at the same time when there is nothing close enough to nos.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:22:00 - [8] I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Dragy I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II i don't
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: Dragy I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II i don't Try to kill me somehow ;P or you could try fitting rails, would do alot better imo , but this is for fun ;P
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Dragy I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II I feel the need to check if ur joking or not DE
PMolkenthin Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Riho well, i like my setup atm :) 5x ion t2, med nos mwd, scram, web mar t2, ean t2, exp hard t2, dcu t2, mag stab t2, 800mm plate it has nice dmg... not as good a neutrons but still nice and can tank just abit if not getting nossed. and ill tell u a lil seacret... most of the ppl flying full nos ships in test server DONT use em in real server. NOS/torp rokh whit nanos.... hardly NOS hyperion... nope havent seen one of those yet. nos abaddon... nope. and so on... but might be that i dont get around much :P You must be using a powergrid rig, electrons or bullsh*t. Because that dont fit. Not even with advanced weapon upgrades does it come close.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:48:00 - [13] Thats an exellent idea! Now can we get an extra midslot for the zealot and armageddon please? Oh, and one for the crusader too. ...a second midslot for the retribution would be sweet. Poor old underpowered gallente
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:53:00 - [14] Ahhhh what happend? This was not ment to be a deimos fitting discussion more a layout of slots discussion. Its great that you all have nice deimos set ups, but there are alread fourms on them so post them there. The point of this fourm was to talk about and throw around ideas about what could change to make them more useful. As I stated i think the deimos would be much better and more useful with a change on the slot layout making it a 5hi/4med/6lows. anyway any eagle pilots or sacrilige pilots that have ideas on how to improve them?
guyutte	Posted - 2007.01.19 13:56:00 - [15] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Thats an exellent idea! Now can we get an extra midslot for the zealot and armageddon please? Oh, and one for the crusader too. ...a second midslot for the retribution would be sweet. Poor old underpowered gallente No Problem but we will be taking away a low slot as you normally have an extra one How about that.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:00:00 - [16] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Thats an exellent idea! Now can we get an extra midslot for the zealot and armageddon please? Oh, and one for the crusader too. ...a second midslot for the retribution would be sweet. Poor old underpowered gallente While i totally get your point that you can't just change things to make them uber because ppl want to, i have to thik how many deimos's, eagles and sac's do u see in pvp these days? very few because they're crap so making them a little better would be nice for variety DE
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:05:00 - [17] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Dragy I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II I feel the need to check if ur joking or not DE fitting nano's or inertia's would've been cool, this just sux =P
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Dragy I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II I feel the need to check if ur joking or not DE fitting nano's or inertia's would've been cool, this just sux =P In the era of nano dominance, a ship going 3500m/s with enough cap is vital for modern way of pvp
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.19 14:30:00 - [19] The problem isn't the Deimos or its slot layout. Its injectors, they are now the fourth "must have" PVP item. Before RMR ships were balanced around 3 medslots to fit all the basics (speed mod, scram, web) In Revelations ships are now clearly being balanced around 4 must have medslots. Even Amarr got two 4 medslot ships. So naturally a lot of ships designed before injectors became mandatory now lack a slot. But in Deimos case you can field a pair of Berserker SW-900 and emulate a fourth slot. Zealot with 0m¦ dronebay won't be doing that anytime soon.. Really the only thing which is going to solve this is a total review of slot layouts for a lot of ships, HACs included.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:45:00 - [20] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 19/01/2007 15:43:52 Regardless of how high your skills are (and despite the slight boost in rev) the demios simply does not have enough PG to be fitted well, the Ishtar is a much better ship but you need good drone skills. I would classify the demios as more of a gang ship, as long as you dont need to fit the best guns, ALL the required modules for catching someone (MWD, Web, Scrambler), AND an incredible tank because your taking all the damage you can get a better setup and use a cap injector and drop your nos off.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Dragy Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Dragy I like mine setup Highs: heavy ion blaster II Meds: 10mn mwd II disruptor injector Lows: 4x local hull overdrive 2x MFS II I feel the need to check if ur joking or not DE fitting nano's or inertia's would've been cool, this just sux =P In the era of nano dominance, a ship going 3500m/s with enough cap is vital for modern way of pvp and your blasters are gonna hit super well doing that speed and at that range from ur target DE
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.19 15:54:00 - [22] Originally by: DarkElf and your blasters are gonna hit super well doing that speed and at that range from ur target DE I'd also like him to meet Mr. Vagabond with that setup :D All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:38:00 - [23] details
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.01.19 22:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Norris Packard on 19/01/2007 22:08:48 Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 19/01/2007 15:43:52 Regardless of how high your skills are (and despite the slight boost in rev) the demios simply does not have enough PG to be fitted well, the Ishtar is a much better ship but you need good drone skills. I would classify the demios as more of a gang ship, as long as you dont need to fit the best guns, ALL the required modules for catching someone (MWD, Web, Scrambler), AND an incredible tank because your taking all the damage you can get a better setup and use a cap injector and drop your nos off. The deimos was given a boost to power grid and is able to support much better set ups than it could before when rigs are added in it can fit a decent tank and good weapons. The problem is that it has cap problems thats why I was wondering what people thought about giving the deimos the fourth med slot at the cost of a high slot. As I said before it is not my place to coment about ways to improve the sacrilige and eagle but if you have ideas on them you are welcome to post them, did not intend this post to be only about the deimos.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.01.19 22:22:00 - [25] Edited by: korrey on 19/01/2007 22:18:50 1. Deimos needs - 4th mid 2. Sacrelige needs - 3% RoF bonus (which is a sligh dps boost over the 25% raw damage bonus) 3. Eagle needs - wow eagle needs a dps boost of any kind. Its just pitiful for anything but frigates.
Dragy Caldari Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2007.01.19 22:50:00 - [26] aye with 4th med people would fit 2 pg + 10% rigs. 1436 pg to play with, would be VERY nice mwd, web, disruptor, injector, dual rep and NICE tank. this would help Deimos ALOT
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.01.20 01:58:00 - [27] I dont think the sacrilige needs a 3% ROF bonus, it seems you are trying to make it mach the zealot. The sacrilige should focus more on missle use and armor tanking, maybe give it a 5% missle ROF bonus and 5% missle EM damage give it 4 or 5 missles to use. At the moment the sacrilige is just a crap zealot and it needs to find a role before it can be fixed.
korrey Taurus Inc	Posted - 2007.01.20 04:17:00 - [28] Originally by: Norris Packard I dont think the sacrilige needs a 3% ROF bonus, it seems you are trying to make it mach the zealot. The sacrilige should focus more on missle use and armor tanking, maybe give it a 5% missle ROF bonus and 5% missle EM damage give it 4 or 5 missles to use. At the moment the sacrilige is just a crap zealot and it needs to find a role before it can be fixed. Although the missile idea has been explored, it doenst look like its even being thought about. I would prefer to stay with amarr lasers as my missile skills suck
Karma Coma	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Karma Coma on 20/01/2007 07:17:46 Do the math and you will realize that the damage neutrons do over electrons is so small, its worth squat! Im not joking do the math! Second thing to mention is that the Deimos is not a solo ship and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is the setup Ive been useing for a while and its worked perfectly the whole time. High-Slots: 1-5: Electron IIs (void/null) 6: Med Diminishing Nos (now you can fit a med nos to help with killing Frigs and keeping your cap up) Medium-Slots: 1. MWD (the fastest one you can get; sig radius doesnt matter because you dont fight with it online, just chase them down) 2. Stasis Web (Best one you can afford is recommended) 3. Cap Injector w/ 200 charges (No scrambler, yes, boohoo whine whine. You don't need it for a gang ship: let those interceptors and indictors do their job and you wont have to waste a mid-slot). Low-Slot: 1. MAR II 2-3: EANM II 4: Expo. Hardener II 5: D.C 6: MFS II Im not online right now so I cant give you the exact numbers but my damage multiplier is 5.something; I have 90 kin resist, 80 thermal (these two I know for sure), 75 EM and expo (ones actually 76 and this is with only lvl 3 on all compensation skills (Yes I know I will get too them)) I can go 1300m/s (and something) with the basic named MWD. All in all this setup can both tank and, thanks to the Deimos' great bonus', dish out a great deal of hurt! Conclusion based on my experience: Its fine as it is and as far as half the posters here go how about you actually fly the ship before you post. As far as your comment comparing it to the Astarte... TWO different ship class'... why is a cruiser better then a battlecruiser: 1. speed 2. agility 3. warps faster 4. smaller sig radius 5. much better at being support for bs by killing frigs and drones and in HACs cases other cruisers and BCs. As far as nos goes with this setup when you have a medium nos to nos back its not a problem. I was dueling my friends hyperion today and while, yes he did kick my ass in the end, it wasnt due to lack of cap despite his 2x heavy nos but because the hyperion deals damage like a m.f. when he has a target dual webbed. This was not a short fight, like I said I have 90 kin and 80 therm, so the nos helps. There is absolutly nothing wrong with this ship with the exception of the people flying it. Try to fit it in more of a tank mode - that is after all what revelations is about - give it a try and let me know what you think. I guarentee you will like it. Now go pop some of those other fools who think their neutrons will give them the upper edge when they are paper-thin for minimal damage gain.
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:48:00 - [30] Originally by: Karma Coma Edited by: Karma Coma on 20/01/2007 07:17:46 Do the math and you will realize that the damage neutrons do over electrons is so small, its worth squat! Im not joking do the math! Second thing to mention is that the Deimos is not a solo ship and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. This is the setup Ive been useing for a while and its worked perfectly the whole time. High-Slots: 1-5: Electron IIs (void/null) 6: Med Diminishing Nos (now you can fit a med nos to help with killing Frigs and keeping your cap up) Medium-Slots: 1. MWD (the fastest one you can get; sig radius doesnt matter because you dont fight with it online, just chase them down) 2. Stasis Web (Best one you can afford is recommended) 3. Cap Injector w/ 200 charges (No scrambler, yes, boohoo whine whine. You don't need it for a gang ship: let those interceptors and indictors do their job and you wont have to waste a mid-slot). Low-Slot: 1. MAR II 2-3: EANM II 4: Expo. Hardener II 5: D.C 6: MFS II Im not online right now so I cant give you the exact numbers but my damage multiplier is 5.something; I have 90 kin resist, 80 thermal (these two I know for sure), 75 EM and expo (ones actually 76 and this is with only lvl 3 on all compensation skills (Yes I know I will get too them)) I can go 1300m/s (and something) with the basic named MWD. All in all this setup can both tank and, thanks to the Deimos' great bonus', dish out a great deal of hurt! Conclusion based on my experience: Its fine as it is and as far as half the posters here go how about you actually fly the ship before you post. As far as your comment comparing it to the Astarte... TWO different ship class'... why is a cruiser better then a battlecruiser: 1. speed 2. agility 3. warps faster 4. smaller sig radius 5. much better at being support for bs by killing frigs and drones and in HACs cases other cruisers and BCs. As far as nos goes with this setup when you have a medium nos to nos back its not a problem. I was dueling my friends hyperion today and while, yes he did kick my ass in the end, it wasnt due to lack of cap despite his 2x heavy nos but because the hyperion deals damage like a m.f. when he has a target dual webbed. This was not a short fight, like I said I have 90 kin and 80 therm, so the nos helps. There is absolutly nothing wrong with this ship with the exception of the people flying it. Try to fit it in more of a tank mode - that is after all what revelations is about - give it a try and let me know what you think. I guarentee you will like it. Now go pop some of those other fools who think their neutrons will give them the upper edge when they are paper-thin for minimal damage gain. I was never comparing the speed or firepower of the astarte and deimos, I was comparing the 3 med slots vs 4 of the astarte, my point was that 1 med nos is not anywhere near as good as 1 med cap injector for what the deimos seems to be built for. The deimos discription says "Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee." Yes eve descriptions are not always the best indicator but to me the deimos is intended as a heavy close range tackler, to tackle the deimos needs the web and scrambler. The changes from kali added a greater need of tanking and shooting longer durations there is now a need for capacitor injectors. side note to Karma Coma: nutrons on my deimos have a damage mod of about 11 lol and 5.something is not "so small, its worth squat". Second; why would you ever use smaller cap charges than fit in the capacitor injector? Use 800s

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