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Two Ideas for Stabs

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Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 10:00:00 - [1] - Quote So, I tend not to complain about game mechanics, but stabs I feel to be a little bit too much. I can put up with them most of the time, and attempting to put enough points on a overly stabbed ship can be an entertaining challenge. I have two ideas to lower the instant out that is the stab, but leave the concept intact. First: Make it a module that needs to be activated and have a cycle time. Make the un-point-ability chance based so that every time the cycle rounds it has a chance (percentage based on skills maybe) to remove point on one's ship. Second: All ships tha fit a Warp Disruptor or Warp Scrambler are unable to fit a Stab. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Manar Detri Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2011.12.14 10:19:00 - [2] - Quote No, and i'll tell you a secret, we have ecm modules and drones..
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 10:22:00 - [3] - Quote Manar Detri wrote: No, and i'll tell you a secret, we have ecm modules and drones.. ECM doesn't HAVE to be the only chance based module. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 101	Posted - 2011.12.14 10:26:00 - [4] - Quote I don't see a problem with stabs, it messes enough with the stats to make it difficult to PVP with and anyone who puts in effort to get away from stuff deserves to have that chance to get away (it's still a chance as you can bring more points or a heavy Dic). That'd be no different from "omg I got ECMed and now the target got away, nerf ECM" or "omg mwd/cloak!!!!", and ofcourse people want this changed as well but that's just a "buff me, nerf everything else" rather than a rational, unbiased view. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Manar Detri Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 3	Posted - 2011.12.14 10:28:00 - [5] - Quote Chance based systems suck, they give no control. Ecm still does the same, drops locks on chance. Furthermore just because you can't point someone enough it doesn't mean the module has to be reworked, i point stabs fine. If i don't then they played their game well and anticipated the correct amount of stabs they would require to survive. Solution, get more points in ur blob, use more sensor boosters in ur gate camp. And whine less.
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:10:00 - [6] - Quote I understand your points, what about the stipulation that you cant fit both a Warp Disruptor and a Stab? It removes that chance based annoyance but still limits the Stab as a whole. That way haulers, ninja salvagers can still have their stabs, but not those who plan on getting in fights. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 214	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:18:00 - [7] - Quote warp core stabs have their advantages and disadvantages. only people who dont want to fight (with the exception of smartbomb battleships) fit warp core stabs. How about you tell us what happened to get your goat up about them.
Lunkwill Khashour Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 2	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:20:00 - [8] - Quote Stabs have already been nerfed. IMO they're fine now.
Norris Packard Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance 9	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:23:00 - [9] - Quote Warp Stabs were nerfed hard to the point they are today to keep them out of PVP, I don't know where you fly but I have yet to find Warp Stabs on a PVP fit ship since they nerfed them. I really don't see the issue, If they really want to stab it kills their range and lock on times as well as wastes valuable low slots.
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:24:00 - [10] - Quote Skippermonkey wrote: warp core stabs have their advantages and disadvantages. only people who dont want to fight (with the exception of smartbomb battleships) fit warp core stabs. How about you tell us what happened to get your goat up about them. Me and a corpmate, Ashen, were out in a Cyna and Drake... found a Dominix and Abaddon moving though system and caught them on the Sis gate in Amamake. Pointed them both up and expected a difficult yet entertaining fight (gate guns would be on us as well). They warped away :P As I said, I can live with stabs. They only take 2-3 kills away a week, personally. I'm just wondering if there's a way to keep their concept but lower their get-the-****-out ability. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:25:00 - [11] - Quote Norris Packard wrote: Warp Stabs were nerfed hard to the point they are today to keep them out of PVP, I don't know where you fly but I have yet to find Warp Stabs on a PVP fit ship since they nerfed them. I really don't see the issue, If they really want to stab it kills their range and lock on times as well as wastes valuable low slots. True, the negative effects of stabs are already decently balanced. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 214	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:28:00 - [12] - Quote a while ago, i was wondering why the T2 version doesnt give you 2 points of warp stability... but i guess that would border on being OP
Shivus Tao Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild 135	Posted - 2011.12.14 11:35:00 - [13] - Quote Stabs could have the same diminishing returns that damage modules have, such that you can fit 2 for +2 strength, but would need 4 for +3 strength and 7 or 8 for +4 strength. This would retain some gtfo ability but would ensure small gangs that can muster a combined 3 or 4 points before you warp actually get to kill you, so it wouldn't be as reliable. This would also render the natural +2 strength on deep space transports comparatively more valuable.
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:54:00 - [14] - Quote Shivus Tao wrote: Stabs could have the same diminishing returns that damage modules have, such that you can fit 2 for +2 strength, but would need 4 for +3 strength and 7 or 8 for +4 strength. This would retain some gtfo ability but would ensure small gangs that can muster a combined 3 or 4 points before you warp actually get to kill you, so it wouldn't be as reliable. This would also render the natural +2 strength on deep space transports comparatively more valuable. Not a bad idea at all. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 215	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:55:00 - [15] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Shivus Tao wrote: Stabs could have the same diminishing returns that damage modules have, such that you can fit 2 for +2 strength, but would need 4 for +3 strength and 7 or 8 for +4 strength. This would retain some gtfo ability but would ensure small gangs that can muster a combined 3 or 4 points before you warp actually get to kill you, so it wouldn't be as reliable. This would also render the natural +2 strength on deep space transports comparatively more valuable. Not a bad idea at all. actually, it is If small gangs are worried about a target fitting multiple warp core stabs they should fly a HIC
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 212	Posted - 2011.12.14 12:59:00 - [16] - Quote Skippermonkey wrote: Jude Lloyd wrote: Shivus Tao wrote: Stabs could have the same diminishing returns that damage modules have, such that you can fit 2 for +2 strength, but would need 4 for +3 strength and 7 or 8 for +4 strength. This would retain some gtfo ability but would ensure small gangs that can muster a combined 3 or 4 points before you warp actually get to kill you, so it wouldn't be as reliable. This would also render the natural +2 strength on deep space transports comparatively more valuable. Not a bad idea at all. actually, it is If small gangs are worried about a target fitting multiple warp core stabs they should fly a HIC Well yeah, HICs are the obvious counter, but you don't always have a HIC with you. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 101	Posted - 2011.12.14 13:00:00 - [17] - Quote Skippermonkey wrote: If small gangs are worried about a target fitting multiple warp core stabs they should fly a HIC Pretty much this. Similarly, low sec camps who bawl about cloak/MWD folks getting away while only flying slow heavy tanked ships is equally hilarious. If you want a better chance to catch someone use a specialised pilot/ship to make it happen. Jude Lloyd wrote: Well yeah, HICs are the obvious counter, but you don't always have a HIC with you. And you don't always run into people sporting 27 WCS either. I'm sorry but it is simply a case or "adapt and overcome", possibly combined with a "deal with it". The same answer you give to folks who you just podded and go "wtf! killing my ship is bad enough, but why did you have to pod me!". Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 16	Posted - 2011.12.14 13:37:00 - [18] - Quote scrams dont work 100% of the time anyway, though they shouldnt be chance basied, ive seen more than a few ships warp out (and then be killed on the next gate, no stabs on the mail) including a pod a few days ago. Yes we all saw the message, yes the modules green cycled. Its a bit too easy to fit stabs, bubbles solved stabs in null sec, but in low sec the use is strong.
Ynot Eyob Nisroc Angels The Obsidian Front 6	Posted - 2011.12.14 13:56:00 - [19] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Well yeah, HICs are the obvious counter, but you don't always have a HIC with you. But then maby 1 of 100 use stabs if even that many. I find them fine as they are to be fair, think iv come across 2 within the past 3 months who was stabbed. Nisroc Angels Nisroc - Angel of Freedom Nisroc is known as "The Great Eagle".
Pamela Podpopper University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:00:00 - [20] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: So, I tend not to complain about game mechanics, but stabs I feel to be a little bit too much. I can put up with them most of the time, and attempting to put enough points on a overly stabbed ship can be an entertaining challenge. I have two ideas to lower the instant out that is the stab, but leave the concept intact. First: Make it a module that needs to be activated and have a cycle time. Make the un-point-ability chance based so that every time the cycle rounds it has a chance (percentage based on skills maybe) to remove point on one's ship. Second: All ships tha fit a Warp Disruptor or Warp Scrambler are unable to fit a Stab. how about just learning to PVP?
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 213	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:06:00 - [21] - Quote Pamela Podpopper wrote: Jude Lloyd wrote: So, I tend not to complain about game mechanics, but stabs I feel to be a little bit too much. I can put up with them most of the time, and attempting to put enough points on a overly stabbed ship can be an entertaining challenge. I have two ideas to lower the instant out that is the stab, but leave the concept intact. First: Make it a module that needs to be activated and have a cycle time. Make the un-point-ability chance based so that every time the cycle rounds it has a chance (percentage based on skills maybe) to remove point on one's ship. Second: All ships tha fit a Warp Disruptor or Warp Scrambler are unable to fit a Stab. how about just learning to PVP? Post with your main so I can attempt to take you seriously. Also, U MAD? Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
Endureth Heretic Army 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:08:00 - [22] - Quote Pamela Podpopper wrote: Jude Lloyd wrote: So, I tend not to complain about game mechanics, but stabs I feel to be a little bit too much. I can put up with them most of the time, and attempting to put enough points on a overly stabbed ship can be an entertaining challenge. I have two ideas to lower the instant out that is the stab, but leave the concept intact. First: Make it a module that needs to be activated and have a cycle time. Make the un-point-ability chance based so that every time the cycle rounds it has a chance (percentage based on skills maybe) to remove point on one's ship. Second: All ships tha fit a Warp Disruptor or Warp Scrambler are unable to fit a Stab. how about just learning to PVP? You mad?
Sang Jin Heretic Army 0	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:08:00 - [23] - Quote Pamela Podpopper wrote: Jude Lloyd wrote: So, I tend not to complain about game mechanics, but stabs I feel to be a little bit too much. I can put up with them most of the time, and attempting to put enough points on a overly stabbed ship can be an entertaining challenge. I have two ideas to lower the instant out that is the stab, but leave the concept intact. First: Make it a module that needs to be activated and have a cycle time. Make the un-point-ability chance based so that every time the cycle rounds it has a chance (percentage based on skills maybe) to remove point on one's ship. Second: All ships tha fit a Warp Disruptor or Warp Scrambler are unable to fit a Stab. how about just learning to PVP? U mad? U seem mad... U sure you not mad?
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 137	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:09:00 - [24] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Skippermonkey wrote: warp core stabs have their advantages and disadvantages. only people who dont want to fight (with the exception of smartbomb battleships) fit warp core stabs. How about you tell us what happened to get your goat up about them. Me and a corpmate, Ashen, were out in a Cyna and Drake... found a Dominix and Abaddon moving though system and caught them on the Sis gate in Amamake. Pointed them both up and expected a difficult yet entertaining fight (gate guns would be on us as well). They warped away :P They were fit for travelling, not for pvp. They sacrificed the ability to fight back in exchange for a greater chance of escaping tackle. What exactly are you complaining about?
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 213	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:14:00 - [25] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: Jude Lloyd wrote: Skippermonkey wrote: warp core stabs have their advantages and disadvantages. only people who dont want to fight (with the exception of smartbomb battleships) fit warp core stabs. How about you tell us what happened to get your goat up about them. Me and a corpmate, Ashen, were out in a Cyna and Drake... found a Dominix and Abaddon moving though system and caught them on the Sis gate in Amamake. Pointed them both up and expected a difficult yet entertaining fight (gate guns would be on us as well). They warped away :P They were fit for travelling, not for pvp. They sacrificed the ability to fight back in exchange for a greater chance of escaping tackle. What exactly are you complaining about? Dude, don't be so mad. I figured as much, it still sucks to have 2 BS pointed and watch them warp away. Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á
steave435 Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 34	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:24:00 - [26] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Gypsio III wrote: Jude Lloyd wrote: Skippermonkey wrote: warp core stabs have their advantages and disadvantages. only people who dont want to fight (with the exception of smartbomb battleships) fit warp core stabs. How about you tell us what happened to get your goat up about them. Me and a corpmate, Ashen, were out in a Cyna and Drake... found a Dominix and Abaddon moving though system and caught them on the Sis gate in Amamake. Pointed them both up and expected a difficult yet entertaining fight (gate guns would be on us as well). They warped away :P They were fit for travelling, not for pvp. They sacrificed the ability to fight back in exchange for a greater chance of escaping tackle. What exactly are you complaining about? Dude, don't be so mad. I figured as much, it still sucks to have 2 BS pointed and watch them warp away. Actually, you seem pretty mad about loosing the tackle. Stabs are already nerfed so bad that they are very very rarely used. They don't need a nerf. They are completely useless (and even hurt you) when the enemy has enough points to keep you there anyway, so the few times they can save someone are well deserved, that's the whole point of fitting them.
SpaceSquirrels 28	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:30:00 - [27] - Quote Considering you can get a point or a scram with -3 and a stab is +1 only... Eh. Face it you can't catch everything.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts 137	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:31:00 - [28] - Quote Jude Lloyd wrote: Dude, don't be so mad. I figured as much, it still sucks to have 2 BS pointed and watch them warp away. I understand the frustration, but the penalties for fitting WCS are quite intense already. Looking at your two ideas, the first one (no tackle) is sensible enough, although I'm not sure that there's really enough of a problem with stabbed tacklers to justify it (what was that stabbed alliance-prize frigate killmail again though?). The second idea is a bit silly because of the random-number generator. Actually, thinking about it a bit more, there is an entire ship class - well, two, really - that get to fit stabs and engage in pvp with no penalties at all. How is this defensible? How do we explain to a poor Rifter pilot that the Aeon or Erebus that he just tackled deserves the right to just warp off or jump out? Why do supercaps have built-in, penalty-free WCS?
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 17	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:35:00 - [29] - Quote The sound of a ecm burst type module that only effects warp scram/disrupters is sort of fun, but we do have ecm burst and stabs already so.....
Jude Lloyd Heretic Army 213	Posted - 2011.12.14 14:35:00 - [30] - Quote SpaceSquirrels wrote: Considering you can get a point or a scram with -3 and a stab is +1 only... Eh. Face it you can't catch everything. Yeah true, I really honestly don't mind them existing very often, was just trying to come up with new ways for them to operate. I understand everyone's thoughts on why they aren't that bad. Anyone know how stabs use to work, people mentioned they were nerfed... nerfed from what? Heretic Army CEO Host of Frigfry Fridays http://judelloyd.blog.com/ -á

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