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Piracy ain't dead PART 2

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Amiable Quinn Minmatar Lasleinur Production Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.23 14:43:00 - [61] Tiller, I'm not sure if you understand why your argument is bad and poorly thought out. So let me break it down for you: Here is what you are trying to say: "Real pirates" have -10 sec status. I have -10 sec status. Therefore I am a real pirate. You do not have a -10 sec status. Therefore you are not a "real pirate." "Real pirates" are always right about the state of pirating. As per above, I am a "real pirate," hence whatever I say about pirating MUST be right. A few problems here: 1. -10 sec status, for a variety of reasons, is a poor indicator of your status as a pirate. Let's define the pirate career shall we? I would define a pirate as someone who makes his or her living off of killing/ransoming folk, as opposed to other means of capital acquisition. All sec status shows is that you have killed approximately 33 folks in low sec without NPCing. It does not mean that you are profitable. Someone could very easily maintain a decent sec status and still make all of his or her money off of killing/ransoming folk. Thus that proposition that "-10 sec status" = "pirate" is demonstrably untrue. 2. The whole I am a "real pirate," hence whatever I say about pirating MUST be right is just a silly poisoning the well. Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy where adverse information about someone is pre-emptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing everything that person is about to say. Poisoning the well is a special case of argumentum "ad hominem." This "argument" has the following form: 1. Unfavorable information (be it true or false) about person A is presented. 2. Therefore any claims person A makes will be false. Sound familiar? 1. Person A is not a REAL pirate, because he doesn't have -10 sec status he is a carebear!!! 2. Therefore any claims person A makes about pirating will be false. If you are interested I reccomend: http://www.amazon.com/Logical-Self-Defense-Rhetoric-Argumentation-Debates/dp/1932716181/sr=8-13/qid=1169563152/ref=sr_1_13/104-1640696-4727136?ie=UTF8&s=books It has a lot of good tips to tighten up your argument and make your persuasion far more efffective.
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:09:00 - [62] Originally by: tiller Before reading below please regard it as light hearted roleplay and by no means a personal attack (ie, no name calling will take place kublai ;-) After being smacked to hell and back in the last thread and being told by dozens of people that piracy was not slowly being snuffed out by CCP and I was a big carebear I thought I'd do a little research. For further reading old thread is Here In eve we have a scoring system if you like, it tells you basically how 'naughty' you are in low sec. The more guys we kill in low sec our security status falls.... Now using a Security Status Calulator you can see that it only take 33 ship & pod kill to reach the dizzy(lol) lows of -10. Sure, if you kill dudes in 0.0 it means nothing but generally most piracy discussed on the forums is low sec. 1 pod kill will see you too -1.5.... I would of expected most the 'experts' to be blood sucking evil -10 guys... ohh wait. Here are the results of said reseach. GoGo Yubari 0.2 (o/ me ex CEO from Venal Rangers) IHurricane -0.3 Jalec Creed -1.8 Marcus TheMartin -9.4 (rejoin MAFIA ya nub) Valen Itrius -1.0 Stakhanov -9.4 kublai -9.6 VIctoria Ballentyne 1.9 doom kat 0.0 Soumk 0.0 (cough alt cough) Felinuszzz -4.4 darth solo 1.7 TuRtLe HeAd -6.7 Lorth -0.7 (your a merc goddamit) Nicocat -2.8 Powdder 4.9! Constantinee -0.0 (who areeeeee you) Tiller -10 Well guys, i'm pretty shocked. First, under MAFIAs rules most of you would be kicked from our corp within 30days for not meeting the 'minimum requirements' to be a pirate. Now not for one second am I saying 'omgomg I'm a better player'. Just DONT lecture me on what, from where I'm sitting you actually know less about or at least don't seem to be very good at. I'll leave you with the wise words of the dread pirate Constantinee -0.0 from that very thread. quote 'piracy aint dead if anything its more fun then ever' Yes of course it is... addition: if you used to be REALLY low sec status outlaw dude then I'm sorry, but I'd also comment that you probably are not in the position to comment on post Kali piracy since your turned bear. Again, please take above as a light hearted different look at your pirate success in eve, nothing more. Ok, look, Who the **** cares if kublai doesn't currently have -10.0... I could get it in a week with a new char easy podding rookies all day... WOW LOOK AT ME IM A PIRATE! I PAWN! I KILL IBIS'S ALL DAY AND POD THEM WHEN THEIR AFK!!!! YAR YAR! Seriously tiller, your a carebear by the looks of it and a moron... If I see any pirate coalition about I will look at it as free EASY kill since seriously, the people you hang out with show how smart/stupid you are... And if they hang out with you I would hate to see how easy it would be to kill you guys Kublai is 10 * times better then you, has alot more kills then you and this is also shown by him being in one most respected/ best pvp corps in game where they have a low memeber base since only the best get in... You are in a pirate corp where any 1 week old alt with -10.0 can join (I dont know your crappy requirements but looking at your posts Im assuming this :P) Keep it up moron and get some brains. Also, actually trying to argue against one of kublais posts might help since so far he has made you look so stupid in them all and you cany even respond so you try to boost your ego in some other insignificant way moron. Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:19:00 - [63] Edited by: Saint Bubba on 23/01/2007 15:17:19 Tiller on the last page, when kublai say's you just ignore her posts which own you and you have no response to which is the real argument you ignore it yet again and say "we aren't having an argument"... You sir are really retarded and I aint gonna waste time on a moron like you thanks :) And playing eve 20-30 hours a week? Get a social life or a job maybe? Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:24:00 - [64] Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 23/01/2007 09:20:35 Originally by: Felinuszzz So I'm only -4.4, and this somehow means I am not/have not been a real pirate? Give me a break man, your logic is awfully flawed. You'd be kicked out of MAFIA for not being one yes, if you could not get to -5 within 30days of joining. Guess you are still a 'pirate' (I've never said you are not), just not one that would be welcome within this particular group of gankers. At no stage have I tried to define piracy, I could not care less. I just kill people, wether a reaper or a titan, I'm not really that bothered. What I did however say is that a -10 rating does point to a person who kills alot at low sec gates, someone like me. Thats why I said that people who are not obviously don't and as such should not lecture me on the subject. You are twisting what you said there... First you say ok he still might be a pirate admiting you were wrong but then you say he shouldn't lecture you on the subject because he isn't a pirate.. Good job contradicting yourself... Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Kay Brack Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:26:00 - [65] Security sec as a yardstick for "pirate'ness" is faulty for a lot of reasons. True "pirates" would measure each other by the value of goods/gold extracted from their victims. In theory the best pirates would be those who could scare or talk a ship out of its goods/gold without fireing a shot. A psychopath would have a very low security level but probably would not make a good "pirate". But it doesn't really matter as the term "pirate" has different connotations to different people in EVE.
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:27:00 - [66] Originally by: tiller Originally by: Lucifer Fellblade Originally by: tiller Originally by: Yarek Balear 0.0 Piracy doesn't lose you sec status, but if you ply your trade there it doesn't make you any less of a pirate. Sec status isn't the be all and end all of how good/bad someone is. nope it doesn't, but it does indicate the person kills alot in low sec So a person could go round killing battleships in low sec, while not podding them, and not be allowed in to the corp, but some month old noob who's popped and podded a few navitas flying noobcorpers could? We created the rule so we don't end with a membership full of mission runners seeking safety within a rat corp. People who are serious about low sec piracy won't care about losing sec status.. It also filters out alts / spys from the corp.. And tiller just does exactly at what he continuously does... Something ahmedenijad does quite a bit as well, avoiding the question and talking about something else which leaves most educated people thinking, "this was a yes or no question and he didnt answer it" Watch tiller do exact same as I said their to all my posts and anyone else who disagrees with him all. Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.01.23 15:34:00 - [67] Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 23/01/2007 13:17:03 Originally by: kublai Further, tiller isn't actually a pirate, tiller does not play eve, tiller players Shoot'em up eve, he does not care about the isk or ransoms, he just wishes to blow up as many people as he possibly can without moving or having to call on friends to help him (I could quote you on this, but i'm assuming your memory is still in sound order). You finally get it!, yes that is exactly what I do except isk is my secondary driving force as it helps me improve my ship setup. Just another way to play eve..... unless my way of playing is not worthy lol And once again, Tiller with his stupidity and iq below 10 avoids rest of the post and goes to one small bit. Retard... And mafia has 28 members... If you let members in based on being -10.0 or not and you dont even know them with such a small member base... I advise you disband this stupid worthless corp full of ibis/pod killers at gates using stabs Originally by: Sakura Nihil That being said, the PvP Force is strong in this one, I forsee a good future full of whining carebears and jealous PvPers crushed under his heels .
Skywalker Minmatar MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:13:00 - [68] Ok, i have been reading this post and can agree that it turned into a flamefestival. What is a pirate or not can be discussed forever. What i know though is that my corp have been low sec pirates for a long time, we have been forced by CCP to use other means of pirating then we used to (and i don't just mean stab nerf, lol). It is harder now, but still doable. I to whined at the last patch, wich i think is a valid thing to do if you think that your way of playing the game is going in a direction you do not like. You can discuss if belt pirating is more valid then gate camping and such. My corp have always liked gate camping and that have been crippled with WTZ patch. We now have to have bigger gangs and scouts in nearby systems. Before we could do more solo gatecamping and using less scouts. Oh and thank you for calling us a worthless corp, i do think however since we stay on top on a few killboards that we have done something right when it comes to playing bad guys. Also being around for more then 3 years shows in some knowledge about low sec pirating.
sb404 Caldari Tarnak inc.	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:20:00 - [69] Edited by: sb404 on 23/01/2007 16:17:25 Originally by: Skywalker Ok, i have been reading this post and can agree that it turned into a flamefestival. What is a pirate or not can be discussed forever. What i know though is that my corp have been low sec pirates for a long time, we have been forced by CCP to use other means of pirating then we used to (and i don't just mean stab nerf, lol). It is harder now, but still doable. I to whined at the last patch, wich i think is a valid thing to do if you think that your way of playing the game is going in a direction you do not like. You can discuss if belt pirating is more valid then gate camping and such. My corp have always liked gate camping and that have been crippled with WTZ patch. We now have to have bigger gangs and scouts in nearby systems. Before we could do more solo gatecamping and using less scouts. Oh and thank you for calling us a worthless corp, i do think however since we stay on top on a few killboards that we have done something right when it comes to playing bad guys. Also being around for more then 3 years shows in some knowledge about low sec pirating. I'm curious, what's wrong with getting incoming traffic instead of outgoing? WTZ didn't change a thing there... ships still need to align to warp and that's more than enough time to get juicy haulers or anything cruiser size. I admit that transporting BPOs in frigs and shuttles has been made much too available and easy to do, but anything big that needs to be transported will have to be escorted or alleviated of its cargo by friendly(?) neighborhood "gatekeepers" Now... can we please have the loot when we pop a freighter? How come no one whines about this anymore? ------------------------------------------------- I never wrote this -Eris
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:25:00 - [70] Originally by: Saint Bubba Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 23/01/2007 13:17:03 Originally by: kublai Further, tiller isn't actually a pirate, tiller does not play eve, tiller players Shoot'em up eve, he does not care about the isk or ransoms, he just wishes to blow up as many people as he possibly can without moving or having to call on friends to help him (I could quote you on this, but i'm assuming your memory is still in sound order). You finally get it!, yes that is exactly what I do except isk is my secondary driving force as it helps me improve my ship setup. Just another way to play eve..... unless my way of playing is not worthy lol And once again, Tiller with his stupidity and iq below 10 avoids rest of the post and goes to one small bit. Retard... And mafia has 28 members... If you let members in based on being -10.0 or not and you dont even know them with such a small member base... I advise you disband this stupid worthless corp full of ibis/pod killers at gates using stabs I'll have you know my IQ is 11 My post no-where said that your not a pirate if you don't have a low sec status, just simply pointing out the flocks of 'expert' low sec pirates who don't even have outlaw status. I don't care what you think about me, my corp or my alliance. I'm here to play the bad guy... if that means upsetting you on the forums then so be it. My view on eve is as good as the next mans... The fact that you hate me so much makes me happy. It means I now have another enemy blinded by rage and which will lead to his eventual downfall at the hands of my guns.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:25:00 - [71] Originally by: sb404 Now... can we please have the loot when we pop a freighter? How come no one whines about this anymore? Gimme The Loot, Gimme the Loot! -Biggy Smalls hmm I'm gonna go make a sig now Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Petwraith (mods@ccpgames)
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:34:00 - [72] How amusing. Saying we're not pirates because our sec isn't -10. As for me, mine used to be lower, but I power-ratted in 0.0 (super sec gain, ain't gonna tell you how if you don't know) because I missed shopping and I don't do alts. Speaking of 0.0, I've moved down there, thus transitioning from lowsec piracy to nosec deep-striking in enemy territory and home defense. I must say, it's much nicer down here. I left lowsec piracy not because of a lack of targets, but because of a lack of good fights. Nowadays, when I see someone in a belt, I KNOW, without a doubt, one of two things: 1) He has ** loot because he's a noob. 2) He's a noob alt spy bait ship thingamajig. Watch for the blob of 10+ come in when I whack him... Now, being a pirate (or "piwat at heart" due to my sec, yeah right...) in a non-pirate corp, I don't have the firepower to take on 10 battleships looking to gank a battlecruiser. And after I got bored of this, well... off I went. So don't think those with high secs aren't pirates. We're disguised, that's all ;) ---------------------------- Originally by:** Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:37:00 - [73] Originally by: Dr Slice Who knows? We engage in all acts of Piracy. Gate Camps, Belt Piracy, Station Piracy (thats when you die outside of a station) and we even partake in Fleet Engagements every now and then. Where do you get your kills? where ever the target is at. mostly at stations now. kill them as they undock and before they can warp away or dock. hard on ransoms, but meh. --- If i'm posting on the forums, it's mostly cause i'm at work :D
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:37:00 - [74] Originally by: Nicocat How amusing. Saying we're not pirates because our sec isn't -10. As for me, mine used to be lower, but I power-ratted in 0.0 (super sec gain, ain't gonna tell you how if you don't know) because I missed shopping and I don't do alts. Have not said your not a rat unless -10, just pointing out the 'non-outlaw' experts on piracy in these forums, which is a oxymoron lol at power ratting, sounds very dull. Now if CCP could make NPC get upset when you shoot them maybe it would be fun. Each to their own though...
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:41:00 - [75] Originally by: tiller Originally by: Nicocat How amusing. Saying we're not pirates because our sec isn't -10. As for me, mine used to be lower, but I power-ratted in 0.0 (super sec gain, ain't gonna tell you how if you don't know) because I missed shopping and I don't do alts. Have not said your not a rat unless -10, just pointing out the 'non-outlaw' experts on piracy in these forums, which is a oxymoron lol at power ratting, sounds very dull. Now if CCP could make NPC get upset when you shoot them maybe it would be fun. Each to their own though... Power-ratting IS dull. But getting your sec from negative... whatever it is to roughly 0.0 in a day or two is nice for a myriad of reasons, least of which is the 'sneak attack' effect ("WTF a 5.0 carebear shot me!"). What's more dull is having cash to burn and being unable to go spend it on things you can actually retrieve =P ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:42:00 - [76] Originally by: JoeT Originally by: Dr Slice Who knows? We engage in all acts of Piracy. Gate Camps, Belt Piracy, Station Piracy (thats when you die outside of a station) and we even partake in Fleet Engagements every now and then. Where do you get your kills? where ever the target is at. mostly at stations now. kill them as they undock and before they can warp away or dock. hard on ransoms, but meh. so basically you mostly kill noobs? only a noob gets killed at a station. any player with a brain or experience just waits invulnerable for the undock timer and redocks DE
F Apparition Minmatar MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:49:00 - [77] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: JoeT Originally by: Dr Slice Who knows? We engage in all acts of Piracy. Gate Camps, Belt Piracy, Station Piracy (thats when you die outside of a station) and we even partake in Fleet Engagements every now and then. Where do you get your kills? where ever the target is at. mostly at stations now. kill them as they undock and before they can warp away or dock. hard on ransoms, but meh. so basically you mostly kill noobs? only a noob gets killed at a station. any player with a brain or experience just waits invulnerable for the undock timer and redocks DE On certain minmatar station(s?), that's not entirely true.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:53:00 - [78] I posted in this thread I now officially matter!
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:54:00 - [79] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I posted in this thread I now officially matter! No, you only matter by disagreeing with anything I say. Hate me dammit HATE ME
Portios Smith Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:54:00 - [80] You know, if it wasnt for Kay Brack, me thinks Saint Bubba would have boken the record for consecutive post by the same person.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.23 16:58:00 - [81] Originally by: tiller Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I posted in this thread I now officially matter! No, you only matter by disagreeing with anything I say. Hate me dammit HATE ME I plan on catching your pod eventually if that matters but I don't really hate any one in this game
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:03:00 - [82] You conveniently left my corp off your list. I'm at least -9.5 right now, can't remember exactly. And about 50% of my corp is -9 or lower.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:06:00 - [83] Edited by: DarkElf on 23/01/2007 17:02:33
Soumk	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:06:00 - [84] Edited by: Soumk on 23/01/2007 17:03:14 Originally by: tiller Have not said your not a rat unless -10, just pointing out the 'non-outlaw' experts on piracy in these forums, which is a oxymoron Examples of people that have positive security standings that also have experience in piracy. 1) Multiple accounts. Pirate with one, post with another. 2) Victims of pirates. Getting ganked by a pirate is a first class education on what they can or can't do. 3) Past pirates that have decided to do something different in the game and increased their security status.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:10:00 - [85] Originally by: Soumk Originally by: tiller Have not said your not a rat unless -10, just pointing out the 'non-outlaw' experts on piracy in these forums, which is a oxymoron Examples of people that have positive security standings that also have experience in piracy. 1) Multiple accounts. Pirate with one, post with another. 2) Victims of pirates. Getting ganked by a pirate is a first class education on that they can or can't do. 3) Past pirates that have decided to do something different in the game and increased their security status. i totally disagee. We are talking about the current state of piracy as i profession. Alts i agree with but ppl who have been pirated know jack **** about the quality of piracy as a profession and ppl who used to be pirates have no experience with it at this time so again don't really know. DE
tiller MAFIA Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:15:00 - [86] Edited by: tiller on 23/01/2007 17:12:44 Originally by: Soumk Examples of people that have positive security standings that also have experience in piracy. 1) Multiple accounts. Pirate with one, post with another. 2) Victims of pirates. Getting ganked by a pirate is a first class education on that they can or can't do. 3) Past pirates that have decided to do something different in the game and increased their security status. Maybe no.1. But not 'No2' and people in 'No3' have no place to comment on post Kali piracy imho. However, many here suffer from a tragic ailment called IES IES (or Instant Expert Syndrome) effects many in eve and shows itself on the forums quite alot. The whole point of this thread was to point out that there are many who I think should not be commenting on how the 'life of a pirate' is being effected by recent game mech changes. I can, from my narrow persective only comment on gate piracy... I can imagine some of the effects on others however.
Soumk	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:21:00 - [87] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Soumk Originally by: tiller Have not said your not a rat unless -10, just pointing out the 'non-outlaw' experts on piracy in these forums, which is a oxymoron Examples of people that have positive security standings that also have experience in piracy. 1) Multiple accounts. Pirate with one, post with another. 2) Victims of pirates. Getting ganked by a pirate is a first class education on that they can or can't do. 3) Past pirates that have decided to do something different in the game and increased their security status. i totally disagee. We are talking about the current state of piracy as i profession. Alts i agree with but ppl who have been pirated know jack **** about the quality of piracy as a profession and ppl who used to be pirates have no experience with it at this time so again don't really know. DE Hmmm... I'll have to agree that aome victims might know only a portion of how pirating works depending on how they were ganked. But others might know more so discounting all of them as a source of information would be wrong. And some pirates could have reclaimed their security status since the last patch and also make informative posts. The sample here might also be small but you still can't discount them. Those were good points.
Intigo Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:31:00 - [88] Are you bloody kidding me? Now, I realised tiller was a pretty daft and ignorant individual a while back, but never that he was really this stupid. Pathetic. GTFO, tiller. -- Piewat! Low SP piracy Now with more stories and small clips!
Soumk	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:37:00 - [89] Originally by: tiller Edited by: tiller on 23/01/2007 17:12:44 Originally by: Soumk Examples of people that have positive security standings that also have experience in piracy. 1) Multiple accounts. Pirate with one, post with another. 2) Victims of pirates. Getting ganked by a pirate is a first class education on that they can or can't do. 3) Past pirates that have decided to do something different in the game and increased their security status. Maybe no.1. But not 'No2' and people in 'No3' have no place to comment on post Kali piracy imho. However, many here suffer from a tragic ailment called IES IES (or Instant Expert Syndrome) effects many in eve and shows itself on the forums quite alot. The whole point of this thread was to point out that there are many who I think should not be commenting on how the 'life of a pirate' is being effected by recent game mech changes. I can, from my narrow persective only comment on gate piracy... I can imagine some of the effects on others however. The recent game patches have changed the way pirates work. That I will agree. I believe it's given them more options. I think posts complaining about how pirates have been nerfed are wrong. If you camped gates before you should be able to camp gates now. You just have to camp the reverse side. With the proper ship mix you can almost insta-lock anything and tank the sentries (for a short time) while doing it. Question. Do you have the skills to perform that kind of camp? If not it would explain your complaints. Training new skills to get back to were you where before a patch sucks. ECM and missles come to mind for me. Well, for my mains anyway.
DarkElf Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts	Posted - 2007.01.23 17:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Intigo Are you bloody kidding me? Now, I realised tiller was a pretty daft and ignorant individual a while back, but never that he was really this stupid. Pathetic. GTFO, tiller. Are you trying to get in his good books? DE

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