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Nerf Nerf Nerf, is that all we get?

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Dante Cyberon	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:05:00 - [1] I Have noticed the switch into revelations came with a utter heapload of nerfs/buffs-gone-bad, here is just a thread to ask why? what could done about it? and to explain some of the side effects that have came with it. Warp Core Stabs - NERFED! - sure, it reduces the amount of pirates camping gates in fully WCS'd ravens and the like, but this is something i have noticed now : While the overall amount of camping in expensive big ships has stopped, more and more people are just bringing in capital ships to gank mining teams. (Myself and a friend both got ganked in 1 week, LAME!) A hit to Cynosural generators? making it so that a capital ship can only jump in X amount of time after the cyno is activated. (will reduce amount of alt cyno openers in frigs and at least "Ganking" would become harder as people would become aware of whats going on). Another thing, LVL 4's just got completely cut off for small corps that can't throw in 4-5 Battleships whenever someone gets one of the bigger missions, Gang System : Buff gone baaaaaaaaad : Sure it means you have to be more tactical, but what the hell is the point in the mining bonus for fleet formation if the person doesnt have wing command, thus cannot command more than 10 people. No longer can you have different people train the gang skills evenly, but 1 person has to have them all (more stress on one players skill planning ) New ships - New - I Saw a thread by a dev a while back assuring people that in no way would the new tier 3 battleships outrank their factional race counterparts. one thing though, what the hell happened with Maelstrom then? its a complete replica (infact its better) than the Machariel, costs about 1/5'th the price AND is insurable/more common/easier to get. * Dante Cyberon forsee's alot of Maelstrom fleets in the near future. only difference being maelstrom = shield, mach = armor, and the machariel is faster, and has OMG 2 seconds more ROF, but at the hit of 2 less guns * Dante Cyberon also forsee's alot of **ed off machariel pilots, ECM - NERFED!** - ok, one thing, and i know this has really hurt EWAR pilots, now, i ask, why dont you just make it so the EWAR ship in question has a bonus making ECM's strength the way it used to be? making it usefull in conjunction with this ship, while making it so that cruisers cant use it as an "I WIN" against bigger ships. (something like "-50% usefullness on non-EWAR ships" but making its starting value what it used to be?) smaller corps got badly hit with some of these modifications, anything under 0.5 is now extremely random, i have seen 10x more carriers in the past 3-4 weeks than i have seen in my entire eve lifespan. i understand why alot of the changes happened, but i just think there is better ways of doing this, like WCS's why dont you look at the war core jams? make them chance based, and please, stop giving the pirates what they want, it happened with MWD's, and now WCS's. what next, you gonna turn jita 0.0? (personally would love to see that) one thing that didnt go utterly bums up was the warp to 0m which has already saved my neck a good few times... i only have one thing to say, dont call me a nub for asking this, dont insult/flame/spam this post. also, please fix the graphics/evemail bugs, they are going my F*%^&&% nut in This is but a simple alt, this in no way displays the thoughts/views of my corporation and/or alliance
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:05:00 - [2] Balanced.
Acinonyx Jubatus International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:15:00 - [3] Seeing jita go 0.0 would be interesting... ^ that's all I've got to say.
Blind Man Kemono.	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:20:00 - [4] ..what the hell happened with Maelstrom then? its a complete replica (infact its better) than the Machariel, costs about 1/5'th the price AND is insurable/more common/easier to get. i stopped reading there - LOL
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:50:00 - [5] Originally by: Dante Cyberon ECM - NERFED! - ok, one thing, and i know this has really hurt EWAR pilots, now, i ask, why dont you just make it so the EWAR ship in question has a bonus making ECM's strength the way it used to be? making it usefull in conjunction with this ship, while making it so that cruisers cant use it as an "I WIN" against bigger ships. (something like "-50% usefullness on non-EWAR ships" but making its starting value what it used to be?) smaller corps got badly hit with some of these modifications, anything under 0.5 is now extremely random, i have seen 10x more carriers in the past 3-4 weeks than i have seen in my entire eve lifespan. i understand why alot of the changes happened, but i just think there is better ways of doing this, like WCS's why dont you look at the war core jams? make them chance based, and please, stop giving the pirates what they want, it happened with MWD's, and now WCS's. what next, you gonna turn jita 0.0? (personally would love to see that) one thing that didnt go utterly bums up was the warp to 0m which has already saved my neck a good few times... i only have one thing to say, dont call me a nub for asking this, dont insult/flame/spam this post. also, please fix the graphics/evemail bugs, they are going my F*%^&&% nut in This is but a simple alt, this in no way displays the thoughts/views of my corporation and/or alliance 1. Post with your main. 2. Get a clue? Warp Core Jamms? lol...Bonus to EW-Ships after the nerf, uhm, did you check that thats ingame actually?
Haffrage Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:50:00 - [6] Quote: Another thing, LVL 4's just got completely cut off for small corps that can't throw in 4-5 Battleships whenever someone gets one of the bigger missions, I'd like to file a formal complaint that my 3 day old alt can't farm level 3's and easy level 4's in his condor. I demand this be fixed immediately so I can get back to making easy isk, mm'kay. -----
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel Legiones Astartes	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:13:00 - [7] I'd like to file a formal complaint that my 3 day old alt can't farm level 3's and easy level 4's in his condor. I demand this be fixed immediately so I can get back to making easy isk, mm'kay. Dude is that what he said or am i going blind? he's saying that small corporations no longer get entered into the equation of lvl 4's, before tops you needed 1 BS (Tank/ kill off BS's) and a few smaller units to kill off webber frigs/jammers or other nasties, now without warp core stabs the minute your jammed thats it, you are gonna die if you need to warp out. now you will need at least 4 battleships well tanked out on any of the missions that jam. (Fine example is angel extravaganza lvl 4 where in room 1 the minute you attack the jamming frigs everyone within 100km locks onto you and is untankable) the only acceptional region to this is amarr missions as most of them give blood raider/sansha missions and both are very easy to armor tank/kill. and bar the fact lvl 3's need an increase in isk rewards, 2-3 mill tops PPER mission doesnt cut it for 2-3 hours on a mission, i also think Angel Strike/Gurista strike should NOT be a lvl 3, as part 10 you encounter 10 battleships and is basically deadmansland in the amarr version. I Also agree with him on the point about the maelstrom. its very overpowered compared to its racial counterparts. Machariel just became a showpiece, that which i am relativly ****ed about as i am an owner of the mach and have had a 1v1 with a mael, he out DPS'd and killed my tank faster than i could kill his. i also agree with him on the Cyno's its too easy for a alt to scout out the system, then open a cyno, 2 seconds later in pops a mothership, sensor boosting locks you down just before you can warp out. its too easy to gank in them and unless you have someone sitting in a carrier waiting to come defend you your retty much screwed. Pirates seem to get whatever they want, just do a little whining. ---------------------------------------------- The Firestorm is here, let that be a known fact
Rangkai	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:13:00 - [8] I kinda prefer missions that require a lot of teamwork to beat. It's more fun.. it's a challenge.
Miri Tirzan Caldari Clan Korval	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Blane Xero Dude is that what he said or am i going blind? he's saying that small corporations no longer get entered into the equation of lvl 4's, before tops you needed 1 BS (Tank/ kill off BS's) and a few smaller units to kill off webber frigs/jammers or other nasties, now without warp core stabs the minute your jammed thats it, you are gonna die if you need to warp out. now you will need at least 4 battleships well tanked out on any of the missions that jam. (Fine example is angel extravaganza lvl 4 where in room 1 the minute you attack the jamming frigs everyone within 100km locks onto you and is untankable) the only acceptional region to this is amarr missions as most of them give blood raider/sansha missions and both are very easy to armor tank/kill. and bar the fact lvl 3's need an increase in isk rewards, 2-3 mill tops PPER mission doesnt cut it for 2-3 hours on a mission, i also think Angel Strike/Gurista strike should NOT be a lvl 3, as part 10 you encounter 10 battleships and is basically deadmansland in the amarr version. I just have to say your wrong. I do all the level 4 missions in a Navy Apoc and while on some I have been forced to warp out after they get too far into my armor, I really have not found any mission that I cannot do solo. It is just having enough of the right skills to do the job. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel Legiones Astartes	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:00:00 - [10] Edited by: Blane Xero on 20/01/2007 10:58:11 Originally by: Miri Tirzan I just have to say your wrong. I do all the level 4 missions in a Navy Apoc and while on some I have been forced to warp out after they get too far into my armor, I really have not found any mission that I cannot do solo. It is just having enough of the right skills to do the job. Yeah and i solo them in the Machariel, but these are not exactly ships the every day person can get thier hands on and like i said, there is a difference between amarr agents and people armor tanking because we start with 60-70% armor resists on em and 30-40% therm, with 2 hardners each those go to 80%+ each... but lvl 4's may be solo-able in the Maelstrom, i really need to check that out as i did some comparing and they are remarkably identicaly matched, and as dante pointed out, the maelstrom is actually more powerfull overall, ---------------------------------------------- The Firestorm is here, let that be a known fact
zeroh Caldari The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Acinonyx Jubatus Seeing jita go 0.0 would be interesting... ^ that's all I've got to say. IT be chaotic for the first week then the trade hub will be Amarr or Yulai (again)
Haffrage Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:12:00 - [12] Originally by: Blane Xero Quote: I'd like to file a formal complaint that my 3 day old alt can't farm level 3's and easy level 4's in his condor. I demand this be fixed immediately so I can get back to making easy isk, mm'kay. Dude is that what he said or am i going blind? he's saying that small corporations no longer get entered into the equation of lvl 4's, before tops you needed 1 BS (Tank/ kill off BS's) and a few smaller units to kill off webber frigs/jammers or other nasties, now without warp core stabs the minute your jammed thats it, you are gonna die if you need to warp out. now you will need at least 4 battleships well tanked out on any of the missions that jam. (Fine example is angel extravaganza lvl 4 where in room 1 the minute you attack the jamming frigs everyone within 100km locks onto you and is untankable) the only acceptional region to this is amarr missions as most of them give blood raider/sansha missions and both are very easy to armor tank/kill. and bar the fact lvl 3's need an increase in isk rewards, 2-3 mill tops PPER mission doesnt cut it for 2-3 hours on a mission, i also think Angel Strike/Gurista strike should NOT be a lvl 3, as part 10 you encounter 10 battleships and is basically deadmansland in the amarr version. Blablabla, I have no concept of dedicated tanks and/or dedicated logistics ships, blablabla. All it seriously takes to run a level 4 mission would be an uber tanked scorp (even T2 could pull it off if you have a fourth guy for extra emergency backup measures ffs), a basilisk, and then a raven with two large shield transfers. Unless level 4's are harder than 10/10 complexes, that is. Which they could be and I wouldn't know. I don't run missions, but I have run in 10/10 complexes. If you seriously can't manage to gather up a battleship, a guy in an osprey or scythe, and then a guy to kill off the level (three people, is that small enough?) then you shouldn't be running level 4 missions. Not only from a roleplay standpoint, but from a balance standpoint. Farm level 3's to get the money and experience (SP and actual) to farm level 4's. -----
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:17:00 - [13] Edited by: Plutoinum on 20/01/2007 11:21:42 Gang bonus for mining gone ? Convert your gang to a fleet, move all people to same squad, make the one with the mining bonuses squadleader. Maybe he needs leadership one or so, don't know. That's what I told our mining director on the 1st Revelation day and then he/his alts had the same bonusses like before. ( Ok, he's got all those skills like mining director and whatever on his tanking char and does the tanking for his mining ops in a command ship with the proper modules. ) ______________ need new sig
falcon14	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:20:00 - [14] I gotta agree with dante and all the others here who are complaining of the nerfs. I am an owner of an Abaddon and love it, but wtf is with the 75 m3 drone bay and smaller cargo hold than both other Amarr BS? I was personally hoping for more than one missile slot as well, i mean, what's the point? :P Oh, and yes, THE MAIL BUG IS DRIVING ME BONKERS I havent actually pvp'd anyone in it yet as it is too precious to me right now so, ill stick to my geddon for now.
Dante Cyberon	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:55:00 - [15] Edited by: Dante Cyberon on 20/01/2007 11:57:13 Edited by: Dante Cyberon on 20/01/2007 11:56:43 Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 20/01/2007 11:21:42 Gang bonus for mining gone ? Convert your gang to a fleet, move all people to same squad, make the one with the mining bonuses squadleader. no not "Gone" but the person needs to have wing command if he/she is going to command any more than 10 people, which in bigger corporations/alliance operations the standard is around 20, no longer can 4-5 people all have different gang bonuses and have them used but 1 person (or more depending if anyone wants to bother training fleet command) has to train the skills to have them effect members of the gang, you then need appropriate skill levels in leadership/wing command to control the correct amount of people, as the chain of command works like this Fleet Commander (His bonuses go to EVERYONE) Wing Commander (His bonuses go to any squads under him) Squad Commander (His Bonuses go to his squad) whoever has the higher out of those 3 is used, instead of just ganging 5 people with each having lvl 4-5 in 1 we now mainly need 1 person with them all lvl 4/5.. pretty pointless if you ask me..
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:08:00 - [16] Funniest post I read in a while.
Taaketa Frist	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:46:00 - [17] You forget to mention that Wing comms do not recieve the fleet command's bonus and Squad comms do not recieve the Fleet or Wing Comm's bonus either must rely on their own bonus. However for all members of a fleet or wing to recieve a bonus from their respective fleet comm they need to have a squad comm and wing command with the apporpriate skill (IE Leadership V for 10 man squad, Wing command V for a 5 squad wing etc etc) -------------- Dang nabit
tekwaan Caldari Mantigen Quanta	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Dante Cyberon Another thing, LVL 4's just got completely cut off for small corps that can't throw in 4-5 Battleships whenever someone gets one of the bigger missions, Hi improve your logistics. Bye.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:25:00 - [19] commenting on the lvl4 stuff.... i can still do them solo in t2 fitted BS.. no faction bollox... and i do em in low sec
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:31:00 - [20] Warp Core Stabs - NERFED! Good. Exactly the effects I wanted to see. Gang System : Buff gone baaaaaaaaad Brilliant. Exactly how it should be, instead of "power buff" teams of alts, now actual leaders need to focus on all their leadership skills. Perfec'. New ships - New Not so good. Lets see a boost to some of the Faction ships, maybe, to get the balance right. ECM - NERFED! Just right. Wouldn't have it any other way. W00t. -----------------------------------------------
Commander Sten	Posted - 2007.01.20 13:43:00 - [21] lol, its called balancing you crazy OP. get off the drugs !
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.20 14:52:00 - [22] Don't mistake nerf for balance. In a dynamic game such as EvE, constant balancing may be necessary to stop players coming up with cookie cutter setups that "win" in all situations. Hence wcs and ECM being changed, on general, use/abuse for them was bad for the game. Gang buff was just that. Now people that specialize benefit. Mining ops jumped by cap ships (lol?) Can't solo level 4's? Get some skills. I know people with ~2 mill SP that could solo anything in a dominix. In summary, the vast majority of your post I disagree with.
Miri Tirzan Caldari Clan Korval	Posted - 2007.01.20 15:11:00 - [23] Originally by: Blane Xero . Yeah and i solo them in the Machariel, but these are not exactly ships the every day person can get thier hands on and like i said, there is a difference between amarr agents and people armor tanking because we start with 60-70% armor resists on em and 30-40% therm, with 2 hardners each those go to 80%+ each... but lvl 4's may be solo-able in the Maelstrom, i really need to check that out as i did some comparing and they are remarkably identicaly matched, and as dante pointed out, the maelstrom is actually more powerfull overall, I dont do Amarr agents. I do Caldari agents and those NPCs are not easy kills with lasers. I dont change my tanking for the NPC, I just use what I have and kill what ever is there. If I can do them with Amarr tech and weapons, hardly the best at ratting or missions (except for Bloods), then a most using missiles and ravens should not have that many problems. Soloing level 4 missions requires skill and knowledge, even flying the mission I win button, the raven. I do not agree that mission runnerers have been nerfed with the changes. I do agree that the rewards have seen steady reductions. svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
d026 Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.20 15:14:00 - [24] Quote: I do not agree that mission runnerers have been nerfed with the changes. I do agree that the rewards have seen steady reductions. i would call this a nerf..
Kanthras	Posted - 2007.01.20 16:07:00 - [25] Originally by: Dante Cyberon New ships - New - I Saw a thread by a dev a while back assuring people that in no way would the new tier 3 battleships outrank their factional race counterparts. one thing though, what the hell happened with Maelstrom then? its a complete replica (infact its better) than the Machariel, costs about 1/5'th the price AND is insurable/more common/easier to get. * Dante Cyberon forsee's alot of Maelstrom fleets in the near future. only difference being maelstrom = shield, mach = armor, and the machariel is faster, and has OMG 2 seconds more ROF, but at the hit of 2 less guns * Dante Cyberon also forsee's alot of ****ed off machariel pilots, The Machariel has a very different slot layout, and a tracking bonus. And that shield boost bonus of the Maelstrom isn't very useful at all in fleets... Besides that, the Mach has a far lower mass and a base speed that rivals some cruisers.
Jaguar Dragon Blood Association of Dragons	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:33:00 - [26] Turn the whole bloddy map RED. this will fix alot more than you realize. would be interesting. alot say all the nerf is about balance, i say thats crap. its about keeping empire players poor and 0.0 in power. just my opinion. lol
pfive	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Dante Cyberon Warp Core Stabs - NERFED! And about time.
Thundercat Doom Minmatar Melissa Jumpclones INC	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:56:00 - [28] Just posting in this thread to see if my portrait is really back. -------------------- -------------------- Flamers are Lamers.
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.21 02:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Blind Man ..what the hell happened with Maelstrom then? its a complete replica (infact its better) than the Machariel, costs about 1/5'th the price AND is insurable/more common/easier to get. i stopped reading there - LOL heh, yeah, i found that particularly funny myself
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.21 03:24:00 - [30] nah, won't reply anything else then this... u got flamed enough already... gl with eve ^_^ Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... Added pink because it was lacking - Petwraith

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