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Captin ShadowHawk Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:45:00 - [1] Your thoughts. Linkage Signature removed due to incorrect size (400X120px and 24000 bytes). Please review the forum rules or e-mail us with any questions. You can view you signature here - Petwraith
Zissou 5 November	Posted - 2007.01.22 20:57:00 - [2] Edited by: Zissou on 22/01/2007 20:54:31 Like everything Microsoft and other such companies do to counter piracy/hacking, give it a few months (at most) and it'll be c.r.a.c.k.e.d. (stupid profanity filter - tell me where the word c.r.a.c.k is considered offensive?)
Yoshimako	Posted - 2007.01.22 21:14:00 - [3] Originally by: Captin ShadowHawk Your thoughts. Linkage Rehab clinic for nymphomaniacs?
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.01.23 04:02:00 - [4] I give it 1 week before it's *****ed. It's pointless.
Asimov Andies Gallente Red Blade Industries United Corporations of Eve	Posted - 2007.01.23 04:12:00 - [5] microsoft should just give in and join in the revoulution. Everything digital is free... of course besides EVE which I am happy to pay for... I just dug myself a hole -=##=- Why are they shooting at us Captain?
Mason X	Posted - 2007.01.23 04:55:00 - [6] I'm wondering why microsoft are tailoring the OS to content producers rather than their customers.
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.01.23 08:03:00 - [7] Vista sickens me tbh. It's designed to move the control of your computer from you, the owner, to the producers. And since there's no way any sane person would willingly upgrade to Vista, they make DX10 Vista only (despite the fact that they could easily release it for Windows XP as well) to lure gamers into buying it.. Sigs are for noobs.
Cmdr Sy Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.01.23 08:26:00 - [8] Intellectual property is theft. Logoffs on Fraps
Hesod Adee Bright New Dawn Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 09:08:00 - [9] Edited by: Hesod Adee on 23/01/2007 09:05:51 Originally by: Mason X I'm wondering why microsoft are tailoring the OS to content producers rather than their customers. It gets worse though, it seems that the Music companies are thinking about ditching drm because consumers are getting fed up with it the other restrictions its already imposing, and that DRM in an inherently flawed idea. ----------------- My door is always open, just don't go in.
Krexus Amarr Reunited O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.23 13:37:00 - [10] Who would want Vista anyway, sure it looks all shiny and stuff, but that means less memory for the games/apps you run on your machine. For now I'll stick with X(tra)P(roblems) until Vista uses lesser memory, or when I get more RAM to work with(the latter one being the more plausible) And ofc they can get all the 'protection' they'd like but it will be beaten, it always has been. --------- The succes in your eve career equals the amount of channels you're supposed to be in
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:35:00 - [11] Well, I see a vast upsurge in the use of linux OS in the near future- Vista for the few things that must have DX10, your other OS for..........you know, everything else computers do. -----------------------------------------------
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:16:00 - [12] Vista in all cases is trying to show off it's the next big step in the next 2 years. Unfortunately, its not that simple. No doubt someone out there is ready and willing to prove Microsoft's claims of Vista completely wrong. Windows XP, whilst semi-okay (I've hadnt had a BSOD playing EVE, though I have had a BSOD using Windows Media Player [BWAHAHAH!]), is without it's faults, and is starting to show it's lack of flexibility in this day and age. DirectX10 is the only thing keeping Vista on the minds of many a consumer out there, who is/isnt into games, either casual, or seriously.
Nadarius Chrome Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.23 22:29:00 - [13] Vista is never going to be on any of my PC's. I simply cannot respect what they're doing with it. I also give it 6 months at most before someone hacks together a version of DX10 that can be installed on XP. All it'll be is some version checks and a few missing DLLs. MS is intentionally crippling it to force people to "upgrade" (and I use the term loosely) to Vista, and in my experience, people don't respond well to that kind of technological blackmail.
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Patch86 Well, I see a vast upsurge in the use of linux OS in the near future- Vista for the few things that must have DX10, your other OS for..........you know, everything else computers do. not only do i agree with a vast upsurge of linux OS, but i very strongly HOPE TO GOD this will happen. basically, the problem with linux is that its just too complicated for anyone to pick up and use EXACTLY the way they want and expect. and what i mean there is... yes, you can get distros that are easy to use after you read a couple of pages of text. but people dont. the standard for something being easy to use, is something that works exactly like windows. All the popular distros are like that, especially for a lot of gamers, because even getting linux native games working can be a giant pain in the arse starting with what would be the simplest task on windows, installing GFX card drivers. i hope this will inspire people to create new distros that will handle such problems. XandrOS kinda had it, but they stopped OCE(open circulation edition. i.e. free) and now its a pay-for only distro. XandrOS basically installed everything for you from the get go. all your drivers and stuff. and all you had to do to install something new is double click it and choose "install via xandros networks". Maybe once a distro is created that can perform tasks in the simplest ways (i.e. double click, and then click some more), we will see more development from other parties such as game/software designers when they see that there is a quickly growing interest in linux distros that can do exactly people want. i know this is nothing more than a pipe dream, but its a pretty big "what if....". i would much prefer to use linux only by choice, but im a gamer. and all my games run on windows.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:08:00 - [15] Originally by: FooB2 All the popular distros are like that, especially for a lot of gamers, because even getting linux native games working can be a giant pain in the arse starting with what would be the simplest task on windows, installing GFX card drivers. Don't really know what you're talking about... I haven't seen a modern Linux distro that even requires you to install graphics drivers. They all automatically detect and install what is necessary. That can't even be said for windows... -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Nadarius Chrome Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:26:00 - [16] The issue with Linux is critical mass. I would like nothing better than to switch to it, but until 90% or more of games work on it, it's not practical. I play games, it's what I use my PC for most of the time. Of course, game developers will develop only for a platform that they will actually have customers for. Chicken/egg type issue. Regardless, MS and DX10 and Vista can get bent. I refuse to dance like Ballmer to their condescending tunes anymore.
Shu'val	Posted - 2007.01.24 00:51:00 - [17] I'm with the many who don't use linux due to the lack of gamming support. It's really quite a shame CCP don't have the time and resources to do a version. I read up on cadega the other day, but paying $5 a month to play games I already own seems a bit odd. I suppose $5 is only ú2.70 ish, but still... If more gamming companies supported Linux, the world indeed, would be a very differant and better place. I have been thinking about reinstalling linux again but it seems a tad naff with drivers. I installed mandriva a while back and had problems connecting to the intraweb, would be intrested in finding a version of Linux that would install said drivers and get away from M$ for a while and learn the joys of a new os.
Slow Joe	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:12:00 - [18] Of course it is.
Delenda Cartago Mercenaries of Andosia Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:14:00 - [19] I agree.
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:32:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: FooB2 All the popular distros are like that, especially for a lot of gamers, because even getting linux native games working can be a giant pain in the arse starting with what would be the simplest task on windows, installing GFX card drivers. Don't really know what you're talking about... I haven't seen a modern Linux distro that even requires you to install graphics drivers. They all automatically detect and install what is necessary. That can't even be said for windows... well that depends what distros you mean. i for one have went through pretty much every new distro that people are likely to come across. and by that i mean the main ones that everyone hears about. SuSE, Fedora, ubuntu, Mandriva, blah blah blah and none of them did anything like that. i know you can quite easily get distros that do this automatically for you on install, hence my mention of XandrOS. but the masses arent interested in something they havent had someone else tell them how great it is. and the distros that get talked about are the ones we already know about, such as Fedora and SuSE. granted, SuSE can do it easily with YasT2, but this brings me back to the point about people not doing anything that they have to even read up on just a ltitle bit. okay, so maybe the problem lies not that there isnt any distros like about capable of doing things, lets say, "windows like" for a lack of a better expression, but in the fact that people dont know these distros and options exist. maybe when vista comes along and hopefully shoots microsoft in its ego-inflated head then the awareness of these distros will become more widespread as more and more people are considering thier options... rather than just jumping on the "lets use windows cos its on TV" bandwagon that we grow more and more tired of every day. either way, the end result will hopefully be the same. a sharp increase in the use and interest of linux based OS' in the general population thus leading to the sharp increase of development for said OS'. on a seperate note. if people want to try linux and have a spare machine handy to do it with (not a good idea screwing about with it on your main PC as a beginner), but are worried about all the drivers lark. try Freespire. it does everything for you on install, and from the get go is ready fot you to just install what you like and start using it.
Aeaea XanoTech	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:51:00 - [21] Windows > Linux for home computing, until more software becomes compatable and it's just as hasslefree as windows to use, it won't take off.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:52:00 - [22] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/01/2007 01:52:49 Originally by: FooB2 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: FooB2 All the popular distros are like that, especially for a lot of gamers, because even getting linux native games working can be a giant pain in the arse starting with what would be the simplest task on windows, installing GFX card drivers. Don't really know what you're talking about... I haven't seen a modern Linux distro that even requires you to install graphics drivers. They all automatically detect and install what is necessary. That can't even be said for windows... well that depends what distros you mean. i for one have went through pretty much every new distro that people are likely to come across. and by that i mean the main ones that everyone hears about. SuSE, Fedora, ubuntu, Mandriva, blah blah blah and none of them did anything like that. i know you can quite easily get distros that do this automatically for you on install, hence my mention of XandrOS. but the masses arent interested in something they havent had someone else tell them how great it is. and the distros that get talked about are the ones we already know about, such as Fedora and SuSE. granted, SuSE can do it easily with YasT2, but this brings me back to the point about people not doing anything that they have to even read up on just a ltitle bit. Wait, are you now claiming that Ubuntu doesn't automatically install needed drivers? I have yet to encounter a computer where it didn't. Originally by: Aeaea Windows > Linux for home computing, until more software becomes compatable and it's just as hasslefree as windows to use, it won't take off. Linux has more software than Windows. Its much more hassle free, considering Windows' vast problems and the fact that most good Linux distros will work flawlessly on install. Its flaws are relatively minor, but still considerable: 1. Games are coded for Windows. Some don't work with WINE. 2. The sound architecture has historically been pretty mediocre. ALSA has solved this, but there are still many programs that use the often-broken and outdated OSS. Example: Teamspeak. 3. Lack of drivers from certain specific companies. There are some companies who simply refuse to provide even binary drivers for Linux, or even the information needed for coders to create them. Broadcom wireless chipsets I believe are one example. These situations are completely the fault of the company and nobody else, but hurt Linux's compatibility. Beyond this, there are very few problems with Linux that prevent it from becoming more widely used. However, I'd say there's one even bigger one: 1. Crappy free programs and spyware don't work on Linux. People (read: average computer user) want to install the stupid smiley programs and free screensavers. If they can't, they will be angry. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 01:59:00 - [23] we could get a nix based OS that is user friendly if Jobs would get off his high horse and sell OSX to the public. atm you cant put it on x86 that arent apple without some tweaks
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 02:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker we could get a nix based OS that is user friendly if Jobs would get off his high horse and sell OSX to the public. atm you cant put it on x86 that arent apple without some tweaks Not going to happen IMO. If OS X was released for PCs, it would be wildly popular. But Jobs insists on sticking to his old business model, selling hardware for profit because of the software that runs on it. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Victor Valka Caldari Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.01.24 03:58:00 - [25] Yes. Funny stuff. On a related note, this also is quite an entertaining read: Linkage. Originally by: Diana Marc Notice that BoB is agreeing with RA's concern. That's like Elrond and Sauron agreeing to reduce carbon emissions.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 04:10:00 - [26] DRM is the devil, infact people who support the devlopment of DRM really need to rethink how they spend money. why invest in a lock that restricts legit users.
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.01.24 11:43:00 - [27] well, you now have found an ubuntu computer that didnt install drivers. HOWEVER, i will freely admit that its probably because the version im using is a pressed CD that i sent away for for free ages ago (you can get ubuntu delivered to your house completely free of all charges, including shipping) via that Ship It! service. im unsure if they still do that, but i may download a newer version and take a look see. for me though, SuSE was the best distro i used. i had it on dual-boot with my main PC (which is nVidia powered) and i managed to get everything working on it via YasT2, but i had to format and the partition sadly died. i have since re-built an ald computer that i used to play UT99 on (which is ATi Radeon based) and the drivers from ATi arent so forgiving. XandrOS and Freespire were the only distros i had that installed them from setup, and i couldnt install them at all anywhere else. XandrOS OCE is far too outdated now and Freespire had trouble with my sound. so i gave up.
MrTriggerHappy Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.24 11:53:00 - [28] I must admit.. I prefer linux over windows, unfort like many users I play a lot of games and have to suffer using windows to do so. Linux can be simple to use or it can be difficult.. it depends what your looking for and if you are prepared to do some reading. The problem is that many people just want to go home and turn their computer on and not have to do anything "different" than what they would do with Windows. So of course they take the easy option and shun linux at every able oppurtunity.. hell there was one guy on here who told me that his system was hacked as soon as he installed linux.. but refused to tell me what distro he used! Common CCP give us a linux friendly eve client My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance
Taaketa Frist	Posted - 2007.01.24 12:47:00 - [29] DRM - Dumb. I use Itunes to get my music from. Whenever I download an album I just leave the PC on all night hook up to my Digital Sound output (which isn't controled by any DRM) put it back into my Digital Input slot and Record all my itunes music to mp3 with no quality loss and removed the DRM. And the great thing is. It isn't any hassel for me the software I use can file the music in each instance whent heres a pause between songs. All I need to do is add in the names to filename. Linux. Now Linux. I dunno I've never looked into it a great deal. I did download a few OS' with the intention to start but compared to Windows Linux looks like a minefield of learning "explosions". Theres also the fact that I'm bred with windows I taught myself and I never had to refere to any instructions on how to run windows, just how to fix the damn thing. As far as I am concerned Linux is for people with smarter brains than mine. -------------- Dang nabit
Grimpak Gallente Twisted Attitude Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.01.24 12:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Victor Valka Yes. Funny stuff. On a related note, this also is quite an entertaining read: Linkage. just LOVED this bit: Quote: Note C: In order for content to be displayed to users, it has to be copied numerous times. For example if you're reading this document on the web then it's been copied from the web server's disk drive to server memory, copied to the server's network buffers, copied across the Internet, copied to your PC's network buffers, copied into main memory, copied to your browser's disk cache, copied to the browser's rendering engine, copied to the render/screen cache, and finally copied to your screen. If you've printed it out to read, several further rounds of copying have occurred. Windows Vista's content protection (and DRM in general) assume that all of this copying can occur without any copying actually occurring, since the whole intent of DRM is to prevent copying. If you're not versed in DRM doublethink this concept gets quite tricky to explain, but in terms of quantum mechanics the content enters a superposition of simultaneously copied and uncopied states until a user collapses its wave function by observing the content (in physics this is called quantum indeterminacy or the observer's paradox). Depending on whether you follow the Copenhagen or many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, things then either get weird or very weird. So in order for Windows Vista's content protection to work, it has to be able to violate the laws of physics and create numerous copies that are simultaneously not copies. Vista is a singularity generator! ------- Originally by: Tiuwaz for caldari perception weapons that hit up to 100km are short range weapons
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.01.24 13:37:00 - [31] Originally by: Taaketa Frist DRM - Dumb. I use Itunes to get my music from. Whenever I download an album I just leave the PC on all night hook up to my Digital Sound output (which isn't controled by any DRM) put it back into my Digital Input slot and Record all my itunes music to mp3 with no quality loss and removed the DRM. And the great thing is. It isn't any hassel for me the software I use can file the music in each instance whent heres a pause between songs. All I need to do is add in the names to filename. Linux. Now Linux. I dunno I've never looked into it a great deal. I did download a few OS' with the intention to start but compared to Windows Linux looks like a minefield of learning "explosions". Theres also the fact that I'm bred with windows I taught myself and I never had to refere to any instructions on how to run windows, just how to fix the damn thing. As far as I am concerned Linux is for people with smarter brains than mine. thats my point. people will refuse to use anything that doesnt work exactly like windows because its not windows. everything else is for power geeks and for people with 250 IQs. go download Freespire. you will be shocked at how easy it actually is.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 14:12:00 - [32] Originally by: FooB2 Originally by: Taaketa Frist DRM - Dumb. I use Itunes to get my music from. Whenever I download an album I just leave the PC on all night hook up to my Digital Sound output (which isn't controled by any DRM) put it back into my Digital Input slot and Record all my itunes music to mp3 with no quality loss and removed the DRM. And the great thing is. It isn't any hassel for me the software I use can file the music in each instance whent heres a pause between songs. All I need to do is add in the names to filename. Linux. Now Linux. I dunno I've never looked into it a great deal. I did download a few OS' with the intention to start but compared to Windows Linux looks like a minefield of learning "explosions". Theres also the fact that I'm bred with windows I taught myself and I never had to refere to any instructions on how to run windows, just how to fix the damn thing. As far as I am concerned Linux is for people with smarter brains than mine. thats my point. people will refuse to use anything that doesnt work exactly like windows because its not windows. everything else is for power geeks and for people with 250 IQs. go download Freespire. you will be shocked at how easy it actually is. To add to this, I've installed Ubuntu on some computers that some relatively computer-illiterate people were using. They found it phenomenally easy: it worked like Windows, but without the problems and hangups, and simply did what they told it to do. Opening "the internet" took a single click. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:06:00 - [33] i must say, im currently installing ubuntu 6.10. and im doing it on the machine im currently formatting. its rather interesting formatting and installing an OS whilst the livecd is running. to pass the time formatting i can browse the net and stuff.
Rakeris Legio VIII	Posted - 2007.01.24 16:36:00 - [34] Edited by: Rakeris on 24/01/2007 16:33:19 Yeah I liked ubuntu, the only problem is me being stuck on dial up...I tried for probably a month to get it to work. I tried I have no idea how many "fixes", but I finally got one to work, and it worked great! I got a number of games working and everything. But then something happened with one of the updates...and I had to reinstall. I tried same fix again, it didn't work. I tried I have no idea how many others, until I just gave up. I'll just have to wait till I am able to get broadband. =( ---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.24 17:02:00 - [35] Originally by: Rakeris Edited by: Rakeris on 24/01/2007 16:33:19 Yeah I liked ubuntu, the only problem is me being stuck on dial up...I tried for probably a month to get it to work. I tried I have no idea how many "fixes", but I finally got one to work, and it worked great! I got a number of games working and everything. But then something happened with one of the updates...and I had to reinstall. I tried same fix again, it didn't work. I tried I have no idea how many others, until I just gave up. I'll just have to wait till I am able to get broadband. =( Yeah modems are not as well supported on Linux (as there are so many variations) and I doubt anyone is really working that hard to improve support considering so few people use them anymore. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Donna Darko	Posted - 2007.01.24 19:19:00 - [36] Edited by: Donna Darko on 24/01/2007 19:21:21 Originally by: MrTriggerHappy The problem is that many people just want to go home and turn their computer on and not have to do anything "different" than what they would do with Windows. The PROBLEM?!? What are you, nuts? When I get home from work, all I want to do on the computer is my "home work" - pay bills, write e-mails, browse the net, play. I don't want to spent 3 days installing the program to make the video editor I like work in Linux. Under Windows, it takes me a whooping 60 seconds to install it (assuming I have downloaded it). Under Linux, it takes me 30 seconds to download the source code and 3 days to install and configure it properly, after reading all the documentation and compiling it. And if you ask me to use the binaries from some distro, in which case I get "everything working", sure. But I get everything working the way the person(s) doing that package have wanted it and possibly 5 other packages which are flagged as "optional" but are "required" in the current form of my package. In Windows, I have the "Simple setup" mode and the "Advanced mode". I choose what I do. Yes, I have a greater freedom with Linux, but do I really want to spend the time it takes to take advantage of it? Which would I prefer? The egg that cooks in 1 minute or the solar-powered egg cooker and the chicken that cost me 1$ but requires me to wait a sunny day to take advantage of it? I used Linux. Hell, I loved it. Until I realized how much time it needs to get it to do something (yes, it works "perfectly" and "the way I want it"). Now I plan to use it on a virtual machine, until I get all my programs configured the way I want it, then I may consider using it on real hardware. But then I run into the problems with drivers, buggy ACPI support, extra buttons on my keyboard that no longer do anything (which worked just fine in Windows), TV output from my video card no longer working etc, etc, etc. And if I hear another "write your own driver if you're not happy" dumbass, I'll kill them. Sure, I'll spend a year of my life learning programming, interfacing with the kernel, learning electronics and what-not, then write my own driver. Or I could spend money and use an OS that's crappier but generally works in under 10 minutes, and top it off with the same programs you use in Linux. (If you believe I don't know what I'm talking about, have a look at Linux From Scratch project, it's what I used. I learned a lot from it and it certainly opens up the real "freedom" gates so much bragged about. But good luck finding help on (doesn't matter which) forums :) "Oh, for me it worked fine out of the box, didn't have to configure anything. I'm running <insert distro here>." is my favorite answer. Originally by: Dark Shikari Wait, are you now claiming that Ubuntu doesn't automatically install needed drivers? I have yet to encounter a computer where it didn't. Dark Shikari, meet my friend's computer. My friend's computer, meet Dark Shikari. Now that you know each other, please explain to Dark Shikari the 2 hours I spent installing and fixing your drivers manually. And it's not a top of the line computer, nor 10 years old. Originally by: Dark Shikari Yeah modems are not as well supported on Linux (as there are so many variations) and I doubt anyone is really working that hard to improve support considering so few people use them anymore. It's more like "Yeah, modems are built for Windows nowadays and they rely heavily on the operating system to make them function". When I used Linux more "seriously" I only had modems and out of the 4 I tried back then, all of them worked with no problems. I just felt "insulted" by what you said :) (even though I have nothing to do with their support or even use them anymore). Stories.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.24 19:31:00 - [37] i had an old external modem, great thing is that it always worked without drivers as it was old enough that it worked by default with win2k but still had the V90.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:05:00 - [38] Originally by: Donna Darko The PROBLEM?!? What are you, nuts? When I get home from work, all I want to do on the computer is my "home work" - pay bills, write e-mails, browse the net, play. I don't want to spent 3 days installing the program to make the video editor I like work in Linux. Under Windows, it takes me a whooping 60 seconds to install it (assuming I have downloaded it). Under Linux, it takes me 30 seconds to download the source code and 3 days to install and configure it properly, after reading all the documentation and compiling it. And if you ask me to use the binaries from some distro, in which case I get "everything working", sure. But I get everything working the way the person(s) doing that package have wanted it and possibly 5 other packages which are flagged as "optional" but are "required" in the current form of my package. In Windows, I have the "Simple setup" mode and the "Advanced mode". I choose what I do. Yes, I have a greater freedom with Linux, but do I really want to spend the time it takes to take advantage of it? sudo apt-get install (appname) I'm not sure how installing something could be made simpler. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
FooB2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2007.01.24 23:59:00 - [39] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Donna Darko The PROBLEM?!? What are you, nuts? When I get home from work, all I want to do on the computer is my "home work" - pay bills, write e-mails, browse the net, play. I don't want to spent 3 days installing the program to make the video editor I like work in Linux. Under Windows, it takes me a whooping 60 seconds to install it (assuming I have downloaded it). Under Linux, it takes me 30 seconds to download the source code and 3 days to install and configure it properly, after reading all the documentation and compiling it. And if you ask me to use the binaries from some distro, in which case I get "everything working", sure. But I get everything working the way the person(s) doing that package have wanted it and possibly 5 other packages which are flagged as "optional" but are "required" in the current form of my package. In Windows, I have the "Simple setup" mode and the "Advanced mode". I choose what I do. Yes, I have a greater freedom with Linux, but do I really want to spend the time it takes to take advantage of it? sudo apt-get install (appname) I'm not sure how installing something could be made simpler. tell that to a new user thats used to double clicking and he/she will look at you like a dog thats been shown a card trick.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:07:00 - [40] Originally by: Asimov Andies microsoft should just give in and join in the revoulution. Everything digital is free... of course besides EVE which I am happy to pay for... I just dug myself a hole Everything being 'free' would lead to nothing being made. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to spend my life working for absolutely nothing. This, like everything else, will be ***ed though. You would need sentient AI actively attacking the hacker's systems to ever truly be able to stop hackers, and even then, they would find ways. Originally by:** kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:23:00 - [41] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 25/01/2007 00:20:06 Originally by: FooB2 Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Donna Darko The PROBLEM?!? What are you, nuts? When I get home from work, all I want to do on the computer is my "home work" - pay bills, write e-mails, browse the net, play. I don't want to spent 3 days installing the program to make the video editor I like work in Linux. Under Windows, it takes me a whooping 60 seconds to install it (assuming I have downloaded it). Under Linux, it takes me 30 seconds to download the source code and 3 days to install and configure it properly, after reading all the documentation and compiling it. And if you ask me to use the binaries from some distro, in which case I get "everything working", sure. But I get everything working the way the person(s) doing that package have wanted it and possibly 5 other packages which are flagged as "optional" but are "required" in the current form of my package. In Windows, I have the "Simple setup" mode and the "Advanced mode". I choose what I do. Yes, I have a greater freedom with Linux, but do I really want to spend the time it takes to take advantage of it? sudo apt-get install (appname) I'm not sure how installing something could be made simpler. tell that to a new user thats used to double clicking and he/she will look at you like a dog thats been shown a card trick. Actually, in Ubuntu, it will pop up in the taskbar and tell you when there are updates available (for any software on your machine, not just the operating system), and all you have to do is click it and it will update. For installing programs, the Synaptic package manager is available, which has a similar interface to the updater and is very simple. Its much easier on the command line, but both options are available. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.25 00:30:00 - [42] Originally by: FooB2 tell that to a new user thats used to double clicking and he/she will look at you like a dog thats been shown a card trick. Applications -> Add/remove point and clicky enough for you? I mean, I figured that if you were using linux from scratch you'd have no problem using apt/portage/yum/yast/pacman/whatever. It really beats what you have to go through to get your typical application for windows. (go to developer's site, go to downloads, find latest version, jump through hoops while not signing up for their newsletter/crap, choose a mirror, get put in line...) --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Donna Darko	Posted - 2007.01.25 02:26:00 - [43] Poor Foob :) Serves you right for trying to take my side, now people think you're me :D In regards to the sudo apt-get... etc. I haven't tried all distributions and Linux software. The last time I read anything about integrating a package manager, it was regarded as an almost-impossible task, and I seem to remember doing ANYTHING with apt would have turned it into a Debian distro :) The next time I feel like testing new software, I'll take a look at it, even if it's just so I know what the hell it does exactly. Stories.
Sadao Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.01.25 08:47:00 - [44] I have only ever used windows. I have been using PC's since windows 98SE and have never used anything else. I have heard of linux and all the free stuff but have never understood how to make it work. I have done some looking on the interweb but as soon as you find anything it goes too fast into techno babble just like many of the posts's in this thread. I use my PC to come home play games, listen to music, edit movies and all other manner of things. What I do not want is to get under the bonnet and **** about with the engine. I know windows sometimes you have to do this and I pride my self on making this work. But for me if I have to spend hours upon hours gettng frustrated and its the OS's fault I am not interedted in using it. Why should I need a degree to make linux work? I want a "here mate stick this round thing in that hole, click go and answer a few questions as you go and in about 10 mins it will al work as intended" If I buy a pc from pcworld or wherever I get home plug it all in and turn it on. It does not seem so simple for linux. If you like point me to the linux for dummys area and tell me where to get from. -Sadao
Siggi Syra	Posted - 2007.01.25 11:51:00 - [45] Edited by: Siggi Syra on 25/01/2007 11:47:43 bah alt
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.25 11:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Sadao Why should I need a degree to make linux work? You shouldn't. Anyone who thinks this is operating solely on Microsoft FUD and horror stories of Slackware Linux from the mid-1990s. -[23] Member- Note: Dark Shikari will be away until Sunday.
GouldFish Unscoped Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.25 12:57:00 - [47] I love seeing these Vista has DRM in it its bad bad bad stuff. Basically Vista is a sold product and thus has to agree to laws (Linux as a free product and not sold gernally ingores these) even if MS do take a dim view on following some laws (hello anti-trust laws!). As such to allow Vista to run the new DRM protected stuff (HD-DVD, Blue ray), MS had to follow what the content providers wanted, this is just an extension of what XP already does. So MS had the choice, allow the content management service in to extended to allow the tighter controls that will only be done with content protected stuff (Macrovision, Blue-ray, HD DVD) or not have them legally played on the OS at all. When osx gets the software to play Blue-ray and HD-DVD they will be controlled in just the same way, and as normal its Oh windows BAD! As for the whole Linux Vs Windows debate, I normally fall on the side of windows. I've been using it longer, I hvae gernally little issues with it, and most of the software I use is windows only. But I do use linux for a few things, mostly server based tasks (eg things that Linux are designed for). On the home front Linux is in the win9x days, yes we have a GUI, but it's nothing more that sitting ontop of the command line.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.25 14:37:00 - [48] DRM isnt the law, MS doesnt need to make windows follow DRM rules because its their code and if the content vendors want their code to run with MS's code they really dont have a choice but to follow the API.
Kyozoku Mutiny.	Posted - 2007.01.25 15:09:00 - [49] Edited by: Kyozoku on 25/01/2007 15:07:43 I tried switching to linux in the past and was impressed with it but it's not practical for me to use unless all of my games are supported. I don't suppose it will be getting better in the foreseeable future. It's a shame really.

Petwraith Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.01.25 15:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Peter Gutmann The Vista Content Protection specification could very well constitute the longest suicide note in history. Best Line Ever! If it ain't orange, it ain't offical! If it aint red it ain't important. - [red]Hutch


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